I am new to long range shooting but i have a .308 built by George Gardner. I was shooting it for first time at 500yds after sighting in at 200. I shot a 5 shot group at 500 and the group measured exactly 2", 3 shots were less than an inch apart but two were nearly 1" high. I dont have the equipment or know how to reload and was using Federal gold match 168, Ive always shot well but never had any formal training other than rifle quals and training with m16, just curious if the veterans on here thought maybe it was me or the ammo, i have done some research and fully confident it wasnt the gun.
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is it the bullet or me?
- Thread starter AllenBrown
- Start date
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Looks to me the guns likes the ammo and you also did your part if you both shot that well. Sometimes a new shooter that hasn't learned bad habits picks up on this better than others. If you duplicate that a few times out you are one of the luckier ones.
Don't get too cocky and slack off on what you're doing right, sometimes when things seem to easy we get lax about it and then start to blame equipment.
Good job
Topstrap
Looks to me the guns likes the ammo and you also did your part if you both shot that well. Sometimes a new shooter that hasn't learned bad habits picks up on this better than others. If you duplicate that a few times out you are one of the luckier ones.
Don't get too cocky and slack off on what you're doing right, sometimes when things seem to easy we get lax about it and then start to blame equipment.
Good job
Topstrap
Re: is it the bullet or me?
2 inches at 500 yards. Oh my that's horrible!
Haha dude don't sweat a 1 inch vertical at 500 yards. That's actually very good. I'd take that any day with a smile. I agree with Topstrap though- don't get cocky and slack off. Keep on driving targets like that though.
2 inches at 500 yards. Oh my that's horrible!
Haha dude don't sweat a 1 inch vertical at 500 yards. That's actually very good. I'd take that any day with a smile. I agree with Topstrap though- don't get cocky and slack off. Keep on driving targets like that though.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Oh I was thrilled with it, just didn't know if that vertical part was me or maybe a slight difference in the ammo, I always read these articles how just the tiniest bit of powder change or any variance in the ammo can make a big difference
Oh I was thrilled with it, just didn't know if that vertical part was me or maybe a slight difference in the ammo, I always read these articles how just the tiniest bit of powder change or any variance in the ammo can make a big difference
Re: is it the bullet or me?
There's no need to wonder, proper shooter/target analysis will reveal your source/s of error. Inconsistent velocity can cause the sort of vertical dispersion you're getting; but, an inconsistent perspective of aim, aggravated by an inconsistent butt to shoulder, or inconsistent stock-weld can also produce the sort of error you're getting. One thing for sure, you must learn to analyse, it's how you develop your marksmanship skill to get to the highest plateaus. Be cognisant of the 5 factors of a steady position; and, remember, to maximize the perfect rifle and ammunition, the shooter can be no less than perfect too in his relationship with the gun and ground. Perfection is the objective for every shot within the string of fire.
There's no need to wonder, proper shooter/target analysis will reveal your source/s of error. Inconsistent velocity can cause the sort of vertical dispersion you're getting; but, an inconsistent perspective of aim, aggravated by an inconsistent butt to shoulder, or inconsistent stock-weld can also produce the sort of error you're getting. One thing for sure, you must learn to analyse, it's how you develop your marksmanship skill to get to the highest plateaus. Be cognisant of the 5 factors of a steady position; and, remember, to maximize the perfect rifle and ammunition, the shooter can be no less than perfect too in his relationship with the gun and ground. Perfection is the objective for every shot within the string of fire.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Well sub 1/2 MOA at 500 yds. is a group almost everyone would be content with. It's really not possible to determine the reason for the spread with just one 5 shot group though.
