im fed up with my .338

[7.62_Reaper]

i'm just about ready to sell my .338 LM, i can't get a 1/2" MOA group to save my life, and the very hard part is to admit is that it isn't the rifle it very well might be me.

i have tried to tweak the loads. i started with 88-93gr's Retumbo, 300gr laupa Scenar, CCI mag primers, and lapua brass. than switched to H1000, than switched bullets to Berger OTM Hybrids. none of which got me anywhere near 1/2" MOA consistently.

it just feels like I'm just waisting bullets and money. I'm going to try 300gr SMK next but I'm not to optimistic.

specs on the rifle:
rifle was built by David Viers (Viersco)
stiller tac .338 action
28" benchmark barrel 1:9.5" twist, round count is 225
jewel trigger
manners T5A stock
nightforce NXS 5.5x22 MOAR

i have taken the rifle and check every possible nut and bolt you can think of for proper installation and torque from the scope to the receiver and everything in between to rule out the rifle and it all checked out.

i really hate the idea that i just can't shoot this thing cause i shoot just fine with all my other toys but it seems like i can't shoot this thing worth a damn.

any ideas that you might be able to come up with cause my good idea fairy is not working

 

[crumpett]

At what distance are you shooting for group?

I have experience with one particular rifle that wouldn't group worth a damn @ 100yds but did well at 300 and beyond.

 

[P7M13SC]

Hang in there. When I get to this point I first give the rifle to someone that has more knowledge-skill than me. Let them fire it and see what results they come up with. What range are you shooting? I have found that the cone of dispersion is not linear to the distance. If it shoots 1 moa at a hundred it might shoot sub moa at say 500. Some one once wrote a 300gr bullet is like a hyperactive child. Sometimes it takes a while for them to settle down (stabilize). Have you ever seen Sinclair's f class bipod? It's like cheating. If I want to shrink my groups to 1/2 moa, out comes the Sinclair bipod. I'm sure people smarter than me will give their insight. I hope we can help.

 

[timelinex]

Try the 285 Hornady bullet. My ax wouldn't group bergers and I was going crazy till I tried new bullets. It's possible your rifle just doesn't like what you have fed it so far.

Also, as far as form goes, just make sure to have a really solid hold and follow through. If you can shoot half moa in your other rifles consistently, I don't see why this one would be different.

 

[zenbiker]

i'm just about ready to sell my .338 LM, i can't get a 1/2" MOA group to save my life, and the very hard part is to admit is that it isn't the rifle it very well might be me.

i have tried to tweak the loads. i started with 88-93gr's Retumbo, 300gr laupa Scenar, CCI mag primers, and lapua brass. than switched to H1000, than switched bullets to Berger OTM Hybrids. none of which got me anywhere near 1/2" MOA consistently.

it just feels like I'm just waisting bullets and money. I'm going to try 300gr SMK next but I'm not to optimistic.

specs on the rifle:
rifle was built by David Viers (Viersco)
stiller tac .338 action
28" benchmark barrel 1:9.5" twist, round count is 225
jewel trigger
manners T5A stock
nightforce NXS 5.5x22 MOAR

i have taken the rifle and check every possible nut and bolt you can think of for proper installation and torque from the scope to the receiver and everything in between to rule out the rifle and it all checked out.

i really hate the idea that i just can't shoot this thing cause i shoot just fine with all my other toys but it seems like i can't shoot this thing worth a damn.

any ideas that you might be able to come up with cause my good idea fairy is not working

I think there's a good chance your barrel is the culprit. Feed a tight, well lubed patch through a bore guide. Very slowly but smoothly advance the patch. I want you to see if the patch becomes easier to push through closer to the muzzle or loses most, if not all resistance as the patch approaches the muzzle. If it does, your barrel is part, if not all the problem. As the bore diameter inreases, even a few ten thou, the bullet starts to"rattle" down the looser portions and will leave the barrel with a subtly different line of flight. That's what made BlackStar barrels so good - the electropolishing process could be controlled to tighten the bore towards the muzzle, ensuring minimal line of flight deviation shot to shot. If the barrel is button rifled, stresses are induced into the barrel; the installation of a muzzle brake or other muzzle device requiring significant removal of steel at the muzzle can release those stresses and cause the bore to enlarge or even become ovoid. Find a gunsmith with a good air gauge or similar bore dimension analysis machine and have yours checked. Good luck.


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[7.62_Reaper]

At what distance are you shooting for group?

I have experience with one particular rifle that wouldn't group worth a damn @ 100yds but did well at 300 and beyond.

365 yards

 

[SPAK]

Just curious, muzzle brake/suppressor/no muzzle device?
screws all tight? Parrallax?

does it shoot factory ammo well?

vertical dispersion? Horizontal? Both?

