Night Vision IR Illuminator for PVS30 (Civi)

[The Durk]

Ok guys, so I’ve searched high and low on this forum and I’ve found a few answers and wanted to ask your thoughts.

Rifle: Accuracy International AT. I’m getting ahead of myself, considering I’m purchasing it next month. So any AT owners that could chime in, it would be appreciated.

Optics: Kahles K624I behind a PVS30 (buying the PVS30 this spring)

Illuminator options: This is where it gets tricky. I’ve read that normal IR flashlights tend to bloom the image, so I need an IR Illuminator/laser combo.
Option 1 EBay Peq-2 class 3
Option 2 EBay Peq-15 class 3
Option 3 (preferred) BE Meyers MAWL class 1.

I don’t like the first two options because it involves me buying something the .gov doesn’t want me to have. If it breaks, there’s no warranty repair and I basically have to throw away a $1500-2500 unit. A lot of people rave on how well the MAWL throws IR light out to ranges past 300 yards. My setup is designed for night hunting coyotes in Ohio and some long range night shooting in PA. I’m worried the AT might not be able to accept the MAWL due to it being designed to mount on a quad rail.

Any AT owners have a MAWL mounted on it?!
Or maybe any owners of AT’s that have an alternative IR Illuminators that they prefer?

And you AX owners hush with your quad rail. ?

 

[The King]

Look at the Luna Optics ELIR. Laser model. Works great.

Don’t get a used PEQ - stay the fuk away from any of that shit. Only buy anything that the .gov also uses new/reputable dealer style.

 

[The Durk]

I’ll check the ELIR out! I guess I forgot to say I want to use this Illuminator to get hits out to 600 yards.

 

[wigwamitus]

The Luna ELIR-3 happens to work out to 600yds !!!

We can help you adjust it, once you obtain one.

Make sure you get the ELIR-3 and not the EIR-3 !!!

 

[The Durk]

I noticed there’s a light version and a laser version. I also saw that TNVC has their Torch Pro MKII. That might be a second option.

 

[wigwamitus]

The ELIR-3 is a laser illuminator. Runs about $350 on Amazon last I looked.

 

[wigwamitus]

There a PVS-30 with the ELIR-3 on 3 o'clock, radius on top ... 5.56(18) rifle with xtr2 3-15x scr-mil ...

 

[Chevoke]

The torch is a great unit, but the Luna ELIR-3 will get you out there a little further and you have the option to adjust the size and intensity of the beam. I love mine.

 

[The Durk]

That’s exactly what I wanted to hear. That’ll be on the purchase list. I almost feel bad for the coyotes. Almost.

 

[CBDR]

ELIR-3 was my 1st illuminator and it is extremely helpful on those not so bright nights. Wig provided me with a little guidance to help me get the most out of the her. Truly an amazing piece of kit.

 

[Nate O.]

I've owned and used The Torch, an elir3 and the illuminator from ultimate night vision. The one from unv has been the best option for me

 

[tkp401119]

I have a PVS-30 and a SPIR Illuminator that works well in open spaces. Only issue for me is when I’m looking down a ranch road with trees on the side and it splashed too bad to be useable. Would the ELIR-3 have a tighter beam than the SPIR since it’s a laser?

 

[The King]

Yes

 

[wigwamitus]

Mineral feeder 415yds without ELIR-3

Mineral feeder 415yds with ELIR-3

It isn't an aiming laser ... but almost !

 

[The Durk]

The ARFCOM in me wants to buy all the above.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

AI offers a side rail kit that you may be able to mount the MAWL on or you can run a Spuhr and get a accessory rail to run it on the top.

I haven’t ran a MAWL but had a full power PEQ-15 and I wasn’t at all impressed with it as a LR illuminator as some claim. The illuminator itself I found pointless beyond 200 yards and the laser bloomed way too bad and is too narrow. I like my SPIR much more but I’m looking into other optics like a izlid or vslim.

