Imr 4064

[hlee]

Meters like crap!!! I read the sleuthing the FGMM thread and thought "I've got a lot of FGMM brass. I should just load with this recipe as FGMM shoots so well in my gun." That was a mistake. Irregularly sized sticks that stick in the thrower- then spill out all over the bench when I remove the weigh boat. Varget runs so smooth out of my charge thrower by comparison that it isn't funny. Sticks of varget seem to all weight around 0.02 grains- close enough that trickle charging all loads to within 0.02 grains is pretty easy. IMR 4064 sticks seem to vary by more than 3x in length making throwing a charge and trickling to the final weight problematic.

By the way, if you are in the Lufkin, Tx area check out Custom Guns and Ammo. They had a pretty good selection of powder and bullets when I was in there last week.

 

[918v]

RCBS Chargemaster

 

[M40_A1]

I weigh and trickle each charge, so no problems there. I can easily find single digit SD loads with 4064. Double digit SDs are the norm for Varget in my experience. (FWIW)

 

[pmclaine]

Yep. I pull to just below desired weight than trickle up to charge.

 

[JGorski]

Yeah, it's not like the SSC powders, but I didn't have any problems throwing for 50 rounds for bro in laws 30-06.

 

[hessian]

You are good (?) example of why I want a "whiner" thread.

 

[High Binder]

Mt around 0.02 grains

RCBS Chargemaster

The traitor hlee is (assuming he knows basic math (probably doesn't)) is using a scale FAR more precise than the CM1500's. The CM1500 is rated at +/- .1gr the traitor is using a scale that if far more accurate "0.02 grains" thus the long IMR4046 isn't working out so well. If I were to give hlee some advice that didn't include him sucking on a giant bag of dicks, it would be to use ball powders instead of stick powders if you want to take advantage of such an accurate scale but since he's a back stabbing traitor I'll just say "fuck you hlee".

 

[MisterTwoForty]

I have had no issues with IMR 4064. I actually find that H335 is harder to weigh in my auto charger.

 

[GhostFace]

Buy a Lee PPM, it will meter 4064 very well. It doesn't hang up or anything and is fairly accurate. I still throw short of my desired charge and trickle up. The PPM is the best $20 I have spent for reloading...

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I have had no issues with IMR 4064. I actually find that H335 is harder to weigh in my auto charger.

Never tried H335 in an auto charger but have used it a lot in both Dillon and RCBS powder measures - no other powder meters as precisely in my experience.

 

[rangeryo]

I measure my 4064 using a CM1500, to .1 gr accuracy and have no problems with it. Throw charges .3 under trickle to my target charge weight. The fact that I picked up 9 lbs of it ~ $17/lb makes it that much more awesome.

And then there are the results. Can't argue with my results especially when shooting a factory tool chatter lined Rem 700 barrel and action.
(Three shot groups fired in windy condition during load development)

 

[hlee]

Not really whining, but sharing my experience with this powder. I did get the brass loaded and my son enjoyed "helping" with bullet seating. But, I did not expect the wide variance in the stick length that I observed with this powder. My previous experience with other powders (not extensive but, there are 5 or so other extruded powders in my stash) had shown the stick length to be very consistent and the stick to stick variability in weight to be very low. Neither of these observations held true with IMR 4064. My rudimentary math skills are rudimentary but, I can tell the difference between 0.2 and 0.02. The GemPro 250 is precise to within 0.02 grains. I thought about a chargemaster but RCBS says it can take 30 sec to throw a charge and the scale is precise to 0.1 grain. It takes about that long to throw a charge on my crappy RCBS manual charge thrower (accurate to ~0.5 gr) and trickle up to within 0.02 on the GemPro.

So Highbinder, does this mean we can't be friends?

 

[Deadshot2]

IMR-4064 metering worse than Varget? Hardly thought that to be possible.

I load 90% of what I shoot using a Chargemaster so it really isn't a problem with any powder but I find that I can at least get even charge weights when just "throwing" IMR-4064 with a Uniflow. It's all a matter of just getting a rhythm that includes a good "tap" at both bottom and top of lever stroke.

