Installing savage barrel on ARC action

[Woolsocks]

About to start my first somewhat involved project - taking a proof barrel off a savage 110 ultralight and putting it on an ARC coup de grace action. It’s a bit different because the savage take-off has a barrel nut instead of being a shouldered pre-fit. Here’s what I think I need to do. Any comments?

1. Put the savage barreled action into a Wheeler Action Wrench #2, clamped in a vice
2. Use a Wheeler Barrel Nut Wrench to remove the barrel nut
3. Unscrew the barrel (wondering how hard this will be, does savage lock-tite these in?)
4. Clean gunk off the threads and put some sort of anti-seize on there (recommendations?)
5. Remove the firing pin from the ARC bolt.
6. Loosely screw the savage barrel into the ARC action.
7. Put a go gauge in ARC chamber and close the bolt. Screw the barrel down until it bumps the go guage then back off a tiny bit. Check it with the no-go.
8. Once my headspace is good, put one end of the ARC action wrench in the action, and secure the other end in a vice.
9. Use the barrel nut wrench to torque the barrel nut down to 100 foot-lbs spec’d by ARC (not the 50 ft-lbs typical for savage)
10. Check again with the go and no-go gauges. If it clears, you’re good to go.

 

[Dirty D]

I don’t know about Proof but Criterion specifically says not to use a barrel vise. I have installed barrels on Savages, Bighorns and my CdG with just an action wrench and barrel nut wrench.

 

[anon]

The action wrench does not have a cutout for the integral picatinny rail.

I too am curious how people have been doing what you are asking about. I have only used barrel nuts on actions with separate rails, and on those the regular action wrench works fine.

 

[Woolsocks]

The action wrench does not have a cutout for the integral picatinny rail.

I too am curious how people have been doing what you are asking about. I have only used barrel nuts on actions with separate rails, and on those the regular action wrench works fine.

Two action wrenches would be used. The wheeler one on the savage action (to hold it in place while I remove the barrel), and the ARC action wrench to hold the ARC action in place while I torque the barrel nut onto the ARC action.

seems like somebody must have done this before, unless everyone is using the prefits with shoulders instead of the barrel nut?

 

[srt-4_uk]

Why are you pulling the firing pin?

 

[Woolsocks]

Why are you pulling the firing pin?

Do you not need to for headspacing?

 

[Mike Casselton]

I'm pretty sure that barrel nut isn't going to like 100lb/ft of torque.

 

[anon]

Yeah, disregard my reading comprehension.

There is at least one Wheeler type action wrench available, with a relief cut for the rail, marketed for Surgeon actions.

My previous experience with Bighorn, Remington, and Savage actions, is that the Wheeler type wrench is stupid easy. Both for removing and installing.

 

[Woolsocks]

I'm pretty sure that barrel nut isn't going to like 100lb/ft of torque.

Really good point. So does one torque to the ARC spec, or to the Savage spec? Might be a question for ARC

 

[Dirty D]

The action wrench does not have a cutout for the integral picatinny rail.

I call my ARC action wrench Turdcutter308 because it’s rear entry only.

@Threadcutter308

 

[Dirty D]

Do you not need to for headspacing?

Not if it’s in the “cocked” position, ARC actions use a fixed blade ejector so you don’t have to worry about it but actions that use a spring type ejector (Salvage and Remington etc) need the ejector removed before head spacing.

 

[CMP70306]

So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but what you are looking to do most likely won’t work but for completely different reasons than what you listed. The two main issues I see are going to be the lack of coned breech or the cartridge choice.

Basically for the CDG in a short action only the magnum cartridges (6.5 PRC, .300 WSM) don’t require a coned breech to feed properly. The issue is that if your Savage has one of these chamberings then that means it has the large shank threads which are incompatible with the CDG.

If it is in a standard short action chambering (.308, 6.5 creed) then the lack of coned breech will most likely cause feeding issues from the mag. It may work but I don’t have any first hand experience as my SA CDG is in 6.5 PRC.

 

[Woolsocks]

So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but what you are looking to do most likely won’t work but for completely different reasons than what you listed. The two main issues I see are going to be the lack of coned breech or the cartridge choice.

Basically for the CDG in a short action only the magnum cartridges (6.5 PRC, .300 WSM) don’t require a coned breech to feed properly. The issue is that if your Savage has one of these chamberings then that means it has the large shank threads which are incompatible with the CDG.

