Rifle Scopes In Hand Sightron S-tac 2.5-17.5x56. Update on CS and performance

[fdkay]

Folks,
I have in hand the new S-Tac.
I will tell you a few things right now, hopefully I'll be able to get it mounted this weekend and wring it out a bit.

What's in the box?
Scope in a black fabric bag.
One scope (they never accidentally put two in a box)
Flip up caps
1 battery
Torx tool
lens cloth

First thing, this is a SFP scope, so that will automatically disqualify this from many folks list.

My intention on purchasing this scope was to put it on my duty rifle as I wanted some of the features this scope possesses, which brings me to point two.

This scope is made in the Philippines, which immediately disqualifies it from duty use, as a matter of fact, I would not have purchased it had I known it was made it in the Philippines.

The scope has a nice, flat finish that seems to be very even.

56mm is NOT the outside diameter of the objective bell, but the actual diameter of the lens, objective diameter is 65mm.

This model is mil/mil, with their version of the MP-8 reticle, though the lines and dot are much finer (a benefit of SFP) they have an moa/moa available.

The reticle has illumination, only the dot is illuminated. There is an "off" position between each setting, another excellent feature.

All adjustment's have very nice, agressive knurling.

5 mils per turn, clicks are firm, audible and tactile. They are in a word, excellent.

Focus is firm, but very smooth. Focus range is 10 yards to infinity (very nice).

Mag ring is also firm but smooth, mag setting can NOT be seen from behind the rifle.

Comes with a very decent set of flip up caps, probably better than the new butler creek.

Weight is advertised at 30 ounces, length is 14.5 inches, elevation advertised as 23.2 mils (about 80.5 moa)

I will not comment on glass until I can get it mounted as I want to give it the best opportunity.

I'm attaching some bad pics.

 

[sulcop96]

Please get back to us when you can. Have been interested and they have very good LE prices, but we were looking at the 1-7 for our DMR guys. One question though, why would made in the PI disqualify it for department use? Just curious, we run NF on our duty guns but like the 1-7 range, features and price of the S-TAC and in all the research I have done through NTOA and our NETOA I have never come across anything that would cause a liability issue so is this more a quality concern or are we missing something as far a standards?

Sully

 

[fdkay]

You aren't "missing" anything. It is a trust issue.
I mistakenly thought that their scopes were made in Japan.
I have been rather vocal that the Philippines does many things well, making riflescopes isn't one of them, which is why I wouldn't run a PST (and they HAVE had some reliability issues when used hard). I carry a made in the PI 1911 on duty that I am extremely happy with and that has been 100% reliable, but I do not trust their optics.

 

[sulcop96]

Got it. And agree on the PST, had one on a personal rifle and would never take it on a call out. Just assumed it was a lower end product and not a tie in with PI made optics but I see the point. Just wanted to make sure I had not missed anything on LE optics selection. In fact I can find very little on the issue other then "quality" being thrown around. Quality means different things to different people so we decided on NF as the standard. Anyway, back on point, look forward to the range report.

Sully

 

[Tikka260]

Made in the Philippines?? Wtf?? This and the fact that they ripped off Nightforce styling cues has made me lose all respect and further use for this company. I'm now an embarrassed owner of their products.

 

[fdkay]

Made in the Philippines?? Wtf?? This and the fact that they ripped off Nightforce styling cues has made me lose all respect and further use for this company. I'm now an embarrassed owner of their products.

I'm sure their target was the now discontinued NXS 3.5-15x56.
My photo's turned out really shitty, it is a decent looking scope and yes, they borrowed heavily from Nightforce.
Doesn't bother me at all, as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, just wish it was made in Japan like the NXS.

I'm definitely going to give this scope a fair shake. It has many worthy attributes and only time will tell on it's robustness.

