Interesting read on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

[jakelly]

To clarify:

Abraham spoke to God concerning Sodom’s fate.

The lowest number asked was 10.

Somebody has already posted the link to Ron Wyatt’s discovery. This discovery proves beyond a reasonable doubt the exact and miraculous story as told in scripture and the fact that there was no naturalistic explanation. He literally rained burning balls of 99% pure sulphur on them. Even the rocks were turned to ash.

 

[lariat]

100% agree.

Mine is worded somewhat differently, as I approach it from a rational, philosophical view, as well as a spiritual, biblical view, but gets to the root of yours.

The greatest gift we were given is Free Will. That includes even the freedom to destroy ourselves, which seems the course of mankind at this moment. IMHO it is the deepest (if often not realized) desire of every living thing (especially every sentient living thing) to have freedom to live free. So for me, 'Good' is all that which grants, or promotes, freedom to yourself and others. 'Evil' is all that which usurps freedom.

I’m good with this explanation. However, it must be remembered free will is neutral, it is not “good” in and of itself. It’s a condition or said another way, a state of existence and is not inherently good or bad. But it is a necessary component of both.

I will also submit to you that we have more free will than we recognize and much more than our fears allow us to use. We imprison ourselves. Sometimes to the detriment of those around us.

 

[Maggot]

I’m good with this explanation. However, it must be remembered free will is neutral, it is not “good” in and of itself. It’s a condition or said another way, a state of existence and is not inherently good or bad. But it is a necessary component of both.

I will also submit to you that we have more free will than we recognize and much more than our fears allow us to use. We imprison ourselves. Sometimes to the detriment of those around us.

Well said brother.

I agree that free will is neutral, what I was aiming at is that to grant it is good to deny it is evil. Even that is a tightrope walk, but to discuss it here would take too much space and sadly, likely bring much derision.

Personally, I believe in positional absolute free will, limited only by our understanding, and the baggage we carry.

PM incoming

 

[Dogtown]

“Die in the name of reason and logic!”

 

[Maggot]

“Die Live in the name of reason and logic!”

Guided by spirit.

 

[cgbills]

Interestingly enough, that problem was caused by ...wait for it...the Jews. Abe bonking his servant girl at his (Sarai/Sarah) wife's request. Then she couldnt live with her decision.

Just like the current problem is caused by them seizing land that they abandoned thousands of years ago and saying it was their 'right'. Yet they claim to be the 'victims'.

Its amazing, and appalling, the crap that can be justified by 'religions'. All of them.

Abraham wasn't a Jew. A Jew is someone who descended from the tribe of Judah, one of Jacob's/Israel's sons. Abraham was not Jewish nor was he part of the nation of "Israel", as it was his grandson Jacob that was renamed Israel. This point actually has significant theological messaging when it comes to the NT and the bringing of the gospel to the "nations". The Abrahamic covenant was not one made with the nation of Israel

 

[Maggot]

Abraham wasn't a Jew. A Jew is someone who descended from the tribe of Judah, one of Jacob's/Israel's sons. Abraham was not Jewish nor was he part of the nation of "Israel", as it was his grandson Jacob that was renamed Israel. This point actually has significant theological messaging when it comes to the NT and the bringing of the gospel to the "nations". The Abrahamic covenant was not one made with the nation of Israel

Fair enough, textually accurate, but somewhat picking nits as they are his (Abe's) descendants any way you look at it. Then what they did when they crossed the Jordan River to take the promised land was perhaps the first mass genocide in history. Actions have consequences even if they take 3000 years to come around.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Abraham wasn't a Jew. A Jew is someone who descended from the tribe of Judah, one of Jacob's/Israel's sons. Abraham was not Jewish nor was he part of the nation of "Israel", as it was his grandson Jacob that was renamed Israel. This point actually has significant theological messaging when it comes to the NT and the bringing of the gospel to the "nations". The Abrahamic covenant was not one made with the nation of Israel

If you want to try to make that argument, then you need to go read the actual texts (not the stupid modern happy, lovey, dovey, garbage translations)
You'll find that the blessing from God to Abraham was specifically listed as to his physical seed.
(Generally speaking all the ancient blessings / curses / promises, etc. were all bound to a physical bloodline.)
Deities don't care about stupid human lawyers and theologians trying to come up with ways to twist things to make humans all happy, their words are usually very clear and straightforward.

