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Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
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Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tsprink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Real life isn't as smooth as TV ... </div></div>
The question that always pops into my mind when these discussions pop up is:
"If TV is so damn smooth compared to real life, why do a majority of those guys spouting off about it look like trainwrecks during very simple training scenarios????"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tsprink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Real life isn't as smooth as TV ... </div></div>
The question that always pops into my mind when these discussions pop up is:
"If TV is so damn smooth compared to real life, why do a majority of those guys spouting off about it look like trainwrecks during very simple training scenarios????"
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever you do, dont carry a 1911 hammer down on a loaded chamber on any 70 series 1911's. Other than that hammer down begs a ND. Condition three is not my cup of tea either for too many reasons to list!</div></div>
So are you saying hammer down on any 1911 begs a ND or just the 70 series?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever you do, dont carry a 1911 hammer down on a loaded chamber on any 70 series 1911's. Other than that hammer down begs a ND. Condition three is not my cup of tea either for too many reasons to list!</div></div>
So are you saying hammer down on any 1911 begs a ND or just the 70 series?
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.
It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.</div></div>
so on a 1911 with a blocking mechanism what are the conditions of a ND? Hammer down shouldnt be a prob. w/ the block? Or are you saying the ND could happen while cocking the hammer in a stressful situation?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.</div></div>
so on a 1911 with a blocking mechanism what are the conditions of a ND? Hammer down shouldnt be a prob. w/ the block? Or are you saying the ND could happen while cocking the hammer in a stressful situation?
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.</div></div>
so on a 1911 with a blocking mechanism what are the conditions of a ND? Hammer down shouldnt be a prob. w/ the block? Or are you saying the ND could happen while cocking the hammer in a stressful situation? </div></div>
I think thats what hes saying...even with the extra safety on the model 80's its still not wise to carry it with the hammer down. Cocked with safety on is the way to go...then all it takes is a flick of the thumb while drawing to have it ready to fire.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.</div></div>
so on a 1911 with a blocking mechanism what are the conditions of a ND? Hammer down shouldnt be a prob. w/ the block? Or are you saying the ND could happen while cocking the hammer in a stressful situation? </div></div>
I think thats what hes saying...even with the extra safety on the model 80's its still not wise to carry it with the hammer down. Cocked with safety on is the way to go...then all it takes is a flick of the thumb while drawing to have it ready to fire.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.</div></div>
so on a 1911 with a blocking mechanism what are the conditions of a ND? Hammer down shouldnt be a prob. w/ the block? Or are you saying the ND could happen while cocking the hammer in a stressful situation? </div></div>
I think thats what hes saying...even with the extra safety on the model 80's its still not wise to carry it with the hammer down. Cocked with safety on is the way to go...then all it takes is a flick of the thumb while drawing to have it ready to fire.</div></div>
I understand that cocked and locked is the "way" to go, Iam just trying to understand the intracate falacies "how in theory a ND can happen" of carrying hammer down aside from series 70.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It begs an ND on any 1911. To add to that on 70 series there is no block.</div></div>
so on a 1911 with a blocking mechanism what are the conditions of a ND? Hammer down shouldnt be a prob. w/ the block? Or are you saying the ND could happen while cocking the hammer in a stressful situation? </div></div>
I think thats what hes saying...even with the extra safety on the model 80's its still not wise to carry it with the hammer down. Cocked with safety on is the way to go...then all it takes is a flick of the thumb while drawing to have it ready to fire.</div></div>
I understand that cocked and locked is the "way" to go, Iam just trying to understand the intracate falacies "how in theory a ND can happen" of carrying hammer down aside from series 70.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
Think of it this way. To get the hammer down on a live round you had to do what?
In any CC situation I may need to press my firearm into service, there is a STRONG possibility I will need to do it as discreetely as possible. Not the time to go racking and cocking IMO. In a series 70 there is no firing pin block so there is greater risk of a discharge on an accidental drop or impact to the hammer. Ask the guy who shot himself through both legs when he swung his coat around his chair with a hammer down (condition2)1911 in the pocket! I'll see if I can find that article.
Think of it this way. To get the hammer down on a live round you had to do what?
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
Not much theory. If you have to thumb down a hammer on a live round its dangerous. Think about it, you need to bypass ALL safeties to do it INCLUDING PULLING THE TRIGGER!!!!
Not much theory. If you have to thumb down a hammer on a live round its dangerous. Think about it, you need to bypass ALL safeties to do it INCLUDING PULLING THE TRIGGER!!!!
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Think of it this way. To get the hammer down on a live round you had to do what?