 

[6brshooter]

I had one of the s3 with exposed knobs, it was a 6-24 moa2 model. I felt glass was inderior to my 3 8-32 models. Also, while the ele&win knobs looked beefy they weren't. Under neath that big stout knob is just attached to skinny, spindly shaft(1/8-3/16"). The capped target knobs were atleast locked onto a large drum. Care to take a knob off and snap a pic?

 

[fdkay]

Did receive some correspondence from Sightron.
The SIII and SII Big Sky series are made in Japan.
S-TAC, SII and the SIH series are made in the Philippines.
All their products are Japanese designed.

To their credit, the folks at Sightron have been very pleasant and extremely helpful.

I will continue to do business with them.

 

[fdkay]

Some higher quality pics:

 

[fdkay]

One more photo, methinks robust enough:

 

[rockbox]

I'm curious about the glass. It may be coincidence, but there is big difference between the glass quality from Japan (SIII, SII big sky) versus the Philippines(SI, SII).

 

[scudzuki]

The difference in glass has to do with the model line not where they are assembled.
The SIII has better glass, is assembled in Japan, and costs the most, just like Vortex Razors.

Joe

 

[6brshooter]

Thanks fdkay, yep they definitely improved that design over the first gen exposed knob that i had. Is the knob and adjustment drum splined? The other problem i had with mine was the knob just sat on the skinny post, no splines. When the single screw on top was tightened down and the knob was handheld, the adjustment shaft would turn. It resulted in much frustration trying to zero knobs out. I appreciate ur clarification to my questions. Also, does the fast focus eyepiece seem solid? Mine had quite abit of slop to it, my 8-32s were all tight with no slop though. The part of the fast focus that u screwed in would move in a circular motion and reticle shift occurred.

 

[fdkay]

There are no splines, so, regrettably, it may be a bit challenging to tighten the screw without turning the adjustment.
I will say, the "clicks" are pretty awesome.
I turned the fast focus a few times and watched for canted reticle, I did not see any movement, I also went through the zoom and did not notice a shift in the reticle there either.
The parallax adjustment is VERY firm but smooth. I would rather have it that way then too easy to turn. Same for the mag ring.

All in all, it appears to be a very well made scope.

I just got my rings in today, I should be able to get to the range tomorrow, weather permitting.

My rifle is in an XLR chassis, I bought EGW high rings and have just a bit of room between the fore end and the objective bell with lens cap installed.

 

[LibertyOptics]

There are no splines, so, regrettably, it may be a bit challenging to tighten the screw without turning the adjustment.
I will say, the "clicks" are pretty awesome.
I turned the fast focus a few times and watched for canted reticle, I did not see any movement, I also went through the zoom and did not notice a shift in the reticle there either.
The parallax adjustment is VERY firm but smooth. I would rather have it that way then too easy to turn. Same for the mag ring.

All in all, it appears to be a very well made scope.

+1

I agree with your assessment totally, we took delivery of these yesterday, I too was surprised at the Phillipines manufacture but the scope does seem very well built. It has the same ExacTrack and lens coatings as the SIII series.

The focus/mag knobs are indeed quite tight, and the knobs will please all that desire that "breaking glass rod" sensation and sound.

We will match bona fide LE pricing.

Scott

 

[fdkay]

Managed to get to the range and run some tests.
Scope was mounted in EGW high rings, cap screws torqued to 15 in-lbs, cross bolt screws torqued to 65 in-lbs.
It was a bright, sunny day with a light breeze.
Glass appeared clear edge to edge, I didn't spend a lot of time evaluating the glass as that is subjective. It did not resolve as well as my IOR 3-18, but we are talking a different price bracket here. It was certainly functional.

Everything else applies. Smooth matte finish that is even over the body of the scope. Turrets are crisp, audible and tactile. I did take the scope outside at night and look around (unmounted), I have quite a bit of ambient light in the area, so it was not a challenge to see with the scope. The rather fine reticle did disappear in the dark, but the lighted center dot showed up VERY well without overpowering the view.