So if someone can trace their biological lineage back to Abraham, (I'm going with original fathers line as it was always done at that time and for thousands of years after until some folks decided to up and change it to suit their whims), then all good. BUT if their trace comes through one of branches of the bloodline that did not wind up being the primary heirs, they will need to go and read the specific blessing and burdens on the other children who didn't wind up being the inheriting line, who were Abraham's sons and grandsons & see how it applies, because their are great differences.

Then anyone that isn't biological bloodlines is kind of SOL and for making any claims to that specific bloodline promise, and needs to instead claim on the promise of faith that was offered to all who willingly submitted to be bound to it.

 

[jakelly]

The promise was spoken to Abraham and his seed, that is Christ, not seeds as in his physical heirs. Galatians 3:15-18

 

[W54/XM-388]

Always take what some lawyer says about their explanation of what a deity meant to have said with a bit of a grain of salt.
Especially when they are obviously trying to win an argument by making both sides happy.
Doubly when they are trying to lay out a new meaning for words that were settled and clear for thousands of years before them.

 

[brianf]

Get ready.

Reality dishes out correction in this dimension via natural means.

watched it live on TV..un fathomable amounts of energy

 

[cgbills]

If you want to try to make that argument, then you need to go read the actual texts (not the stupid modern happy, lovey, dovey, garbage translations)
You'll find that the blessing from God to Abraham was specifically listed as to his physical seed.
(Generally speaking all the ancient blessings / curses / promises, etc. were all bound to a physical bloodline.)
Deities don't care about stupid human lawyers and theologians trying to come up with ways to twist things to make humans all happy, their words are usually very clear and straightforward.

So if someone can trace their biological lineage back to Abraham, (I'm going with original fathers line as it was always done at that time and for thousands of years after until some folks decided to up and change it to suit their whims), then all good. BUT if their trace comes through one of branches of the bloodline that did not wind up being the primary heirs, they will need to go and read the specific blessing and burdens on the other children who didn't wind up being the inheriting line, who were Abraham's sons and grandsons & see how it applies, because their are great differences.

Then anyone that isn't biological bloodlines is kind of SOL and for making any claims to that specific bloodline promise, and needs to instead claim on the promise of faith that was offered to all who willingly submitted to be bound to it.

First I have read Gen 12, 15 and 17 in the Hebrew, so I am good there.

The point I am trying to make is that the Abrahamic covenant predated the Law and the Mosaic covenant made with the nation of Israel. Abraham was not himself a Jew because he is not from the tribe of Judah, nor was he an Israelite. Yes his physical descendants become the nation of Israel, but the Abrahamic covenant preceded this. Just as Galatians 3:15-18 says the law (Mosaic covenant) "does not invalidate a covenant previously established by God and thus cancel the promise." This promise to Abraham was a promise to be a father of many nations and to bless the nations. This blessing is Christ and for all those who are Abraham's true children, those who actually believe by faith. This point that one does not need to be a physical/blood relative of Abraham to have access to the blessing of the covenant can be seen in in John the Baptists dialogue with the Pharisees and Sadducees in Matthew 3:7-12. If the blessing of the Abrahamic covenant was directly tied to a genealogical bloodline and not to faith, then anyone who is not an ethnic Jew would be screwed as we would not have access to the promise/blessing of Christ. I can't go super deep into this here, but here are a few articles on this

Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 4 - Dr. Michael Heiser

In the last post, we talked about how certain views of end times are tied to certain views of the biblical covenants with Abraham and David, as well as the …

drmsh.com

Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 1 - Dr. Michael Heiser

Naked Bible enthusiasts (and despisers) may recall that, long ago, I posted a list of presuppositions that are brought to the Bible that ultimately dictate one’s position on eschatology (“end …

drmsh.com

 

[cgbills]

Always take what some lawyer says about their explanation of what a deity meant to have said with a bit of a grain of salt.
Especially when they are obviously trying to win an argument by making both sides happy.
Doubly when they are trying to lay out a new meaning for words that were settled and clear for thousands of years before them.

