I just picked up this action and put a Bix trigger on it. When I close the bolt slow there’s a hitch at about 1/3 of the way down. Is this normal? Do I need the other trigger hanger? Thanks for the help!
Impact action bolt hitch on close
- Thread starter mercracing
- Start date
Sorry to bring up an old thread but did anyone who has this actually solve this or is this how an Impact 737 is?
In my case, with both a Timney and TriggerTech, same issue as the OP described.
I get an initial resistance, then the bolt basically falls with a clunk/snap of the firing pin in the bolt (you can see the silver pin indicator move), then another level of resistance and then the firing pin actually cocks. Impact (Tate) said they'll send me a -15 and +15 trigger hanger but that it won't change much and it's not a functional problem. To me it is, though -- I've operated Impact actions before and got a video of another member's in action and never experienced this clunky hitch during bolt close. Really confused here... trying to figure out if I'm going to be living with this or not.
Here's mine in action:
In my case, with both a Timney and TriggerTech, same issue as the OP described.
I get an initial resistance, then the bolt basically falls with a clunk/snap of the firing pin in the bolt (you can see the silver pin indicator move), then another level of resistance and then the firing pin actually cocks. Impact (Tate) said they'll send me a -15 and +15 trigger hanger but that it won't change much and it's not a functional problem. To me it is, though -- I've operated Impact actions before and got a video of another member's in action and never experienced this clunky hitch during bolt close. Really confused here... trying to figure out if I'm going to be living with this or not.
Here's mine in action:
That’s every impact I’ve ever seen. It’s why I don’t like em myself.
Works as designed. Wade told me Impact has some cock on close in the design and this is normal, and didn’t offer to send me spare trigger hangers. I did eventually buy the hangers but haven’t fooled with them and I likely won’t be sending off my barreled action to get the trigger and bolt timed to each other.
Yep, exactly how my Impact and TT Diamond operate (standard 0 hanger).
There is one thing that's kind of nice about it when you speed up the operation to normal bolt running speeds. Having the resistance up in the first 1/3 of the bolt close makes the rest of the bolt close feel very effortless, almost like it's snapping fully closed. I feel like I'm less likely to leave the bolt handle just shy of completely closed resulting in a light primer strike. I've done that before with other actions where you have to be more intentional about pressing the bolt handle to the fully closed position.
There is one thing that's kind of nice about it when you speed up the operation to normal bolt running speeds. Having the resistance up in the first 1/3 of the bolt close makes the rest of the bolt close feel very effortless, almost like it's snapping fully closed. I feel like I'm less likely to leave the bolt handle just shy of completely closed resulting in a light primer strike. I've done that before with other actions where you have to be more intentional about pressing the bolt handle to the fully closed position.
This is reason I prefer lone peak. Almost no cock on close.
That being said, impact is awesome and have some of those too.
That being said, impact is awesome and have some of those too.
The Lone Peak is effortless closing, it almost snaps shut on its own.
I wouldn't get along with the Impact's hitch. Just a personal preference thing.
@mercracing, perhaps you should sell your Impact and get an LP
I have both actions and prefer my LP, but the Impact is not at all bad I feel like I just have to operate the bolt at a faster pace and don’t really notice the hitch that way. I would shoot it and let it break in to see if you are going to like it or not. Just my opinion
Some, like myself, don't like operating the bolt fast. I would much rather run the bolt "slow and smooth", then have to run a bolt like a coked out gorilla (thanks @BLKWLFK9 for the awesome phrase
).But that's a "to each their own" sorta thing.
I have two levels of resistance. When you first move it down and then about 1/3 down the travel... after that, then it falls into battery. It was a surprise to me because if you operate my action without the trigger installed (I got the action before I got the trigger), it is smooth and has resistance just at the top and it slides right on down into battery predictably, no second level of resistance. I expected it'd be the same with the Timney trigger installed... nope. I bought a TriggerTech trigger (intended for another rifle I'm building on a Kelbly's action) and tried that and there was no difference. To be blunt, I wouldn't have bought the Impact if I had known it operated like this... but I'll have to get used to it and hope that as it "breaks in" this smooths out to the point where I come to either get used to it or appreciate it. I wanted the Impact because of it's reputation for working even in tough conditions and the proliferation of pre-fit barrels available on all corners of earth, so I will lean on that for now.
I have two and they both do it, but it doesn't bother me so much. I do choose to run my bolts relatively quickly, like a coked out gorilla, so I don't really notice.
It's always going to have a bit of a hitch, though that hitch may lessen a bit as it wears in.
There's also plenty of actions that don't have a hitch. If it bothers you, sell it and move on. I have a few different actions, all of them are smooth as butter and seamless with no hitches.