The reticle design is very nice and the illumination is very well done.

My main gripe with the design of the scope is the size of the objective lens, it is enormous. I would much rather have a 50mm objective.

I began by getting a 100 yard zero. I then struggled with resetting the turrets.
This, actually, was no fault of the scope or the design. I had fiddle farted with the turrets at the house last week to snap a few photo's, when I put the caps back on, I tightened them far more than required. A light snugging down is all that is required and I got a bit carried away.

Once I got that done, I had to expend another round or two to finalize my zero as I had accidently turned the adjustment while removing the caps, I shot a box test.

I shot a 2 mil box test. Starting in the lower left corner, I fired 2 rounds, came up 2 mils and fired 2 more. Those two shots were exactly where they were supposed to be. It also measured out with the reticle at 17.5x. I then came right 2 mils, again, right on the money, again, measured out. I then came down 2 mils. Those two rounds impacted 1/2 mil low. I then came left 2 mils. The rounds impacted 2 mils left, still 1/2 mil low.

I moved to a new target, fired another round to verify I was 1/2 mil low, came up 5 clicks and rezeroed the turret (much easier and problem free since I didn't ape fist them). I fired another round to confirm zero, cranked 5 mils elevation, then returned to zero and fired another round. Again, 1/2 mil low.

Failure on the tracking test.

Going up, spot on, windage left and right, spot on, coming back down, not so much.

So, I'll be testing the warranty on this scope, I will have to pay shipping to get it there which I am not thrilled about.

 

[BigRso]

Managed to get to the range and run some tests.
Scope was mounted in EGW high rings, cap screws torqued to 15 in-lbs, cross bolt screws torqued to 65 in-lbs.
It was a bright, sunny day with a light breeze.
Glass appeared clear edge to edge, I didn't spend a lot of time evaluating the glass as that is subjective. It did not resolve as well as my IOR 3-18, but we are talking a different price bracket here. It was certainly functional.

Everything else applies. Smooth matte finish that is even over the body of the scope. Turrets are crisp, audible and tactile. I did take the scope outside at night and look around (unmounted), I have quite a bit of ambient light in the area, so it was not a challenge to see with the scope. The rather fine reticle did disappear in the dark, but the lighted center dot showed up VERY well without overpowering the view.

The reticle design is very nice and the illumination is very well done.

My main gripe with the design of the scope is the size of the objective lens, it is enormous. I would much rather have a 50mm objective.

I began by getting a 100 yard zero. I then struggled with resetting the turrets.
This, actually, was no fault of the scope or the design. I had fiddle farted with the turrets at the house last week to snap a few photo's, when I put the caps back on, I tightened them far more than required. A light snugging down is all that is required and I got a bit carried away.

Once I got that done, I had to expend another round or two to finalize my zero as I had accidently turned the adjustment while removing the caps, I shot a box test.

I shot a 2 mil box test. Starting in the lower left corner, I fired 2 rounds, came up 2 mils and fired 2 more. Those two shots were exactly where they were supposed to be. It also measured out with the reticle at 17.5x. I then came right 2 mils, again, right on the money, again, measured out. I then came down 2 mils. Those two rounds impacted 1/2 mil low. I then came left 2 mils. The rounds impacted 2 mils left, still 1/2 mil low.

I moved to a new target, fired another round to verify I was 1/2 mil low, came up 5 clicks and rezeroed the turret (much easier and problem free since I didn't ape fist them). I fired another round to confirm zero, cranked 5 mils elevation, then returned to zero and fired another round. Again, 1/2 mil low.

Failure on the tracking test.

Going up, spot on, windage left and right, spot on, coming back down, not so much.

So, I'll be testing the warranty on this scope, I will have to pay shipping to get it there which I am not thrilled about.

I had high hopes as I was considering this optic for my AR platform. Super Disappointed ,Thank you and please keep us posted on warranty and if replacement gives any other issues.

