- Nov 3, 2010
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Wouldn’t have happened if he went with the halo insert and not a jingle truck decoy insertion. Damn jingle trucks
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Night Vision IR lasers FP vs commercial
- Thread starter TxWelder35
- Start date
Thanks for the input guys, ending ordering a DBAL D2. Perst was really tempting but I’m inpatient and didn’t want to wait for a shipment from Russia, and also its Russian. Dbal it is. If I have issues seeing the laser deemed safe enough for me to own I’ll probably order the Perst or look for a FP dbal
And getting rc robots repoedYou roll into one ditch and it’ll be the epitaph on your tombstone.
Sound advice… if you’re a high speed dude schwacking Hajis or training to dance the mortal tango.
If you’re just a Lebowski trying to abide and schwack the random hog or yote and want to operate operationally on a budget, there are ways to do this — effectively — on the cheap.
Get a SF WL/Vamp and CQBL or a Perst or a D2.
Problem with forums is we all post based upon our myriad realities (or fantasies, in my case). TXW has a max budget of $1500 and it sounds like he’d rather not spend it all if he doesn’t have to. He’s not deploying from a Seawolf and doesn’t have ISR support.
Just me, but I say go native, stick a dagger between your teeth, travel light, and keep Benjamins in your pocket while getting the job done.
If you’re prepping for SHTF and want to fend off the Night Hordes, then max-out the Visa and pony up.
So much truth to this right here.
There is next to zero chance I’ll ever deploy any this stuff tactically while operating operationally. Not fast lining out of helos or using my super laser to signal CAS.
But I do not want my shit to suck. When I am larping in the woods trying to shoot something 4 legged or tactically operating my 4wheeler operationally I want to all to work and not be worthless junk.
In the event of shtf having any of this equipment and knowing how to use it is already putting you a massive advantage over the average joe.
If something is truly better for X reasons that make sense in the ways I’ll actually use it then fine I’ll spend the extra coin, but there is zero reason I would ever need anything better than a Perst/dbal d2 for what I’m using. I did contemplate Hortas suggestion but figured it was a less complicated system to have it all in one unit. Any money saved goes to gear I don’t have, and that list is long. But I’d rather save for good stuff and not buy Shit Chinese junk that works for 2 uses or just constantly sucks the entire time you use it.
I’m glad I read this it pretty much lines up with my research. The IR illimunator is just too weak in civilian units and I don’t want to dick around with IR flashlights so I ordered a Perst 3 today. It will be nice to have something that works the way it is supposed to.
Illuminator in the d2 is pretty good supposedly.
Don’t think you went wrong with the Perst 3 tho
These guys were pretty funny to watch. There is some video of each of the units being used
Agree with both you and @TheGerman for each respective use case, civie and OAF, respectively. All things equal I’d keep it simple with a FP PEQ15 and white light with a just a push-button on/off to avoid light ADs that sometimes happen with pressure switches as the German mentions . I’m going to be sticking a Peq on that rifle pictured on the prev page and moving the CQBL/Vampire+switch to another AR in a couple weeks or so as it does everything I want for a reasonable price.Sound advice… if you’re a high speed dude schwacking Hajis or training to dance the mortal tango.
If you’re just a Lebowski trying to abide and schwack the random hog or yote and want to operate operationally on a budget, there are ways to do this — effectively — on the cheap.
Get a SF WL/Vamp and CQBL or a Perst or a D2.
Problem with forums is we all post based upon our myriad realities (or fantasies, in my case). TXW has a max budget of $1500 and it sounds like he’d rather not spend it all if he doesn’t have to. He’s not deploying from a Seawolf and doesn’t have ISR support.
Just me, but I say go native, stick a dagger between your teeth, travel light, and keep Benjamins in your pocket while getting the job done.
If you’re prepping for SHTF and want to fend off the Night Hordes, then max-out the Visa and pony up.
I Hate weak-ass commercial illuminators; the D2 is the only civilian mf device that I know of with a good one but it’s also a brick.
I think the D2 will fill the role you’re looking for. Just think, the money you’re spending is investing against communism. That’s how I justify all my spending lol
"Here lies Horta RichYou roll into one ditch and it’ll be the epitaph on your tombstone.
Killed in a Swampy Ditch
Now Ain't that a Bitch"
Yep, that could have been what it said, but by the Grace of God and Sniperhide's love of Horta, fate saved you for another day.
