Impacts on the target support, hit or miss?

[flyfisher117]

Is a hit on the support stand of the target a hit or miss? If its too close to tell do you just give the shooter the points?

Scenario: NRL22. 100 ish yards. 2 small round plates hung on a T post. T post has pieces of angle iron on it to protect the post itself. Angle iron is still nice and white but the targets are shot up and gray. I believe the t post was loose in the ground because it would rock left and right with impact.

I'm spotting using someone else's spotting scope which has a min zoom of 20x. When there is a good hit on the plate the plate dances and swings.

Shooter is shooting and 3-4 of the 10 shots I see what looks like an impact on the post because the white paint is coming off the post. And the post is moving left and right but the target itself isn't moving hardly at all. Definitely no where near the movement when they had solid hits on the plate. I had seen a few solid hits on the bottom edge of the plate.

After the shooter asked why I didn't call the hits. I explained I was seeing impacts on the post but if the squad was OK I had no issues giving them the hits. Shooter got mad and started questioning how you can hit a t post and have the target move too.

I'm new to all of this (my squad was aware). This was my 6th match? This wasn't for points or anything, just a little club level shoot. I wasn't trying to screw someone over or be a dick just what I was seeing. Should I have just called hits to begin with?

 

[A&8's]

A impact to the support stand is not an impact.

As a match director and competitor, when I am calling/spotting, I call "Impact" if a hit to the actual target and "Post" if the bullet impacts the post. That way, the shooter is aware that I seen it and called it accordingly.

In the scenario of the OP, I would have called the match director over and informed them the target support needed to be secured.

 

[DoNotReply]

Don't sweat it to much. Still being new, and informing the squad beforehand, you did the right thing. Just having to learn lingo and nuances of communicating effectively.
As @A&8's stated when in doubt or emotions start running just get the MD's attention to work it out and be done with it.

 

[308pirate]

A hit on a target support is a miss. Always.

Never try to appease a competitor by giving him a hit after you called it a miss. It destroys your credibility as an impartial referee and emboldens assholes who try to bully officials. If the match director wants to override you, consider never officiating at that place again.

 

[Eustice]

The target is the target and the post is the post. If he hit the post 2 feet below the target is that a hit? If it was hung from two posts and suspended by chains would an RO give him a hit for hitting a post? I’d imagine that the stage brief described the target, not the post.

 

[CoryT]

Decision of the stage official is final. You may file a dispute with the Match Director by submitting a $100 protest fee, at which point I will uphold the decision of the stage official. Hits to a target support are a scored as a miss.

 

[flyfisher117]

A impact to the support stand is not an impact.

As a match director and competitor, when I am calling/spotting, I call "Impact" if a hit to the actual target and "Post" if the bullet impacts the post. That way, the shooter is aware that I seen it and called it accordingly.

In the scenario of the OP, I would have called the match director over and informed them the target support needed to be secured.

Good point. All of the shots in question happened at the end of their run it was 3 or 4 in a row and they were down on time so they were cranking them out. I hadn't thought of calling out "post" but that does make sense. It would have helped the rest of the squad understand why they heard impacts and no calls.

Don't sweat it to much. Still being new, and informing the squad beforehand, you did the right thing. Just having to learn lingo and nuances of communicating effectively.
As @A&8's stated when in doubt or emotions start running just get the MD's attention to work it out and be done with it.

It didn't get too heated just frustrated shooter. The fact that the impacts were so close to the plate made me second guess if it was spatter I saw on the t post or if they may have even glanced the very edge of the plate, resulting in the lack of plate movement their other shots made.

 

[flyfisher117]

A hit on a target support is a miss. Always.

Never try to appease a competitor by giving him a hit after you called it a miss. It destroys your credibility as an impartial referee and emboldens assholes who try to bully officials. If the match director wants to override you, consider never officiating at that place again.

I agree, being new I didn't want to step on toes which is likely going to step on more toes than just making my case and leaving it at that. It was also a small enough match it was just squad moms and helpers spotting and keeping score.

There was 3 experienced shooters, me, a guy who this was his first match,and another than I am not sure. All of us sharing one spotter wasn't great. I'll likely start taking my own tripod and binos for more eyes on targets.