 

[Terry Cross]

Horse in a pen. Star light only. PVS30 and MAWL.
Image taken with cell phone through the glass.
Image appeared noticeably sharper when viewing with Mk1-Mod 0 eyeball in real time.

 

[Terry Cross]

Small feed shed with same setup on same night. 2 different X
The MAWL has proven to be very effective and flexible under different circumstances.

 

[Nate O.]

Horse in a pen. Star light only. PVS30 and MAWL.
Image taken with cell phone through the glass.
Image appeared noticeably sharper when viewing with Mk1-Mod 0 eyeball in real time.


View attachment 6990896View attachment 6990897

Impressive...looks like full moon

 

[Strykervet]

Small feed shed with same setup on same night. 2 different X
The MAWL has proven to be very effective and flexible under different circumstances.


View attachment 6990898View attachment 6990899View attachment 6990900

You make me sick. You got the new WP model, not the refurbs most of us scored this year. That's damn nice, great pictures too, all the ones I tried sucked. There are ARDs for 'em on Ebay if you don't have/want one as well as new rubber covers. They're both FDE, which I'm sure matches yours just fine but my ARD required a bit of flat black to look right.

Yeah, for a civilian illuminator, the MAWL-C is probably where it's at. They're costly though. I've got an old PEQ2 and it gets the job done nicely on high at long range. Strong IR is the only way the image is useable if it's completely dark at long range. The noise and shadows will just be too much. Generally I cap the laser if I don't need it.

I know there are some long range LED illuminators but I don't know much about 'em other than they have a red glow. Supposedly some of 'em work really far out. Now I use Surefire V lights on some rifles, mostly SBR's, even if it has a PEQ, because nothing lights up the immediate AO like those do. For use with a PVS30 though they'll be practically worthless. They need something good for 1k-ish to everything out of it.

 

[The Durk]

....this forum is costing me a lot of overtime...

 

[WaltHer]

MAWL is certainly a more high quality illuminator than the ELIR, but the lack of focusable beam on the MAWL means it either works...or it doesn't. I found that even in long-range/high power IR mode it was lighting up trees between the target and me causing some backlighting. Still, it's pretty nice.

 

[wigwamitus]

Iirc the mawl shown price is $2,500 and the elir-3 shown price is $350 ... Is the mawl 7 times "nice"er ??

 

[CBDR]

Nice to know. The ELIR-3 has plenty of back splash from brush, limbs & high grass. I had no idea a Mawl was that $$$.

 

[WaltHer]

Iirc the mawl shown price is $2,500 and the elir-3 shown price is $350 ... Is the mawl 7 times "nice"er ??

I don't care for how the ELIR's beam can be "wobbled" with minimal pressure on its head, and because of that it doesn't hold zero. That's been a little dissapointing. That being said, I love that the ELIR's beam is adjustable for brightness and spot-to-flood. The ergonomics and build quality of the MAWL are fabulous. My vote is still out on the MAWL for long range work. I was able to illuminate and engage a 19" disc at 1019 yds with the ELIR. Haven't had the chance to try the MAWL past 500 yet, where I had the problem with its wider beam backlighting trees between me and the target. The MAWL is probably king-$hit on an AR though. I moved the ELIR to my spotter instead. Here's a pic of the ELIR at 1019 through a non-magnified PVS-14.

 

[WaltHer]

Also, minor beef with my ELIR is that it briefly cuts out right after firing. I'm not smart enough to post the video showing this, but it does briefly stop working immediately after firing and then comes back on. This hasn't caused a problem yet-because it happens quicly-but it doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[Terry Cross]

Haven't had the chance to try the MAWL past 500 yet, where I had the problem with its wider beam backlighting trees between me and the target. The MAWL is probably king-$hit on an AR though. .

BE Meyers is testing a variant of the MAWL that has at least 2 of the 6 modes dedicated to LR/Precision work. Narrower beam diameter selection on those 2 modes being the primary tweak. I have seen it be able to push into corners and tight spots without illuminating adjacent/closer objects that would washout the targeted object.

