Imperfect shot compromise ?

[Chanonry]

So I watched a video years ago where Frank was talking about having to accept indexing and trading (in my language compromising, I think) between the fundamentals when the position is not perfect.

There is always lots of chat on here about running the fundamentals perfectly and the results when you don't. This is all great as learning and as best practice when time allows, but what about when time does not allow ? For me it is mainly about a compromised natural point of aim. Are there cheats to get the quick shot in when you need to that is 'good enough' ?

I have been shooting 7.62 and 6mm stuff but am going to move up to a 7mm SAUM. The range will be fine but out hunting the second (+) shots are going to be the challenge. We can all set up pretty for the first one even if it is a bit compromised, but when they are all milling about then stop for a second I am not going to have time to finesse my npa.

I was playing about with this on the range yesterday and it was back to school with the muzzle jumping around. Good for highlighting laziness on the fundamentals but what do I do when the npa compromised and that is as good as it is going to get??

 

[Greg Langelius *]

A lot of us dismiss using the sling in favor of using a bipod or a rest, but I would still be using it a lot if age and nature had been a bit kinder to me.

Nearly a decade of National Match Highpower had given me a solid grounding in slung positional shooting and my four positions were very steady. I could stay with the bipod folks (i.e. defeat that target) at any distance where I could see the target well enough. Nowadays I can't handle the physical with any version of support from the prone but I would not hesitate to use slung prone if my life/the farm was on the line (i.e, some days all the good options are already taken, but wadda ya gonna do, raise your hands? Nope.).

To get back to what Frank was saying, I interpret that to mean that any compromised position is still good as long as it's the best that can be achieved under the current condition. You do your best to improvise, adapt, and overcome, and when you have, you call it "good".

In such instances, WWCD (What Would Carlos Do?) is the byword.

Greg

 

[308pirate]

It's rare the situation where you have to compromise NPA. Compromise stability, yes. NPA, no.

 

[Fig]

What kind of shooting are you doing?

The fundamentals don't go away, but there's more to it. Loading into the rifle/bipod the same way every time is good advice, but you can't always do it, so you should also learn to shoot free recoil as well, because sometimes that's way more stable than trying to load into the rifle when you're shooting off something rickety and unstable. Other times there are ways to make that thing more stable so you can load into the rifle.

I think of it simply as reticle wobble. I want as little as possible. There is steady on the target (prone, bipod, loaded), making tiny circles on the target (like off a Viking Barricade), making bigger circles that wobble on an off the target (like an unsupported steel barrel), and then rolling like a ship in a storm (chain platform).

Those platforms suspended with chain stages are like that. You can kind of use your legs as counterweights to try and correct for sway, but your reticle is moving pretty fast across the target. There are situations where a trigger "jerk" is actually the best way to get an impact rather than a fundamentally perfect squeeze. There are always exceptions to the rules, and practice and experience will teach you where those are.

 

[Chanonry]

(i.e, some days all the good options are already taken, but wadda ya gonna do, raise your hands? Nope.).

Exactly.

So I am deer culling. Take the first shot at say 350. The thing legs its up the hill. I am not going to take a mover but it pauses at say 450 but its on a different line. If I don't take the shot I/we could literally be chasing it for miles over the hill. You just have to shuck round get some elevation and windage on it and get the shot off. NPA is going to be less than perfect.

I can probably get a shot on it with the 308, but up the mountain in the wind and that bit further out something faster and with less drift would make anchoring it more certain. Hence the SAUM. BUT its not much use if the system is that much harder to shoot - it just makes those follow up shots more likely.

No free lunches I guess.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I don't take long "meat" shots anymore. Nothing about ethics, I just can't walk very far and haul out a carcass these days.

Greg

 

[TheGerman]

What you are describing is basically combat shooting. Your target size, correct ballistics and cone of accuracy for the gun come into play here much more than having everything set up perfectly to shoot a 1/4MOA group that you don't need nor have time for.

Do you think I'm aiming at the button on his shirt?

 

[SLG]

Hunting out west, let alone other situations, I have found my NPA compromised more than a few times. If you are wedged in a rock, you may be in the only possible place, and your rifle still needs to point at the target. Not much of an issue for pure accuracy, since the target size is fairly generous, but follow up shots are certainly slower since your recoil control will be compromised. Again, not a big deal if you train for realistic scenarios, then you just deal with it.

eta:

I'm a BIG fan of the sling for real field conditions. Not always needed or even wanted, but often very useful.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Exactly.

