Range Report Interesting 308 range results

[Broc]

I've been working up some 308 loads and have come across some interesting results. I was hoping to get some input on what might be causing the patterning in my groups. Here is what my results look like:

The top three targets are 100 yds from a bench with bags front and rear. Bottom cardboard targets are at 200 yds and the bottom white target is at 250, all three shot prone with a bipod front and bag rear. Notice the similarity in pattern, nice 3 shot group with two fliers. One up and to the left, and one down and to the right. What do you guys think might be the cause of that patterning??

My best guess is recoil management. After I noticed the pattern I started paying attention to my recoil. I noticed the gun recoiled up and to the left most of the time. On the 250 yd target I paid extra attention to my shooting position and noticed the gun recoil up only. Seemed to make the fliers go away.

What do you guys think? Am I on track with recoil being the explanation for the group patterning or is there something else that I am overlooking?

I appreciate any thoughts!

 

[doc76251]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

Off the top of my head I'd say you have a parallax issue combined w/ an inconsistent cheek weld or a length of pull problem.

Was this off a bench, prone????????

What was your point of aim?

Cheers,

Doc

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

here's the deal.....BTW #1 to Doc76251

3x9's got no parralax adjustment...its a hunting scope fixed parralax at about 200yd give or take.

i would make book that the action screws are not torqued, and the barrel is not floated,,,,,,and possibly the rings and base would need to be checked.......then the other thing i would look at , is to dry fire and check the reticle to savvy any movement.....the groups are not groups ....you show a shotgun pattern......

something is seriously fucked up here dude

 

[mis-guided child2]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

Ruger.

 

[Broc]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

LOL. I knew as soon as I said it was a Ruger the hate was going to flow..

Let's see. 100yd groups were from a bench, the others were from bipod and prone. The scope is a VX-II gold ring from the '70's that has parallax adjustment, which I was using. The base and rings are torqued as are the action screws. It isn't bedded, but everything is torqued evenly. The barrel channel has been free floated, I checked and nothing touches while I am shooting. I'll check the reticule during dry fire to see for movement, but I doubt the scope is the problem.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the groups are not groups ....you show a shotgun pattern...... something is seriously fucked up here dude </div></div>

Boltripper, I always enjoy your responses. Straight to the point.

I thought 1.1" 5-shot group at 250yds was fairly good for a bone stock Ruger hunting rig. I agree the groups are not the best, but I don't think something is seriously fucked up. I just found it odd that I had 4-5 shot groups that all had 3 shots around 1/2 MOA with two fliers that were in the exact same position. I mean, what are the odds of that? Maybe it it pure chance and gun is just shooting consistently bad in the same way, lol. It just seems like something is at play here other than bad shooting.. But hey, that's why I asked. I appreciate the responses!

BTW Doc, my POA for all groups were the black targets you see pictured. The drop was enough on the bottom targets that I trimmed them down and just showed the groups.

 

[BMelton]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

I dont think the fact that "Ruger" has anything to do with it. I've seen a few shoot rather well. Broc. what i would do in this instance is drag a vice out to the range if available and
take yourself out of the equation. At least as much of the human element as possible. I had somewhat of the same issue with one of my 308's....and it was me not the rife or the load

Doc has a good point with the parallax issue. Different people have ideas so do what you feel is best



Bryan

 

[Broc]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

Bryan,

Good idea with the gun vise. That would be an easy test to perform. I'm not overly concerned about it, I just thought it was an interesting coincidence.

I agree with you on Ruger rifles. In fact, if I could only own one gun for the rest of my life it would be this rifle.

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

Dude,
with the statement above: you need more help than any of us can give. I would suggest doctor Phil! LOL! put some more powder behind those 168s an see if that helps. I agree with boltripper the fact you don't have groups.

 

[BCP]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

Put it in something like a lead sled that will hold it very tight and try some factory ammo.

 

[cdennyb]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

ok, this might be weird too. Take a look at this target I shot day before yesterday. 100 yds. first shots of the day, factory ammo and notice the pattern. first shots were exactly like yours. Now what? I was off a bi-pod located on a bench, (ground was muddy, and I'm a puss)and I wasn't in a hurry either.
Whatever you're doing... I seem to be doing it to.

Savage 110 BAS, 300 win mag, 12-42x nightforce, harris BP,

 

[doc76251]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

OK if parallax wasn't an issue I'd then go with the second part that you are crowding the rifle OR your left handed. Usually rifles recoil to the right. Try this

Point the rifle at the target and put the bag under the a$$ end so that it sits still.

Now stand up behind the gun so that you are in line with it and the target.

Drop down directly behind the rifle so that you can do a push up where your "pocket" falls right behind the stock, your right ear should be pretty damn close to the left side of the stock.

Kick your legs out evenly at about 30* from center, insteps down.

Swing your arms wide around and grab the pistol grip and bag and lift the stock straight up so that the but pad goes into the "flat" where your pocket is and drop your face straight down on the stock.

You should STILL be aimed at the target.

If you are off left or right MOVE your WHOLE body and rifle as a rigid unit (hips, legs, chest, gun).

Now "scootch" forward with your toes to pre load the bipod. If you are straining with your toes move your whole body forward until you can just flex your toes to get pre load.

If you have done all these things correctly your rifle will be rising and falling as you breath STRAIGHT up and down. If you let go with both hands the rifle should still be pointing at the target and rising and falling straight up and down as you breath. If you raise and lower your head the rifle should remain on target.

If you let go and the rifle pushes to one side or the other or you lift and return your head with the same result, your position is wrong get up and do it again. You should be able to lay behind the gun and completely relax, no strain/pressure, no hands.

The only reason for your right hand is to pull the rifle slightly into your shoulder to maintain even pressure and to hold your trigger finger still. The Left hand should be driving the bag to squeeze the stock up or relax and let it down. Your face should be pressed solidly against the stock to anchor your eye to the scope, not to push the rifle around.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Broc]

Re: Interesting 308 range results

cdennyb - that is interesting. It has the same pattern as my shots.

I think you are right doc. I was not paying enough attention to my shooting position. Thank you for taking the time to write that up! I will follow those instructions next time I'm out and see what results follow.

It is interesting that you mentioned crowding the rifle stock. I never really thought of that until now, but I always thought the scope was mounted a bit far forward for my liking. I think I may have to adjust the scope back a bit to make my shooting position more comfortable.

Appreciate the input guys!