Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

Ferox

Private
Minuteman
Aug 27, 2009
5
0
53
Seattle, WA
All -

I am looking for suggestions from those that have experience with the SR-25 (308 win). Specifically, I need a barrier round that will feed well, retain a high percentage of mass after passing through residential/auto glass, and is capable of MOA accuracy.

I've been told to try and stay away from Federal brass and I have first hand experience with polymer tips breaking off and getting stuck in the lugs. But I'm still open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance for your responses.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

I would think someone that "needed" that type of round would have plenty of people around him that would be able to make an intelligent recommendation. You should establish yourself and justify your "need" before asking your first question that has lethal implications written all over it.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would think someone that "needed" that type of round would have plenty of people around him that would be able to make an intelligent recommendation. You should establish yourself and justify your "need" before asking your first question that has lethal implications written all over it. </div></div>

Not necessarily. I shoot with a lot of cops, and you'd be surprised at the resources some have and others do not. Many times they just shoot what they're given and those who gave it had no clue!
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

There is one company that makes two specialty rounds for penetration. One for glass and one for everything else. Brass is hard and rides through AR-10 type rifles with no problem. Accuracy is 1/2 moa in a good bolt gun. Accuracy in SR-25 will depend on the SR-25.

If you are interested in more info, PM me (or email [email protected] ) your L.E. contact info with a desk number and your agency email. I will be glad to forward you links and other info for direct ordering.

None of this is nuclear secrets but we all should practice due responsibility with our info.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19878

This is an excerpt from that link:


Glass barriers are one of the most difficult challenges for LE snipers. OTM bullets like the SMK’s generally exhibit unfavorable fragmentation and trajectory deviation when fired through glass intermediate barriers, resulting in degradation of terminal wounding effects. Despite gunstore commando lore to the contrary, FMJ bullet terminal performance is extremely erratic against glass. Bonded JSP/PT bullets and true AP bullets like M993 are often able to defeat glass intermediate barriers while retaining their mass, although they exhibit very deep penetration in soft tissue and can be counted upon to exit the suspect and pose a downrange hazard. In addition, they are not always as accurate as other bullet designs. PT bullets, like the Hornady AMAX and Nosler Ballistic Tip, offer better performance against glass than OTM bullets like the SMK, but are not the equal of bonded JSP/PT bullets or AP bullets. The Federal Tactical load using the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw JSP offers superb terminal performance in both unobstructed shots, as well as those through intermediate; it is the most tried and tested barrier blind load, however, accuracy is typically in the 1.5-3 MOA range. Newer barrier blind loads like the BH loaded 180 gr Nosler Accubond bonded PT load offer sub-MOA accuracy along with outstanding terminal performance in both soft tissue and glass. Because of their deep penetration characteristics, plan that barrier blind loads will likely exit the target, so be aware of the backstop. Currently the best .308 glass barrier loads are the Federal Tactical using the 165 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw JSP, Black Hills loaded 180 gr Nosler Accubond PT, Nosler 150 & 165 gr Partition, Remington loaded Swift Scirocco II 150 & 165 gr bonded PT, Swift A-Frame 165 gr JSP, Remington Core Lokt Ultra Bonded 150 & 180 gr JSP, Hornady Interbond PT, as well as Barnes Triple Shock & MRX; all create similar deep penetrating wound profiles. Be aware that while the Barnes all copper TSX bullets are great projectiles and offer good penetration through barriers, when first hitting a laminated automobile windshield intermediate barrier, the TSX bullets exhibit less expansion than other “barrier blind” loads, as the Barnes jacket either collapses at the nose, the jacket "petals" fold back against the core, or the "petals" are torn off. This phenomena has been documented by the FBI BRF, as well as being noted in our testing.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

I would think if he was LE, that there is someone in that community ie. SWAT or Tac Team that would make use of that ammo. Like Terry said, its not top secret info and he may be LE and a great guy, but provide the rest of us with a little background info before posing a question around ammo that is designed for anything but shooting paper.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

Some of you seem to think that only LEO should have the ability to defend themselves against an attacker pursuing you in a vehicle, apparently.