 

[flyfisher117]

The target is the target and the post is the post. If he hit the post 2 feet below the target is that a hit? If it was hung from two posts and suspended by chains would an RO give him a hit for hitting a post? I’d imagine that the stage brief described the target, not the post.

You are correct. Biggest reason I second guessed is the impacts were right off the bottom of the plate. Like less than 1". I had questioned when it's so close if I should have given the benefit of the doubt to the shooter during the run.

Decision of the stage official is final. You may file a dispute with the Match Director by submitting a $100 protest fee, at which point I will uphold the decision of the stage official. Hits to a target support are a scored as a miss.

Does the stage official count as a squad mom. This shoot was small enough there wasn't even stage officials. Just squads policing themselves.

 

[hlee]

The only time I’ll give some latitude is on the 22lr 50y kyl spinner rack. I figure, if you hit that little 1/4” hangar well enough to spin the plate, you get the point. Of course, that’s at local events where the RO is part of the squad. And, when hlee and family show up to shoot, we are pretty much our own squad.

 

[308pirate]

You are correct. Biggest reason I second guessed is the impacts were right off the bottom of the plate. Like less than 1". I had questioned when it's so close if I should have given the benefit of the doubt to the shooter during the run.

Does the stage official count as a squad mom. This shoot was small enough there wasn't even stage officials. Just squads policing themselves.

Whoever is scoring the targets is a match official. Whether it's a club match or a national championship, the responsibility to see that competition is fair is the same.

 

[D_TROS]

Baring some blatant hit on the stand that is a full rev off or way off on wind, my rule is if I can see the target move I give the hit. I dont care if its a strap, post, etc etc. Im not always sure if it barely edged the target or just plain hit the support instead, I guarantee they werent aiming for the stand (rare case in point of not going by my rule is if the strap is larger than the target - in which case I usually tell em barely moving is a strap hits as any hit on target makes it jump like crazy).

If they are able to hit a 1" t-post or 1/2" bar holding it...and can repeatedly do it, im giving pts.

But I would say the most importantly thing is being consistent with all shooters if similar impacts happen later in match.

Or unless instructed by MD that if plate barely moves from edge hit it does not count - Ive nv been told this and I RO a ton.

For my match, I tell my RO's if plate moves AT ALL give the impact. All my targets are on t-posts.

BUT if a shooter gets mouthy or is a dik, I just say sorry thats mirage you missed. Dont put up with any BS. If he pushes it get the MD. I had a shooter get all pist at me for not telling him the time left when I was intently watching for impacts and he timed out. Didnt hurt my feelings one bit. His reputation on the other hand...


GL
DT

 

[hlee]

For my match, I tell my RO's if plate moves AT ALL give the impact. All my targets are on t-posts.

Specific to 22lr events, I have heard about shooter that will shoot the “knuckle” that the KYL hangar stems are suspended from, then argue for a hit…

“The plate shook, that’s a hit.”

 

[D_TROS]

Specific to 22lr events, I have heard about shooter that will shoot the “knuckle” that the KYL hangar stems are suspended from, then argue for a hit…

“The plate shook, that’s a hit.”

Good Q and this could easily fall into the strap/stand is larger than the target so it isnt a hit (pending how far knuckle is above target), and I only say could be easy to see because 22 leaves a easily recognizable grey splatter where it impacts. With anything close to good glass this should be quickly seen UNLESS is it very very close to the target...then you will take away a possible edge hit??

I wont...but Im not mad if others do. Just be consistent. As a match director, unless otherwise obvious, plate moves = hit. Also as a MD, it literally dissolves most conflicts before they happen...are you really saving the world taking away a stand hit? (again not when EASILY seen as otherwise)

ETA - just saw you mentioned KYL rack. Ive shot alot of 22 matches and nvr heard of this kind of cheating. Unless seen otherwise, I would give the hit for sure. I hope I catch em cheating tho. Another great method for spotting is also watching trace. If I see trace not go close and target moves, easy miss call. So if I suspected on a certain shooter I would def get in line behind him.

Regards
DT

 

[KnowNothing256]

Good Q and this could easily fall into the strap/stand is larger than the target so it isnt a hit (pending how far knuckle is above target), and I only say could be easy to see because 22 leaves a easily recognizable grey splatter where it impacts. With anything close to good glass this should be quickly seen UNLESS is it very very close to the target...then you will take away a possible edge hit??