I agree with having someone else shoot it as well...try to rule out the variables..

 

[Jong]

Have someone else shoot it. You could also have just got unlucky and got a bad barrel. Happened to me, my shooting was just getting worse and worse. First I thought it was the scope and had it sent back to the factory and they fixed it but didn't fix my shooting. Tried everything and then had a buddy shoot it and I was getting 2-3 in groups at a 100. Finally sent the rifle back to the manufacturer and he said the barrel was bad but had no idea why. They just replaced the barrel.

 

[Tactical]

Brother
300 grain Scenar
N570 powder
Fed 215 match

that combo shoots tiny little groups in all my 338's

i'm just about ready to sell my .338 LM, i can't get a 1/2" MOA group to save my life, and the very hard part is to admit is that it isn't the rifle it very well might be me.

i have tried to tweak the loads. i started with 88-93gr's Retumbo, 300gr laupa Scenar, CCI mag primers, and lapua brass. than switched to H1000, than switched bullets to Berger OTM Hybrids. none of which got me anywhere near 1/2" MOA consistently.

it just feels like I'm just waisting bullets and money. I'm going to try 300gr SMK next but I'm not to optimistic.

specs on the rifle:
rifle was built by David Viers (Viersco)
stiller tac .338 action
28" benchmark barrel 1:9.5" twist, round count is 225
jewel trigger
manners T5A stock
nightforce NXS 5.5x22 MOAR

i have taken the rifle and check every possible nut and bolt you can think of for proper installation and torque from the scope to the receiver and everything in between to rule out the rifle and it all checked out.

i really hate the idea that i just can't shoot this thing cause i shoot just fine with all my other toys but it seems like i can't shoot this thing worth a damn.

any ideas that you might be able to come up with cause my good idea fairy is not working

 

[orkan]

Nothing on earth or in heaven would make my rifle shoot 300scenars well. Switched to 300SMK's and it got better... but I believe the 300's to be too heavy for a LM anyway... so I switched to the Hornady 285's when they came out... and I've been happy ever since. 2875FPS and 1/4moa.

 

[Theunforgiven]

As stated above. I have also seen some sako trg's and custom rifles in 338lm not able to shoot good groups at 100.
Something about the bullet not going to sleep before 200..
So you should have tried it on 300 and 400 yards. A 338lm is somehow a little waist of ammo for 100 yd work.

Have you tried changing the COL on your reloads ?. It can have a huge effect.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Reaper

You may want to give Dave a call, it's possible that he could give some additional advice on something that has been over looked.

My Barrett 338LM prefers the 300 Scenars running at 50 thousands off the lands - I have around 2480 rounds through the rifle using H1000 and the 300 gr. Scenars ran somewhat hard with very good accuracy.


Shown - running the 1000 meter maneuver at Ft McCoy



Cheers

 

[diverdon]

Brother
300 grain Scenar
N570 powder
Fed 215 match

that combo shoots tiny little groups in all my 338's

Do you know where one might get some of those Fed 215 match primers. I have been looking for 18 months and I might as well have been looking for unicorns.

 

[Tactical]

I got my Fed 215s from a gunshop going out of business about eight months ago. I walked in and saw them and bought the five thousand they had and where blowing out.

On the 300 Scenars with N570 I shoot them in my TRG 42 and Savage 338s with great success. My Savage came with target shot with Hornady 285 factory load and that group looks like an F TR Rifle shot it so certainly woth a try.

Do you know where one might get some of those Fed 215 match primers. I have been looking for 18 months and I might as well have been looking for unicorns.

 

[VaRandy]

What would I do.? Most important thing...take the shooter out of it..go proper rests or bags front and back. Minimize your hold and cheek press but duplicate each shot.
Make sure you only change one thing at a time.
Verify that someone else with the same caliber, barrel length, and twist has a shooter and copy the powder load and bullet.
Check scope mounts closely.
Find out where there bullet is per the lands and duplicate it and then load -10 and plus 10 if possible. Go shoot all three. This may well be the biggest problem.
If one clearly show a preference, chase it by 5 and settle on a length.
Still in trouble? Barrel or scope. Borrow a good scope and try out at 100yds.

Good luck. Slow down and take good notes or you will lose track of what you have or haven't tried.

 

[7.62_Reaper]

ok i'll try shooting with a nice gun rest also i'll 300SMK and Hornady 285gr and i'll se how that works.

 

[agbm]

Call dave and have him check it out for you!!!!!

 

[7.62_Reaper]

Call dave and have him check it out for you!!!!!