I'm sure I'll get used to it... damn rifle better be accurate, haha.
Unfortunately, there's not a "rifle action store" I can go try 'em all out at. Wouldn't that be nice?
Unfortunately, there's not a "rifle action store" I can go try 'em all out at. Wouldn't that be nice?
That's what is nice about matches if you have any close. Even if you don't shoot most guys are more than willing to let you get hands on their setup.
The hitch is something I've only ever noticed when dry firing. Behind the gun with live ammo even running it slow I don't notice anything different from it and my other setups on other actions.
truth. I've had quite a few different actions, and the impacts are by far my favorites. The "hitch" isn't an issue at all to me under actual firing conditions.
I have long had an issue with threads such as this. No particular problem with this thread but I have been meaning to raise my issue for some time and now seems like as good a time as any.
My issue is I don't much care how an action feels without a trigger installed or without a round feeding into the chamber.
I own multiple custom actions and my experience ranges from "works every time" with Impact's long and short actions to binds badly in dusty conditions which is a Defiance Rebel. I have been told Defiance can build your action with more clearance but can't do anything with an existing action.
Beyond that, there are some differences in the feel of the various actions which I guess don't much matter because while I can feel the differences I don't really have a preference. Feeding differences from the magazine or box far outweigh the action itself.
So I would like to hear more about experiences with the various actions used for their intended purpose, moving a round into the chamber.
My issue is I don't much care how an action feels without a trigger installed or without a round feeding into the chamber.
I own multiple custom actions and my experience ranges from "works every time" with Impact's long and short actions to binds badly in dusty conditions which is a Defiance Rebel. I have been told Defiance can build your action with more clearance but can't do anything with an existing action.
Beyond that, there are some differences in the feel of the various actions which I guess don't much matter because while I can feel the differences I don't really have a preference. Feeding differences from the magazine or box far outweigh the action itself.
So I would like to hear more about experiences with the various actions used for their intended purpose, moving a round into the chamber.
Let that heavy steel bolt/knob do its work!
As said above, running the bolt in a match, you don't even notice the hitch.
As said above, running the bolt in a match, you don't even notice the hitch.
you won't care or notice. I don't really even notice when I dryfire.
Well… thanks guys. Appreciate the info here.
Thing is, when I spend a lot of money I get nervous about stuff for no reason. Grew up without money, made my way up, but still have a hard time spending and when I do I get all amped up and hyper critical. My bad…
Thing is, when I spend a lot of money I get nervous about stuff for no reason. Grew up without money, made my way up, but still have a hard time spending and when I do I get all amped up and hyper critical. My bad…
I totally get that, and you should be that way. This stuff is expensive.
This right here. Dry firing and running it slow it's noticeable, but I was never mid stage and thought, wow. This cock on close shit sucks. My impact was my first custom. I really liked it and it ate 6BR like a natural. Would buy another forsure if the need arose.
Running an action at speed who even notices this? Its not a clit, its a bolt action.
It’s been a bit since I started this thread. Since then I’ve gotten another Impact, and a few other actions. Do the others have the “hitch” on close? No. Would I buy another Impact before some of these others? Yes. Like it’s been pointed out, and I found out there’s a difference between dry firing and real world. I’ve never noticed the “hitch” when shooting. I also think it wears there more you shoot it so it’s less noticeable, or it’s just in my head and I’m used to it.The Lone Peak is effortless closing, it almost snaps shut on its own.
I wouldn't get along with the Impact's hitch. Just a personal preference thing.
@mercracing, perhaps you should sell your Impact and get an LP
@kthomas I don’t think I’ve tried a LP action yet. To be honest, I’m pretty pleased with my Impacts and in theory I’m trying to consolidate actions, calibers, etc. so I don’t know if a LP is in the cards for me. Maybe if I can get a cert for some off of one.
Very true. I have Impact, Lone Peak and TL3 actions and while I could pick apart subtle differences in how they feel when dry firing slowly, at a match that's the last thing on my mind.
Why are more or less most aftermarket knobs aluminum? I want a steel knob somewhat like the Impact piston-style knob, but with knurling.
I suspect because it can feel odd when paired with lighter bolts.
I tried the round steel Impact knob on my V22 and it was a no-go, unbalanced like a loose cannon, then I spun it onto my Rem700 and it felt okay, but unnecessarily heavy on close.
Went back to aluminum for them, the way they should be.
There's something about the brutish speed of running the heavy Impact fast--it just plows through the feed cycle and still feels balanced, like the whole bolt is proportionately weighted.
What action are you thinking about?