./

 

[300NIMP]

Very interested in this. Have a TNVC torch and peq 15 to go on my pvs27. Would like a combination of the 2 together.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Also, minor beef with my ELIR is that it briefly cuts out right after firing. I'm not smart enough to post the video showing this, but it does briefly stop working immediately after firing and then comes back on. This hasn't caused a problem yet-because it happens quicly-but it doesn't inspire confidence.

It's most likely the end cap, batteries moving under recoil. Depending on where/how you purchased it a warranty repair is in order.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Where does a Steiner DBAL A3 fall in relation to an MWAL?

https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-a3-0

 

[Namekagon]

We have a NV scope (gen 2+ or gen 3, its ATN's WPT so not sure) that came with the cheapo ATN IR850 B1 model illuminator. I'd like to upgrade to an option that would cause less bloom off of vegetation, especially on the periphery of FOV.

Previously I was thinking that the answer was something like the Torch Pro with much better focus control and variable power levels. Is a laser like the ELIR more of what I'm after? Or would I be better served with a higher wavelength light, and just go for a little eye reflection? It would be used on a 6x NV scope for coyotes. I had never heard of the ELIR before this thread.

 

[Chevoke]

To my eyes the ELIR has very minimal bloom especially compared to the Torch. I have both. I have not had the pleasure of trying the MAWL, but at its price point I’d say the ELIR will serve most for coyote hunting. With its adjustable bean and intensity it works in most all my situations here in central Texas.

 

[Dev L]

To my eyes the ELIR has very minimal bloom especially compared to the Torch. I have both. I have not had the pleasure of trying the MAWL, but at its price point I’d say the ELIR will serve most for coyote hunting. With its adjustable bean and intensity it works in most all my situations here in central Texas.

My ELIR 3 exhibits severe ringinging in all but very wide flood and very tight focus settings. About 70% of the settings you get rings of light with rings of dark in between. This is not an issue for unmagnified use as its not able to be resolved at 100 yards plus, but with magnification you will get an inch thick ring of light, inch thick ring of dark, inch ring of light, inch of dark, etc. The beam is composed of about a hundred such rings. As the focus gets tighter, the spacing between rings cuts down to where you cannot resolve it. As you get a broad beam, the rings loose focus and blend into one another. It is also very visible in the red color spectrum with filter removed, appearing as a deep crimson keychain LED of about 5-10 lumens with the naked eye at 100 yards. You have to remove tbe filter to get any power or range out of the ELIR3. I have also tried numerous other filters to cut the red but pass the IR and diffuse the rings without success to this point.

The SPIR prodices much better beam quality. It cant focus down as tight, but is better at 100 to 300 yards. I think the key to controlling bloom is variable output. By selecting just enough power to light up your target, the blooming white wall of light effect is minimized. This is why I think the SPIR is the best solution currently.

I think older versions of the ELIR worked better than current versions. The current version has a visible on indicator and polymer body. Original versions had no visible on LED and aluminum body.

If you need beyond 300 yards range it might be an answer, but in trying to use it as an illuminator with a PVS14 behind a spotting scope, it was worthless. It also was not an artifact of the spotting scope as walking down range also made the rings of light obvious and difficult to make out objects clearly.

 

[CBDR]

I also saw those rings but not in color. I thought I may have caused this by maybe some how creating a reflection and could have caused this. With my application (hunting) I have yet to shoot past 400. It has and continues to serve me well.

 

[derek1ee]

Got a ELIR a while ago, it works pretty good after the modification, however, the construction is just too cheap and I ended up returning it. Have a MAWL, but it says on my AR since I don't need aiming laser on a scoped rifle. Really hoping for something that's closer to Surefire quality in terms of hardware construction, and ELIR lights, happy to pay twice of what ELIR cost...

