Suppressors Interesting problem related to 41F

[CoryT]

So, I have a corporate transfer that was processed prior to 4F. It's an AZ corporation, but the members have CA addresses. The new 4473 requires a NICS check (item 20) if the transfer did not include a background check on all the corporate members, as a post 41F transfer does. NICS will not do a check on a CA addressee for a transfer in AZ. I now have an approved NFA transfer, but no way for anyone in the corp to pick it up. Al luck would have it, I've got a compliance office coming by tomorrow, so we'll see what he says about it. The poor girl at FBI NICS support was basically clueless as to how to proceed. I'll post a note when/if I get a usable answer. Those of you with out-of-state corporations should stay tuned.

 

[2ndamendfan]

That is interesting. Please give an update when you have one.

 

[HansohnBrothers]

Since you are in AZ, you can only transfer to an AZ resident. Not sure why ATF approved the form 4. I'm also interested what your IOI says.

 

[CoryT]

It's an AZ corporation, not an individual, residency of the corp officers is not a consideration. His past transfers were fine, no NICS check required because of the NFA transfer, corporate officer picks it up, all good. Even a Washington DC resident can be a member of an AZ corporation, that's one reason people setup the corporate entity in the first place. Now that 41F requires prints and photographs of the 'responsible persons', everyone that can posses the items has a BG check done by the FBI. At that point, you just check the box.

I wonder how they run a check on a 2 year old that's on a trust. Obviously, until they are 21 they can't actually posses the item, but they can be a 'responsible person' listed in the trust, corp, llc, whatever. That would trigger the requirement for prints and photos. Imagine bringing them down to the station to do a print card. That should be fun.

 

[A5scott]

I'm not an attorney, but from owning many cans and SBR's over the past few years, I've learned a thing or two.
I know of people from NY state that have started a trust in PA, so they can go to PA and enjoy NFA items. Some dealers may scratch their heads when seeing the out of state ID, but they can transfer it fine. The item isn't owned by the individual and so long as the trust or corp has a valid address to secure said NFA items, everything should be good. I know that's not always how things work out. In PA, trustees must be 18 or older, or it may invalidate the trust, so you would want to avoid the BGC on a 2 year old, lol, I suppose an addendum removing said trustees would work in the case of a trust.
Hopefully it will work out.

Scott

 

[6brman]

Yeah this is interesting. Let us know how this turns out.

 

[Conrad101st]

Why not just have the resident registered agent that the corporation has most certainly filed with the secretary of state pick up the item. Might provide a corporate resolution promoting them to vp of armament.

 

[CoryT]

OK, bottom line is I'm going to have to have someone who can do the NICS check pick them up. The reason the NICS would not process was because it was a CA address, the NICS system is smart enough to know that that state requires the internal database and you can't purchase anything out of state. If they were in another state that a contiguous state rule applied I'd be good. Good news is they don't seem to care that I keep the cans in inventory until the owners figure out how to get a qualified person to pick them up.

 

[MtnCreek]

AZ will issue a carry permit to out of State persons, correct? Does a valid AZ carry permit suffice for a NICS check?

 

[CoryT]

It appears that a NICS check is REQUIRED for an NFA transfer that has not had a background check done as part of the transfer process, so the old method of using a state issued CCW is not valid.

 

[Dirty D]

If you read CA's statutes regarding AR's, Suppressors and other scary items, CA residents are prohibited from even owning prohibited items regardless of location of said scary item (in CA or out of CA). Owning scary items by proxy (via a trust or corp.) may meet the CA's statutes definition of owning, I know it may be seen as a creative interpretation of the law but the CA Attorney Generals office has a long history of getting creative with the law in pursuit of their final solution. The CA members of the trust/corp would be well served to get an opinion from an attorney experienced in CA state statutes.

 

[Conrad101st]

1. Let me ask you a question? If I buy stock in Delta and book a trip on a Delta aircraft; or happen to be a corporate officer for delta and get to travel for free on the corporate jets, does that mean I own a Boeing 777? The answer is obvious.

2. As to the problem at hand, via a resolution, have the corporation appoint a "temporary" officer who is a resident of the state to run the NICs and secure the item(s). I think its just that simple.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Technically if you own stock in Delta air lines then yea you own part of a 777.

 

[digitalshooter]

It appears that a NICS check is REQUIRED for an NFA transfer that has not had a background check done as part of the transfer process, so the old method of using a state issued CCW is not valid.

Just wondering, when did they change that?

 

[CoryT]

Its part of the new 4473 that just arrived. Questions 20 now reads

No NICS check was required because a background check was completed during the NFA approval process on the individual who will receive the NFA firearm(s), as reflected on the approved NFA application.

In the instructions for item 20
A NICS check must be conducted if an NFA firearm has been approved for transfer to a trust, or to a legal entity such as a corporation, and no background check was conducted as a part of the NFA approval process on the individual that will receive the firearm. Individuals who have undergone a background check during the NFA application process are listed on the approved NFA transfer form.

As far as residing in CA, the state can't do anything about people 'owning' prohibited items outside of CA. You can't bring it INTO the state, they can ban 'possession' but not simple 'ownership'

 

[HansohnBrothers]

Just wondering, when did they change that?

The 4473 was changed this year, effective 16 January. However, NFA firearms could only be picked up by residents of the same state as the dealer regardless of filing type (corporate, trust or individual) before then.