I'm down to two choices for a new rifle...help please.

[Narsus]

So, I apologize in advance for this long rambling post that’s full of questions (I’ve read tons of other posts on this to narrow things down).

I’ve been into shooting for a little less than a decade, and have entered a handful of matches in that time period. I really just enjoy going to the range and making small groups. I use factory ammunition (until I get a new house, then reloading), and have a blast taking notes in my shooting log, etc.

I’ve recently relocated from Virginia to Alabama. My old range went up to 1000 yards, my new range goes to 600 yards. I find shooting .308 and 6.5 CM at 600 yards fun, but not particularly challenging.

After asking questions on this board a couple months ago, I’ve decided that a bolt action rifle in .223 Rem is probably a good fit for me at this time. I’m trying to decide between 2 options, which are below:

OPTION 1 (prices are from a quick look online):

Product	Price
Tikka T3x Varmit .223	$898.00
KRG X-Ray Chassis	$449.00
Yo Dave Tikka Trigger Spring	$10.00
Sterk Shooting Tikka T3/T3x Swept Ball Handle	$109.00
MDT's Scope Base	$70.00
Barrel Threading	$100.00
Total	$1,636.00

The advantage of option 1 is; I’d get the base rifle and tinker with it over time, and cheaper.

OPTION 2:

Product	Price
Bighorn Origin	$850.00
Criterion or Bartlein Barrel	$500.00
KRG X-Ray or MDT XRS	$500.00
Triggertech Primary	$150.00
Total	$2,000.00

The Origin is pricier & takes longer, but will have the option to expand to different calibers on the same rig, and I like controlled feed.

My questions revolve around OPTION 2.

Action questions:
With the Origin, can I just swap the bolt face and get a new barrel to shoot something like a 6mm CM? And what else could I shoot with the .223 bolt face?

Barrel questions:
With the barrel, I think either manufacturer will be good. What profile should I consider? I was thinking about MTU or M24.
Barrel length for 600 yards (24” or 26”)? I occasionally will run it suppressed
Twist 1:7?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Batemanb12]

Tikka,
Put the extra 364 towards a scope.
My .02.

 

[_Windrider_]

Big horn.

 

[lennyo3034]

Neither.

.223 out of a bolt gun with handloads gives up very little to .308. If you find shooting at 600 to be not challenging with the .308, the .223 won't be much different.

Example: My .223 is similar to your option 2. With a 24" barrel I'm pushing an 80 grain ELDm at 2860fps. Run that number next to your .308 load.

 

[captainmorgan460]

I think overtime you'll be happier with the bighorn.

 

[Lightning8]

I recently bought a Tikka Varmint 223 “demo” from EuroOptic at a nice discount. They had another one last time I looked.

 

[BootyLord]

Have you considered or do you already own a 22lr?

 

[Gee Kay]

i'd say to go with the one that floats your boat considering you'll be the one using it.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I went the Tikka route for my 223 and I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[Ds91]

I just did a tikka build for a 308. I'm really happy with it so far.

 

[Narsus]

Have you considered or do you already own a 22lr?

I already own one, if I didn't that would be next.

 

[ubettcha]

Origin It will be what you want without the what if's(for awhile at least)

 

[PBWalsh]

Welcome to Sweet Home Alabama. Where are you located? Rockford Gun Club goes to 1,000 and is located in the southeastern part of the state. Carbon Hill (NW of Jefferson County) hosts monthlyish PRS style matches. I've never been to either, but I hope to change that soon.

 

[Narsus]

Welcome to Sweet Home Alabama. Where are you located? Rockford Gun Club goes to 1,000 and is located in the southeastern part of the state. Carbon Hill (NW of Jefferson County) hosts monthlyish PRS style matches. I've never been to either, but I hope to change that soon.

I'm up in Birmingham, and I shoot at the Talladega CMP, which is an excellent range.

 

[Narsus]

Does anyone have any thoughts on my OP questions at the bottom. I'm trying to make an informed choice before dropping the cash. Thanks.

 

[47guy]

So, I apologize in advance for this long rambling post that’s full of questions (I’ve read tons of other posts on this to narrow things down).

I’ve been into shooting for a little less than a decade, and have entered a handful of matches in that time period. I really just enjoy going to the range and making small groups. I use factory ammunition (until I get a new house, then reloading), and have a blast taking notes in my shooting log, etc.

I’ve recently relocated from Virginia to Alabama. My old range went up to 1000 yards, my new range goes to 600 yards. I find shooting .308 and 6.5 CM at 600 yards fun, but not particularly challenging.

