Is 14.5 the middle ground that doesn't matter any more?

[FatBoy]

Low wind?

East of the Mississippi we have trees and stuff . Maybe where he is in Utah is like that .

Not gonna lie. Wind at 600 was much more challenging with the 14.5s than my mk12 with the same ammo.

 

[powdahound76]

East of the Mississippi we have trees and stuff . Maybe where he is in Utah is like that .

Not gonna lie. Wind at 600 was much more challenging with the 14.5s than my mk12 with the same ammo.

Closest tree is over a mile away!

Up on a hill. Switching 10 mph that day.
Same hold with direction change and you were off the plate.
I tried.

I have a newer 16” that I need to shoot those targets with.
Much more accurate than the SR-15 and seems faster with a similar load.

 

[FatBoy]

Closest tree is over a mile away!

Up on a hill. Switching 10 mph that day.
Same hold with direction change and you were off the plate.
I tried.

I have a newer 16” that I need to shoot those targets with.
Much more accurate than the SR-15 and seems faster with a similar load.

I hear you. To 400 with a 77 things are pretty predictable. 500+ and it gets sketchy. Good head position and steady wind and everything is chill. Let offs and field positions, well, that’s what the young studs with bolt actions are for. I’ll pull security.

One of my brothers lives in Tucson. My daughters in laws live in Idaho. After spending some time out there, once I’m out of the PNW it’d be a Mk13 on my back with a 12.5 or 14.5 in hand. If it can’t be hit with a 230hr OTM, it probably should not have been engaged. God help any of us if we have to lung a 17# rifle at 50 years old. I can still do it, in kit, but I sure don’t want to. And it won’t be quick.

May be the bourbon talking, but this has me motivated to start my train up for this seasons run and guns. Fuck two torn labrum’s with impingements. God I still love this shit….

 

[powdahound76]

No run n gun for me.
Just no time.
3-5 rifle matches is as much as I hope for

No torn labrums here.
Good luck with those. PT or repair?


Am working back to better fitness here too.
Can hammer some miles with 50-70 lbs, but not fast. Weight will go up as mine goes down and speed will too.
Joy of being old, is I am meaner and stubborn AF, and those go a good ways to getting things done.

 

[SRPowah]

I hate the added bark of <12", don't need the velocity of the 18" so its just added weight and length, and I can P&W to meet 16" with minimal extra length for non-NFA compactness. That makes 14.5" perfect for my needs. But my needs are furbearers and other farm pest typically within 300 yards.

If you really want to ponder barrel lengths and their usefulness, think about how many bolt gun people are running everything from 16" to 30" with the same cartridges.

 

[Hoody2shoes]

Is this a shtf type thread now?

I would feel confident in a gun fight with my 12.5 slinging mk262s from 0-700y with my atacr. I routinely practice those ranges too. I strongly believe in the do-it-all category. I believe most people would be better suited with 1 gun they are insanely good with and can use their skillset to overcome its weakness' vs 5 guns they are semi familiar with where they try to use gear/accessories to overcome the deficiencies in their skillset

 

[FWoo45]

In kali so my go to carbine is a 14.5” it would be shorter if I lived elsewhere but it would also have a can. I like it well enough. 1-8 Credo recently replaced en Eotech. Still like it.

 

[bfoosh006]

5.56 is so weak at distance though, that it really doesn’t matter. I know a lot of people are used to calling 14.5” a rifle, but it’s best left in the carbine category.

When you run the numbers on 12.5”, 14.5”, and 18” out at 400yds even, it just doesn’t matter. Sure there are differences, but they are minuscule, in effect pole-vaulting over mouse turds.

400yds impact energy with 77gr Mk.262
18” 572ft-lbs (weak)
16” 548ft-lbs
14.5” 492ft-lbs
12.5” 459ft-lbs

The additional barrel length does not justify itself for performance on-target. The 18” RLGS suppressed will shoot much smoother though than the others due to port location/pressure.

14.5” really only sells itself for someone who is looking to have an M4rgery, or P&W for 16”. 14.5” MLGS runs pretty smooth with the right port and ammo though, one of which I have from BCM I built way back for a high volume CQM beater.

You can see the performance difference between 12.5” and 14.5” isn’t worth the extra length.

Go to a different cartridge and you’ll see significant steps up in energy on-target, which you will notice from shooter’s position with visual impact and audible feedback.

400yds impact energy with different higher performance cartridges from 12.5” barrels:
6.8 SPC 120gr SST 699ft-lbs
6.5 Grendel 123gr ELD-M 730ft-lbs
6.5 Grendel 130gr ELD-M 854ft-lbs
6mm ARC 108gr ELD-M 762ft-lbs

400yds .308 Win 12.5” for reference:
.308 168gr ELD-M 1053ft-lbs

The only places the 5.56 really sells itself are in commonality, mag capacity, and close range work. It’s easier to stay on-target with rapid strings of fire with 5.56 carbines. You’ll still be around 700ft-lbs of energy at 200yds with a 12.5”, and you can hear it hit hard at that distance. It really starts dropping off after that.

We have missed you and your informational input.... just sayin'

 

[Vynz]

People put such a stupid degree of importance on such trivial shit as a few inches of barrel length.

I don't get it.

Skill matters so much more.

We still talking rifles?

 

[Thorbeast]

14.5" pencil barrel is my favorite AR setup. Sure you can set up AR15s to do other stuff... But once you start trying to shoot at 600+ yards and you make a 18" SPR... Just shoot an ar10. If you are going to sacrifice the quick handling nature of the AR, step up to something more capable than 5.56.

My first AR was a mk12 mod 1 I built back in 2011, I still have it, but i never shoot it. It's probably the least useful AR I have.

