Is it me the gun or the ammo

[Wrencoforge]

Hi, I have a Savage mkii g.. yeah the one with the skinny barrel and iron sights..
having a hard time getting it to shoot consistently.
mainly been shooting cci sv as I can get it locally.
My problem is that I’ll shoot four shots all touching then two more an inch or more away, also both touching... having a very hard time getting anything consistent..
Maybe someone who knows more about shooting than me can give me a hint, is it me? The rifle? The ammo? I understand I should be testing more types of ammo, but I hate to put in the money on a gun that’s not shooting right.. or if it’s me for that matter..
Any help is appreciated, thanks.

 

[littlepod]

Hi, I have a Savage mkii g.. yeah the one with the skinny barrel and iron sights..
having a hard time getting it to shoot consistently.
mainly been shooting cci sv as I can get it locally.
My problem is that I’ll shoot four shots all touching then two more an inch or more away, also both touching... having a very hard time getting anything consistent..
Maybe someone who knows more about shooting than me can give me a hint, is it me? The rifle? The ammo? I understand I should be testing more types of ammo, but I hate to put in the money on a gun that’s not shooting right.. or if it’s me for that matter..
Any help is appreciated, thanks.

If you want to really see if it's the ammo, get or borrow a chrono. Non match ammo will have huge extreme spreads.

 

[lead.rain]

How fast are you shooting your groups?

 

[Wrencoforge]

i guess I’d have to time it, but fairly quickly.. certainly not rushing but not dawdling either. Certainly not claiming to be the best shooter out there, but I like to think I’m pretty honest with myself when the crappy shot is on me..

the chronograph isn’t a bad idea.. different speeds would certainly account for different points of impact. Not sure why I’d get three or four at one point and then a couple at another though.. if it was just variation in velocity I’d expect it to be more random?

 

[lead.rain]

In a perfect world, variation in velocity will present itself as vertical stringing.

The reason I ask how fast you're shooting is the potential for POI shift due to a hot barrel. Just one possibility, as you mentioned it was more of a sporter contour.

 

[Wrencoforge]

Thanks for the insight. That’s something I can definitely check.

 

[Reverie Ranges]

There are many different things that can cause your problem. Trigger pull, breathing, sight alignment, etc. The question you should ask yourself is: Are the results that you are getting good enough for what the purpose of your shooting? If you are looking for precision shooting, you should invest into better products. If it is just for coyotes, are you on target for the range you are shooting? Are you just plinking paper at 200m? Precision shooting is more than just pulling the trigger...

 

[acudaowner]

It could be all three sounds more like shooter erra , but that's me I tend go with the weakest link in my gear me and the things I do wrong not listening to that little inner voice screaming not to touch the trigger that strangely reminds me of sam kinison when I know i am doing something wrong like the stock not being properly seated in my shoulder or I am not aligned with the rifle when I forget to breath or try to speed up , when I know I am in no hurry . Don't let it frustrate you and for the love of god don't give up . Good luck and with practice you will get it .

 

[lead.rain]

This is something we all can battle with at times. It can definitely be beyond frustrating, but that's part of the fun.

 

[AKMarty]

What type of cases? Caliber? Not familiar with the rifle. I had nickel plated factory ammo act like really hot loads to include very difficult extraction. Groups like you are describing. As soon as I switched to brass cases it was gone.

 

[mick243]

It’s probably a combination of all three factors.

whilst cc’ing sv are reasonably good in most factory guns, they do get fliers.

if it’s just an untouched factory gun, your results seem pretty good. Iron sights aren’t as precise/accurate as good glass

what positions are you shooting from? Prone, bench, standing, etc? Using a rest, bipod, sandbags? Are you moving at all between shots - slight change of position will change poi, as will a change in how you hold the gun.

 

[Wrencoforge]

Rifle is 22lr with 6-24x50 Athlon Argos.. shooting from bench with bags. Weather is mid thirties, sometime light snow or rain..

It’s sounding like a big part of it is me, and maybe a lack of consistency in my technique.
I’ll keep at it, and maybe try some different ammo.
Thanks for the advice

 

[justin amateur]

CCI has been having problems with quality control.
My purchases have shown multiple cartridge defects.
The worst being bullet material compressed down over the crimp
creating an irregular shaped skirt around the base of the bullet.
This causes odd strays that aren't velocity related.
Use high end ammunition before blaming yourself or the rifle.
Spend the money on some SK Biathlon Sport or CenterX.
Go all out and try some Midas+ or Tenex.

 

[Cuzz]

CCI has been having problems with quality control.
My purchases have shown multiple cartridge defects.
The worst being bullet material compressed down over the crimp
creating an irregular shaped skirt around the base of the bullet.
This causes odd strays that aren't velocity related.
Use high end ammunition before blaming yourself or the rifle.
Spend the money on some SK Biathlon Sport or CenterX.
Go all out and try some Midas+ or Tenex.

And try indoors if possible, i think shifting light wind can cause 3 shots here and 2 there.

 

[Wrencoforge]

Maybe a stupid question, are most people ordering ammo online?

 

[Cuzz]

Ive read that below 40 affects 22lr

 

[Cuzz]

Maybe a stupid question, are most people ordering ammo online?

Good Shooting
Champions Choice
But i don’t know if either one carries cci

 

[justin amateur]

99% of my ammo purchases are made on line.
Find the best price per round with lowest shipping cost.
Combine my rimfire purchases with my reloading supplies.
Some of the on line retailers have flat rate shipping.
Do your homework before ordering.
Lowest price per round is usually balanced by highest shipping cost.