I emailed dave and he is helping me out but i don't want to send him the rifle cause I'm pretty sure the rifle is not the problem. one thing that he told me is that some times Lapua Scenar don't shoot well and with bergers OTM's they are way to far off the lands if you want them to fit in your mag. and of course those are the only two bullets that i have tried, not saying that using sierra's will magically make everything work though but hey its worth a shot.

im also getting the load that he used to test the rifle with dave said it shot well with it. also i'll be getting a good bench rest so i can take myself out of the equation as much as possible.

 

[J.J. Kelly]

Walk into any gun-shop or Gander Mountain everybody's rifle shooting less than a 1/4" 5-shot groups and
some hit golf ball now at 2000 yds. In the real world, not long ago, a 3-shot group at 100 yds under 1"
was good and 1000 yds is really far. Major John Plaster has said if he does practice for a while he can only
get 1 moa, maybe. It takes a lot of work to do better; gun, mount, scope, ammo, reloads and the shooter.
Technology has allowed some of us to take "great" shooting for granted; talk to an old guy that really used
guns his entire life, get the real story from people out there, not story tellers.

 

[Tactical]

Well one thing for certain is the 338s tend to be finicky.

If you are going to try 300SMKs. I had good luck with them with RL22 powder and Remington 9 1/2 magnum primers in Lapua brass. It was my go to 338 load before the Scenars where easily available.

 

[ahhshoot]

You're not cleaning the Benchmark, are you? Most guns I've seen or heard of with Benchmarks prefer the barrel to be fouled up a good bit before they start to shoot. Go 150 rounds or so without cleaning and you might see some improvement. My shooting buddy is up to almost 300 rounds without cleaning. At first his groups were over an inch and now it's getting down to .5 (that's real numbers btw, 6 groups of 5 at 100, not cherry pickin').

 

[nnn66]

It took me quite some time to work the bugs out of my 338LM when I first got it. I have only used 300gr Scenars, but tried N560, Magpro and Retumbo. At first, I was getting some real ugly results and was very discouraged with the rifle. However, after much load testing, having my action properly bedded, and experimenting with seating depth, I am now very pleased with the way my rifle shoots. First time to the range, I was shooting about 2MOA at 100. After putting a lot of effort into load development, I can regularly do .5MOA or better at 100 and have shot a 4 inch group at 1000 not long ago. Most recently, it shot about a 6 inch group at 1375. I've settled on 89.7gr Retumbo with the 300gr Scenars, Lapua brass and 215m primers. I was quite unhappy with the rifle when I first got it, but now I'm very confident in it. You could have a problem with your gun or perhaps it is you, but I wouldn't give up on it just yet. As others have suggested, change some variables and keep working with it and you'll likely find the magic combination.

 

[88blazer]

Like many others have said here, the 338 is finicky. I built my 338 RUM on a Savage 110 shilen select 4 groove ratchet. Went through 600rds, til I got a hold of h1000. 82gr behind a 300 OTM and 215M and she plugs a 3/4" hole at 200. Prior load was 1.25" with 869.

I'd keep trying, don't give up yet. Once you find your load, she'll be a blast to shoot. Might call and ask if the barrel was lapped and the bolt was lapped as well. If not, that would help.

 

[VaRandy]

From your answer, I wasted my time with a detailed method to determine the problem. 1 thing at a time. If someone is firing a certain bullet in your caliber, with your twist barrel and your powder load and getting results, you find out why YOURS doesn't which means checking out everything ELSE before considering a major change Random changes will make hitting a solution nearly impossible or at best find it as your barrel goes away.

This is the scientific part of shooting, art is making your weapon attractive.

 

[Deathknell]

I found the 338's out of my Sako TRG were a bit picky about the overall length. I finally found 30 thousanth's off the lands worked best for my rifle. I am using 92 grains of Retumbo and the 300 grain Lapuas. I have found the round/rifle to shoot unbelieveable well after figuring this out. I shoot it from 100 to 1000 yards with some really good success. I was very lucky in that the owner of our range is a Sako TRG fanatic and was very helpful. Good luck!

 

[07yzryder]

whats your COAL and your jump? Mine was doing extremely badly because i was too short. I ended up going buying a meplat trimmer to make sure the tips are all square and seating to under .01 from mag length giving me a jump of .04 to the lands and that tightented it up to a 3/4 inch group. If i load at .015 of the lands i can get 1/2 inch groups but ill sacrifice the accuracy for mag loading.

 

[Tango down]

Sometimes it does take a while but it could be the nature of the beast. I found a great load rather fast for my two .308; the .338LM took much longer. I had a bunch of good (1/2 moa, 1/4 moa, sometimes better) 5 shots groups at 100 yards, different powders, different bullets, seating depths...It was further out that it didn't look so good, let's say from 1000 to a mile. Finally got somewhere recently with good consistent results at 1000 yards; now let's see how it will look at 1500.

