imr4895 or imr4064 in short 308win w/ 175 ?

granite wagon

bottle washer
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Minuteman
Jun 5, 2021
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Title ask it..

under 20" 308win barrel 11 twist. 175berger otm.

opinions and /or real data welcome & appreciated on these 2 powders !!
 
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4064 is money with the 175. I have used that combo across 4 different barrels (10 tw, 11tw and 22-24in) and had good enough results to keep on using it.
 
I get 2450 to 2500fps with 42 grains of 4064 from my 16”. I believe 4064 is the easiest powder to load in a gas gun for 308.

Here is a good starting point with 4064.
FCBD8789-D9B5-4A6E-9A5E-C824AC18260C.jpeg

This is my ocw target where I chose 42. I adjusted my seating depth to an over all coal 2.795 and my groups got tighter. Next time I’m out shooting groups I’ll take a pic, I have not shot paper in a while.
DE5692A0-AC9B-4BA8-9E55-E145AF81B1D5.jpeg
 
You get enough extra velocity with CFE 223 to justify trying it in a shorter barrel. Otherwise, I use 4064.
I would suggest staying away from this and 2000MR. These powders are slow and the muzzle report and flash are excessive in a 20” barrel.

You should have good results with either powder. 4064 loads around 42gr mirror FGMM from a few years ago but Federal is now using a different powder. 4064 has shown itself to be very temperature insensitive, especially in 308 and on the upper end of its range. If your barrel is less than 16” you may need to rethink both powder and bullet, going with a faster powder and lighter bullet.
 
I would suggest staying away from this and 2000MR. These powders are slow and the muzzle report and flash are excessive in a 20” barrel.

You should have good results with either powder. 4064 loads around 42gr mirror FGMM from a few years ago but Federal is now using a different powder. 4064 has shown itself to be very temperature insensitive, especially in 308 and on the upper end of its range. If your barrel is less than 16” you may need to rethink both powder and bullet, going with a faster powder and lighter bullet.
My experience exactly with 175/4064 and shorty 308s 16-20” bolt or semi auto. 41.8-42g gets it done.
 
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I would suggest staying away from this and 2000MR. These powders are slow and the muzzle report and flash are excessive in a 20” barrel.

You should have good results with either powder. 4064 loads around 42gr mirror FGMM from a few years ago but Federal is now using a different powder. 4064 has shown itself to be very temperature insensitive, especially in 308 and on the upper end of its range. If your barrel is less than 16” you may need to rethink both powder and bullet, going with a faster powder and lighter bullet.
Just fwiw, at 20" you are getting a nearly identical percentage of powder burnt with 42 grains of 4064 and 47 grains of cfe223, with a 168 smk. It's within 1%.

I actually load 4064 in a 20 inch bolt, and cfe223 in a 16 inch gasser, and neither is uncomfortable to shoot.
 
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"Under 20" ??, I'll quote "The Duke" from "Hondo" A man should do what he thinks is best"
You didn't say if your weapon is a "bolt gun" or a "gas gun"
Hodgdon has a load data web site and list two different data's for the 308, service rifle, meaning M-14 gas guns and 308 bolt guns
I run 42.0 of 4064 with 168's and 175/178 in my AR's and 43.0 in my Tikka, but there I can load to 2.950 for the Tikka mags.
 
"Under 20" ??, I'll quote "The Duke" from "Hondo" A man should do what he thinks is best"
You didn't say if your weapon is a "bolt gun" or a "gas gun"
Hodgdon has a load data web site and list two different data's for the 308, service rifle, meaning M-14 gas guns and 308 bolt guns
I run 42.0 of 4064 with 168's and 175/178 in my AR's and 43.0 in my Tikka, but there I can load to 2.950 for the Tikka mags.
True, but the biggest problem is that they seem to have abandoned doing service rifle loads some years ago because they haven't added a powder to it in forever.
 
not sure when Hornady put out their Service Rifle Manual, it's nice of them to do load data using an Colt AR, a SA M1A,NM and an M1 Garand. Hodgdon is limited to "their" powders, where as Hornady was only limited to their bullets.
As to the OP,as others have posted 41.5 to 42.0 of 4064. Just don't think you will get accurate loads by simply "throwing" 4064.
 
A note on my CFE/2000MR. I have shot 2000MR in my bolt 20” barrel and the comment applies for that powder. It’s slooow. I would avoid it in service rifles. CFE may well be different. My comment was based on published burn rates.
CFE is a weird powder. I think it was designed for shorter barrels in 223 and 308. It has its issues, like temp stability, and it may be a bit more blasty than some, but it can give you back all of the velocity you give up with going to a shorter barrel. I've always shot it with a can, so I don't really know if it gets crazy bad, but I see it as a way to change the compromise you are making in shortening barrel length.

N550 is even slower, and it is an ass kicking 308 powder. Never tried 2000mr. It's always out of stock!
 
when i chopped my 308 to 18in from 26 some powders did not perform well with the shorter barrel. lost a lot of velocity. IMR4064 is one that lost the least amount of speed and kept accuracy. still able to get 165/168 to 2650.
 
CFE is a weird powder. I think it was designed for shorter barrels in 223 and 308. It has its issues, like temp stability, and it may be a bit more blasty than some, but it can give you back all of the velocity you give up with going to a shorter barrel. I've always shot it with a can, so I don't really know if it gets crazy bad, but I see it as a way to change the compromise you are making in shortening barrel length.

N550 is even slower, and it is an ass kicking 308 powder. Never tried 2000mr. It's always out of stock!
To that point you do pick up a fair amount of velocity with 2000MR. As I recall I was getting on the order of 100 fps but I wasn’t look for additional velocity.
 
CFE is a weird powder. I think it was designed for shorter barrels in 223 and 308. It has its issues, like temp stability, and it may be a bit more blasty than some, but it can give you back all of the velocity you give up with going to a shorter barrel. I've always shot it with a can, so I don't really know if it gets crazy bad, but I see it as a way to change the compromise you are making in shortening barrel length.

N550 is even slower, and it is an ass kicking 308 powder. Never tried 2000mr. It's always out of stock!
I tried CFE 223 under 150fmj, 168eldm and 175 smk with federal 210 primers. I could never get it to group well. Looking down the bore after a few shots it seemed to leave small flakes of what I presume is unburt powder. Somthing I never saw with stick powders. On the plus side it meters very easy in a powder thrower, wish I could get it figured out.

4064 has worked well and been accurate with 168 and 175 using a 16” barrel. So far out if powders I can find locally its my preferred.