I wont...but Im not mad if others do. Just be consistent. As a match director, unless otherwise obvious, plate moves = hit. Also as a MD, it literally dissolves most conflicts before they happen...are you really saving the world taking away a stand hit? (again not when EASILY seen as otherwise)

ETA - just saw you mentioned KYL rack. Ive shot alot of 22 matches and nvr heard of this kind of cheating. Unless seen otherwise, I would give the hit for sure. I hope I catch em cheating tho. Another great method for spotting is also watching trace. If I see trace not go close and target moves, easy miss call. So if I suspected on a certain shooter I would def get in line behind him.

Regards
DT

Fwiw, I haven’t cheated this way on a 22 KYL, but my gamer’s mind certainly thought of it the first time I ever saw the thing. If I can think of it, someone else out there who wants to cheat on a silly game will think of it too, and then do it. 100% believe this has happened somewhere.

 

[Eustice]

Baring some blatant hit on the stand that is a full rev off or way off on wind, my rule is if I can see the target move I give the hit. I dont care if its a strap, post, etc etc. Im not always sure if it barely edged the target or just plain hit the support instead, I guarantee they werent aiming for the stand (rare case in point of not going by my rule is if the strap is larger than the target - in which case I usually tell em barely moving is a strap hits as any hit on target makes it jump like crazy).

If they are able to hit a 1" t-post or 1/2" bar holding it...and can repeatedly do it, im giving pts.

But I would say the most importantly thing is being consistent with all shooters if similar impacts happen later in match.

Or unless instructed by MD that if plate barely moves from edge hit it does not count - Ive nv been told this and I RO a ton.

For my match, I tell my RO's if plate moves AT ALL give the impact. All my targets are on t-posts.

BUT if a shooter gets mouthy or is a dik, I just say sorry thats mirage you missed. Dont put up with any BS. If he pushes it get the MD. I had a shooter get all pist at me for not telling him the time left when I was intently watching for impacts and he timed out. Didnt hurt my feelings one bit. His reputation on the other hand...


GL
DT

You are inconsistent with your first paragraph.

If someone hits a 1” rock next to the target three times do you award three hits for consistency? Seems more like they’ve consistently missed the target.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If I “think it might” be hitting the post, but I’m not absolutely sure, I give shooter benefit of the doubt.

If I absolutely know it’s hitting the hanger/stand, it’s a miss.

If I wasn’t sure and say for example called two “impacts” and then figure out it’s hitting the hanger/stand, shooter still gets credit for the impacts I may have incorrectly called as I already called impact. But will not receive any more points once I know it’s hitting hanger/stand and they continue to do so.

 

[flyfisher117]

If I “think it might” be hitting the post, but I’m not absolutely sure, I give shooter benefit of the doubt.

If I absolutely know it’s hitting the hanger/stand, it’s a miss.

If I wasn’t sure and say for example called two “impacts” and then figure out it’s hitting the hanger/stand, shooter still gets credit for the impacts I may have incorrectly called as I already called impact. But will not receive any more points once I know it’s hitting hanger/stand and they continue to do so.

Thanks. I was listening to the rifles only podcast yesterday and they had mentioned they will give the shooter the benefit of the doubt so just curious if that was the general consensus in the match world.

 

[308pirate]

Thanks. I was listening to the rifles only podcast yesterday and they had mentioned they will give the shooter the benefit of the doubt so just curious if that was the general consensus in the match world.

I've competed seriously in NRA Highpower Rifle, NSCA sporting clays, IDPA, and USPSA. In all of them scoring doubt, when it exists, goes in favor of the shooter.

 

[D_TROS]

Guess just wanted to add to OP situation. No be back and forth. Stick up for your call.

You are inconsistent with your first paragraph.

If someone hits a 1” rock next to the target three times do you award three hits for consistency? Seems more like they’ve consistently missed the target.

how is hitting a rock next to the target going to move the target and who said anything about rewarding consistencies?

the only thing consistent in this game is the inconsistencies. Thats why you have to rely on many qualifiers when awarding impacts (noise, target movement, the way the target moves, ground around target movement, trace, environment influences etc etc). even after all that there is always some discrepancies. In those instances shooter gets the benefit of the doubt.


as mentioned, I give benefit of the doubt to the shooter every time. If shooter wants to lie or cheat in a meaningless game, thats their problem not mine. but I will be watching and Im very good at it.

if you want to see how to RO come shoot my match. Ill give you a free slot. Located in CO. plenty of wind and shitty backstops. lol.