Well sub 1/2 MOA at 500 yds. is a group almost everyone would be content with. It's really not possible to determine the reason for the spread with just one 5 shot group though.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EXTREMEPREJUDICE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well sub 1/2 MOA at 500 yds. is a group almost everyone would be content with. It's really not possible to determine the reason for the spread with just one 5 shot group though.</div></div>
Following through makes calling the shot possible; and, correlating it to the strike makes it possible to analyse every shot, whether on or off call.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EXTREMEPREJUDICE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well sub 1/2 MOA at 500 yds. is a group almost everyone would be content with. It's really not possible to determine the reason for the spread with just one 5 shot group though.</div></div>
Following through makes calling the shot possible; and, correlating it to the strike makes it possible to analyse every shot, whether on or off call.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Good shooting. Food for thought though... Lets say it was shots 4 and 5 that were 1 inch high. Could have easily been thermals raising the bullet in flight, could of just hit the thermals at differnt times. Could be cheek weld but honestly even with FGMM thats great consistancy.
Good shooting. Food for thought though... Lets say it was shots 4 and 5 that were 1 inch high. Could have easily been thermals raising the bullet in flight, could of just hit the thermals at differnt times. Could be cheek weld but honestly even with FGMM thats great consistancy.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Following through makes calling the shot possible; and, correlating it to the strike makes it possible to analyse every shot, whether on or off call. </div></div> Uh, huh.............if you can take a new rifle and factory match ammo with your first 5 shot session determine the causality for a ES of 1 inch at 500 yds your skills and abilities are far superior to mine so I'll just have to bow out of this discussion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Following through makes calling the shot possible; and, correlating it to the strike makes it possible to analyse every shot, whether on or off call. </div></div> Uh, huh.............if you can take a new rifle and factory match ammo with your first 5 shot session determine the causality for a ES of 1 inch at 500 yds your skills and abilities are far superior to mine so I'll just have to bow out of this discussion.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
seen it done, done it myself. People new to long range shooting may need to practice it but new rifle or one thats well used with time and experience you should be able to call every shot.
p.s. It was his first 5 shots at 500 yards not his first 5 shots.
seen it done, done it myself. People new to long range shooting may need to practice it but new rifle or one thats well used with time and experience you should be able to call every shot.
p.s. It was his first 5 shots at 500 yards not his first 5 shots.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Please...anyone that can <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> call 0.2 MOA (1") differences between shots at 500 yd using factory ammo ought to win every comp they enter with a perfect score. In addition to shooter error, that kind of variability in POI can also come from almost anything, including wind, MV, parallax, projectile variations, and likely even changes in the phase of the moon. Are there some that can do it? I'm sure there are, but most cannot.
To the OP, great shooting and very impressive!
Please...anyone that can <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> call 0.2 MOA (1") differences between shots at 500 yd using factory ammo ought to win every comp they enter with a perfect score. In addition to shooter error, that kind of variability in POI can also come from almost anything, including wind, MV, parallax, projectile variations, and likely even changes in the phase of the moon. Are there some that can do it? I'm sure there are, but most cannot.
To the OP, great shooting and very impressive!
Re: is it the bullet or me?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please...anyone that can <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> call 0.2 MOA (1") differences between shots at 500 yd using factory ammo ought to win every comp they enter with a perfect score. In addition to shooter error, that kind of variability in POI can also come from almost anything, including wind, MV, parallax, projectile variations, and likely even changes in the phase of the moon. Are there some that can do it? I'm sure there are, but most cannot.
To the OP, great shooting and very impressive! </div></div>
Calling the shot is about where the sight appeared to be as the bullet cleared the barrel. The shot will either be on or off call; and, on or off call, the shooter can use the call to quickly discern the source/s of shooter/target error. Only very inexperienced shooters here would perceive that to call a shot means to recognize bullet placement in a fine unit of measurement from zero displacement condition. Instead, shooters should understand a useful call is one which merely describes where the bullet strike should be as referenced to a hand on a clock.