No just trying to do good biblical theology and understand how the NT, its authors and how Jesus understood the idea of covenant; how the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic covenants fit together. Also I would like to point out that the writings of the prophets show how the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy are not guaranteed to the nation of Israel just because of their genealogical bloodline. The prophets are calling the nation back to right covenant relationship with God. They had fallen into idolatry and thought they were "good" because of their genealogical bloodline. The prophets were telling them it was about right relationship with God and faith. The thinking that just being a genealogical/blood descendant of Abraham and having the law without having true faith is what brought about the destruction of the Northern Kingdom, The Babylonian Exile, and Jesus' and John the Baptist's rebuke in the NT. It is about faith (read Hebrews too)

 

[Maggot]

No just trying to do good biblical theology and understand how the NT, its authors and how Jesus understood the idea of covenant; how the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic covenants fit together. Also I would like to point out that the writings of the prophets show how the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy are not guaranteed to the nation of Israel just because of their geobiological bloodline. The prophets are calling the nation back to right covenant relationship with God. They had fallen into idolatry and thought they were "good" because of their genealogical bloodline. The prophets were telling them it was about right relationship with God and faith. The thinking that just being a genealogical/blood descendant of Abraham and having the law without having true faith is what brought about the destruction of the Northern Kingdom, The Babylonian Exile, and Jesus' and John the Baptist's rebuke in the NT. It is about faith (read Hebrews too)

True.

"By faith ye are saved and not by works alone."

Faith is important but our works certainly figure into it. You cannot say you have faith and yet violate the Golden Rule intentionally and consistently and expect ot receive the reward.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

True.

"By faith ye are saved and not by works alone."

Faith is important but our works certainly figure into it. You cannot say you have faith and yet violate the Golden Rule intentionally and consistently and expect ot receive the reward.

SMH
Absolutely not what it says, anywhere.

For by GRACE are ye saved THROUGH faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
Eph 2:8

 

[Blue Sky Country]

watched it live on TV..un fathomable amounts of energy

Going by the scale of 300 Earths = Jupiter, that fireball was the size of the entire landmass of Europe and Asia... And we are not adding in the shockwaves. Just the fireball itself. If that object had struck Earth, it would have not only obliterated and melted the entire surface, but would have ejected enough material into orbit to create another Moon sized satellite once the hot debris cooled and coalesced under gravitational contraction.

 

[Maggot]

SMH
Absolutely not what it says, anywhere.

For by GRACE are ye saved THROUGH faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
Eph 2:8

I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

[RGStory]

Well considering it costs $10,000/lb to launch material into space...

For the cost of a tomahawk ($1.59mil)...you can launch 159lbs of shit into space...

That figure has changed with Space X.

For fun:
The reported per kg cost of the last Space X supply mission was $2,720 per kg
or $1,236.36 per lb.
or a payload of ~1,286 lbs of tungsten per $1.59 million.
~1,286 lbs of Tungsten is a little over a cubic foot, meaning you would sacrifice ~20 tomahawks to launch one of those "rods from god" into orbit.


Since each rod has the ability to hover over targets indefinitely as a veritable sword of Damocles with little to no maintenance...
It's a good start!

Space is weaponized the moment we can easily traverse it. The first to do so will dominate any future war with any opponent that lacks the ability to do the same.

 

[pmclaine]

The moral of the story is if Angels come to your city, don't try to ass rape them.
Be happy with the virgins that get offered to you and go your way.

Angels get rather upset if you demand to ass rape them.

While no Angel, Im kind of contrary to it also.

 

[Maggot]

That figure has changed with Space X.

For fun:
The reported per kg cost of the last Space X supply mission was $2,720 per kg
or $1,236.36 per lb.
or a payload of ~1,286 lbs of tungsten per $1.59 million.
~1,286 lbs of Tungsten is a little over a cubic foot, meaning you would sacrifice ~20 tomahawks to launch one of those "rods from god" into orbit.


Since each rod has the ability to hover over targets indefinitely as a veritable sword of Damocles with little to no maintenance...
It's a good start!

Space is weaponized the moment we can easily traverse it. The first to do so will dominate any future war with any opponent that lacks the ability to do the same.

DC, Bejing, would solve many problems.

 

[pmclaine]

Try adding up the the death tolls of avowed atheists Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and (arguably) Hitler, and you have the bloodiest collection of murderers in history just in the last century. They committed their monstrous acts with little, if any, religious justification at all. Evil manifests in a lot of different ways.

Yet apparently we forgot the entire Twentieth Century yet still speak of shit hundreds of years ago.

 

[RGStory]

Should have checked my inbox before posting last night.

Right on cue, the DOD releases this gem as it relates to Space costs.

Global Missile Defense From Space Got More Affordable, DOD Official Says

The Defense Department hopes, within the decade, to have a meshed network of low Earth orbit satellites providing real-time global awareness of missile threats and the ability to respond.

www.defense.gov