Importance of bubble level in the real world

#101
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

After adding a bubble indicator, I found that I naturally canted the rifle to the left a few degrees, which affected my longer range windage. The bubble has improved my shooting. Some people don't need it or want it. It works for me. I also usually shoot under conditions where I do not usually have a natural horizon to act as an indicator.
 
#102
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

"George won it several times without one, I was 2nd more than once without it, how do you account for the winners who didn't use it. "

1) Statistically inconsequential. Survivorship bias. You could just as easily ask - how many low-scoring shooters didn't have one, and would have done better with one? Correlation doesn't imply causation.

2) There are many optical illusions due to slope. Our minds, inner ears and eyes have many perceptual flaws. To follow the pilot thread, there are well-known illusions associated with down or up-sloping runways. Simply Googling "slope illusion" will produce great (and fun!) examples of our flawed perceptions.

I think a more productive discussion might revolve around:
Are these very small levels accurate in and of themselves? (certainly there is a large price range)
What is the correct procedure to mount them so that level, reticle, etc are internally consistent?
Are there situations where they can be unhelpful?
When does cant error exceed other errors (and thus needs to be guarded against)

Data, not assertions, would make this and other threads more useful. But I wont hold my breath, because I suspect many enjoy the entertainment value of threads without...
 
#103
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paul Stafford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"George won it several times without one, I was 2nd more than once without it, how do you account for the winners who didn't use it. "

1) Statistically inconsequential. Survivorship bias. You could just as easily ask - how many low-scoring shooters didn't have one, and would have done better with one? Correlation doesn't imply causation.

2) There are many optical illusions due to slope. Our minds, inner ears and eyes have many perceptual flaws. To follow the pilot thread, there are well-known illusions associated with down or up-sloping runways. Simply Googling "slope illusion" will produce great (and fun!) examples of our flawed perceptions.

I think a more productive discussion might revolve around:
Are these very small levels accurate in and of themselves? (certainly there is a large price range)
What is the correct procedure to mount them so that level, reticle, etc are internally consistent?
Are there situations where they can be unhelpful?
When does cant error exceed other errors (and thus needs to be guarded against)

Data, not assertions, would make this and other threads more useful. But I wont hold my breath, because I suspect many enjoy the entertainment value of threads without...</div></div>

It's been addressed in varying forms and for every point you make regarding this issue one way or another someone will come in and say,"well it works for me"

Just as in the Spin Drift discussion for everyone acknowledging there is such an effect, we find post after post where a shooter started "adding in SD to their shooting" and now feel they are more successful. The problem is, that number they use grows and grows with every retelling of the tale. People are dialing as much as 2 MOA of SD -- which isn't SD, same thing here, People talk about 5 degrees of can't or more, as if you'd miss that much angle in your rifle.

No, it's best to let people just be happy in their use of the tool as they see fit. Forget the Fact I have been to Scope Factories, and talked with manufacturers in great detail and most will tell you they don't guarantee a reticle better than 3 degrees straight, a good company shoots for 2 degrees, but as much as 3 is not uncommon. So, right there if you never checked your scope correctly, calibrated the clicks, tested the tracking is it worth adding another tool to the tool box when the ones you have and need aren't being used correctly.

it's one thing to blame a cant for a windage error, but what if that error is without an elevation issue ...is it cant or something else.

Lots of caveats, lots of questions, but the fact people are paying money for the device, the emotion of the purchase is going to override the practical nature of its benefits and limitations.

As I stated earlier, how may of the people who posted here, actually checked level on their rail mounted device... because if if the manufacturer is charging $40 you can bet the device cost at least 4x less. It only took me 1 minutes to see the one I had here was off, and not truly leveling the rifle but in fact doing quite the opposite.

Take it for what its worth, but understand this is a relatively new fad to add these to the rail, or scope. And people were hitting quite well for decades without them. Angles or otherwise.
 
#104
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

Frank,

Now look what you've done.....You pissed her off....

tinkerbell2.gif
 
#105
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

Now I could be wrong, so please correct me if so.

Couldn't you use an accurate level to check a flat metal work bench is truely level, then place say a vortex level on the bench. The vortex has a flat bottom surface just like on the bottom of most scopes. Use the level bench to ensure the vortex's bottom surface truly coincides with the bubbles indication. If it does then use the feeler gauge method to level it to the rail. If all that checks out then why would you not want that instrument on your rifle?