 

[selfbowhunter]

that is not good to hear. above most other scopes I have ever had, I trust the tracking on a sightron sIII the most. they have always been perfect through MANY examples. I sincerely hope this is an isolated incident. also, I am very disappointed to hear some models are not made in japan anymore. initially, even the regular pre big sky sII was made in japan. I have had several through the years.

chuck

 

[jsthntn247]

Well, my favorite scope company has gone to piss. Great news.

 

[fdkay]

Well, my favorite scope company has gone to piss. Great news.

Not sure how you made that leap?
The scope in question is not a POS, it just didn't track correctly.
This happens to all manufacturers at one time or another.

My intent was certainly not to bash the company, they have been very straightforward and answered all of my questions.
I have only been attempting to provide information.
They still make an excellent product, I have a pair of SIII bino's that I am absolutely thrilled with.

 

[DIBBS]

Any new information-updates on the scope/warranty/replacement?

 

[fdkay]

No news yet, though not surprising.
I didn't mail it till the day before Christmas, they were out that week (USPS attempted to deliver Friday after Christmas). Then New Years.
Spoke to them on Monday, 06Jan. Tech's still had it in the shop.

I asked for either a refund or replacement with an SIII 6-24x50 that actually comes in about 5 dollars less than this scope (not illuminated, SFP mil/mil).
I did not get an answer to that request.
We will see. Plan on calling them again Monday for an update, I am NOT in a hurry, just curious.
I have been pleased so far with all of my correspondence with them and I will not be upset if they won't trade for the SIII.
I really do not want the S TAC back though.

 

[JAAM12]

I call sightron today about this scope. They said it was producted in Japan. Does the model have Philippines marked on it?

Regards

 

[fdkay]

I call sightron today about this scope. They said it was producted in Japan. Does the model have Philippines marked on it?

Regards

The S Tac series is made in the philippines.
Only the SIII and SII Big Sky are made in Japan.
Scope is labeled as Made in Philippines. Verified through Sightron concerning what scopes are made in Japan.

 

[JAAM12]

Yep I contacted Sightron again and you are right. The S-TACs are made in the PI so I order the FFP 6x24 instead, but, I like the STAC conf better. I got two of them to have matching scopes on my 300 win mags.

Regards

 

[Jumper]

I've had mine for almost a month now. I've mounted and shot it out to 100yds only once because its been so DAMN COLD! I did do a quasi box test with it from inside with the rifle stationary on a bipod. I put the cross hairs on a solid reference point about 600yds away and dialed up ~2 mils, right 2, down 2 and left 2 and it was exactly back to where I had started. I like the knobs, the illumination and the 2fp reticle. The center dot in the reticle is great! Its just personal preference but it makes precise shots easier for me. The power ring is pretty stiff. The eye box was a little tighter than my old PH 3-15. I thought I would notice it more but when I actually used it I didnt even think about it until after I was done and double checked the power setting to make sure I was on 17x. It was not an issue at all when I actually got out and used it. The glass is bright and clear. I have a projector that will project a grid of green lines (its to help square up the projector with the screen). I looked through the scope at the grid looking for any curvature of the grid lines at the edges of the scopes field of view. There was none that I could detect. I checked color reproduction through it to with another test screen. I was very surprised that there was absolutely no difference in color shades looking at the screen through the scope and then without the scope. None. I wish the reticle had the major mil graduations numbered like my Vortex. And I wish it had zero-stops.

I think the scope is a good value. It has good glass, a reticle I like, good controls, a good power range and, should have solid tracking.

 

[Jumper]

Reticle pics

I tried to take a few pics through the scope to give some idea of the reticle, field of view etc. And also because I like looking at pics of scopes other members have posted.

