Rifle Scopes In need of honest opinions for some old man eyes...

[z71rat]

I have owned and used many different rifle scopes over the last several years. I have owned Vortex HD's and non, Nightforce NXS and ATACRs, Bushnell DMR2s, SWFA HD's and non, and the list goes on and on...

I am currently running a Vortex PST Gen2 5-25, as my eyes are needing the extra magnification, but the clarity just ain't cuttin it. I am still shooting well, but it could be better. During my last match, there was a target set out at 862 yards, and I literally could not see the plate at all. I could see the frame, and the chains holding the plate, but no actual target. I ended up shooting to where the plate "should" have been, and made contact on my second round down the tube.

Obviously, I am looking at going back to the HD glass. So here is where the opinions should come into play... I can't afford what I am really wanting, so I have narrowed the long list back down to two different scopes, and I am sitting at a crossroads on which way to go. The two scopes are both Vortex. First scope, since I have previously owned one, is the Vortex Gen2 HD 4.5-27. The second scope, is the Vortex AMG HD 6-24. Therein lies my dilemma.

Which one would you choose, and why? I can't afford the Kahles that I am REALLY wanting, so there are my two choices. Honest field use opinions please!!

DK

 

[BullGear]

Corrective lenses shooting glasses. Made a big difference for me.

 

[z71rat]

I have tried glasses, and they will only get me so far. I wear contacts every day, the convenience is something that I have grown used too. My glasses and contacts both have astigmatism correction (in my shooting eye of course), so I really call that part a wash. Thanks though!

DK

 

[BullGear]

Good luck. I really know the pains of growing old and still wanting to shoot. My time at the range has declined over the years just because of my sight. It's tough when the brain wants it but the body says not so fast old man......

 

[z71rat]

I am getting there quick, much much quicker than I had hoped. Cataract development isn't helping either... :/

DK

 

[christopher.dow]

8<
Obviously, I am looking at going back to the HD glass. So here is where the opinions should come into play... I can't afford what I am really wanting, so I have narrowed the long list back down to two different scopes, and I am sitting at a crossroads on which way to go. The two scopes are both Vortex. First scope, since I have previously owned one, is the Vortex Gen2 HD 4.5-27. The second scope, is the Vortex AMG HD 6-24. Therein lies my dilemma.

Which one would you choose, and why? I can't afford the Kahles that I am REALLY wanting, so there are my two choices. Honest field use opinions please!!

DK

I have the Razor Gen II and tha AMG. They’re on the two rifles I took to the range last weekend. I started with the rifle that has the Gen II, and when I switched to the rifle with the AMG, I was very surprised at how much clearer the AMG was. I would go with the AMG.

I don’t consider myself an old man, but I definitely have more yesterdays than tomorrows.

 

[z71rat]

Nice! Slight lean was to the AMG, simply due to the huge weight difference. So that is exactly the directional bump that I was looking for.

Thanks for the side by side comparison! Now I just can't seem to find the "deals" on the AMG like I did a few months ago. Sellin one? LOL

DK

 

[USMC 308]

Are you sure staying at essentially the same magnification is going to do the trick? I've looked through a PST Gen 2 and owned an AMG. Never did a side by side comparison but recall the PST glass being nice and bright and very clear. AMG glass was very good too but I would not say its drastically better than the PST Gen 2.

What I found my "mature" eyes liked was a little more magnification. Had the AMG on a bolt gun and an Athlon Cronus BTR on a gas gun. When I switched from 1 gun to the other, I always noticed how I preferred the Cronus glass over the AMG. Just a little more magnification (29x) made a big difference and I don't think the AMG glass was better than the Cronus glass.....IMO. I did do a side by side between the two and could not see one being superior to the other. I've looked through a Burris XTR and clearly noticed the inferior glass. Cronus BTR and AMG was a wash to me. I sold the AMG and bought a 2nd Cronus BTR and pocketed the difference.

If your budget allows, a NF ATACR at 35x might serve you well.

 

[steve123]

That's tough one and I wish I had an answer. Even with a S&B 5-25 I can't see where half the misses go but I'm on 15x a good portion of the time for the bigger FOV. I've had some holdover stages which I expected to win and couldn't locate the targets which makes me cuss.

Recently I've been trying out my wife's March 5-40x56. I can see better but the FOV is so small I'd be going back and forth to the mag ring for every shot which would eat up too much time.

 

[samnev]

I am getting there quick, much much quicker than I had hoped. Cataract development isn't helping either... :/

DK

That makes 2 of us.

 

[CSTactical]

Nice! Slight lean was to the AMG, simply due to the huge weight difference. So that is exactly the directional bump that I was looking for.

Thanks for the side by side comparison! Now I just can't seem to find the "deals" on the AMG like I did a few months ago. Sellin one? LOL

DK

We have some great options for you right now, we have a Factory Demo Kahles K624i 6-24x56 AMR reticle for $2,274 and the Vortex AMG's are also a great choice as well. Feel free to call us at 916-670-1103 and we'd be happy to guide you to the scope you need.