That being said, this guy could be looking to take out a non-combatant. Who knows.

THAT being said... anybody but a complete dumbass will find a few hundred answers to the question by doing a little google searching.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

You are exactly right. This person could get 2 weeks worth of research to read by using Google.

Whether he did or not, he came here asking for specific information that is usually (not always) tied to L.E. type operations.

I do not think ill of anybody finding available information from the internet but that doesn't mean I can't question somebody's qualifications or motive before I share information.

It's really not a big deal. I'm sure there will be 30 posts to this thread with the exact information I would share anyway.

By the way, I doubt he would be defending himself with an SR25 while trying to stay ahead of a Zombie mobile. Way better to spend your time and money on offensive/defensive driving classes and choose a better bail out gun.

None of my response was meant to offend Geo or dismiss his question. I won't hesitate to share this information with non L.E. individuals that I am familiar with and am comfortable with their character.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

Geo, no one is trying to give you a hard time out of malice. Forums like this one are open to the general public. You have all types of people on here. Usually we ridicule the ones that do not belong till hey leave. In the 3 years that I have been here I have read multiple posts that just should never have been posted...i.e. A guy asked what armor can take multiple .338LM rounds to the back. Saw another one asking about what he can use to spy on his Arabic neighbors. We get tons of guys that claim to be sharpshooters, and snipers with elite military units, they blow their cover by asking very basic, and downright stupid questions. So, to many of those who are veteran SH members they tend to air on the side of caution due to the possibility that some psyco, or lunitic may be given info they should never have been told. To avoid this, try and do a little introduction for your first post. Also, try the search function as well. If you do not have your profile filled out, and actually did a search and got nothing, then make your post. We actully are friendly and helpful, but you will also need some thick skin around here as well.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

Exactly my point, that info could be had just about any place. Myself most of all would hate to deny someone their right to protect themselves, but how many times has it been stated for each new member to provide some type of profile? No one knows anything about him whatsoever other than he is running an expensive rig and needs ammo to penetrate through barriers, specifically residential/auto glass. I am no way insinuating that this person has any mailicious intent, just being cautious, thats all.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

Terry, I wasn't calling you out or referencing your post in my statement.
wink.gif
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

All, Thank you for your responses. I'll clear up the matter of identity so that we can get back to the topic at hand. Please see my profile. You don't get an email address at " .gov " unless you work for one.

Please forgive me for being less than forthcoming with personal information. As it was stated, this IS a public forum and I am as cautious with my identity as many of you are about whom you dissimenate information to. No offense taken about the reluctance to share and none is intended from this side.

As to the issue at question, I recently transitioned from a bolt gun (AI-AE) to the Stoner. I AM the senior guy. We have 9 bolt guns and 2 semi-autos. The Stoner has had feed problems with the previos open air round, 168 Federal GMM and the previous barrier round, 165 Federal. "We" switched to the 155 Hornady TAP for open air and the 165 Hornady for barrier. After firing multiple rounds I would have to stop, break the gun down, and pick a polymer tip out of the lugs.

What I am looking for is those that have experience with the Stoner and may have a suggestion for a barrier round that works well in that rifle. I figure if I can get a few good suggestions I won't have to start trying boxes of ammo from scratch.

Again, thanks in advance for your responses.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

Well on that note....As far as an open air round, give the Black Hills 175 SMK round a try. As far as shooting through glass, there is no magic round for that, at least not that I am aware of. I know there is a technique for shooting at angled glass. Aside from deflection, you want to be sure the bullet will not fragment on impact. The corbon 168 DPX may work ok for that. I would rely more on techniqe and tactics with accurate and proven ammo.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

Jeff, welcome to the forum. Didn't mean to direct anything personal towards you, but you never know who is lurking around if you know what I mean.