If I'm going to shoot prone or off barricades at over 400 yards, I'd rather have a 16" AR10 in 308 or 6.5. barrels over 16" on ARs don't appeal to me, as you are getting to close in size/weight/handling to much more capable alternatives.

The AR is king of the carbines... The 14.5" is a great length. You can run a mid length gas system. Pin and weld so you done have to worry about SBR/pending pistol laws. Small enough doors, enough performance to hit out 500 yards easily.

I'm of the opposite opinion... Barrels longer than 16" don't interest me.

 

[LRRPF52]

Low wind?

In the morning before it kicks up. Points back to the fact that 5.56 isn’t so great at intermediate range.

I used to live in CO, so wind seemed to dominate much of the day, especially out in the places I liked to shoot.

 

[houndog]

Another CO resident (Western Slope). I've kind of given up trying to shoot long distance in the afternoon. Blustery winds between 5-20 mph that somehow manages to come from two different directions at once.

OTOH my local range goes out to 600 yards and finding places to shoot out to 1000 isn't all that hard. Of course there's currently 5 feet of snow on the ground, so it may be mid-June before I can get to those places.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

14.5" definitely has its place. Enough so that PewScience is dedicating their next line of suppressor tests specifically to that barrel length.

it basically gets you, with muzzle device (or can), a non-sbr shorter barreled setup. It will do just about everything that a 16" will do, and likely work somewhat better as a home defense setup. As good as a short barreled AR pistol for going around corners? Probably not..but still barrel length is a thing and many guys have no interest in the $200 ATF pocket liner pay to play deal.

Criterion recognized the niche as well, with "shorter than 16" AR's in their Core profiles..gotta be worth something.

Im building a 14.5" with a Core barrel now. Gonna see what it can do suppressed and non-suppressed. I also have a 16" with a Proof SS (my take on a recce), and an 18" White Oak SPR with a true SPR profile barrel. That will likely get upgraded to some higher end mid power glass to test the limits of 223.

Then I have my 10.3" gun that will be getting a suppressor next. This will be my home defense rifle. It previously was a host for a barrel detach kit, and a binary, and all kinds of shit that I would occasionally test for fun.

Long and the short of it, buy some extra barrels, build a few uppers, and see which you like the most. Then if you find your goldilocks length, build a lower for it.

Not much to lose here and if things ever DO get to a SHTF or CQB scenario..well you know the saying..one is none. You will be better off having a few options. Especially if you decide to join up with others who may not have gear but can provide in other ways.

Dont get too caught up on the "is it a proper SBR/Recce/Mk 12/Mk 18" bullshit. Unless you're trying to build fully accurate clones, no one gives a shit. And even then, they only give a shit because they're all too happy to spend YOUR money for you.

 

[RUTGERS95]

14.5 area is the sweetspot imho

 

[hlee]

For me, the issue with a 14.5 is that it is an SBR without a pin and weld muzzle device. Owning a few different suppressors, I’m likely to switch around brakes on occasion. The P&W makes this difficult, but the 14.5” barrel isn’t short enough- in my estimation- to warrant going through the SBR hassle (and I have gone through the paperwork before). If it’s going to be a proper rifle, get a rifle barrel. If it’s going to be a SBR, make it short. But, if a 14.5 tickles your fancy, who am I to say otherwise?

 

[Tex68w]

IMHO, if you're doing it right then every rifle/carbine should have its own dedicated can.

 

[hlee]

IMHO, if you're doing it right then every rifle/carbine should have its own dedicated can.

I’ll buy that, but with a few cans in the safe, I don’t know- a priori- which I want with what barrel, so I don’t want to be married to a welded muzzle device. And, if I’m going short, I’ll take a 12.5 and file the forms.

 

[Tex68w]

My first SBR twelve years ago was a LMT in a 14.5” and that’s the only reason I still run one. I have multiple others in both 556 and other calibers in much shorter variants and those get most of the use.

 

[ut755ln]

I have a 14.5 Franken gun that is my general purpose rifle. With all the rage seeming to be 18" precision rifles or 10.5"--13.7" Am I just stuck in the past with my M4gery as a rifle that does everything OK but nothing well?

This is just me so take it for what it is worth. I currently have two two SBRs, one 14.5"and just got the 16 inch Sig LT Spear in 5.56. I like the longer rifles and at this point and will likely never go shorter than 14.5 again. I am not clearing anything with my AR and if I had to, I am not good enough that I would be disadvantaged with 3 to 6 inches of additional barrel.

 

[simonp]

I’m currently trapped in the PRK for another year or two at least so 14.5 isn’t an option here. I’ve no complaints about either 16” or 18” barrels personally. When I escape to freedom I’ll likely consider 14.5 with a can for the home, that seems to be the one application I can see it well suited for.

 

[nick338]

If my piece of shit state would allow it, I would run an 11.5 with a suppressor and call it a day. I like the 77 TMK for defensive scenarios and if you keep the velocity around 2500-2550 it still expands and fragments out to 400 yards. If I need to go further out I'm probably looking for a different rifle

But since NY thinks I will do terrible and evil things with an SBR and a suppressor I'm doing things a little differently.

 

[rlsmith1]

I’m currently trapped in the PRK for another year or two at least so 14.5 isn’t an option here. I’ve no complaints about either 16” or 18” barrels personally. When I escape to freedom I’ll likely consider 14.5 with a can for the home, that seems to be the one application I can see it well suited for.

If my piece of shit state would allow it, I would run an 11.5 with a suppressor and call it a day. I like the 77 TMK for defensive scenarios and if you keep the velocity around 2500-2550 it still expands and fragments out to 400 yards. If I need to go further out I'm probably looking for a different rifle

But since NY thinks I will do terrible and evil things with an SBR and a suppressor I'm doing things a little differently.