 

[NighthawkCG]

You didn't indicate the distance you are shooting at, but it sounds like shooter error. I shoot CCI SV through my savage FVSR with no problems. At 50 yards it will easily hold under an inch regardless of temp. Assuming you are under 100yds, I do not think ammo is the problem.

That being said, the MKIIs are known for being a bit torque sensitive. It may be worth it for you to try different torque settings on the action screws. Also, make sure you have a good crown on the barrel. Some people have had really good results re-crowning if needed. Take a q-tip and run it around the crown and see if any cotton is pulled of with burrs etc. If not - good to go. If so, maybe look at touching it up. This should take care of the rifle end. I do not think barrel temp is an issue in a bolt 22 in mid-30s...

Lastly - make sure your NPA is correct and everything is consistent shot to shot. Hope this helps.

 

[Eoddave27]

My guess is your rifle doesn’t like the ammo. I have a rifle that will consistently shoot .25 groups at 50 yards with Eley or Lapua ammo. As soon as I put non match ammo in it everything goes to crap. It’s the craziest thing I have ever seen. It will put 3-4 rounds all touching then throw one an inch or more outside the group. I have no clue why it does it but it shoots match ammo so well I don’t really care.

 

[vaguru]

You didn't mention conditions, other than snow or rain. Wind shifts, light changes all make a very real problem. Learning to read the conditions, and either wait them out or correct for the change makes a huge difference in POI.

All the other comments on shoulder pressure, cheek pressure, breathing, trigger control, etc are of utmost importance.

You didn't say how long you have been shooting, how much experience you have, so I have to think it is a combination of conditions, experience and possibly ammo.

I have 2 different lots of CCI SV I bought last year that consistently shoot 5/8" average at 100 yds through my RPR rimfire. I would not rule out the ammo, but I feel my last comment to be more accurate.

Keep shooting, you will get better.

 

[CodeMonkey]

As has been suggested, try some quality ammo and see what groups look like. Lapua Center-X, Eley Team or Match, and SK Rifle Match seem to be pretty consistent and not ridiculously expensive. My T1x really likes SK Pistol Match Special for whatever reason. The only way to know is to try them out. MidwayUSA has been pretty consistently running "free shipping over $49* specials for a while now and I've taken advantage of that to try out many different types of ammo.

I've had similar results with CCI SV. Two or three shots will group pretty good and then the remaining might form another group or just end up scattered around. ES and SD numbers tend to run high for CCI and you can visibly see deformation of the bullets on many rounds.

CCI SV is better than other CCI varieties, but still pretty inconsistent. The higher quality (and higher priced) stuff is much more consistent.

Check out chrony numbers written across the tops of the targets. Center-X is way more consistent. SV has about 2.5X the ES and SD (scatter) of Center-X. Usually, better ammo = better groups.

(The upper-left groups on these targets are the first 5 shots after switching ammo so I count those as "foulers" and don't include them in group averages)

 

[AKMarty]

What type of cases? Caliber? Not familiar with the rifle. I had nickel plated factory ammo act like really hot loads to include very difficult extraction. Groups like you are describing. As soon as I switched to brass cases it was gone.

Disregard. My comment was w/r to ceterfire.

 

[EddieE]

i would order ammo from Graf and sons. Buy a bunch of different ammo, one low cost shipping no matter how many you buy.

See if your barrel gets warm. i don't know if 22 barrels get noticeably warm. If they do, you might be getting mirage effects. My 22 has a pretty thick barrel and I haven't seen it warm up at all. My 223 on the other hand causes significant mirage after about 5-6 rounds.

 

[Lesloan]

Maybe a stupid question, are most people ordering ammo online?

Buying ammo on line is the only way I can get the good stuff. If you buy in small quantities shipping costs can eat you up. By the case shipping costs are just lost in the noise. But you will, of course, want to be really sure you want what you're gonna get, 'cuz you'll have plenty of it! Lot testing is advisable.

 

[MarkCZ]

Hi, I have a Savage mkii g.. yeah the one with the skinny barrel and iron sights..
having a hard time getting it to shoot consistently.
mainly been shooting cci sv as I can get it locally.
My problem is that I’ll shoot four shots all touching then two more an inch or more away, also both touching... having a very hard time getting anything consistent..
Maybe someone who knows more about shooting than me can give me a hint, is it me? The rifle? The ammo? I understand I should be testing more types of ammo, but I hate to put in the money on a gun that’s not shooting right.. or if it’s me for that matter..
Any help is appreciated, thanks.

shooting in cold weather can cause accuracy problems in rimfire's. First thing check torque of action screws. Next get some better ammo.. I like CCI SV, but try some SK Std+ and Rifle match or Wolf match Target and Match Extra. SK is Lapua, Wolf is Eley. See if the ammo change helps.

Mark

 

[Wrencoforge]

So after a few months of frustration I finally got that gun to shoot a decent group!!
Stopped by my LGS on my way home from work today and picked up a box each of the two match ammos they had..
Tried the Federal hv match. Shot the better part of the box, unable to get an inch group at 50yds..
then tried Gemtech 42g match subsonic. Was getting dark so only got to shoot two 5 round groups. (No fouling groups) First shot was low.. second shot was overlapping first, same with third and so on.. I’m attaching a pic of this one, since it’s the first 5 shots with this ammo and the best group I’ve ever had with this gun.
second group was almost as good.
The overlay in pic says 100yds, I can’t change that so the MOA is half what it really is.. measurements are on though.
Anyway, thanks for all the great advice!! Still looking at the Tikka ?, but couldn’t be happier to finally figure out what’s been going on.

 

[chevy_man]

Federal doesn't make any match ammo worth bothering with anymore.

Find some eley, Lapua, Wolf, or SK.