In any CC situation I may need to press my firearm into service, there is a STRONG possibility I will need to do it as discreetely as possible. Not the time to go racking and cocking IMO. In a series 70 there is no firing pin block so there is greater risk of a discharge on an accidental drop or impact to the hammer. Ask the guy who shot himself through both legs when he swung his coat around his chair with a hammer down (condition2)1911 in the pocket! I'll see if I can find that article.</div></div>
yea I found that on another board, pretty nasty.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Think of it this way. To get the hammer down on a live round you had to do what?
yea I found that on another board, pretty nasty.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
This information is a little interesting, some questions? Do you teach currently? Were you in the Military or Law Enforcement. It appears that you are so I was asking. if so, How long were you in? Any combat experience? I have a buddy who is looking for instructors. Also, where do you train/shoot any good places I should test out? Thanks for your time?
This information is a little interesting, some questions? Do you teach currently? Were you in the Military or Law Enforcement. It appears that you are so I was asking. if so, How long were you in? Any combat experience? I have a buddy who is looking for instructors. Also, where do you train/shoot any good places I should test out? Thanks for your time?
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
If your going to carry a 1911 carry it like it was meant to be, Cocked and Locked, Condition One what ever you want to call it with a round in the chamber and the safety on. In that configuration it's quicker than the heavy triggers because Your thumb takes care of the safety as you draw. Read up on some stuff by COL. Jeff Cooper
If your going to carry a 1911 carry it like it was meant to be, Cocked and Locked, Condition One what ever you want to call it with a round in the chamber and the safety on. In that configuration it's quicker than the heavy triggers because Your thumb takes care of the safety as you draw. Read up on some stuff by COL. Jeff Cooper
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
Curious, Talking about practicing holstering fast? What's the point? What did you mean by shoot house targets needing a certain number of hits. Aren't you supposed to shoot until the threat falls? What drills would you be posting? I'd like to know where your material originate. Videos are nice, but force on force training I believe an operator or anyone w/ a gun for carry, cop or not, would do better increasing their stress level to a very real world situation. Sounds like the cops you know were lucky but very unprepared and narrow minded in their view of training. I hope they get more of it! Oh, my bud is still looking for instructors maybe I could put him in touch w/ you. He's prior Mil/ Fed LE att to SF for some time. He's legit. cheers
Curious, Talking about practicing holstering fast? What's the point? What did you mean by shoot house targets needing a certain number of hits. Aren't you supposed to shoot until the threat falls? What drills would you be posting? I'd like to know where your material originate. Videos are nice, but force on force training I believe an operator or anyone w/ a gun for carry, cop or not, would do better increasing their stress level to a very real world situation. Sounds like the cops you know were lucky but very unprepared and narrow minded in their view of training. I hope they get more of it! Oh, my bud is still looking for instructors maybe I could put him in touch w/ you. He's prior Mil/ Fed LE att to SF for some time. He's legit. cheers
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
I agree...... I'm sure you have heard this before, NO ONE Rises to the occasion they FALL to their level of training. Some wet themselves before its over, if their breathing. Shoot until the body hits the floor.... You're talking from some exp. I understand. Godspeed.
I agree...... I'm sure you have heard this before, NO ONE Rises to the occasion they FALL to their level of training. Some wet themselves before its over, if their breathing. Shoot until the body hits the floor.... You're talking from some exp. I understand. Godspeed.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
How would you open people's eyes, if you haven't been in an armed conflict? If you are in a LEO in a rural area how exciting or experienced could that make one. Not trying to burst your bubble or anything. Seems like your pretty motivated. What do you do for a living, you must bank a bit, to be shooting all the time huh? Are you working at a training facility or something helping out maybe? Oh, do you like CKM or Krav Maga? how's that training going? Is it tough, or realistic? it seemed you liked it. Curious to train with some of your people or something?
How would you open people's eyes, if you haven't been in an armed conflict? If you are in a LEO in a rural area how exciting or experienced could that make one. Not trying to burst your bubble or anything. Seems like your pretty motivated. What do you do for a living, you must bank a bit, to be shooting all the time huh? Are you working at a training facility or something helping out maybe? Oh, do you like CKM or Krav Maga? how's that training going? Is it tough, or realistic? it seemed you liked it. Curious to train with some of your people or something?
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
just 2 cents here.