I only shoot maybe 800 rds a year in mountainous conditions where it is hard to perceive true level and I do feel more confidence and better results with this addition. It may be a placebo effect but I do like the confidence and results it gave me. It seems to me that any excess can't when doing say a 34 moa shot would have some decent effects on the POI. I personally would rather have an instrument make double check what I perceive as level and as I tune my sense for level I will begin to shy away from it.
 
#106
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I stated earlier, how may of the people who posted here, actually checked level on their rail mounted device...</div></div>
Good point! If one uses a gadget, it's his responsibility to understand this gadget and ensure that it performs according to expectations. How many actually do it? No idea.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take it for what its worth, but understand this is a relatively new fad to add these to the rail, or scope. And people were hitting quite well for decades without them. Angles or otherwise.</div></div>
I don't buy the reference to "people were hitting quite well...". People were shooting for centuries (why look back to just decades) without bipods+monopods and without scopes, S&B or otherwise - and were making hits that not every one of us could duplicate today. But how much time & efforts did those shooters invest? How many of us have the ability and desire to invest as much?

I think this goes back to the balance between skills and equipment/gadgets providing limited compensation for the lack of those. <span style="font-style: italic">As pointed above - some skills just can't be "bypassed". But some can be.</span>

Ideally we'd like our skills to be perfect, and to need no extra gadgets at all. In practice some skills (or rather abilities) can't be learned or acquired: for example, try to see a human at 900m at night (moonless
smile.gif
). Then our individual differences come to play (some of us lost our 20/20 vision long time ago, some happened to be born with poor vestibular apparatus, some just can't judge distance worth sh**, etc). Gadgets help bridging that gap, at the cost of depending on yet another piece of gear.

And it depends on the context - what are the ground rules of whatever "mission" you're preparing for.
 
#107
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

Funny thread!

He is my contribution.
So in preparation for ASC, I pickup one of the Horus rail mounted ASLIs.
(For those of you that don't know what ASC is, it is nothing but angled shots from very uneven terrain and you do not have the benefit of using the horizon as a reference.)

Anyhow, I shoot the match using the Horus ASLI and before I even get to the second shooting position on the first day it had been knocked loose.
Turned out that the threads in the aluminum mount got stripped or something.
The set screw would start to get tight and then just spin free.

The COSINE still worked fine and I was still able to use it as a rough reference for level if I held it in place.
It was amazing what the difference between what I thought was level and what was level up on the mountain.
With your bearing as turned around, even that broke ass Horus ASLI made the difference in making some great first round hits.

For "Normal" shooting though, I don't think that a level would make a big difference.
 
#108
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget the Fact I have been to Scope Factories, and talked with manufacturers in great detail and most will tell you they don't guarantee a reticle better than 3 degrees straight, a good company shoots for 2 degrees, but as much as 3 is not uncommon. </div></div>

This is interesting and goes to my "dumb instrument" theory...

It's accepted that you and other experienced shooters can look through your glass and tell if your reticle is level. Taken a step further, since you have this ability you'd also know that the reticle was canted because the rifle would "feel" vertical and the reticle would "appear" canted. In other words...if I handed you a rifle with a reticle canted 5 degrees and you changed your hold to level the reticle, you would feel a canted rifle in your hands, correct?

In other words, reticles are essentially dumb instruments. A level reticle does not know whether the rifle underneath it OR the scope that surrounds it is vertical or level. Only the shooter knows what a level rifle feels like.

Its a strange observation I know and maybe even confusing but when I think this through what you should really be doing with your level is training yourself to repeat the "feel" of a vertical rifle, since it will be your natural instinct to try to repeat that feel via muscle memory and after all, isn't dry-firing merely a muscle memory exercise? Its a given that the reticle is more accurately leveled with a plumb line and if its level to what you feel to be a vertical rifle, the task of building a proper shooting position becomes committed to memory. Much in the same way muscle memory is a large component in other precision sports such as darts, pool, golf, etc.

I suppose I'm trying to dissect the skill set required to shoot level. I don't believe equipment (levels) will do anything more than aid you in developing muscle memory.

Thoughts?
 
#110
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

IMHO, you must level your level....

I leveled my rifle (on scope base) then leveled uso level on the base. I had to gently file along the bottom until I got it perfect so that when its level the bubble rests with the left edge of the bubble on the left line.

I have done this with two levels, one fixed and one swivel.

I use it in the mountains when you're shooting up and down hill, or when the background is slanted and you don't have a clear view of what perfect horizontal is.
 
#111
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmokinAce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
monanimated1.gif
</div></div>

Now that's fuuny right there!
 