With the Varget shortage I've gone to IMR 4064 and am beginning to almost lie it better than Varget. When summer comes around we'll see which one I go forward with. I go through about 20# of powder per year with my .308 loading and can actually buy IMR-4064 as needed right now. Varget? I'm thinking I might just take the last 8# jug I have to my local club and "auction it off". Might be able to finance my shooting for a whole year

 

[918v]

Not really whining, but sharing my experience with this powder. I did get the brass loaded and my son enjoyed "helping" with bullet seating. But, I did not expect the wide variance in the stick length that I observed with this powder. My previous experience with other powders (not extensive but, there are 5 or so other extruded powders in my stash) had shown the stick length to be very consistent and the stick to stick variability in weight to be very low. Neither of these observations held true with IMR 4064. My rudimentary math skills are rudimentary but, I can tell the difference between 0.2 and 0.02. The GemPro 250 is precise to within 0.02 grains. I thought about a chargemaster but RCBS says it can take 30 sec to throw a charge and the scale is precise to 0.1 grain. It takes about that long to throw a charge on my crappy RCBS manual charge thrower (accurate to ~0.5 gr) and trickle up to within 0.02 on the GemPro.

The RCBS is very stable and doesn't drift. And while it's pouring you're seating. By the time you have seated a bullet the RCBS is done.

But throwing a charge and trickling up is good too. I was going to get your scale until I read about the drifting problems.

 

[High Binder]

Not really whining, but sharing my experience with this powder. I did get the brass loaded and my son enjoyed "helping" with bullet seating. But, I did not expect the wide variance in the stick length that I observed with this powder. My previous experience with other powders (not extensive but, there are 5 or so other extruded powders in my stash) had shown the stick length to be very consistent and the stick to stick variability in weight to be very low. Neither of these observations held true with IMR 4064. My rudimentary math skills are rudimentary but, I can tell the difference between 0.2 and 0.02. The GemPro 250 is precise to within 0.02 grains. I thought about a chargemaster but RCBS says it can take 30 sec to throw a charge and the scale is precise to 0.1 grain. It takes about that long to throw a charge on my crappy RCBS manual charge thrower (accurate to ~0.5 gr) and trickle up to within 0.02 on the GemPro.

So Highbinder, does this mean we can't be friends?

Yeah, the other people responding with all this CM15000 shit are still totally missing the fact that you have a .02gr scale. I have heard of people chopping individual sticks on in order to match their desired weight. That may be a solution for you as well but as you mentioned IMR has never had consistent length sticks and that's probably because they're skinny sticks vs the fatter Varget type stick and thus more fragile. Ball powders are the only way to go in your case.

Friends? Nope.

 

[rangeryo]

Forgive me I'm a noob...

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I have heard of people chopping individual sticks on in order to match their desired weight.

I prefer to sort sticks by length into groups - each group having a .0005" length variance.

If my charge weight comes up low, and adding an additional stick makes the charge go over, I scrap the entire lot of powder.

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[918v]

Yeah, the other people responding with all this CM15000 shit are still totally missing the fact that you have a .02gr scale.

And you know this how?

And what good is a .02gr scale if it drifts all over the place?

You know, these people posting this .02gr shit are totally discounting the CM1500 is stable!

 

[CharlieNC]

Buy a Lee PPM, it will meter 4064 very well. It doesn't hang up or anything and is fairly accurate. I still throw short of my desired charge and trickle up. The PPM is the best $20 I have spent for reloading...

Second this. It operates smoother and more consistently with a wide range of powders including 4064. I must have been screwed because I spent $29 for mine!

 

[High Binder]

And you know this how?

And what good is a .02gr scale if it drifts all over the place?

You know, these people posting this .02gr shit are totally discounting the CM1500 is stable!

How do I know this? Because I can read. tratior-hlee clearly said that he has a +/-.02gr scale to which a bunch of people responded with "get a CM1500". I posted that the CM1500 only has a +/=.1gr tol. which for you math "geniuses" out there means that hlee's scale is FAR more accurate than the CM1500.

Who said anything about hlee's scale drifting?