 

[christopher.dow]

At least with cataracts you can get new lenses installed in your eyes. Everyone I know who’s had that surgery is really pleased with the results.

 

[tbs]

You really need to get to an opthamologist and find out whats going on. A million dollar scope won't help if your eyes are bad or have developed cataracts. Been there, done that!

 

[G17C]

Just for grins and giggles, try adjusting the diopter to see if you can get a sharp reticle with no corrective lenses. If so, you should be able to focus the scope on the target. I have found this works much better for my 64 year old eyes than trying the same while wearing glasses.

 

[z71rat]

We have some great options for you right now, we have a Factory Demo Kahles K624i 6-24x56 AMR reticle for $2,274 and the Vortex AMG's are also a great choice as well. Feel free to call us at 916-670-1103 and we'd be happy to guide you to the scope you need.

Do you take almost brand new scopes in on trade? Vortex PST G2 5-25 FFP MRAD

DK

 

[z71rat]

I will give that a shot. Hadn’t even thought about tryin that. We will “see”!! LOL

DK

Just for grins and giggles, try adjusting the diopter to see if you can get a sharp reticle with no corrective lenses. If so, you should be able to focus the scope on the target. I have found this works much better for my 64 year old eyes than trying the same while wearing glasses.

 

[z71rat]

My eyes just turned 54, and it was good to win my match! I counted it as my birthday present to myself!! LOL

DK

 

[CSTactical]

Do you take almost brand new scopes in on trade? Vortex PST G2 5-25 FFP MRAD

DK

We might be able to work something out, please call 916-670-1103

 

[awp762]

I tried adjusting my diopter without using my glasses. I found out that I was almost completely out of diopter adjustment, maybe 1/16 of a turn left so this option is out for me. What I've found out is that different scopes coatings or the way they are built make a huge difference for me. My biggest issue is contrast for my eyes as I have gotten older. I used a friends vortex Gen2 HD 4.5-27 & could barely see small rocks under the overhang at our outdoor range at 100 yds no matter how I adjusted the scope/diopter. He switched to a Minox & I could see those rocks clearly. I then tried a Steiner military 4-16X & I could see the rocks much better than the Vortex but not as good as my S&B 5-25. I could see those rocks with a 1" tube 4-12x Swarovski. So what this tells me is that the coatings or the way they are built has an effect on my eyes. As a side note my friend could see those rocks with all of the scopes listed above.

 

[Rthur]

Been here done this.
Kahles gen 3 was good.
Minox Zp 5 even better.
Compared to a friends Top example of a S&B.
Felt like someone turned the lights back on and focused the TV.

R

 

[Wildfire1550]

Was having similar issues with my old scope, switched to S&B and it helped a ton

 

[Threadcutter308]

Been here done this.
Kahles gen 3 was good.
Minox Zp 5 even better.
Compared to a friends Top example of a S&B.
Felt like someone turned the lights back on and focused the TV.

R

Agreed. ZP5 Glass is stunning. Crystal clear and no CA.

Also agree on cataract surgery, I've had both eyes done. The best part of getting the surgery done is that the old, cloudy, worn out, sepia toned biological lens is replaced with a crystal clear plastic lens. After I had my first one done, i was absolutely stunned at how clear and bright everything was. And, it also caused me to kind of kick myself for waiting as long as I did to get it done. Look for a surgeon that knocks you out and is just finishing up as you come out of the anethesia. Knowing what I know now, cataract surgery is easier than getting your teeth cleaned, only takes about 5 minutes and if you're under anethesia, you miss all but about 20 seconds of it.

 

[5RWill]

Within the budget and the list I’d go amg. Mainly because i don’t like the weight associated with the gen II razor.

It’s to note IIRC in Bills review of the pst gen II that he initially wrote off the clarity is okay and being worse than the DMR II. He then went and adjusted the diopter and got the clarity he was looking for. Which was very good for the money. I would second that having owned most of the elite tactical lineup the gen II pst is a lot of glass for the money. I’m not trying to sway you from your decision, just don’t want you to spend all the money to realize it was a diopter issue if that’s the case.

As to the kahles as 624i the classfields are about to be flooded with them due to the new release if i had to guess. There were a couple new or slightly used for 2500 last i checked.

 

[Rthur]

Agreed. ZP5 Glass is stunning. Crystal clear and no CA.

Also agree on cataract surgery, I've had both eyes done. The best part of getting the surgery done is that the old, cloudy, worn out, sepia toned biological lens is replaced with a crystal clear plastic lens. After I had my first one done, i was absolutely stunned at how clear and bright everything was. And, it also caused me to kind of kick myself for waiting as long as I did to get it done. Look for a surgeon that knocks you out and is just finishing up as you come out of the anethesia. Knowing what I know now, cataract surgery is easier than getting your teeth cleaned, only takes about 5 minutes and if you're under anethesia, you miss all but about 20 seconds of it.