#112
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

If the base is level(90 to the action) and the scope level is reading true and the cross hairs are level to that. It stands to reason checking that you are level before the shot will help repeatability. Which is what it is all about. As with anything it is how a tool is used that makes it useful. And inproper set up or use should not be taken in to account when forming a judgment of the usefulness of said tool.That said it will never make up for proper training. And may aid in training for some more that others.
 
#113
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

I believe,....
If some of the folks in this thread, would spend as much time learning how to get closer to the target, the need to correct a 2-3* cant error, would be moot. Less shit to snag, tote, an worry about.

It do make my 91/30 look Tacti-cool though,...
 
#114
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget the Fact I have been to Scope Factories, and talked with manufacturers in great detail and most will tell you they don't guarantee a reticle better than 3 degrees straight, a good company shoots for 2 degrees, but as much as 3 is not uncommon. </div></div>

This is interesting and goes to my "dumb instrument" theory...

It's accepted that you and other experienced shooters can look through your glass and tell if your reticle is level. Taken a step further, since you have this ability you'd also know that the reticle was canted because the rifle would "feel" vertical and the reticle would "appear" canted. In other words...if I handed you a rifle with a reticle canted 5 degrees and you changed your hold to level the reticle, you would feel a canted rifle in your hands, correct?

In other words, reticles are essentially dumb instruments. A level reticle does not know whether the rifle underneath it OR the scope that surrounds it is vertical or level. Only the shooter knows what a level rifle feels like.

Its a strange observation I know and maybe even confusing but when I think this through what you should really be doing with your level is training yourself to repeat the "feel" of a vertical rifle, since it will be your natural instinct to try to repeat that feel via muscle memory and after all, isn't dry-firing merely a muscle memory exercise? Its a given that the reticle is more accurately leveled with a plumb line and if its level to what you feel to be a vertical rifle, the task of building a proper shooting position becomes committed to memory. Much in the same way muscle memory is a large component in other precision sports such as darts, pool, golf, etc.

I suppose I'm trying to dissect the skill set required to shoot level. I don't believe equipment (levels) will do anything more than aid you in developing muscle memory.

Thoughts?</div></div>

Correct,

It "feels' unnatural to me, and that was the first thing I noticed which warned me the Level was in fact, NOT Level. I could tell the rifle was not straight.

Repetition, which is where a level can help but only if you understand how to back up you looking at the level with the feel of the rifle.

Also I quarter my targets, so the idea that the ground being slanted is messing me up, really doesn't cause me a problem because I am cutting the target clean. So, level ground or not, how it looks and feels resonates with me. I use my target for reference as well as how the rifle feels. If I am on the ground in the prone and I feel I am not level, even by 1 notch on a bipod legs, I feel it.

I know when I am canted, and in fact when shooting an M4, I cant considerably, because it is fast, comfortable and doesn't matter at M4 distances. But as some have noted, a cant is not necessarily bad, if it is a consistent cant. That is the whole idea beyond the Tubb Rifles that are not designed to be shot straight. The level is to guarantee the cant, not the ground. So you are leveling to the built in offset.

Lots of angle shooting took place without a level, lots of it, with no ill effects. If they made as big a difference as one would imagine you would have seen a huge difference in the scores, where people were trying to find out why someone walked away with on the field, while others floundered. Never happened. It didn't produced decidedly different results for those using it, versus those who didn't. <span style="font-style: italic">(reference to ASC, which I shot since the second one for many years after)</span>

Is it a simple tool worth keeping around, maybe, I could see one making that case, that it's worth having, if you are truly shooting from an alternate position 800m or more away from reduced targets. But understand we are designed to see our world straight up and down. I'm pretty sure we are designed as humans to operate efficiently while keeping our heads straight up and down to our world. Same principle applies here, you should feel it as unnatural.
 
#115
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

Not to fuzzify the muddification here... but what I like about my level is that it lets me know I am being consistent.

Even if it's not 100 percent level with the reticle or the target or gravity... (and I will be checking mine after reading posts here) I at least know that I am holding in the same place with each shot. To me, that consistency is what I am looking for.

But I typically shoot at <300, our dept ROE. Most of my training shots are at 100 yds or less -- typical LE engagement range. My shooting done at longer ranges has been at either schools or prepping for a competition, and it is in those situations that I actually use the level. On that 300 - 700 yd shooting, I have mostly been looking for consistency and I feel it's worked. Whether it has or not... interesting question.