 

[Strykervet]

Where does a Steiner DBAL A3 fall in relation to an MWAL?

https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-a3-0

I can't answer that exactly, but based on what I know I'll try to put it in perspective. Civi lasers have to have an output of .7mW at some distance and radius. The low settings on PEQ's are identical, .7mW. Supposedly most are calibrated the same way. But with the MAWLC they measured the actual output at given distances and radii in order to maximize performance within the framework of the law or rule. That's it in a nutshell, I read about it once and it was explained to me by Vic I think but it's been a while. So 5mW at x+y distance and c radius will have the same output as .7mW at x distance and c-b radius. Light diminishes at the rate of 1/distance squared, so maximizing that at different distances is how I understand they were able to achieve this in a civi unit.

My question is if you used it on the high setting at closer range, wouldn't that negate the safety? Wouldn't it then be on "high" for all practical purposes? Or do I have it wrong?

Essentially your DBAL is a civi PEQ2 if no color laser and a civi PEQ15 with color and IR laser and IR illum. Low settings only. I don't know if the DBAL focuses the illuminator or not, the full power PEQ's do focus for flood or spot. On low, the PEQ is generally good out to few hundred meters. I'd suspect the DBAL to be equivalent, and whether or not it adjusts the illuminator to flood and spot also affects performance.

For long range or foggy, dusty poor conditions, the high power becomes more and more useful but generally a full power PEQ2/15 is too much. I only turn it to high if it's needed, and I don't keep it on for long. On flood, you can light up the AO downrange pretty good and on spot it'll light up the area out past a mile no problem and the laser goes farther than that. So they all have their uses, but even with a high power unit you'll find you use it on low mostly for a number of reasons and high only when there's a problem with low getting it done. For an AR aiming with the laser, a low power unit is almost ideal because you seldom try to zero one past 300 anyway.

For a PVS30, I'd really want something a little more powerful than that. It's good to what, 1000m? So an illuminator that can actually get it done at that distance is necessary. Doesn't matter what they call it or what they rate it, that's what you need. If one of the civi illuminators can do that, fine, that's all you really need for the PVS30. But you do need an illuminator to get everything out of a PVS30, that's a fact too.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Thank you.

In doing some more looking the DBAL A3’s illuminator is adjustable, but is so so at best. Definitely better than the ATPIAL C (which looks like a 100 yard range toy). However the DBAL D2 seems to have illuminator that is easily adjustable and is usable for 300, maybe even a little more. The D2 weighs nearly double what the A3 does. I’d love to see one in person.

 

[goatboy]

I picked up an ELIR and have a couple of questions.

1. is it ordinary for the lens/filter end to have some play in it? When adjusting the focus, it "wobbles". I havent fire with it yet but wonder the hide's experience on that point.

2. using it as a hand-held illuminator with some DTNVGs, the illumination isn't entirely "clean" on a white wall. It looks like there is some banding across the light and dust internally. Taking off the IR filter brightens the whole thing up but the banding and dust artifacts still project a shadow. I doubt that this would be seen in the field, but curious if anyone has experience. A MaWL i recently player with was sooooooo clean.

3. What is the experience with and wihout the filter? Am I to take it that we all pretty much just take it out?

4. Focus. Do folks open the focus up to meet the FOV of the scope or dial it in for center illumination? Alternatively asked, how dynamically are any of you changing focus in the field? Do you set it and forget or are you working it in and out of range?

Many thanks. Overall, it seems pretty cheaply made and I agree with a poster above that I'd double the price for a more solid unit.

GB

 

[newguy2k3v2]

The elir definitely does feel like a cheaply built device but it does work pretty well for what it is. The beam isn't perfectly "clean" like an led but still considerably better than a peq or la5.
There is some wobble on mine when you adjust the focus but I replaced the adjustment screws with thumbscrews so it's easily adjusted. Fwiw the peqs I've played with have a little wobble as well. I usually only illuminate a 5-10mil area.

 

[goatboy]

Thanks, a couple of questions.

Did you replace the windage/elevation grub screws with longer cap head screws or actual thumb screws that you can finger adjust.

Did you remove the filter or leave it in?

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Thanks, a couple of questions.

Did you replace the windage/elevation grub screws with longer cap head screws or actual thumb screws that you can finger adjust.

Did you remove the filter or leave it in?

Thumb screws. No filter