Night Vision IR Illuminator Mounts

[HonkeyMcGee88]

I have a PVS-30 on the way and need some advice on mounting my Torch Pro.

I tried out a friend's units first and we noticed how far off the beam was on the Torch when we went out.

What do you guys use to get the beam as close to centered up as possible with the scope?

 

[TNVC_Augee]

Where/how are you mounting it currently?

~Augee

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Where/how are you mounting it currently?

~Augee

I'm not familiar with that device but for an illuminator like the Luna or Surefire I just side mount on any rail far enough forward that it doesn't splash on the gun.

 

[TNVC_Augee]

Mounting it offset in something like a VTAC or one of the many other offset mounts will probably help to get it closer to the centerline and the sight line of the scope, either at the 11 o'clock or 1 o'clock should get it in pretty tight to the scope and the rail.

~Augee

 

[HonkeyMcGee88]

I do have a vtac but I thought it was going to hit the clip so I mounted it offset down which was not good at all.

Didn't have a wrench handy to correct it.

On a badger EFR with a torch pro. I guess I should have mentioned that. Should I clear the NV unit ok using the VTAC mount?

 

[benzy2]

I use one Burris Signature Zee ring and can angle a light to exactly where I want. Not the most solid solution in that it can be adjusted/bumped off target too, but it holds solid enough for hunting/target shooting. It’s also nice if you have branches or brush to one side in that you can point more away from the near obstructions quickly and easily. It’s even more handy for the cheap, China made lights that don’t necessarily center the output exactly to the body of the light.

 

[TNVC_Augee]

I do have a vtac but I thought it was going to hit the clip so I mounted it offset down which was not good at all.

Didn't have a wrench handy to correct it.

On a badger EFR with a torch pro. I guess I should have mentioned that. Should I clear the NV unit ok using the VTAC mount?

Unfortunately I do not have that exact configuration on-hand to test, but again, I would try to find an offset mount that will place the Torch closer to the centerline of the PVS-30. Something like one of the Unity Tactical or Haley Strategic cantilevered mounts might also help.

Finally, while it would be far from an ideal situation, using a railed accessory ring on your day scope (usually for mounting miniature RDS) and mounting the Torch offset to that may be an option as well. Nevertheless, I would still try to use an offset mount, as it will ultimately bring the Torch closer in than an in-line rail mount.

~Augee

 

[benzy2]

Why does it matter the offset? We are talking a maybe 6 inch offset? That’s nothing. The issue is lack of parallel mounting between the scope and the LED/lens. Moving it to a different rail can change the angle and may or may not make it better. Using a different mount with a different offset also can make it better, but just out of luck/tolerance and not due to offset change.

Have you tried loosening the current mount and rotating the light body? See if one direction is better. If that doesn’t solve it you either need a different rail to mount to (hoping it’s more alligned) or you need an adjustable mount.

 

[TNVC_Augee]

Over distance, the offset can matter, I acknowledged that it would probably require some trial and error to get it to work as desired, but a small difference in the offset can magnify itself over distance, any closer you can get the thing might help. If it is, as you say, a luck/tolerance issue, every little bit may help, hence my recommendation to try something offset to get it in as tight as possible.

~Augee

 

[benzy2]

To fix a 25 foot aiming error at 500 yards you can...
A.) aim the light/sight 1 degree toward the point of impact.
B.) move the offset 25 feet towards the point of impact.

One is doable, one is not. Offset alone won’t fix more than the change in offset. When saying “a little goes a long ways” you are talking angle and only angle. Offset goes a fixed ways. Angle is what matters. Changing the mount location may fix the issue, but the issue isn’t the offset. The issue is that as mounted, the beam isn’t parallel to the centerline of the optic.

Again, start with rotating the light in the mount and see what happens, I bet the beam moves significantly. If so and it gets better, all good and enjoy. If not or the wrong way, then try to track down where the angle error lies. Looking at it from the point of offset will only solve maybe 6 inches of your problem.