For both proponents of levels and those who aren't fans... I am finding this to be an interesting discussion and am enjoying following it.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
#117
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

That's excellent info Frank and confirms something I've wondered about for some time. I have levels on 2 stiks and none on the other and I don't really need them on any of them (now). When I first got into precision shooting the levels seemed to help, albiet likely because I was doing so many other things wrong that the little bit of consistency it added made an improvement.

As I've progressed I don't use them past setting up my bipod merely so I don't have to break my shooting position to adjust a leg because I wasn't paying attention. Once in position I rely strictly on feel and appearance of the reticle on the target, and I cant the rifle until it feels/looks natural.

I asked this question because of threads like this about levels, cant, scope mounting etc. that rarely ever accomplish anything. I thought...this has to be a teachable skill but its not being taught, at least in the context that you couldn't read a single article on the topic without walking away more confused than when you started.

Knowing what I know now I could have done this without a level except maybe for initial scope mounting until I could get to a place where using a plumb line was practical, or possibly just to develop the muscle memory needed for repeatability.

This is good stuff and one of those moments when the lightbulb finally comes on above your head. Its one of those things I was learning but didn't know why.
 
#118
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

I would much rather see and hear about someone going to greater lengths setting up their rifle, LOP, Sight Picture, leveling the scope, plumbing the reticle, and then calibrating the scope by checking their adjustments across the entire adjustment range, making sure it tracks correctly as well knowing what each click actually means, then hearing they simply mounted a level and did little else.

Taking the time to mount the scope properly, checking its movement and tracking, pays just as much as relying on something like a level and not much else, especially if the majority of your shooting is square range.

I am 100% behind the consistency line of thinking. If you feel you are learning to be more consistent using it, then I should be careful to not address that in a negative way. Consistency is king and anything you can do to enhance your consistency should be regarded as a good thing. However I will caveat that to say, you should be working to be just as consistent without it. Using the level to check your gut feeling, check your sight picture and to confirm something you worked on to already now... am I Level, then checking to confirm, yes you are.

We always says, feel the wind, make your best guess on its value then check it with a kestrel. Don't just rely on the kestrel to tell, but simply verify your feelings. Same thing with ranging, look at it, develop a number, mil it, refine your number, then check it with a laser to confirm. This is how we learn.
 
#119
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also I quarter my targets, so the idea that the ground being slanted is messing me up, really doesn't cause me a problem because I am cutting the target clean.</div></div>

What do you mean by "quartering you targets"?
 
#121
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am not about to murder your fairy. Personally I think Tinkerbell is kinda hot, so who am I to push you towards killing her. </div></div>
Tinkerbell.jpg

</div></div>
Yup ... big ass. fuhgeddaboudit.

As to the USO ACD, if you mount it to the receiver rail on an AR, wouldn't it be automatically square with the rest of the gun? I sure hope so, since I see no way to adjust it.
 
#122
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

It can be adjusted by using a shim if necessary.

A small piece of folded paper, aluminum foil, etc., can be added between the clamp and the rail, under one side or the other, prior to tightening it down. It takes a bit of patience to get the shim to the correct thickness, but it can be done so that the bubble, top of the rail, and reticle are simultaneously level.

As previously mentioned, it rather defeats the purpose of having an anti-cant device if you make every effort to level your base/rail and scope/reticle only to have the anti-cant device canted when the rest of your rig is plumb (or vice versa).
 
#123
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also I quarter my targets, so the idea that the ground being slanted is messing me up, really doesn't cause me a problem because I am cutting the target clean.</div></div>

What do you mean by "quartering you targets"? </div></div>

Aiming at the center of a target, the reticle will split it into four parts. I assume thats what Frank means. It's what I do also.
 
#124
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So,

Here i am setting up my 338LM for a class, moved my 5-25X over, and decided well, hey let me see, I have a bubble level here let me try it.

So I set up the scope, use the Feeler Gauges, make sure that is good, then I look through and make sure all looks square. Check, to me looks good.

Now I add the level to the rail, and check my position, and sure as heck I am just slightly off, not completely but off a bit... but wait, something is not right because the rifle appears to be leaning a bit when the rail level shows level. So I grab a second level and put it on the nice big Parallax knob and check, just to be sure.

Sure enough, where my eye said level was, I was square with the scope, and the rail level was off just enough to actually introduce enough canting I would have probably have to start dialing for Spin Drift. My natural feel was actually on par with the level along the scope and not the rail.

I about started laughing ... so much for that.