The first two are perspective shots taken with my cell phone which has a 13MP camera. Both subjects were across fields of blowing snow and its obvious from the pics conditions were poor at times. Its also my first time attempting to photograph a subject through a scope.
The first pic is of a horse trailer at 711yds, from inside looking through a double pane window and screen:



The second is of a new construction house 551yds away. Look for the blue styrofoam insulation under the tree branch:




Reticle pics to follow...

 

[Jumper]

Reticle pics cont...

Horse trailer, 711yds 10x:


17.5x



New construction house, 551yds, 6x:



17.5x

 

[Tonele6]

May be a silly question but have any of you used the scope in low light?
Regards Toni

 

[fdkay]

Okay, I finally got my scope back from Sightron, on 03 Feb.
I am going to give Sightron's CS a B-.
I had to pay shipping to them on a brand new scope, it had only been mounted and it failed the tracking test.
I wouldn't mind paying shipping if I had it for a while, or lost the receipt, so that knocked them down a peg.
My pet peeve is they ship UPS, which adds 4 or 5 days shipping time as compared to USPS, but I can live with it.
I mailed them the scope, via USPS on 24 December, when you consider that they did not work on Christmas day, they still attempted delivery on Friday, 27 December. 3 days, pretty damn good in my book. When they shipped it back, UPS had it in hand and enroute on Monday, 27 Jan and did not deliver until Mon 03 Feb at 20:30.

Sightron had the scope in hand on 30 Jan. I waited a couple of weeks, then called to check on status. It was still in back for testing and repair.
Fair enough, I don't want them to rush, but since they don't give you a return ticket, I didn't want them to forget about me.
I waited for another 10 or so days and called them back towards the end of the week. Got the answer "It appears to be finished and boxed up, they will ship it when they get back from SHOT Show".
That was kind of a WTF?, why didn't they ship it before they left?
So I gave them another week + the weekend and called for a tracking number.
Oh, it will be shipped today. So they fucking sat on it for a week and a half after they originally told me it would ship.
True to their word, they shipped it that day, but I had to wait for the incompetent fucks at UPS to deliver it.
In actuality, not a bad turn around time, about six weeks, when you consider there were holidays and shot show involved.

So, on the the good part.
I open the box, there is a note that said they fixed the windage and elevation, but nothing about what was wrong with it.
They also said they cleaned the lenses and reset it to factory configuration (mechanical zero).
They did not zero the turrets, so I spun the elevation back to zero.

Got to the range today, put a target up at 25 yards, fired one shot, it was on paper and near enough o POA to move to 100.
Went to 100, got it dialed in with no issues and reset the elevation turret.

Just a word about the turrets. It has been mentioned already, but should be mentioned again. The turret caps are not splined. It is wonderful that you can line up marks and never be off, but it can be a pain to loosen and tighten without changing the settings. I would rather have the grub screws that tighten down from the side, but I CAN live with it, it is just an inconvenience.

I did not shoot a complete box test as the adjustments seemed to be working fine but once I had a zero, I dialed in 2 mils elevation then returned to zero and fired a shot, impact was exactly where it should be (it originally failed this).

I then dialed in 1.5 mils below zero, returned to zero and fired another round. Bang, exactly where it belonged.

I continued my range session with no issues at all. We shall see how it holds up and if it maintains zero.

So, my thoughts in closing:
I am pleased with this scope. Not overwhelmed, but pleased. It does appear very well made, Sightron folks told me that they actually own the facility in the Philippines in order to have more control over quality.
The glass is good, not great. It does not "pop" when you look through it. It presents a clear picture but does not resolve as well as my IOR 3-18. It is just kind of flat, it is there, it is usable, it does the job.
It focuses down to 10 yards, a big plus in my book, as my IOR is lucky to focus at 50.
The clicks are awesome. There is NO doubt when you make an adjustment.
It has some idiosyncrasies, such as the way the turret caps are attached that could be improved on and I wish it had a 50mm objective vice the huge 56mm.
I think this scope is a winner, though probably priced a little higher than it should be.