(speaking as a happy Civilian) why do you like the SF WL/Vamp and CQBL-1 combo? I think it's only good on short ranges. The CQBL-1 viz laser is too weak to really zero past 25 yds during the day. The white light is bright but very wide, not a tight beam. The IR is the same and it's not that strong. You do get viz/IR capability but with units like Perst 2 out I don't see the appeal anymore.Sound advice… if you’re a high speed dude schwacking Hajis or training to dance the mortal tango.
If you’re just a Lebowski trying to abide and schwack the random hog or yote and want to operate operationally on a budget, there are ways to do this — effectively — on the cheap.
Get a SF WL/Vamp and CQBL or a Perst or a D2.
Problem with forums is we all post based upon our myriad realities (or fantasies, in my case). TXW has a max budget of $1500 and it sounds like he’d rather not spend it all if he doesn’t have to. He’s not deploying from a Seawolf and doesn’t have ISR support.
Just me, but I say go native, stick a dagger between your teeth, travel light, and keep Benjamins in your pocket while getting the job done.
If you’re prepping for SHTF and want to fend off the Night Hordes, then max-out the Visa and pony up.
I don't know why people say the IR illuminator in the d2 is weak. You can see out to 500 yds easily with it IME. Now, your observation device might not have good enough resolution to "PID" or whatever at that distance (ID'ing a stationary target with no color contrast is hard), but it will be bright. They must have a specific use case? I guess I need to get a high power IR laser illuminator to see, I'd been avoiding it due to the obvious safety issue.
If anyone wants high quality video of illuminators DM me and we'll work something out - I have a really good system and can record at 4X, wide angle, or even more mag. here's a video on the d2 at 4X. 100 yds away on a 7x12" target.
attached is a can at 25 yards away at 4X.
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My take on it is if a person can't Safely use a IR Laser Illuminator or Pointer, well they probably can't handle a firearm correctly either.
I am sure there are plenty of both.
But there are tons of people driving that should not be either.
Freedom means the consequences of Natural Selection are allowed to take their natural course, albeit Uncle Sugar has a different take on it.
everyone makes their own choices and i'm good with that. whether i personally want to take the risk w/ an invisible laser that can cause blindness is up to me.
Was just stating my take on the subject. Not saying you personally.
Treat a high power laser even more carefully than the end of a gun barrel and it's a safe tool.
The government doesn't want you to know this, but if you can aquire a IZLID and PRC-163, you can call in air support anywhere or anytime.
Don't tell Horta that. Next thing you know he will have it.
On second thoughts. He probably already does.
yes, and i wear 2 condoms when i sleep with your sis
You too? I thought I was the only one that did that when I slept with her.yes, and i wear 2 condoms when i sleep with your sis
2 page thread on the Perst series for those who wonder:
I pulled all the IR lasers I had in the house a couple years ago, didn't meet some of the above but not terrible
Agree with all those who say higher power has lots of uses even when not lasing hills miles away, and that there's a hell of alot of use for high power viz, not to mention slaving giving confidence the gun is zeroed easily, quickly.
I pulled all the IR lasers I had in the house a couple years ago, didn't meet some of the above but not terrible
Agree with all those who say higher power has lots of uses even when not lasing hills miles away, and that there's a hell of alot of use for high power viz, not to mention slaving giving confidence the gun is zeroed easily, quickly.
TxWelder35,
As someone newer to NV, not a door kicker, and mainly for something fun to shoot/hunt with at night... I have been happy with the CQBL-1 ($589 new) and either a SF 640V ($400) or Malkoff 250IR ($300). This coming from somebody that is newer to NV but started and still has a MAWL C1+.
What do I like about the CQBL-1? It has both Visible and IR lasers. They are also aligned allowing zeroing during the day with the naked eye. Now the red laser is not as bright as my MAWL, but I found it to be better than a lot of people make it out. Outside of the middle few hours of the day, it is very useable for zeroing. If your target is in the shade you can probably use it anytime of day. The visible laser is plenty bright to use in a house or if not using night vision in mixed lighting evening/night.
The CQBL-1 is pretty darn small and easy to mount top or side rail. It is also not too difficult to use it’s native button when left side mounted. Unlike the TOR, it has a Crane plug port for adding a switch. I have the newer Modlite Lite dual lead switch coming to use in this role as it is relatively small in size.