If it is in a standard short action chambering (.308, 6.5 creed) then the lack of coned breech will most likely cause feeding issues from the mag. It may work but I don’t have any first hand experience as my SA CDG is in 6.5 PRC.

Interesting. Happy for the feedback! I’m doing a long action. The plan was to use a proof .280AI barrel off a savage ultralight. It does have a small shank (I called savage to confirm based on the serial #) but I didn’t ask about conical vs flat.

 

[Dirty D]

Interesting. Happy for the feedback! I’m doing a long action. The plan was to use a proof .280AI barrel off a savage ultralight. It does have a small shank (I called savage to confirm based on the serial #) but I didn’t ask about conical vs flat.

A Savage factory barrel will be a flat breach but any competent gunsmith can come the breach using the drawings supplied on ARCs website.

 

[TheOE800]

A Savage factory barrel will be a flat breach but any competent gunsmith can come the breach using the drawings supplied on ARCs website.

Someone in the ARC thread did it with a stack of washers IIRC.

 

[Woolsocks]

A Savage factory barrel will be a flat breach but any competent gunsmith can come the breach using the drawings supplied on ARCs website.

Hmm, how much would that cost? Wondering if getting a new barrel is going to be a better idea..

 

[bigfoot750]

I picked up a savage barrel nut barrel from pva during their sale and it feeds just fine without the conical breach. There are a few guys that run flat breach with no issue. Screw your barrel on get it close and try it before buying a new one

 

[308pirate]

Hmm, how much would that cost? Wondering if getting a new barrel is going to be a better idea..

Don't waste money on something that might not matter. Assemble it and dry run some rounds through it first.

 

[Dirty D]

Hmm, how much would that cost? Wondering if getting a new barrel is going to be a better idea..

Shouldn’t cost much at all to chuck a barrel up in a lathe and take off a tiny bit of material.

 

[Woolsocks]

Don't waste money on something that might not matter. Assemble it and dry run some rounds through it first.

I guess what we’re trying to avoid is the extractor dragging on the face of the barrel? Seems like this thread recommends testing with a sharpie, with a go gauge or dummy round in the chamber.

Properly Testing a Coned Breech for Extractor Drag - Coup owners read this

Folks, Recently we've had a number of guys wanting us to rework prefits for Coups due to the extractor dragging on the bolt face. In May alone it was 5 barrels, 3 of which came from the same member. Those 3 barrels were on the date bubble where it's possible they might have been cut prior to...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Im2bent]

Like 308 said don't start panicking before you actually try it. Coned breech is for the smaller calibers. 50 foot pounds should be plenty.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Shouldn’t cost much at all to chuck a barrel up in a lathe and take off a tiny bit of material.

It's not that simple
Here are three images of barrel breeches.


The first one is the flat, Savage style breech.

Notice where the extractor groove is, in relation to the solid web.

Next up is a Remington style "3 rings of steel breech.
The bolt nose actually goes into the recess.
Also, note where the solid web is located.

Next up is a 700 breech, modified for a cone bolt nose.
Note where the solid web is.

All three barrels have the exact same amount of the brass sticking out from the actual chamber, regardless of the type of bolt nose.

You cannot take a flat breech barrel and just put a cone on it. Doing so will cause the web to be unsupported, and the cone to bolt face dimension will be way off.

The only way to add a cone to a flat breech is to rechamber the barrel, leaving enough room on the back to machine the cone.



Tomorrow's class will be on the proper length of the pinky nail, for proper booger hookin.

 

[Woolsocks]

It's not that simple
Here are three images of barrel breeches.


The first one is the flat, Savage style breech.

Notice where the extractor groove is, in relation to the solid web.
View attachment 8488832

Next up is a Remington style "3 rings of steel breech.
The bolt nose actually goes into the recess.
Also, note where the solid web is located.

View attachment 8488833

Next up is a 700 breech, modified for a cone bolt nose.
Note where the solid web is.

View attachment 8488834

All three barrels have the exact same amount of the brass sticking out from the actual chamber, regardless of the type of bolt nose.

You cannot take a flat breech barrel and just put a cone on it. Doing so will cause the web to be unsupported, and the cone to bolt face dimension will be way off.