Update: I installed a +15 trigger hanger and while the "hitch" is still there, the entire bolt operation is slightly more fluid up and down. The hitch is lessened enough that it no longer bothers me. It's not some HUGE change, but it's enough to stop, well... annoying me. -15 made it worse.
Trigger: TriggerTech Special 2-Stage
I haven't tried my Timney HIT but I like the TriggerTech better for this rifle so not going to bother for now.
Trigger: TriggerTech Special 2-Stage
I haven't tried my Timney HIT but I like the TriggerTech better for this rifle so not going to bother for now.
Interesting. I have the exact same observation with the exact same trigger. Only got one hanger with this one, the last I got two. Maybe I need to get with Impact for the +15. Is it thousandths off the top/bottom of the hanger? I can make some shims at work to make that happen...
No, a - hanger moves the trigger forward. A + one moves it to the rear.
As you begin to lower the bolt, the closing ramps that are cut into the raceway pull the bolt forward into battery. They are there to assist in getting a cartridge the last .030" into the chamber, past any dirt or defects in the case. Primary extraction does the opposite in helping to remove the case for reference.
What HousePlant is feeling is the point where the cocking piece of the firing pin makes contact with the sear of the trigger while the bolt is still being pulled forward. This causes the firing pin spring to be further compressed and is called cock on close. My Defiance works the exact same way. You can design it to be 100% cock on open with a stiffer bolt lift or you can soften the firing pin spring or reduce it's overall travel at the risk of misfires with harder primers. But at some point in the cycle, that firing pin needs to be cocked and there is no free lunch. Personally, I'll take reliability over a glassy smooth (hitch free) bolt close.
I think what happened by moving the trigger rearward is that he moved the start of cock on close closer to the point where the firing pin is coming out of it's detent so it feels more like one motion rather than having that point of free fall in-between.
Also, as others have said, you're cycling an empty action. Without a trigger in it, the bolt will literally snap closed as the cocked firing pin spring pushes the cocking piece back down the cocking ramp without a trigger to catch it.
Let the wind blow some dirt in the action, load up a magazine, and start a timer. You will never notice it again.
I'm cycling 6mm Creedmor snap caps and I have cycled live ammunition. I haven't been able to get to the range with this rifle because I'm stilling waiting for my scope but I do notice the hitch less with a round or even a fired empty piece of 6mm Creedmor brass, yes. I will get used to what remains after the +15 hanger. If there's some kind of malfunction because of the +15, I'll put the 0 back in and move on with my life.
All in all, I didn't expect this hitch on close. Every custom action I've touch has been "hitchless" or it wasn't so overt with the pin snap. The one I remember liking the most was Kelbly's Atlas, but I wanted to do the Impact for the prefits everywhere. I am used to Bergara Premier actions (the rifles I use the most) which is always smooth, light to lift, light to drop, and never any hitch. I guess I thought any custom action would be the same unaware of design differences. I'm sure there's design intent in the Impact action. I don't know enough about actions - clearly - to know the what and why. Just wasn't expecting this, is all, feared I had something wrong... turns out I don't and this is how the Impact is. +15 adjusted it enough to live with.
All in all, I didn't expect this hitch on close. Every custom action I've touch has been "hitchless" or it wasn't so overt with the pin snap. The one I remember liking the most was Kelbly's Atlas, but I wanted to do the Impact for the prefits everywhere. I am used to Bergara Premier actions (the rifles I use the most) which is always smooth, light to lift, light to drop, and never any hitch. I guess I thought any custom action would be the same unaware of design differences. I'm sure there's design intent in the Impact action. I don't know enough about actions - clearly - to know the what and why. Just wasn't expecting this, is all, feared I had something wrong... turns out I don't and this is how the Impact is. +15 adjusted it enough to live with.
Thanks. Relatively new to the finer points of all of this.
To be clear, I don't have any issue with it, as it functions 100%, and like others have said, don't notice it at the range at all. Even shooting slowly, trying to feel every thing that makes the action what it is, I never noticed it while spending what attention resources I had on the target. I just want to be sure that what I feel going forward is what it should feel like. If changing a trigger hanger could make it smoother, then making awesome better would be a good thing, right?
It doesn't change it enough to bother if you're already used to it... to be honest. It's minimal amount of change... enough to be perceived but not enough to go running around hunting for a hanger for while generating expectations it's going to be a wildly different experience. It's just... a smidge better -- enough that I'm fine with it. To be clear, I'm probably not going to buy another Impact 737, but I will happily use the one I have.
Its already been said multiple times, you will never notice it when shooting. Its a non issue and not worth wasting electrons over.
Go shoot.
Go shoot.