For a guy that is not door kicking, the CQBL-1 mounted on the rifle and the Arisaka Malkoff 250 IR on the helmet makes a pretty sweet package for out to around 200 yards. It also keeps the rifle light and uncluttered. The 250IR head has a good compromise beam of spill and focus for a variety of yardages that a guy with a PVS14 and laser would need. I had it out in mixed city lighting watching a raccoon recently, and the 250IR worked great out to 125 yards in a brighter city setting.
For a guy that wants more bases covered and not break the bank, the Surefire Scout 640V is a versatile choice. Whereas the Malkoff 250IR head gets out to 200 yards easily in most conditions, I would say the SF640V gets out to around 125 yards in most conditions. The white light is no OKW but it is certainly a reasonable amount of lumens. I quite like the spill and focus SF settled on for this head and 350 lumens. The runtime is also pretty good, around 2.5 hours white light and 16 hours IR. Mounted on the rifle with a dual lead switch, a guy can use with white light and visible laser in a HD role when no time to don PVS14. If time permits in HD role or when playing in the dark with the toys at night just turn switch on CQBL-1 to IR and head on SF 640V and you are good to go.
So I agree with TheHorta, the Vampire Scouts bring a lot to the table in regards to versatility/performance at a relatively good price.
Now the MAWL definitely punches out there to several hundred yards, looks cool as heck, and has a nice interface. But realistically, a guy with a PVS14 is not shooting out to several hundred yards.
I somewhat regret spending the coin for the MAWL given how well the CQBL-1 and above IR options work. The KIJI illuminator and a CQBL-1 also looks to be a good option for around $1500 price point if you want to punch out to several hundred yards for ID purposes.
TKAB
BTW - I was out shooting subs in my 300 BLK PDW with the CQBL-1 on left rail, no switch, and helmet mounted Malkoff 250IR last night at steel and had a blast!
- Nov 3, 2010
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That was an informative video, thank you. I'd love to see an MAWL in an urban setting (same distances) but competing with lots of white light.
Some of those illuminators have so much spill I doubt you could hastily lay prone in the tall grass and not have it bounce back at you.
Question for the group (as I have had laser and illumination bounce off of grasses in just such a situation) is the illumination from a FP unit bouncing back against your non optic (bare) eye as bad as having the FP laser pointer bounce back? If so, at what power level does the illumination become a danger too?
OTAL-C’s look nice as well.
Now though the CQBL-1 are under $600, almost half of what they used to sell for at full price. Given the current pricing, for a relatively small differential you get a coaligned visible laser.
- Nov 3, 2010
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Had thought about a dbal i2 or whatever it is called. We shall see how an illuminator comes into play for me. Most of any dark shooting I do is less than 100 yards in the wide open. This and my 14s aren’t the best FOM right now. Debating on upgrading tube to WP
This seems like a damn good deal
High spec 2500+ L3 WP and a free i2
NVG PVS-14 Gen 3+ WP L3 Gated/MG Filmless - FOM 2500+, SNR 35+ & Minimum resolution 72lp/mm w/L3 Tube Data Sheet Package
NVG PVS-14 Generation 3 WP L3 Gated Filmless - FOM 2500+, SNR 35+ & Minimum resolution 72 & L3 Tube Data Sheet Advanced Auto Gated US Gen 3+ White Phosphor L3 Tube w/ Manual Gain Mil Spec Optics Rugged Military design system Tactical Multifunctional Multi-Purpose Unit Hand held monocular Mil...
When shooting in the dark and activating supplemental IR light via an IR Illuminator, the Illuminator makes pretty much all Gen 3 and other tubes pretty much equal.
So a 3000 FOM WP will likely perform no better than a 1600 FOM Green tube when you kick on the IR Illuminator. Hecque, it seems that the Photonis Echo units give a better image at that point in the game.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,702
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Not sure I want to get another full set versus retrofit my existing L3/ITT single battery set I have now. There was a vendor here that had pretty good deals in Steiner lasers as well a while back.This seems like a damn good deal
High spec 2500+ L3 WP and a free i2
NVG PVS-14 Gen 3+ WP L3 Gated/MG Filmless - FOM 2500+, SNR 35+ & Minimum resolution 72lp/mm w/L3 Tube Data Sheet Package
NVG PVS-14 Generation 3 WP L3 Gated Filmless - FOM 2500+, SNR 35+ & Minimum resolution 72 & L3 Tube Data Sheet Advanced Auto Gated US Gen 3+ White Phosphor L3 Tube w/ Manual Gain Mil Spec Optics Rugged Military design system Tactical Multifunctional Multi-Purpose Unit Hand held monocular Mil...www.nightvisionguys.com
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,702
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I have played with nods for most of my adult life, I agree that an illuminator changes thing’s, even with my set now, I see the image dim down as the IR flashlight gets brighter. The only real downside to my 14s is the reason I got them so cheap. There is a small laser burn in zone 2. Hardly noticeable if out just looking around, so it will stay as is for now. When the time comes, and I have to upgrade is when a new tube will come into play. Once it gets to that point, I might as well upgrade as good as I can get and have a fresh set to play with.