 

[TNVC_Augee]

benzy2, I’m not going to continue to argue with you because I’m not really sure where I disagreed with you in the first place. Your suggestion to try rotating the light in the mount is a good one that I never disagreed with.

Not sure why you seem dead set on manufacturing an argument because I suggested an offset mount to get the illuminator closer in to the weapon—especially considering that the OP specifically asked about mounts and mounting in the OP and thread title, at no point did I say that it was the only solution or that would fix all of the OP's problems, all I have done so far is to ask for baseline information about configuration details and tried to help the OP set up the weapon properly to begin with, moreover, with an improperly set up rifle, mechanical offset and angle may not be the only problems, but you’ve latched on to my recommendation of an offset mount as if I’d asked him to drown a litter of puppies.

I, and I’m sure the OP appreciate your contribution to the collaborative troubleshooting medium of the forum, but you seem fixated on my recommendation of an offset mount, so I’m not going to continue to try to argue with you over something you yourself are declaring a non-issue, the OP asked for mount/mounting recommendations and I gave one to start with.

Anyways, OP, let us know how it goes however you try to solve it, and please feel free to continue to reach out, publicly or privately, if you still need help resolving the issue, I just want to do my best to ensure you enjoy your NV experience to the extent I’m able to help.

~Augee

 

[benzy2]

Mounting it offset in something like a VTAC or one of the many other offset mounts will probably help to get it closer to the centerline and the sight line of the scope, either at the 11 o'clock or 1 o'clock should get it in pretty tight to the scope and the rail.

~Augee

That’s an effective 3 inch change down range, at any distance. It won’t fix a thing.

Unfortunately I do not have that exact configuration on-hand to test, but again, I would try to find an offset mount that will place the Torch closer to the centerline of the PVS-30. Something like one of the Unity Tactical or Haley Strategic cantilevered mounts might also help.

Finally, while it would be far from an ideal situation, using a railed accessory ring on your day scope (usually for mounting miniature RDS) and mounting the Torch offset to that may be an option as well. Nevertheless, I would still try to use an offset mount, as it will ultimately bring the Torch closer in than an in-line rail mount.

~Augee

Moving the torch closer to centerline won’t change more than 3”-6” of error, again at any distance. It’s bad advice that will cost money and fix nothing, both the part in the first paragraph and second about moving the torch. Plain bad advice.

Over distance, the offset can matter, I acknowledged that it would probably require some trial and error to get it to work as desired, but a small difference in the offset can magnify itself over distance, any closer you can get the thing might help. If it is, as you say, a luck/tolerance issue, every little bit may help, hence my recommendation to try something offset to get it in as tight as possible.

~Augee

Over a long distance it doesn’t change. You are wrong in your terms or don’t understand offset and it’s effects. Offset is fixed error. Angle is the key. You never bring up angle and only suggest offset fixes. This won’t functionally change a thing other than offsetting the OP’s wallet lighter.

I’m not trying to be rude. I don’t like the false info you are stating as being beneficial. I would expect you to correct me if I said things that were wrong as well. Your voice, as a TNVC employee and as your own, carries a lot of weight and I’d hate to see people waste time and money over suggestions that don’t address the problem. The difference between angle error and offset error is significant. Trying to fix an angle error problem through offset adjustments is an exercise in futility.

Again, how do you fix a light that is off by 25 feet at 500 yards? Through angle changes or offset changes? One works, the other doesn’t. Suggest offset mount changes all you like,but only an angle change is going to fix the problem. You are looking at minor changes when the OP stated the error was major. Literally nothing you have suggested for the reasons you suggest will change more than 6” of beam movement from where it is now. If a 6” change is enough, then it’s an effective answer, and that’s at any range you’re using.

 

[TNVC_Augee]

benzy2, again, I never disagreed with you, I am actively agreeing with you--your suggestion is a good one, and the OP should try it.