Regards
DT

 

[DFOOSKING]

Do you see up there at the top....

In the targets and ranges section....

The target at 55yds is 2.5".....

Its not 2.5" plus any random shit next to it or in the vacinity.

If it was.....it would say on there.

 

[D_TROS]

View attachment 7737686

Do you see up there at the top....

In the targets and ranges section....

The target at 55yds is 2.5".....

Its not 2.5" plus any random shit next to it or in the vacinity.

If it was.....it would say on there.

JUST because Im bored lol./ and you nvr answered the OP question.

Ok fine your little pic above. 2.5" cir above. Shooter first shot he hits bottom of plate. Impact.

you have shitty binos and you are helping RO because a friend asked (I know who you are this is hypothetical and a very real example that happens in EVERY match)

second shot you almost think the plate jumps but plainly see an impact on the metal vertical post and cant really tell if plate jumped before shot hit post. you dont call it an impact at the time but you are def second guessing youself.

rest of shots lets say he hits the following 10 on the bottom edge.

he does the obvious jump up im pretty sure that was an impact I think I see a mark on bottom of plate.

simple yes or no, you giving him the impact??

as said above, I am and not even caring one bit. I would tell him he got 11/12 but if he pushed it I would give it.

Regards
DT

 

[Eustice]

Guess just wanted to add to OP situation. No be back and forth. Stick up for your call.


how is hitting a rock next to the target going to move the target and who said anything about rewarding consistencies?

the only thing consistent in this game is the inconsistencies. Thats why you have to rely on many qualifiers when awarding impacts (noise, target movement, the way the target moves, ground around target movement, trace, environment influences etc etc). even after all that there is always some discrepancies. In those instances shooter gets the benefit of the doubt.


as mentioned, I give benefit of the doubt to the shooter every time. If shooter wants to lie or cheat in a meaningless game, thats their problem not mine. but I will be watching and Im very good at it.

if you want to see how to RO come shoot my match. Ill give you a free slot. Located in CO. plenty of wind and shitty backstops. lol.


Regards
DT

I’m pretty good already. And no thanks on the offer. Your description sounds like something I have no desire to be a part of.

 

[Eustice]

JUST because Im bored lol./ and you nvr answered the OP question.

Ok fine your little pic above. 2.5" cir above. Shooter first shot he hits bottom of plate. Impact.

you have shitty binos and you are helping RO because a friend asked (I know who you are this is hypothetical and a very real example that happens in EVERY match)

second shot you almost think the plate jumps but plainly see an impact on the metal vertical post and cant really tell if plate jumped before shot hit post. you dont call it an impact at the time but you are def second guessing youself.

rest of shots lets say he hits the following 10 on the bottom edge.

he does the obvious jump up im pretty sure that was an impact I think I see a mark on bottom of plate.

simple yes or no, you giving him the impact??

as said above, I am and not even caring one bit. I would tell him he got 11/12 but if he pushed it I would give it.

Regards
DT

You’d give him 11/12 but if he pushed it you’d give him the hit, despite seeing it hit the post. No thanks on your offer on learning how to RO. Your ROs sound like they’d be pushovers and bullied by everyone into hits that weren’t.

Regards
Eustice

 

[StrayDog]

I'm pretty sure most places holding .22 matches with steel are doing it mostly for fun, and probably have some older and younger shooters mixed in. Give the tough calls to the shooters, and lighten up Francis. The squad or group will recognize the grace...

 

[lash]

I’ll chime in on this one.

I’m running small local NRL22 matches and have experience I can relay. What some of you may not know is that many of the targets in these matches are smaller than the posts or hangers that they are on. In the case of the Kyl rack, it typically goes; 3/4”, 5/8”, 1/2”, 1/4” and the transition part of the hanger is much larger than the target. And it is about 4-5” above the target itself. A hit on the target, support metal, or transition will make it spin our swing mightily.