You guys enjoy, maybe a few more want to look at checking level and square in more than locations. Vertical as well as horizontal. </div></div>

I realize you have a refined shooting eye and the practice and continued application to retain a good feel for where level is. Not all of us are that good. What you described, is why I don't believe the rail mounted levels work. They rely on the assumption that the surface they are mounted to is level in relation to the bore and bottom of the scope.

I think if you are going to use a level, use one that mounts like a ring around the scope body so you can calibrate it level in relation to the erector assembly on the scope and the bore. It also lets you adjust out any lack of accuracy in the level that you can't do with a regular rail mount. The Vortex offset mount works well, can be adjust to show level when the rifle is level and not the rail, and its offset so you just have to glance at it with your left eye to check.

Rich
 
#125
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">God, I have never seen as many sensitive feeling hurt because we are teasing you over the use of a $40 bubble level.

I am all about advocating that which makes you feel better, a warm and fuzzy feeling inside always helps the cause.

If you believe they will build it, or more to my heart, I am not about to murder your fairy. Personally I think Tinkerbell is kinda hot, so who am I to push you towards killing her. </div></div>

I agree, Tinkerbell is very hot.
 
#127
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't see the point, myself. When was the last time you didn't have something down range that was plumb, or at least close enough? I can't remember shooting someplace where I couldn't see a building, an electric or phone line pole, a tree, lots of trees, etc. </div></div>

In our part of the country the trees aren't plumb, but at least they remind you of the prevailing wind direction.
 
#128
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't see the point, myself. When was the last time you didn't have something down range that was plumb, or at least close enough? I can't remember shooting someplace where I couldn't see a building, an electric or phone line pole, a tree, lots of trees, etc. </div></div>

In our part of the country the trees aren't plumb, but at least they remind you of the prevailing wind direction.</div></div>
And on the East Coast people really dislike it when you start shooting towards the buildings.
grin.gif
 
#129
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

Charlie Robertson has a pretty good article on his score high website in the precision scope monting page related to scope cant.

My feeling is that If you are going to make sure your scope is true to the rifle, and you are shooting 600+ yards, why not use a level to take advantage of the perfect alignment.
 
#130
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently nobody has thought to level level level </div></div>

I bought one of these and found my money would have better been spent on toilet paper. Cheap Chinese crap...

I'm a big fan of Level, Plumb and Square and use high quality Stabila levels and a laser level in my work. The Midway, Battenfield, Wheeler, whatever level I got is trash.
 
#131
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently nobody has thought to level level level </div></div>

I bought one of these and found my money would have better been spent on toilet paper. Cheap Chinese crap...
</div></div>
Yes I have one of these too - and agree with your evaluation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a big fan of Level, Plumb and Square and use high quality Stabila levels and a laser level in my work. The Midway, Battenfield, Wheeler, whatever level I got is trash.</div></div>
Hmm... I spent some efforts mounting Vortex level on my scope correctly - and am very happy with the results. In general you can't avoid using Plumb when mounting a scope.
 
#132
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

I have two of the Vortex levels on order as well. what do you think of the quality of the bubble vial? It is after all, the heart of any level!

Seriously, I have bought, used, lost, broken, given away and retired, literally several dozen levels of various lengths and purposes over the last 30 years: Some of them high quality such as my Empires and Johnson ( http://www.johnsonlevel.com/productDetai...=24&pID=101 ) mahogany's but none of them come close to the quality and durability of my Stabilas ( http://www.stabila.com/ )

lg_type96m.jpg
 
#133
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">George won it several times without one, I was 2nd more than once without it, how do you account for the winners who didn't use it. </div></div>

Software (experience) always trumps hardware.


</div></div>

I love this quote. It doesnt matter if you have the most high speed equiptment in the world, if you havent trained on it or have the fundimentals to use it, its a nice paperweight.
 
#134
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two of the Vortex levels on order as well. what do you think of the quality of the bubble vial? It is after all, the heart of any level! </div></div>
I think it's more than adequate for the job. Worked on 308 Win and 338 Lapua - good enough for me.
smile.gif


Oh, and I check it once in a while against the plumb bob (<span style="font-style: italic">Why? Because I can, because it costs me nothing in money, time or efforts, because it makes me feel good - which is what counts.</span>) - no deviations so far.
smile.gif

 
#136
Re: Importance of bubble level in the real world

As long as your reticle is parallel with the horizon a level isn't necessary. If you make a habit of shooting off the side of hills I can definitely see the application.
 
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Flatlineops Recon level....okay to mount right up against a DNZ Game Reaper mount?
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