The value of calling the shot is that it supports shot analysis. For example, a shot called at 3 o'clock and confirmed by a strike at 3 o'clock eliminates wind as a source of error but makes poor trigger control a possible concern. Also, using the same example, the shooter can conclude there is no need to adjust the sights since the shot went where expected. On the other hand, if the shooter called the shot right-in-there, but the strike was at 9 o'clock, the shooter might have reason to adjust the sight or rethink wind counter. At any rate, an experienced shooter can easily call his shots to the decimal target's value in addition to its placement on the clock.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please...anyone that can <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> call 0.2 MOA (1") differences between shots at 500 yd using factory ammo ought to win every comp they enter with a perfect score. In addition to shooter error, that kind of variability in POI can also come from almost anything, including wind, MV, parallax, projectile variations, and likely even changes in the phase of the moon. Are there some that can do it? I'm sure there are, but most cannot.
To the OP, great shooting and very impressive! </div></div>
Calling the shot is about where the sight appeared to be as the bullet cleared the barrel. The shot will either be on or off call; and, on or off call, the shooter can use the call to quickly discern the source/s of shooter/target error. Only very inexperienced shooters here would perceive that to call a shot means to recognize bullet placement in a fine unit of measurement from zero displacement condition. Instead, shooters should understand a useful call is one which merely describes where the bullet strike should be as referenced to a hand on a clock.
The value of calling the shot is that it supports shot analysis. For example, a shot called at 3 o'clock and confirmed by a strike at 3 o'clock eliminates wind as a source of error but makes poor trigger control a possible concern. Also, using the same example, the shooter can conclude there is no need to adjust the sights since the shot went where expected. On the other hand, if the shooter called the shot right-in-there, but the strike was at 9 o'clock, the shooter might have reason to adjust the sight or rethink wind counter. At any rate, an experienced shooter can easily call his shots to the decimal target's value in addition to its placement on the clock.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please...anyone that can <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> call 0.2 MOA (1") differences between shots at 500 yd using factory ammo ought to win every comp they enter with a perfect score. In addition to shooter error, that kind of variability in POI can also come from almost anything, including wind, MV, parallax, projectile variations, and likely even changes in the phase of the moon. Are there some that can do it? I'm sure there are, but most cannot.
To the OP, great shooting and very impressive! </div></div>
Calling the shot is about where the sight appeared to be as the bullet cleared the barrel. The shot will either be on or off call; and, on or off call, the shooter can use the call to quickly discern the source/s of shooter/target error. <span style="color: #FF0000">Only very inexperienced shooters here would perceive that to call a shot means to recognize bullet placement in a fine unit of measurement from zero displacement condition.</span> Instead, shooters should understand a useful call is one which merely describes where the bullet strike should be as referenced to a hand on a clock.
The value of calling the shot is that it supports shot analysis. For example, a shot called at 3 o'clock and confirmed by a strike at 3 o'clock eliminates wind as a source of error but makes poor trigger control a possible concern. Also, using the same example, the shooter can conclude there is no need to adjust the sights since the shot went where expected. On the other hand, if the shooter called the shot right-in-there, but the strike was at 9 o'clock, the shooter might have reason to adjust the sight or rethink wind counter. At any rate, an experienced shooter can easily call his shots to the decimal target's value in addition to its placement on the clock. </div></div>
This is exactly what I'm saying and it has little to do with the inherent value of calling shots, a practice I carry out for every shot I take. The OP very simply asked whether it was the bullet or him. When two shots out of a group of five differ in POI by under half the minimum precision value expected for that rifle/ammo combination, it is meaningless to imply that calling those shots would have revealed anything about the underlying reason they were higher than the other three because they were well within the expected precision of the OP's setup at that range.
For that group, the OP could have made any calls he wanted, but it is mathematically impossible to state with any degree of certainty whether those two shots were 1" higher than the other three due to shooter error, or something else entirely, regardless of the call. That amount of displacement could have easily been an [almost] imperceptible shooter error, but it could also have been one of a dozen likely other sources of error that had nothing to do with the shooter whatsoever. Calling those shots would not have revealed the underlying source of a deviation that small.