I have no experience with the SR-25 so any information I could share would be of no use to you. I run a short-barreled M-14 exclusively with Hornady TAP, mostly 168 grain. It has always been accurate and have never had a failure to feed. They have a TAP barrier rd but it also has a polymer tip, so that may not help you. TAP 168 grain Precision does not have the tip, so it might be worth a look. They also have a PDF file for their TAP rds they have tested through various barriers, may be a lot of useful info for you.

Also, I have not used it but Corbon DPX loads may be worth a look, should offer significant retained weight. Sorry I couldn't be more help.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff, welcome to the forum. Didn't mean to direct anything personal towards you, but you never know who is lurking around if you know what I mean.

I have no experience with the SR-25 so any information I could share would be of no use to you. I run a short-barreled M-14 exclusively with Hornady TAP, mostly 168 grain. It has always been accurate and have never had a failure to feed. They have a TAP barrier rd but it also has a polymer tip, so that may not help you. TAP 168 grain Precision does not have the tip, so it might be worth a look. They also have a PDF file for their TAP rds they have tested through various barriers, may be a lot of useful info for you.

Also, I have not used it but Corbon DPX loads may be worth a look, should offer significant retained weight. Sorry I couldn't be more help. </div></div>

The link I posted explains why Barnes TSX bullets (the bullets loaded in Corbon DPX)are at the bottom of the list of barrier blind bullets when shooting through autoglass. Hopefully those could be a last resort. It seems that a lot of the better barrier loads out there he has had specific issues with, so if he is LE maybe he can acquire some AP ammunition. Shouldn't have any problems with those feeding in his gun. I don't have an SR-25, but do have an AR-10. I haven't had any issues with PT ammo but have avoided SPs at the manufacturers recommendation. It sucks that his SR-25 is limiting his selection to much.
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

All,

Thank you for your responses! I've spent the last few days doing some intense Googling based on the responses I've received.

First, going back and reading my initial post I realize why it drew the reaction it did. (I think that I would have responded similarly). I have very limited experience with these forums. The suggestion of leading with a brief personal introduction was a good and common sense approach that I will practice in the future. Again, my apologies to any that I may have offended.

Second, based on the response I've received I'm beginning to think that the difficulties that I am having are not ammunition based. For those still reading and interested in assisting me, here are the symptoms, I appreciate all diagnoses.

-Shooting the Federal GMM out of a 20 round magazine I would fire 8-10 rounds before the chamber would seize closed or the bolt would stop 1/2" to 3/4" of going into battery.

-With the bolt seized closed I would have to put the buttstock into the ground and hammer the charging handle with the palm of my hand to open the action and expel the spent casing. After reinserting the magazine and closing the bolt I could go back to semi-auto fire for several more rounds.

-The second of the two malfuctions (faling to go completely into battery) also seems to occur intermittenly. A Phase 1 malfunction drill will generally clear the problem.

-I have experienced this with the Federal Tactical 165, the Federal GMM 168, the Remington, and the Hornady TAP 155. (With the Hornady I had the added experience of the polymer tips breaking and getting stuck in the lugs.) The Remington ammo seemed to have the least occurence of either problem allowing me to get through 30-40 rounds with 1 or 2 stoppages.

-The KA law enforcement rep was the one that put me on to the idea that it was likely the ammo I was using and also suggested that I switch from using Break-Free to TW25B.

Again, for those still with me, any suggestions?

Kindly,

Jeff
 
Re: Input needed - Barrier round for SR-25

George,

1. Is the rifle fairly new?
2. How many rounds through it at this point?
3. Do you have the newest mags? Older mags had feed problems.
4. Do all the mags have the same propensity to intermittent misfeed?
5. I have had better luck using TSI-301 as a lube.
TSI-301

6. Is there any ammo that it will feed reliably? M118-LR or FGGM 175?
7. Which variant of the rifle do you have and when was it produced?

Scott Nye
(I have a SR-25 Match 24" barrel, circa 1994, and a Mk 11 Mod 0).