So I am deer culling. Take the first shot at say 350. The thing legs its up the hill. I am not going to take a mover but it pauses at say 450 but its on a different line. If I don't take the shot I/we could literally be chasing it for miles over the hill. You just have to shuck round get some elevation and windage on it and get the shot off. NPA is going to be less than perfect.

I can probably get a shot on it with the 308, but up the mountain in the wind and that bit further out something faster and with less drift would make anchoring it more certain. Hence the SAUM. BUT its not much use if the system is that much harder to shoot - it just makes those follow up shots more likely.

No free lunches I guess.

If you didn't hit it at 350, then 450 is unlikely anyway. If you already hit it at 350, then every shot after that is free.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Your scenario reminds me of shooting rock chucks in the lava fields in Idaho.
It really boils down to making the first shot count even when shooting in a hurry.

Getting a better shot the second time around is very unlikely.

Why not take the extra nano seconds to ensure better shot placement or just pass on the shot?

 

[hlee]

While I totally get that deer culling is not about sportsmanship, it’s about time and numbers (there are only so many hours in the day and you need to shoot x number of deer each season to keep the herd in check) getting closer is almost always an option. Like said above, if a shot can’t be made at 350, it probably can’t Be made at 450 either. While Culling may be akin to combat shooting as said above- though I’m not totally convinced- a shot not taken has no negative consequences. No one is getting shot or blown up if you pass on a questionable shot.

A smaller cartridge that you can shoot well will serve you much better than a larger cartridge that you do not. The bigger is better mentality in hunting is probably responsible for more wounded and lost game than going “undregunned. “

The above notwithstanding, field shooting is all about compromising stability for a shot popportunity. Shots are rarely taken from the prone position when they actually matter. Off a rock, leaning on a tree trunk, propped on a fence post, kneeling over a log, a half crouch over a limb, using a tripod; none of these are as stable as shooting from prone, and all sacrifice some component of stability. But, the fundamentals should still be there; bone support, natural point of aim, sight picture, trigger control, etc.

So, how do you make the shot when you’re wobbling all over the place? The first step is to realize that you ARE going to wobble. Don’t fight it. The more you fight it, the bigger and more unpredictable the wobble will be. Accept it. Natural point of aim in this context does not mean that the crosshairs are pinned on the bullseye like they are painted there. Rather, it means that the gun is naturally pointing to the target without being muscled (this is that bone support and NPA). The crosshairs might be floating in and out of your desired point of aim, but they are doing so somewhat regularly and predictably. You can not eliminate the wobble, but with practice and the propped application of fundamentals you can minimize it. And, you can trigger the rifle when the crosshairs are crossing your desired point of aim (sight picture and trigger control).

 

[308pirate]

Natural point of aim in this context does not mean that the crosshairs are pinned on the bullseye like they are painted there. Rather, it means that the gun is naturally pointing to the target without being muscled (this is that bone support and NPA). The crosshairs might be floating in and out of your desired point of aim, but they are doing so somewhat regularly and predictably. You can not eliminate the wobble, but with practice and the propped application of fundamentals you can minimize it. And, you can trigger the rifle when the crosshairs are crossing your desired point of aim (sight picture and trigger control).

Couldn't have explained it better

The more I shoot scoped rifles in field positions / PRS-style matches the more I come to realize that my background in highpower rifle matches is helping me a ton.

+1 to SLG's comment about sling use too.

 

[hlee]

 

[RTH1800]

When you cannot make a 350 yard shot deer culling it's time to train up or get better gear. Were talking what, 5 MOA at 350 yards on a stag?
Not being critical of the poster, he was just trying to give a field example. I doubt the guy is missing any 350 meter shots if he is like any of the Scottish game keepers I have hunted with. They do that with .275 Rigby Mausers and open iron sights in low light.

 

[hlee]

If any hit is a good hit, then 5 MOA may be a good estimate. I would put the requirements closer to 6" target at any range. That's a bit less than 2 MOA at 350.

 

[RTH1800]

Red stag is the size of spike bull elk.

 

[hlee]

Red stag is the size of spike bull elk.

Ok, how big are the vitals? Heart and lungs...

 

[RTH1800]

12"x14" I would say.