After asking questions on this board a couple months ago, I’ve decided that a bolt action rifle in .223 Rem is probably a good fit for me at this time. I’m trying to decide between 2 options, which are below:

OPTION 1 (prices are from a quick look online):

Product	Price
Tikka T3x Varmit .223	$898.00
KRG X-Ray Chassis	$449.00
Yo Dave Tikka Trigger Spring	$10.00
Sterk Shooting Tikka T3/T3x Swept Ball Handle	$109.00
MDT's Scope Base	$70.00
Barrel Threading	$100.00
Total	$1,636.00

The advantage of option 1 is; I’d get the base rifle and tinker with it over time, and cheaper.

OPTION 2:

Product	Price
Bighorn Origin	$850.00
Criterion or Bartlein Barrel	$500.00
KRG X-Ray or MDT XRS	$500.00
Triggertech Primary	$150.00
Total	$2,000.00

The Origin is pricier & takes longer, but will have the option to expand to different calibers on the same rig, and I like controlled feed.

My questions revolve around OPTION 2.

Action questions:
With the Origin, can I just swap the bolt face and get a new barrel to shoot something like a 6mm CM? And what else could I shoot with the .223 bolt face?

Barrel questions:
With the barrel, I think either manufacturer will be good. What profile should I consider? I was thinking about MTU or M24.
Barrel length for 600 yards (24” or 26”)? I occasionally will run it suppressed
Twist 1:7?

Thanks for all the help.

go with the bighorn youll be happier in the end.

im pretty sure a bolt head and barrel swap and you can shoot 308 base cartridges.
most barrel makers are good now days.
i prefer heavy palma contour at 26".
check the bullets you plan to shoot most give twist rates.

 

[Bear9350]

It sounds to me like you will be better served by a custom action and barrel.

 

[NWnewguy]

Of the two options that you listed above I would go with the Bighorn. I also like your choice of 223. You'll save a ton on reloading or ammo cost and barrel life is great compared to anything other than 308.

But let me throw in the third option that is very similar. Take a look at the ARC Nucleus and then order a Criterion or Shilen pre-fit barrel from Northland. That will save you the difference between that and the Bighorn right there. You could also peruse the classifieds for a good trigger for a bit less than retail. The X-Ray, which is another great choice, can be had for $450 retail or you can scan the classifieds once again and save some cash there as well. I somehow ended up with 4 X-Rays in the last six months, and I didn't pay more than $350 for any of them.

You're definitely on the right track though.

 

[Narsus]

Of the two options that you listed above I would go with the Bighorn. I also like your choice of 223. You'll save a ton on reloading or ammo cost and barrel life is great compared to anything other than 308.

But let me throw in the third option that is very similar. Take a look at the ARC Nucleus and then order a Criterion or Shilen pre-fit barrel from Northland. That will save you the difference between that and the Bighorn right there. You could also peruse the classifieds for a good trigger for a bit less than retail. The X-Ray, which is another great choice, can be had for $450 retail or you can scan the classifieds once again and save some cash there as well. I somehow ended up with 4 X-Rays in the last six months, and I didn't pay more than $350 for any of them.

You're definitely on the right track though.

Thanks for the useful info, I'll have a look at the Nucleus today.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I can't even see where that's a choice. Bighorn

 

[Steel head]

I’d probably go bighorn

 

[JBoomhauer]

Bighorn. In addition to above responses, Rem 700 Footprint will leave more options for the chassis when it’s time to upgrade.

 

[NWnewguy]

I just sold a Bighorn. But that's why they make Ford and Chevy I guess.

The Nucleus wrinkles are ironed out and everyone I know that's running one likes it. The only issue I ever really heard about the firing pin spring was a little weak for some primers. I never had that problem personally, but they are shipping with 25lb springs now anyway and that totally fixed all outlier issues. I like the ones I have.

And for the record, it's not Bighorn. It's Zermätt.

 

[PAYDIRT]

It will always be Bighorn

 

[BulletScientist]

So, I apologize in advance for this long rambling post that’s full of questions (I’ve read tons of other posts on this to narrow things down).

I’ve been into shooting for a little less than a decade, and have entered a handful of matches in that time period. I really just enjoy going to the range and making small groups. I use factory ammunition (until I get a new house, then reloading), and have a blast taking notes in my shooting log, etc.

I’ve recently relocated from Virginia to Alabama. My old range went up to 1000 yards, my new range goes to 600 yards. I find shooting .308 and 6.5 CM at 600 yards fun, but not particularly challenging.