In this case, you will not know for sure where that impact was, for at least two reasons. First off after the first impact or two on targets that size, there is no recognizable paint left and you will not know where on the target the impact was/wasn’t. Secondly, upon impact, whether it be the small target circle, the stem of that target, or the mounting transition piece, the target will spin or at least swing back and forth quickly. There is literally no time or way to know exactly where that impact was. So it’s a Hit.

That having been said, I’ve heard people at my matches say that they “used to just aim at the large transitions because it was easier.” But of course they don’t do that any longer…

Okay, so back to the OP’s situation. I believe that if you are calling “Post”, that is tantamount to coaching them and saying the shot is low. You either impact the target or you don’t, assuming the difference is distinguishable on that type of target.

 

[hlee]

I've competed seriously in NRA Highpower Rifle, NSCA sporting clays…

My son shot the NSCA national tournament main event a couple of weeks ago. On one stand, the trapper was telling shooters they were behind the bird because she “saw the wad” behind the target. We were watching and every break was on the leading edge. Sure, they were missing behind. Another was telling shooters to double whatever lead they thought they needed on her stand. Son shot it clean, using ‘normal’ lead. (For those that don’t know, trappers aren’t supposed to give any coaching). And, another trapper called dead birds twice (that we saw) when a shooter knocked broken chips off the ground as the bird crashed to earth (intact). Why did I type this? Because being an RO, even at a big national tournament (>1700 entrants were in the main) is a series of judgement calls and some go your way while others don’t.

 

[308pirate]

My son shot the NSCA national tournament main event a couple of weeks ago. On one stand, the trapper was telling shooters they were behind the bird because she “saw the wad” behind the target. We were watching and every break was on the leading edge. Sure, they were missing behind. Another was telling shooters to double whatever lead they thought they needed on her stand. Son shot it clean, using ‘normal’ lead. (For those that don’t know, trappers aren’t supposed to give any coaching). And, another trapper called dead birds twice (that we saw) when a shooter knocked broken chips off the ground as the bird crashed to earth (intact). Why did I type this? Because being an RO, even at a big national tournament (>1700 entrants were in the main) is a series of judgement calls and some go your way while others don’t.

That's more than judgement calls and human error. That's plain incompetence and not knowing how to stay in your lane.

USPSA has by far the most professional body of match officials I have seen in amateur sports, and they are all amateurs too.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Fwiw, I haven’t cheated this way on a 22 KYL, but my gamer’s mind certainly thought of it the first time I ever saw the thing.

I've seen people do it in PRS matches, too. Next match I attended at the same venue, it was clearly spelled out that hits on the "hinge" section of the target (several inches above the target itself) that appears to be intentional would result in a stage DQ.

If I “think it might” be hitting the post, but I’m not absolutely sure, I give shooter benefit of the doubt.

If I absolutely know it’s hitting the hanger/stand, it’s a miss.

If I wasn’t sure and say for example called two “impacts” and then figure out it’s hitting the hanger/stand, shooter still gets credit for the impacts I may have incorrectly called as I already called impact. But will not receive any more points once I know it’s hitting hanger/stand and they continue to do so.

This is exactly how I handle it.

 

[accurate obsession]

This shooting the pivot knuckle of the KYL can't be that prevalent. Honestly, doing such a thing never even crossed my mind, not even as a remote "maybe I will try". I'm not a huge gamer, to my detriment sometimes, because I should be more aggressive occasionally. I have never even watched for such a thing at a match, but I will now. This crosses from the gamer realm to flat out cheating and it is and will forever be a miss and if you have the balls to argue it with me you can take a ride to Dairy Queen.

 

[accurate obsession]

As far as post hits go, this is exactly the way I handle it as well. After all a lot of our matches are more like friendly get together's than hard core, I'll gladly give benefit of the doubt points.

If I “think it might” be hitting the post, but I’m not absolutely sure, I give shooter benefit of the doubt.

If I absolutely know it’s hitting the hanger/stand, it’s a miss.

If I wasn’t sure and say for example called two “impacts” and then figure out it’s hitting the hanger/stand, shooter still gets credit for the impacts I may have incorrectly called as I already called impact. But will not receive any more points once I know it’s hitting hanger/stand and they continue to do so.