What are you even talking about? Nobody said the CM1500 wasn't stable... That's not even the point of hlee's thread nor is stability of a scale what he was talking about. He's talking about his Lamborghini and you guys keep telling him to get a Chevy.

 

[918v]

I meant how do you know we CM1500 proponents are discounting his scale's accuracy?

It's a common fact the GemPro drifts. Google it.

It's a Lambo for sure.

 

[Steve1]

I've been loading IMR 4064 and IMR 4831 since 1960. I have an RCBS powder measure. It is possible to cut a few grains of powder in two with that powder measure. It is the only one I've used. I have no doubt there are better powder measures out there. I have had IMR 4831 bunch up in the measure and then come pouring out on the next charge. I have always dumped a charge that is light, and then trickle in the remainder with a trickler. I weigh every charge. With this method I have a safe reliable means to load. Maybe I need to buy a better powder measure....

 

[High Binder]

I meant how do you know we CM1500 proponents are discounting his scale's accuracy?

Reading comprehension is your friend, try it sometime.

 

[918v]

You're the one lacking

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Reading comprehension is your friend, try it sometime.

Dude, you should see his load development. It's awesome.

Reference post #36: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-so-what-brand-chronograph-hide-favorite.html

 

[High Binder]

You're the one lacking

Instead of spouting off with your dick sucker, go re-read this thread.

I'll summarize for you since it's not your strong suit: hlee was NOT complaining about this scale, nor did he mention any drifting of any such scale (you did that). He was simply making the point that 4064 has long sticks and that it's hard to take advantage of his scales precision with such long sticks. Then morons like you started chiming in about how he should get a CM1500 which in no way has anything to do with what he was saying especially considering the fact that he specifically said he's trying to get charges to "within 0.02 grains" which the CM1500 isn't even capable of doing.

 

[High Binder]

Dude, you should see his load development. It's awesome.

That may very well be the case but 918v's load development has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Deadshot2]

Apparently there are those who could give a crap about .02 gr accuracy in a scale and those who wouldn't load without one.

Each of those groups should go to their own corners and stop getting all butt-hurt because someone mentions a scale or powder measure they don't like. Ditto for powders too.

 

[918v]

Instead of spouting off with your dick sucker, go re-read this thread.

I'll summarize for you since it's not your strong suit: hlee was NOT complaining about this scale, nor did he mention any drifting of any such scale (you did that). He was simply making the point that 4064 has long sticks and that it's hard to take advantage of his scales precision with such long sticks. Then morons like you started chiming in about how he should get a CM1500 which in no way has anything to do with what he was saying especially considering the fact that he specifically said he's trying to get charges to "within 0.02 grains" which the CM1500 isn't even capable of doing.

I know that, oh brilliant one. While not as smart as you, I can understand what he was getting at. I just wanted to reinforce in him that ignorance is bliss. Driftless bliss.

 

[High Binder]

I know that, oh brilliant one. While not as smart as you, I can understand what he was getting at. I just wanted to reinforce in him that ignorance is bliss. Driftless bliss.

I agree with what you said here. Personally I don't think there's much benefit from loading to such a hyper degree of accuracy because lets be honest none of us can capitalize on it. There are simply too many other factors that come into play in this arena but it obviously matters to hlee otherwise he wouldn't be trying and posting this thread. My responses in this thread have been to that end even though I think it's a fool's errand but chiming in and telling him to go to a CM1500 isn't helping him at all for the reasons I stated several times in this thread and are in fact counter-productive to his end.

Now personally, I run a CM1500 and a POS Lyman1200 for my auto-chargers because they serve my purposes.

 

[JGorski]

OK guys, did a informal test with my Hornady measure and 20 throws of IMR4064. results were really not much different than what I'd get with Varget, RE15 or H4895 and alike powders. If I happened to get a slight hangup from a long stick I weighed it anyways
39.6grs-7
39.7grs-1
39.8grs-10
40grs-1
40.1grs-1
If I were loading lets say 50grs like I did the other day this would be totally acceptable, if a guy wanted to get really fussy just trickle in the last few kernals.