This being said, I had my first set for almost 10 years and didn’t ever really use them. I traded them to a buddy and sometime later, regretted it. Found a set here on the cheap and figured why not. I’m making a point to try and use these more.
Good price on a rattle canned DBAL A3 for those interested
www.snipershide.com
SOLD - DBAL A3 w/ LEAF and Modbutton
I am located in Louisville, CO. I accept PayPal, Venmo, Zelle, and USPS MO. Not looking for trades at the moment. Just picked up a MAWL and am looking to sell my DBAL A3. The DBAL is in great shape and functions perfectly. Package includes Steiner dual lead tape switch, Modlite Modbutton (FDE)...
www.snipershide.com
I love me some Attila's!! They are beasts! Of course an LA5 and the FP MAWL would also be fun.
If you have to worry about the "danger" of a 50mw IR laser mounted on your rifle, you probably shouldn't buy a glock in case the operational end looks too much like a dick and you try to suck start it. Laser safety is similar to Firearms safety. I've only ever seen actual eye damage with Class IV++++ stuff, not saying it's not possible, just that it isn't common for a reason. The chinese lasers you buy on Ebay that can light shit on fire are an order of magnitude more dangerous than any DBAL or PEQ. Also high power illuminators (unless focused to a point) are of negligible danger due to the extremely low power density.
There are some dumbass's out there (not saying any of you are dumb). Just have to put it out there.
On one of the facebook NV groups I am on there was a story of a group of kids that like to play airsoft with LA5's on high power and izlids.
I am assuming "kids" is referring to better than 18 year olds if they are running around with LA5's and Izlids. ($$$$$) plus ability to obtain.
The above being said,
Well, Natural Selection, hard at work. The current Gene Pool out there today, could definitely benefit from a boost in IQ points.
Exactly.
With a NDF on the 50 mW IR Pointer (to get a finer aiming point) with the settings on dual high and the IR Illuminator opened up correctly as it should be, they are not that dangerous in reality. Albeit, one should always consider the duration and range of any living critter you are pointing IR at.
While actually out using the unit on the end of a rifle is pretty safe, the biggest safety issue is when you are done (unload the dam thing) by taking the battery out, so others not skooled, that may finger your unit, don't harm themselves etc etc.
Same as making any weapon safe when not in use.
This may be a stupid question but does the IR laser or laser illuminator reflect off of dust or muzzle blast and could that cause eye damage?
If it did every soldier wearing NV for the last 20 years is fucked
this site is a little more pro class iii IR since it's mostly about long range. probably related to that it also has a bit smarter and richer user base. check on other sites and you'll quickly see some people who have had issues.
Not stupid.
Yes, stuff reflects. But same as all the other threats of exposure. It's tiny bits getting illuminated and bouncing light all over. A tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the radiation is coming back at you then.
Happy to rant on about eye safety with lasers if needed. Lots of misunderstanding of what eye-safe means, and what damage mechanisms are. Army has public documentation on several of the early issues and they are interesting. A lot about, as stated above, know the equipment, and positively safe it when not in use.
Not to throw mud in the water, but for the price of some of these "gun specific" illuminators/lasers I could build one that would be orders of magnitude more powerful. Between diodes, host, power, and heatsinks these look incredibly expensive for how weak they are for the price.
Not that you need a 4W (4000mW) IR illuminator, but you actually could build one that powerful for about half of what most of these units go for ($800+).
Not that you need a 4W (4000mW) IR illuminator, but you actually could build one that powerful for about half of what most of these units go for ($800+).
If you can give FP lasers to a pile of Marines and they didn’t all blind themselves/each other it’s pretty much safe for public use.
@Fig Building a powerful laser can be done by anyone, building a weapon mountable adjustable laser that can withstand recoil and hold zero.... you cannot do.