I agree that the 1911 is suitable for only a small minority of the shooters out there. Definitely I am not knocking the guy who shot 400 matches with one, but the average CCW is not well-served with a 1911, or Sig 220 for that matter. SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY. Although it may be heresy, the average CCW is better served with a revolver. No jams. No safety. No mag to fall out at an inopportune time. Just point and pull, and as the stories above indicate, half the time the dude will forget do point before he shoots.
When my dad set my sister up, he put a 1911 hidden by her front door, in a holster snapped shut, with an empty chamber. Doh! That is death waiting to happen. I promptly took that away from her. And set her up with the same gun in her house that she uses for concealed carry, plus a rifle of course.
just 2 cents here.
I agree that the 1911 is suitable for only a small minority of the shooters out there. Definitely I am not knocking the guy who shot 400 matches with one, but the average CCW is not well-served with a 1911, or Sig 220 for that matter. SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY. Although it may be heresy, the average CCW is better served with a revolver. No jams. No safety. No mag to fall out at an inopportune time. Just point and pull, and as the stories above indicate, half the time the dude will forget do point before he shoots.
When my dad set my sister up, he put a 1911 hidden by her front door, in a holster snapped shut, with an empty chamber. Doh! That is death waiting to happen. I promptly took that away from her. And set her up with the same gun in her house that she uses for concealed carry, plus a rifle of course.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
I view it as two disparate catagories. Commited to training and non training. Its the non training user that needs the simplest device. I actually discuss this at length with those that ask my advice. Lets just say quite a few ended up with 20Ga. pump shotguns for home defence when the started out wanting an AR15.
I view it as two disparate catagories. Commited to training and non training. Its the non training user that needs the simplest device. I actually discuss this at length with those that ask my advice. Lets just say quite a few ended up with 20Ga. pump shotguns for home defence when the started out wanting an AR15.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just 2 cents here.
I agree that the 1911 is suitable for only a small minority of the shooters out there. Definitely I am not knocking the guy who shot 400 matches with one, but the average CCW is not well-served with a 1911, or Sig 220 for that matter. SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY. Although it may be heresy, the average CCW is better served with a revolver. No jams. No safety. No mag to fall out at an inopportune time. Just point and pull, and as the stories above indicate, half the time the dude will forget do point before he shoots.
When my dad set my sister up, he put a 1911 hidden by her front door, in a holster snapped shut, with an empty chamber. Doh! That is death waiting to happen. I promptly took that away from her. And set her up with the same gun in her house that she uses for concealed carry, plus a rifle of course.</div></div>
I personally believe that any one with a CCW could be best served by a 1911 of their choice of caliber. It's an instinctive system to use once learned. The problems come from not keeping one in the tube. An instinctive safety, Thumb Safety isn't going to be a hinderance if one learns to shoot with the thumb on top of it applying pressure. What Glock calls a safety I call a trigger. Shotguns are more suited to home defense. JMHO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just 2 cents here.
I agree that the 1911 is suitable for only a small minority of the shooters out there. Definitely I am not knocking the guy who shot 400 matches with one, but the average CCW is not well-served with a 1911, or Sig 220 for that matter. SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY, SIMPLICITY. Although it may be heresy, the average CCW is better served with a revolver. No jams. No safety. No mag to fall out at an inopportune time. Just point and pull, and as the stories above indicate, half the time the dude will forget do point before he shoots.
When my dad set my sister up, he put a 1911 hidden by her front door, in a holster snapped shut, with an empty chamber. Doh! That is death waiting to happen. I promptly took that away from her. And set her up with the same gun in her house that she uses for concealed carry, plus a rifle of course.</div></div>
I personally believe that any one with a CCW could be best served by a 1911 of their choice of caliber. It's an instinctive system to use once learned. The problems come from not keeping one in the tube. An instinctive safety, Thumb Safety isn't going to be a hinderance if one learns to shoot with the thumb on top of it applying pressure. What Glock calls a safety I call a trigger. Shotguns are more suited to home defense. JMHO
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">go into a simunitions training scenario cold and try not to get lit up first go around......a very humbling experience </div></div>
My first tattoo was from a simunitions round... I now have a blue star and some gun powder in my forearm. Point blank bus scenarios. Fun times.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">go into a simunitions training scenario cold and try not to get lit up first go around......a very humbling experience </div></div>
My first tattoo was from a simunitions round... I now have a blue star and some gun powder in my forearm. Point blank bus scenarios. Fun times.
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
500grains said:
Re: Inside a Gunfight. How to be ready
This has been a great post guys - good insight.
I still have the 38 handy first and foremost but the 12 guage is right there also.
This has been a great post guys - good insight.
I still have the 38 handy first and foremost but the 12 guage is right there also.