Many here routinely emphasize shooting fundamentals and shot calling is an important aspect of precision marksmanship training. I would not dispute the value of those points in any way. I am simply saying that in this specific case, where the POIs of the two shots in question were well within the precision of the setup used, it would nearly impossible for most, without a great deal of time, money, and effort, to determine the underlying cause.
As I'm writing this, it occurs to me that possibly the OP made a typo and the two shots were 1' high, rather than 1". That would make a lot more sense and if that is the case, then shot calling as you stated would have been revealing as to the probable underlying cause.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please...anyone that can <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> call 0.2 MOA (1") differences between shots at 500 yd using factory ammo ought to win every comp they enter with a perfect score. In addition to shooter error, that kind of variability in POI can also come from almost anything, including wind, MV, parallax, projectile variations, and likely even changes in the phase of the moon. Are there some that can do it? I'm sure there are, but most cannot.
To the OP, great shooting and very impressive! </div></div>
Calling the shot is about where the sight appeared to be as the bullet cleared the barrel. The shot will either be on or off call; and, on or off call, the shooter can use the call to quickly discern the source/s of shooter/target error. <span style="color: #FF0000">Only very inexperienced shooters here would perceive that to call a shot means to recognize bullet placement in a fine unit of measurement from zero displacement condition.</span> Instead, shooters should understand a useful call is one which merely describes where the bullet strike should be as referenced to a hand on a clock.
The value of calling the shot is that it supports shot analysis. For example, a shot called at 3 o'clock and confirmed by a strike at 3 o'clock eliminates wind as a source of error but makes poor trigger control a possible concern. Also, using the same example, the shooter can conclude there is no need to adjust the sights since the shot went where expected. On the other hand, if the shooter called the shot right-in-there, but the strike was at 9 o'clock, the shooter might have reason to adjust the sight or rethink wind counter. At any rate, an experienced shooter can easily call his shots to the decimal target's value in addition to its placement on the clock. </div></div>
This is exactly what I'm saying and it has little to do with the inherent value of calling shots, a practice I carry out for every shot I take. The OP very simply asked whether it was the bullet or him. When two shots out of a group of five differ in POI by under half the minimum precision value expected for that rifle/ammo combination, it is meaningless to imply that calling those shots would have revealed anything about the underlying reason they were higher than the other three because they were well within the expected precision of the OP's setup at that range.
For that group, the OP could have made any calls he wanted, but it is mathematically impossible to state with any degree of certainty whether those two shots were 1" higher than the other three due to shooter error, or something else entirely, regardless of the call. That amount of displacement could have easily been an [almost] imperceptible shooter error, but it could also have been one of a dozen likely other sources of error that had nothing to do with the shooter whatsoever. Calling those shots would not have revealed the underlying source of a deviation that small.
Many here routinely emphasize shooting fundamentals and shot calling is an important aspect of precision marksmanship training. I would not dispute the value of those points in any way. I am simply saying that in this specific case, where the POIs of the two shots in question were well within the precision of the setup used, it would nearly impossible for most, without a great deal of time, money, and effort, to determine the underlying cause.
As I'm writing this, it occurs to me that possibly the OP made a typo and the two shots were 1' high, rather than 1". That would make a lot more sense and if that is the case, then shot calling as you stated would have been revealing as to the probable underlying cause.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Ignore these guys, the rifle is bad....please sell it to me!
Congrats!
Ignore these guys, the rifle is bad....please sell it to me!
Congrats!
Re: is it the bullet or me?
The OP would not need to have asked the question if he had called his shots. He would have understood that there was no shooter error, or problem with ammunition or equipment. Also, remember, analysis of the shot call is about correction of the work in progress. And, although analysis of the OP's group also reveals no shooter/target error, analysis of the group is only applicable to exercises yet to be undertaken. This is why it is so important that a shooter participating in some form of slow fire competition, where there are multiple shots fired at a singular target, call his shots, since analysis after the dust has settled and smoke has cleared will not add any points to the competitors completed match score.