Good luck to you.

 

[agbm]

You could send the rifle to dallas reloads and let them perform the Load Development in your firearm
Custom Reloads of Dallas

 

[Tristian19]

Painful Memories with my first .338 Lapua...

Reaper,

All the thoughts above from everyone are on point.

As for my two cents, You are bringing back painful memories as I went through similar when I purchased my Savage .338 Lapua. For months I struggled.

I myself was under .5 MOA with my factory .223 Remington and .308 CZ 750 and could not understand why I was not with .338 Lapua..

Without boring you with a long winded book as I can right a book with all the mistakes I made and issues I had.

My biggest issues turned out to be
1. flinching with anticipation of recoil,
2. constantly making changes and
3. too many gadgets on rig (I wound up removing rear monopod and bipod) and instead shot off sandbag and used a solid rear rest.

*** After above groups dropped under .5 MOA.

1. I would definitely send back to Gun Maker for test firing and analysis
2. Have someone you know who can shoot large magnums very well shoot her with known good factory ammo for your setup
and go from there. If they can shoot her well then you know YOU are issue.

Keep your head positive and DON'T MAKE MORE THAN ONE CHANGE AT A TIME!!! <<< I did this constantly and once I stopped life got better.

T

I personally keep a log book of my rigs now. I make notes on everything I do so I can go back and revisit if and when needed.

Noting everything from rounds shot each day, weather conditions, to cleaning, to ANY adjustments, zero changes, when I tighten any screws, position I shot, EVERYTHING.

 

[7.62_Reaper]

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! I finally got this thing up and running and it was the most stupidest thing you could ever think of, so stupid in fact i would be embarrass to even tell anyone about it…………but i'll tell you anyway cause you may get a good laugh at my expense….so of course the rifle wasn't the problem and i went and picked up a new rest for the rifle to take the shooter out of the equation as much as possible and that didn't help so it had to be something that i was doing wrong in the reloading part of it so going back looking through the my notes on the different loads i have tried i looked at the seating depth. i was seating the bullet from the ogive at 2.9565……my COL to where the ogive just touches the lands is 2.9665…..that is a full One Hundredth of an inch off the lands, for some reason i couldn't remember what i learned back in forth grade math class cause i thought that the number that is 2nd from the right of the decimal point is thousands. so long story short i was seating it way to far off the lands. i made a load seating the bullet with a COL of 2.9640 (-.0025 off the lands) and now have an average group at 365 yards of 1.49"……finally below 1/2" MOA

thank you all that helped i really appreciate it

josh

 

[07yzryder]

Nice glad to hear! sometimes its best to slow down and hit the data with fresh eyes. Also i was in the who the hell is goign to use algebra and geometery in real life (still studied it but couldnt find a practical application) until shooting ahha now im like glad i listened!

 

[Tango down]

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! I finally got this thing up and running and it was the most stupidest thing you could ever think of, so stupid in fact i would be embarrass to even tell anyone about it…………but i'll tell you anyway cause you may get a good laugh at my expense….so of course the rifle wasn't the problem and i went and picked up a new rest for the rifle to take the shooter out of the equation as much as possible and that didn't help so it had to be something that i was doing wrong in the reloading part of it so going back looking through the my notes on the different loads i have tried i looked at the seating depth. i was seating the bullet from the ogive at 2.9565……my COL to where the ogive just touches the lands is 2.9665…..that is a full One Hundredth of an inch off the lands, for some reason i couldn't remember what i learned back in forth grade math class cause i thought that the number that is 2nd from the right of the decimal point is thousands. so long story short i was seating it way to far off the lands. i made a load seating the bullet with a COL of 2.9640 (-.0025 off the lands) and now have an average group at 365 yards of 1.49"……finally below 1/2" MOA

thank you all that helped i really appreciate it

josh

Josh

Congrats, we all make mistakes, you won't make this one again! Now the fun stuff starts, en route for 1000 and up, to see how they behave further out. Going through this process now, still running tests on load at a mile; went for it yesterday but winds were kicking good. It looks like it is on but another session is in order, without wind this time, just to make sure the load actually shoots well.
Have fun and good shooting.

 

[hessian]

You got a 338 LM to shoot groups?!Try a clay bird at 1000.

 

[Tango down]

You got a 338 LM to shoot groups?!Try a clay bird at 1000.

Done that

 

[7.62_Reaper]

Sure I'll give it a shot once I find a range that's a thousand yards near Connecticut

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