The only way to add a cone to a flat breech is to rechamber the barrel, leaving enough room on the back to machine the cone.



Tomorrow's class will be on the proper length of the pinky nail, for proper booger hookin.

Yeah, I was going to ask about that. You can see from CDC’s barrel interface diagram that the chamber pushes forward with the conical breech. I think by the time I have a smith cone and re-chamber, I’ll be out 3-400 bucks (assuming I can find one with a 280AI reamer, which seems challenging).

 

[Mike Casselton]

Install it and try it out. I bet it'll be fine.
One of my 6-BRs has a coned breech, the one on the Origin doesn't
Both feed just fine, no matter what magazine I use

 

[Dirty D]

It's not that simple
Here are three images of barrel breeches.


The first one is the flat, Savage style breech.

Notice where the extractor groove is, in relation to the solid web.
View attachment 8488832

Next up is a Remington style "3 rings of steel breech.
The bolt nose actually goes into the recess.
Also, note where the solid web is located.

View attachment 8488833

Next up is a 700 breech, modified for a cone bolt nose.
Note where the solid web is.

View attachment 8488834

All three barrels have the exact same amount of the brass sticking out from the actual chamber, regardless of the type of bolt nose.

You cannot take a flat breech barrel and just put a cone on it. Doing so will cause the web to be unsupported, and the cone to bolt face dimension will be way off.

The only way to add a cone to a flat breech is to rechamber the barrel, leaving enough room on the back to machine the cone.



Tomorrow's class will be on the proper length of the pinky nail, for proper booger hookin.

Thank you for the useable data, I have asked about this very issue in another discussion and never got an intelligible answer.

 

[Woolsocks]

Interesting note. It looks like the barrel has a slight chamfer at the breech. Is this considered a flat breech?

 

[srt-4_uk]

If you are pulling it off of a Savage, it is a flat breach

 

[jabonra]

I dont know if this guy blew his dick off or anything, but it is post #6669 so its gotta be good right?

Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

Oh. Yeah, oh. wasn't pointed out until after that he was sent the wrong extractor but thanks for pointing it out.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Woolsocks]

I dont know if this guy blew his dick off or anything, but it is post #6669 so its gotta be good right?

Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

Oh. Yeah, oh. wasn't pointed out until after that he was sent the wrong extractor but thanks for pointing it out.

www.snipershide.com

This is definitely crossing into “just buy a different barrel” territory for me. From what I gather from this thread, trying a flat breech on a .473 bolt face action may result in poor feeding issues, but it’s not dangerous..

 

[Bakerman87]

This is definitely crossing into “just buy a different barrel” territory for me. From what I gather from this thread, trying a flat breech on a .473 bolt face action may result in poor feeding issues, but it’s not dangerous..

It’s not a CDG but I put a savage prefit on a nucleus. With the ARC Internal action wrench and barrel nut & torque wrench. I used a go gauge and 2 layers of a sticky note cut to fit on the end of the gauge. 3 layers was to many for me. I did put my barrel in a barrel vise just hand tightened down just enough to hold it from wobbling. I left no marks in the carbon which is what you would have to worry about. I got the headspace right and the nut hand tight I then rotated the barrel and receiver so that the internal action wrench and the box end wrench I had on it were braced against my work bench. I put my torque wrench on the nut locked it down. It took me 3 tries to get it right. I am not trained or qualified to build guns but it worked on 2 rifles so far with proof barrels. Savage barrels on savage actions are a god aweful bitch to get off. Because of what ever the grit is in the threads. I would hope like hell the proof/savage doesn’t have that because stainless threads like to screw up if you look at them funny. There is a video of a guy taking a savage barrel off a little at a time by back it off then running it down and flushing the debris out. This worked for me as well.

 

[Woolsocks]

A big thanks to everyone who helped with this build. Just got it wrapped up and had time for a very quick trip to the range this morning. Very happy with it. I never imagined how much better quality you can get from a custom build. It fits me much better than my factory rifles, and you can really feel the difference in quality. Came in at about 8.5lbs scope and all, which is exactly what I wanted.

loaded up 5 rounds evenly spaced from the bottom of the reccomended load range to the top. They all landed in an MOA group, and there were no overpressure signs at all. Doesn’t really tell us anything, but I have a feeling this will be a shooter.