I may have gotten fixated on the fact that the OP asked for mounting recommendations, and approached the issue of mounting hardware a little more strongly that is necessary. You are absolutely correct--angle is more important than offset, and I have never remotely challenged that, despite not explicitly bringing up angle myself--again, I may have fixated on mounting, and mounts in particular, and for that I will apologize. However, your suggestion that mounting location has no relationship to angle is not necessarily accurate, either--you're assumption is that the light and optic line of sight are running perfectly parallel to one another, but as we all know, they are not, sights are adjusted both vertically and horizontally to intersect with the projectile's flight path, every adjustment you make beyond a perfectly centered reticle is introducing some amount of angle, minutes of it, even. In which case, the closer a fixed LOS device is mounted to the smaller the amount of deviation will be, at least to start with.

To reiterate, I agree that angle is more important than offset, and your solution for trying to adjust the angle of the beam itself is a good one, but offset is not fixed in the way you're describing it either, which is why most shooters will try to mount their optic as close to the bore as possible as well, full well knowing the two [or at least the two lines of sight] are not totally parallel, but the closer the scope to the bore, the less adjustment they will need (and yes, I recognize the irony that I've suggested in another thread in this forum the use of higher-than-normal mounted optics, but that is for a different application ). Will it help more than trying to move the beam if it's not well centered? No, I never said it would or present it as a 100% solution, but I also don't see what's so wrong with trying to set the best conditions for success with a good setup either, the OP can decide what to spend their money on or not.

I hate spending money unnecessarily just as much, if not more than the next guy, so your recommendation for trying to find a way to fix the issue without spending more money is well received, I've run plenty of sub-optimal setups when costs were a consideration, and I simply couldn't or didn't want to spend the money, and you've offered a zero-cost option for the OP to try, which I'm all for. I may have focused a little too heavily on mounts, because the question was about mounts, and my mind immediately went to mounts, I'll wholly accept that critique. But to make it out as if I'm physically reaching into OP's wallet to extract money is a little extreme (I just want to point out at this time that one of the products which I recommended is one that we don't even carry). I'm also not sure where you got 25 feet at 500 yards when the OP has indicated neither the range, nor how far "far off" in fact is, but I understand the rhetorical use of hyperbole to illustrate your point.

Again, to make it perfectly clear: I agree that angle is more important than offset, and have never argued that point.

OP, hopefully this has still been helpful for you, sorry for the inadvertent derailment.

~Augee

 

[Shifty6BR]

I too run the burris rings on top of a 45° qd mount after using a whole bunch of different types of light mounts. The ability to physically adjust the beam's path is nice and suits my needs perfecto.

 

[HonkeyMcGee88]

So here's the issue I ran into last night.

Went out with a friend and we were set up on a pipe line. Wide open space.

We noticed that when the other person had their IR on we could see MUCH better than when we used our own IR.

It was like you were looking through all the backside of the beam all the way down range and it would wash everything out.

Any of y'all experienced this?

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

My experience is that it happens when you are splashing on the gun and it creates a bloom. You can concentrate the beam or move the illuminator more forward to eliminate it. It can also be caused by lots of particulates in the air.

 

[softcock]

So here's the issue I ran into last night.

Went out with a friend and we were set up on a pipe line. Wide open space.

We noticed that when the other person had their IR on we could see MUCH better than when we used our own IR.

It was like you were looking through all the backside of the beam all the way down range and it would wash everything out.

Any of y'all experienced this?

-

I get that once in while if sitting, 'especially on windless nights' here, and get some light moisture film that will settle on the IR lens . IR will bloom badly down range even on a tightly collimated beam . The moistrure can be a very light film sometimes and you will not notice it there, but it will settle on cold glass and metal .

We got a lot lot of humidity here ( NW. OR. ) sometimes and you get moisture settling on all the metal and lenses as the night goes on . So I always just carry soft cloth in one pocket to dab on IR lens once in while to make sure it not going to bloom down range when the shot needs to be taken .
I make a habit, as soon as I an touch and feel any moisture settled on my suppressor (smooth cold metal) that is hanging out there . I will periodically hit the pressure pad on the IR once in while to make sure it clear .
.