I'm all ears, what did it set you back to knock them out?

R

 

[Threadcutter308]

I'm all ears, what did it set you back to knock them out?

R

I assume you mean the cataracts (not the ZP5's). Not sure of cost, I have great insurance through work, never saw the bill for either eye. I don't think I even had to pay a deductible. I'm guessing if you self funded, it'd be $5K each side, but that's a pretty un-educated guess. If I am understanding your question correctly, call some of the specialty surgical centers and get a ballpark estimate. But, if you need it, don't wait like I did. It is life changing and I shouldn't have suffered through it as long as I did. That's all my fault. Most of the reason was that I was just being a pussy. I was scared to death of any surgery or any hospital. Since then, I have experienced a complete, 180 reversal of opinion on it. If I had to do it again, I'd be all over it immediately. Lightning quick procedure, no hospital, easy and zero pain. The surgeons doing these procedures do them all the time and have gotten to be quite good and very efficient at it.

Hmmm, based on this, I might not be that far off ($5K/side);

https://www.reference.com/health/mu...d?aq=cost+of+cataracts+surgery&qo=cdpArticles

 

[Rthur]

I assume you mean the cataracts (not the ZP5's). Not sure of cost, I have great insurance through work, never saw the bill for either eye. I don't think I even had to pay a deductible. I'm guessing if you self funded, it'd be $5K each side, but that's a pretty un-educated guess. If I am understanding your question correctly, call some of the specialty surgical centers and get a ballpark estimate. But, if you need it, don't wait like I did. It is life changing and I shouldn't have suffered through it as long as I did. That's all my fault. Most of the reason was that I was just being a pussy. I was scared to death of any surgery or any hospital. Since then, I have experienced a complete, 180 reversal of opinion on it. If I had to do it again, I'd be all over it immediately. Lightning quick procedure, easy and zero pain. The surgeons doing these procedures do them all the time and have gotten to be quite good and efficient at it.

Hmmm, based on this, I might not be that far off ($5K/side);

https://www.reference.com/health/mu...d?aq=cost+of+cataracts+surgery&qo=cdpArticles

Not so much cataracts as much as lense tuneup as my correction is to great for lasix.
Like -9.50 on right and -9.00 on left.
We may be talking about apples and oranges.

R

 

[Threadcutter308]

Not so much cataracts as much as lense tuneup as my correction is to great for lasix.
Like -9.50 on right and -9.00 on left.
We may be talking about apples and oranges.

R

Sounds like that might be the case....

 

[z71rat]

Well, I had a chance to get behind a few different pieces of glass this morning, and tried them all throughout the day. As much as I love the look of the ATACR, I won’t be getting another one. I definitely can’t/won’t be spending the funds for the 7-35.

I still liked the 3-18 and 4.5-27 Gen2’s, but holy crap they are a heavy assed tank!! The clarity actually wasn’t what I remembered it to be either.

I lost faith in my DMR2i due to tracking issues. My buddies ERS is a nice scope, seems to track decent, but I now have a huge mental block against it, so that’s out.

Even though I loved the Kahles, I am now in the driver’s seat and dedicated to gettin my hands on, and bolt an AMG to my comp rifle. Even as it was headin closer to dark, I could see all the targets out to 700 yards really clear. And I love the fact that it’s a 50mm objective and a 30mm tune, so I don’t have to swap out my Seekins either!! HUGE plus in my book!!

Thanks to everyone for giving their insights into my dilemma. The cataracts will have to wait a bit longer, and I know things will only be that much better once that happens!!

@Mike - CSTactical, I’ll be calling you soon!!

DK

 

[Michael Hinshaw]

Agreed. ZP5 Glass is stunning. Crystal clear and no CA.

Also agree on cataract surgery, I've had both eyes done. The best part of getting the surgery done is that the old, cloudy, worn out, sepia toned biological lens is replaced with a crystal clear plastic lens. After I had my first one done, i was absolutely stunned at how clear and bright everything was. And, it also caused me to kind of kick myself for waiting as long as I did to get it done. Look for a surgeon that knocks you out and is just finishing up as you come out of the anethesia. Knowing what I know now, cataract surgery is easier than getting your teeth cleaned, only takes about 5 minutes and if you're under anethesia, you miss all but about 20 seconds of it.

I’ll add my 2 cents. Was going to quit shooting until I had my eye operation. Now turning 85 and back as strong as ever. It’s a good choice but can be expensive.

 

[z71rat]

I have no doubt that it will be expensive. Which is another reason I decided to go the AMG route, vs. the Kahles 5-25. I will be gettin both of these situations taken care of as soon as possible!!

DK

 

[CSTactical]

@Mike - CSTactical, I’ll be calling you soon!!

DK

We are here!