I’m not an optical expert so I’ll defer to one that can likely summarize erector magnification and trade offs in a concise manner if he likes. He’ll have great insight into cost vs quality as well. My limited understanding is higher erector systems like 7x or 8x have “more complicated systems with more lens elements”. That’s the most concise explanation I’ve read. Lens/glass quality and the coatings make a huge difference in quality and cost. Hence the vast difference in scope costs. It seems a complicated algorithm of producing quality and still turning a profit.
Hopefully Ilya can help you out.
@koshkin
cstactical.com
If this is a direct to consumer type scope (to "supposedly" keep the prices down) how is it possible for a second party dealer to sell it for the same price as Bushnell does direct to consumer without getting a piece of their profit pie?We have the Bushnell ED 5-30x56 MRAD in stock!Bushnell MATCH PRO ED 5-30X56
CS Tactical - High Quality Optics including Zero Compromise Optics, ZCO, Zcompoptic, MRAD, 20 MOA. See our selection and get expert advice on the perfect scope for you.
The Viridian Xactus 5-30x56 selling through Optics Planet for $599.99 has a free returns policy within 30 days plus an additional 10% off discount just by asking through their online chat toget it for $539.99. I'd sure like to hear what you think after comparing it side by side with your Vector Optics Continental 34mm. You could buy it and plan to return it within 30 days for free after comparing it.I hear this for the first time — that an 8x erector is a liability if done for $650 street price. — (Just proves my ignorance, nothing else.)
Would you help me understand what the most critical issues are with a large magnification ratio that would require more $$ in order to be done well?
(I understand the challenge of the reticle being too thin/ too thick in an FFP.)
Is the effect of recoil a major factor — as 8x ratio is more sensitive than say a 4x?
Thank you!
Matthias
That sounds like a helpful comparison, add the Bushnell 5-30x and the Riton 4-32x to the mix, and see what shakes out.
ILya, I re-read your published article — wow, you have a way with words — not just with optics. Excellently done. Thank you!
I can tell you that the Sightron is everything it purports to be. You will not go wrong with it and will know that it hits above its level price wise. My opinion, worth what you paid for it.
However, my current assignment doesn't afford me the facility of ordering and simply returning.
➠ What I read makes me wonder if I should stop lusting for a 8-fold (4-32x) magnification range, and instead be happy with my 6-fold (5-30x).
If I still want that so-dear-to-me wide FoV at the bottom magnification... — well, there is the Element Theos with a 6-fold (6-36x56 FFP; with 100moa of elevation).
➠ But than... — for that price, the quality of an 8-fold will probably be good enough for my bad eyes. And in that case, I might as well just go Sightron S8 5-40x56 FFP (135moa of elevation) and never look back....!
Matthias
Seems odd. PM me with your Email and I'll have somebody contact you.
Just received my MPED direct from Bushnell.
I agree but I was only bit by one once and know why it happened.
Correct and that was one reason I purchased it, but the narrow depth of field it seems to exhibit isn’t ideal.
Okay, so you need to understand what it is you are saying. I believe what you are talking about is commonly referred to as ‘eyebox’, or the distance tolerance wherein you have proper eye relief.
www.opticsplanet.com
Okay, so you need to understand what it is you are saying. I believe what you are talking about is commonly referred to as ‘eyebox’, or the distance tolerance wherein you have proper eye relief.
‘Depth of field’ is another thing.
“DOF refers to the area of sharpness behind and in front of the subject.” The subject being what you are seeing through the lenses. I.E. the target.
Eye Relief
Eye relief is the distance your eye must be from the ocular lens and still get a full field of view.
Rifle Scope Glossary of Terms
Rifle scopes are confusing and Steve Ledin put together a glossary of terms to help guide you through. Check it out!
Okay, one more response, then I’m done. Why did you say this, and what exactly did you mean by it?
Because I apparently tossed a word salad. For that I apologize to this audience.
I am surprised you would rate the glass of the Match Pro (ED?) higher than the Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2. What about the MPED makes it superior?
For me the glass was ever so slightly better on the Athlon but the turrets on the match pro were superior than the Cronus I had. Then you take into account the cost and that’s what for me made the match pro slightly better overall.
Thank you for the explanation.
The problem is that “glass quality” becomes incredibly subjective to many people.
There are some comparison pics on Reddit, which is probably where the Viper killer status originated.
This is interesting to me as well, because I’ve only owned the Cronus btr gen 2, but have talked to others who owned both and they swore the glass was “night and day difference” in the newer model.
Yes, here is a screenshot of their response to my question of the difference between the Cronus BTR (Gen 1) and the Gen 2 vs the Ares ETR:
This is a great example of the marketing being the larger influence than the actual product improvements.
Wow - that is a horrible track record for a single customer to experience. Were all 6 replacement scopes the ETRs or have you owned other Athlon's?
So there was a defective lot / batch they knowingly continued to retail or is it a defect with all ETR glass?
Ilya,There is no clear cutoff in terms of what magnification ratio is acceptable at what price. Besides, that target shifts all the time.
I have more of a discussion of that on my website, but I am not sure if it is polite to post links to my website on someone else's forum.
I do have an article I wrote for Shooting Illustrated that talks about magnification ratios:
An Official Journal Of The NRA | How Much Zoom Is Too Much Zoom?
An optic’s zoom range, more properly known as its erector ratio, is often a selling point, but what does it really mean?www.shootingillustrated.com
ILya
Per my conversations with them, they KNEW their glass in that batch was fucked and they kept trying to send me scopes from that batch and they said that they had no other batches that were good, so I must assume that the entire ETR availability was affected as they are the mfg and if anyone could get a good one it would be them. I didn't see them pull a batch of ETRs from the market, did you?
what exactly was the 'systemic' issue?
I have the XTR3 and the Burris PRO and the MPED... To me the glass goes.. MPED, XTR3 and then the PRO.. The XTR3 and the PRO are close in glass.. I have shot the MPED in 3 matches now, I have it on a gun that I am trying to break in, I was able to make a match that i didnt plan on and took it for the heck of it, mainly to just get more ammo down the pipe. For $700 the MPED is a great deal..but if I had to let one go it would be the MPED..The DOF is a little lacking compared, and if a target is put in a dark area, like some woods, it lacks for sure.. as it should though to be honest because it is a good bit cheaper.. And I will say I HATE..and I mean HATE resetting zero on the match pro if you have to dial your zero down..up is ok..other than that, tracking, controls, all that works fine, and the glass does punch above it's $700 price point..but the glass is not in the same class as my XTR3 and the PRO.. To me there are 3 levels of scopes to make choices from, First level would be the Match PRO ED (used to be Strike Eagle), second level would be the Burris XTR PRO and the Third level would be whatever in the hell you really want.. All that being said, I have shot the MPED in 3 matches, I have a 1st a 2nd and a 4th, so it did not hold me back at all, it just cost me a little more time than what the XTR's would have.