After asking questions on this board a couple months ago, I’ve decided that a bolt action rifle in .223 Rem is probably a good fit for me at this time. I’m trying to decide between 2 options, which are below:

OPTION 1 (prices are from a quick look online):

Product	Price
Tikka T3x Varmit .223	$898.00
KRG X-Ray Chassis	$449.00
Yo Dave Tikka Trigger Spring	$10.00
Sterk Shooting Tikka T3/T3x Swept Ball Handle	$109.00
MDT's Scope Base	$70.00
Barrel Threading	$100.00
Total	$1,636.00

The advantage of option 1 is; I’d get the base rifle and tinker with it over time, and cheaper.

OPTION 2:

Product	Price
Bighorn Origin	$850.00
Criterion or Bartlein Barrel	$500.00
KRG X-Ray or MDT XRS	$500.00
Triggertech Primary	$150.00
Total	$2,000.00

The Origin is pricier & takes longer, but will have the option to expand to different calibers on the same rig, and I like controlled feed.

My questions revolve around OPTION 2.

Action questions:
With the Origin, can I just swap the bolt face and get a new barrel to shoot something like a 6mm CM? And what else could I shoot with the .223 bolt face?

Barrel questions:
With the barrel, I think either manufacturer will be good. What profile should I consider? I was thinking about MTU or M24.
Barrel length for 600 yards (24” or 26”)? I occasionally will run it suppressed
Twist 1:7?

Thanks for all the help.

Regarding your barrel contour question, will you be competing in practical-style matches? If you are, you'll want the rig to balance on a bag, balance point ahead of the mag well. For that, the heavier the barrel the better. And the longer the better. Between your choices, that would be the 26" MTU.

 

[hereinaz]

Bighorn.

But, with a 600 yard limit, I personally would buy a good .22LR and shoot a lot. From 100 to 600 you can learn a lot...

 

[Buckley]

As for other .223 bolt face options, there are a few to consider but 300 blackout would probably be the easiest to find factory ammo for. Just do a search for the other options.

 

[flyer]

I don't think 600 yards is going to be a challenge for any good .223.

With that in mind, I would consider trying to get a mini-mauser action with a 16-18" barrel in a more sporter type profile.

Less MV will be a slight handicap and a barrel that you have to worry about heating up too much might feel like a challenge.

Going that route will also give you a decent packable hunting rifle instead of a poor match rifle...

 

[SonicBurlap]

Are you kidding me? Origin, any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[Eadle]

I went Origin with 26 inch MTU From Criterion.

 

[MarinePMI]

Well. I have both rifles you're talking about.

I have the Tikka Varmint in .223, put in an MPA chassis, Sterk AI bolt handle, threaded barrel and with a Timney two stage.

I also have a Bighorn Origin, in .224 Valkyrie, in a J Allen chassis, with a M-24 24" threaded LHGT barrel. While the Valk is not the same as a .223, it's close enough (in my mind) to offer some advice.

BLUF: Either will serve you well. Arguing the deltas between the two is pointless. It really comes down to feel, and what you prefer.

The Tikka runs slicker than snot. I mean, like on glass rails, slick. It's accurate, well built and well finished. It just flat out works, all the time, every time.

The Origin is a beast (in a good way). It's controlled feed, mechanical ejector action just has a beefier, robust feeling. With it being DLC'ed, rust is a foreign concept, and the bolt runs very smoothly (not as smooth as the Tikka, but still very smooth).

The Origin (being a 700 footprint) tends to have more options for triggers and chassis. The Tikka runs so well, there really isn't much to do to it, other than the Sterk handle (which changes the action dynamic radically, for the good).

The Origin has a lot of versatility for future spit balling with different cases. The Tikka, well, I wouldn't change a thing, even after the barrel wears out it'll just get another .223 barrel.

The Tikka is an elegant ballerina. The Origin is a stout workhorse that bows to no one.

Flip a coin and roll with what you end up. Either will leave you happy.

Best advice...buy both.

.224 Valkyrie in an Origin action, riding a Gen 1 JAE chassis with a Revic smart scope.

.223 Tikka Varmint, Sterk bolt handle, threaded muzzle, Leupold Mk 5 5-25x in Spuhr mount and in an MPA BA Comp.

 

[6brshooter]

Does anyone have any thoughts on my OP questions at the bottom. I'm trying to make an informed choice before dropping the cash. Thanks.

Go with an origin, easy choice. As to your questions, yes bolt head can be swapped out easily. 223, 308, 224valk bolt heads are 125, and prc/mag is 175. Bolts for tikkas are unavailable most of the time, plus there was a thread recently of a tikka breaking bolt handle off when it fell over on a bench.