 

[hlee]

That's more than judgement calls and human error. That's plain incompetence and not knowing how to stay in your lane.

USPSA has by far the most professional body of match officials I have seen in amateur sports, and they are all amateurs too.

Agree on all points, though I don't shoot USPSA. Ironic that the NSCA has a mandatory course a prospective trapper must complete to become a certified trapper and pull at events. It burns my son up- who is a certified trapper- and he hangs his head in shame when he sees the shenanigans (dead birds called as lost, lost birds called as dead, coaching, incompetent coaching, pulling extra show pairs, refusing to pull the allowed number of show pairs, not knowing the rules, etc). He even had one trapper call a dead pair, then mark it down on his card as lost.

I will say that the shotgunners that I have witnessed are generally very generous in calling corrections for trappers when they miss a dead bird- not the shooter, but others in the squad or next squad waiting to shoot. And, no one argues the occasional dead bird that gets away...

That's enough of a thread derail. But, this is a look into what it is like at a week long national championship tournament, with ROs certified by a national organization and paid decent money. Anyone expecting perfection from volunteer ROs at an event that barely pulls in 100 shooters is dreaming. Consistency. That is what an RO should strive for. Sure, accuracy too. But if the same call is made the same way for the same (non)impact for all shooters at that stage, it is a wash.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

you can take a ride to Dairy Queen.

I've shown up to a few PRS matches where I was ROing with my ARS DQ shirt in my bag. Ironically, the only time I have had to MDQ people it was when I didn't actually pack the shirt.

 

[hlee]

This shooting the pivot knuckle of the KYL can't be that prevalent. Honestly, doing such a thing never even crossed my mind, not even as a remote "maybe I will try". I'm not a huge gamer, to my detriment sometimes, because I should be more aggressive occasionally. I have never even watched for such a thing at a match, but I will now. This crosses from the gamer realm to flat out cheating and it is and will forever be a miss and if you have the balls to argue it with me you can take a ride to Dairy Queen.

I don't know how prevalent it is. But, I heard from a shooter at a local event that it was observed at a NRL22 championship a couple of years ago. He was on the glass and was getting squawk from the shooter about "the plate jiggling." Obvious splatter on the knuckle/hinge.

I probably would have completely forgotten about it, except that I heard a similar story from a different shooter at an unrelated event just a few weeks ago. I was shopping steel rimfire targets at the NSCA National championships during some down time between events and got to talking to the vendor. Started talking about his KYL swinger and he recounted his experience with shooters going for the hinge/knuckle.

 

[308pirate]

Weld or bolt a fucking plate to the front of the KYL rack that covers everything except the actual lollipop. Also paint the target areas after every shooter.

That'll show em.

 

[A&8's]

I believe that if you are calling “Post”, that is tantamount to coaching them and saying the shot is low. You either impact the target or you don’t, assuming the difference is distinguishable on that type of target.

Not necessarily. All of my targets stands, be it a T-post or a step-in stand, have areas above and below the target that can be hit. IMO, calling "post", as I stated in the 2nd reply to this post, is letting the shooter know, " ...I seen it and called it accordingly.

This shooting the pivot knuckle of the KYL can't be that prevalent.

You may be surprised.
I had a shooter consistently shooting the hangar area of a KYL rack. So, the next couple matches, I put a 2"x6" board on a make-shift stand about 18" in front of the KYL rack, blocking everything except the paddle of the target. I wish I had a camera to take a pic of the shooter s face the next month. It was of sheer terror. He hasn't returned.

 

[308pirate]

I had a shooter consistently shooting the hangar area of a KYL rack. So, the next couple matches, I put a 2"x6" board on a make-shift stand about 18" in front of the KYL rack, blocking everything except the paddle of the target. I wish I had a camera to take a pic of the shooter s face the next month. It was of sheer terror. He hasn't returned.

What a douche.......LOL

Glad you took care of him.

That's the difference between gaming and cheating

 

[lash]

You may be surprised.
I had a shooter consistently shooting the hangar area of a KYL rack. So, the next couple matches, I put a 2"x6" board on a make-shift stand about 18" in front of the KYL rack, blocking everything except the paddle of the target. I wish I had a camera to take a pic of the shooter s face the next month. It was of sheer terror. He hasn't returned.