On barrels, I've been happy with both barts and criterions. Threaded prefit from criterion is going to be 375. By the time you buy a bart blank(350), and have a smith spin it up(325), you'll be 675.00 deep in it. I'd run a 24" for 1000yds and in. I'm pretty happy with my 18-22" 6.5creeds inside 1k

As far as different calibers on a 223 bolt face: 204, 20 vartarg, 20 tactical, fireballs.

 

[Shootin25]

Origin.

I’m on my 4th barrel and 3rd caliber on my Origin. Just put on a Proof 223 Wylde Prefit that shoots just about anything well.
Picture of when it was a 22 Creed.

 

[Gee Kay]

I don't think 600 yards is going to be a challenge for any good .223.

Wind and a smaller sized target is quite a challenge ?

 

[ubettcha]

Does anyone have any thoughts on my OP questions at the bottom. I'm trying to make an informed choice before dropping the cash. Thanks.

A good friend of mine has won 5 lemon matches with a 7tw shooting 80smk's and 1 with an 8tw shooting 73 Bergers in an accurized Colt Hbar. The 7tw is a savage single shot. The course of fire is hitting lemons at 500yds. Longer barrels can be cut down if you feel the need to, 26" to start. I run heavier than MTU for my needs for better balance and recoil mitigation for the 308 and 6.5. I'd do the same for feel and familiarity with a 223/grendel boltface.
I like the ergo vertical grip so I'd lean towards the Xray.

 

[Tunnuh]

What projectile do you plan to use? Need that to really know twist rate.

 

[Narsus]

What projectile do you plan to use? Need that to really know twist rate.

Looking at match offerings that are at my local shops, anywhere from 69-77gr (Hornady and Federal). I'm easily a year out from a new house so just factory ammo for now.

 

[Tunnuh]

I'd say 1:8 then. Even if you decide to reload the 80 grn that should work

 

[flyer]

Wind and a smaller sized target is quite a challenge ?

He could do that with his .308.

 

[Narsus]

My range here is only electronic targets for rifles, all scores are put on a screen at your station. There is no going down and checking targets.

The pic below shows 200, 300, & 600 yard range. Center X circle is 1.35 inches across, 10 ring is 3.35 inches across (I believe).

 

[Kimber.204]

I've got no issue with Tikka's, but as others have mentioned above, I'd go with the Origin (or Nucleus).
Using a rem 700 patterned action you've got more chassis options.
Using a savage small thread barrel pattern you can get a wide variety of pre-fits (I love my cheap slightly used Savage take-off's as much as I like my Krieger's.

Regards,
Ross

 

[steve123]

OP, you can make up a reduced load and use lighter bullets in any cartridge, which will increase wind challenge. That is once you start reloading, and I recommend doing that ASAP.

High up on my list of fun guns is my little 20-221AI chambered in a CZ527. It's a blast shooting at far away steel that provides challenge as is but I worked up a reduced load for even more challenge. Less noise, less recoil, long brass and barrel life, using only 6.5 grains of powder, all of these sweeten the deal up!

 

[ratton]

I have an old Tikka 223 tactical similarity equipped as you described (KRG X-ray chassis with spigot mount, Sterk Bolt knob and canted pic rail). Shoot 75 or 77 grain bullits and put it in the X-ray. You will not regret it. It will be a tack driver for sure.

 

[Chickentoast]

Origin, if only for versatility down the line. The draw of the Tikka for me is value. The only reason to modify it is personal preference - the Varmint I had in 223 shot <1/4" @ 100 with 77 smk's, stock. It didn't like other projectiles as much, but that doesn't seem to be the case for everyone. I have a Savage Evo now, which shoots just as well, but with everything from 50 Vmax through 75 ELD-M's.

 

[Narsus]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I found it very informative.

I'm going with the Origin, with Criterion barrel (still thinking about twist rate).

 

[secm]

Tikka,
Put the extra 364 towards a scope.
My .02.

Absolutley!

 

[King_beardsly]

I say go with the origin, the ability to swap bolt faces is very hand and now that they ironed out the little overcocking/timing issue they are absolutely a great buy. Btw the KRG bravo build was well under 2k and is an absolute hammer, the MPA is also a hammer but a fair bit more.

 

[Doc68]

RPR in 6 creedmoor. Just be done with it. 95gr STMK. Sierra tipped match Kings. 7.3 mil to 1k yards. Can't beat it.

 

[King_beardsly]

Or do 105 Hybrids, just a bit less drop at 1k. I do push them pretty hard, but they seem to enjoy the ride.

 

[Long Range 338]

Bighorn unless your budget doesn't allow it. Its a more versatile platform and the combinations are endless. Actually I wish you hadn't made this thread, its gonna cost me some money.