I like that idea and may have to try that.

 

[A&8's]

I like that idea and may have to try that.

Super easy to do. You could even use 2 target stands, a 2" x ? and two clamps. Have 1 guy get down into shooting position and you move the 2 x up/down to get the height right, then clamp it down.

 

[hlee]

Super easy to do. You could even use 2 target stands, a 2" x ? and two clamps. Have 1 guy get down into shooting position and you move the 2 x up/down to get the height right, then clamp it down.

And then you write into the stage description that hits on the 2x count as 1 pt deductions...

Edited to add: In the specific instance of the "typical 22lr KLY rack" set at 25 or 50 yards; the more I think about it, the more I like 'if it doesn't spin, it doesn't count.' Even though I have benefited from my share of edge hits on that little 1/4" target that just got it moving a bit.

 

[Ruff 364]

Specific to 22lr events, I have heard about shooter that will shoot the “knuckle” that the KYL hangar stems are suspended from, then argue for a hit…

“The plate shook, that’s a hit.”

Easy to fix, paint the "knuckle" and stage zero for anyone who intentional shoots that.

 

[lash]

Easy to fix, paint the "knuckle" and stage zero for anyone who intentional shoots that.

As mentioned above, these are typically very small targets that this occurs on and they spin rapidly when hit. There is no time during the stage or between shots to see exactly where the impact was.

 

[KnowNothing256]

As mentioned above, these are typically very small targets that this occurs on and they spin rapidly when hit. There is no time during the stage or between shots to see exactly where the impact was.

For example, the hangar for the 1/4” target is only a tiny bit skinnier than that, so you have a lot more real estate to shoot at than it sounds like; all you really have to do to spin the thing is get your windage right and not miss low, but you can aim as high as you like. Theoretically.

 

[6.5SH]

The actual 'knuckle' part is quite large, several square inches. The wood barrier idea was brilliant.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

As a former match official, if it does not hit the target it is not a hit. In our case, the target was free standing and it had to be knocked off of the base/rail. Hitting it and not knocking it off of the stand, turning it but not knocking it off of the stand (both happened to me in matches) does not count. In our case, if we hit the rail hard enough to knock a target off of the rain or hit another target moves in such a way that the actual target falls do count. In PRS/NRL the only off hit that would count is a ricochet that actually impacts the target.

(My best shot, Standing with a handgun. Using a light loaded 44 magnum, I hit the rail and three pigs fell. Fortunately on of the pigs was the one I was aiming at and I got alibis for the other two. ).

 

[Topstrap]

At my 22 rimfire matches unless it's right at the weld where the hanger joins the target it's a miss. I made a special rack especially for 37 yards, at that distance the bullet is still on its way up and on a small target most shooters will shoot over it. I usually only get them a couple times before they research their trajectory at that distance a bit more.

On a regular hanging target if they have the wrong dope they'll hit the hanger and argue the hit. Took a bit of thinking but I cured that problem, this rack also has a gamble shot with it being a smaller target 1/2 size of the others which has to be their first shot. Kinda evil but makes them be right on to hit it. Some shooters use the same setting for 25 and 50 yards but for some reason they miss the 37 yards one. Pretty amusing to watch them.

Topstrap

 

[flyfisher117]

At my 22 rimfire matches unless it's right at the weld where the hanger joins the target it's a miss. I made a special rack especially for 37 yards, at that distance the bullet is still on its way up and on a small target most shooters will shoot over it. I usually only get them a couple times before they research their trajectory at that distance a bit more.

On a regular hanging target if they have the wrong dope they'll hit the hanger and argue the hit. Took a bit of thinking but I cured that problem, this rack also has a gamble shot with it being a smaller target 1/2 size of the others which has to be their first shot. Kinda evil but makes them be right on to hit it. Some shooters use the same setting for 25 and 50 yards but for some reason they miss the 37 yards one. Pretty amusing to watch them.

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Topstrap

That's pretty cool!

 

[jinxx4ever]

Easy to fix, paint the "knuckle" and stage zero for anyone who intentional shoots that.

many have put a deflector over the knuckles, because gamers/cheaters were shooting for the knuckle instead of the smaller targets. hitting the knuckle made them swing