The OP would not need to have asked the question if he had called his shots. He would have understood that there was no shooter error, or problem with ammunition or equipment. Also, remember, analysis of the shot call is about correction of the work in progress. And, although analysis of the OP's group also reveals no shooter/target error, analysis of the group is only applicable to exercises yet to be undertaken. This is why it is so important that a shooter participating in some form of slow fire competition, where there are multiple shots fired at a singular target, call his shots, since analysis after the dust has settled and smoke has cleared will not add any points to the competitors completed match score.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Sig,
You can add Wisconsin to your list, we finally joined the union as of this past fall legalizing concealed carry. It's a nice place to visit too, and a damn fine place to go barrel shopping too!!!
Sig,
You can add Wisconsin to your list, we finally joined the union as of this past fall legalizing concealed carry. It's a nice place to visit too, and a damn fine place to go barrel shopping too!!!
Re: is it the bullet or me?
Run some 10 shot groups if you really want to know if its you or the ammo. I used to shoot 5 shot groups, but I got sick of wondering if it was me, rifle, or ammo on the differences. Now I run 10 through. It tells what you need to know.
Run some 10 shot groups if you really want to know if its you or the ammo. I used to shoot 5 shot groups, but I got sick of wondering if it was me, rifle, or ammo on the differences. Now I run 10 through. It tells what you need to know.
A
Augustus
Guest
Re: is it the bullet or me?
AB, do you really think there is something wrong with a 5 shot group that measures 2 inches at 500 yds. That sir is well under 1/2 min at 500 yds. If you are unhappy with those results I predict you have many unhappy days to endure if you live very long. Get a good ballistic program and play with it. Look at what 1 mph of a full value wind does to your projo, then see what 10 to 15 fps deviation in muzzle velocity does to you.
It is absolutely laughable for folks to tell you that you will do any better if only you would learn to call your shots, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, your rifle, bullets, or anything else in your system. You need to frame that target because you won't repeat that too often I suspect, except on the Internet .
AB, do you really think there is something wrong with a 5 shot group that measures 2 inches at 500 yds. That sir is well under 1/2 min at 500 yds. If you are unhappy with those results I predict you have many unhappy days to endure if you live very long. Get a good ballistic program and play with it. Look at what 1 mph of a full value wind does to your projo, then see what 10 to 15 fps deviation in muzzle velocity does to you.
It is absolutely laughable for folks to tell you that you will do any better if only you would learn to call your shots, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, your rifle, bullets, or anything else in your system. You need to frame that target because you won't repeat that too often I suspect, except on the Internet .
Re: is it the bullet or me?
its not that i'm unhappy with it, i just want to get the most out of the setup and myself, i plan to compete one day but know i have lots to learn before "Jumping into the Fire".
its not that i'm unhappy with it, i just want to get the most out of the setup and myself, i plan to compete one day but know i have lots to learn before "Jumping into the Fire".
Re: is it the bullet or me?
2" 5 shot group at 500yds? Really? If so, you are absolute good to go. End of load developing. That would be a 5x group on the F class target (x ring is 0.5 moa). Since you don't reload, buy up the rest of that lot of GMM and go shoot a match. Enjoy the confidence knowing that its not the gun or the load, so go out there and knock it down.
2" 5 shot group at 500yds? Really? If so, you are absolute good to go. End of load developing. That would be a 5x group on the F class target (x ring is 0.5 moa). Since you don't reload, buy up the rest of that lot of GMM and go shoot a match. Enjoy the confidence knowing that its not the gun or the load, so go out there and knock it down.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
2" at 500 yards with out of the box ammo? Not sure if you are going to do better than that.
2" at 500 yards with out of the box ammo? Not sure if you are going to do better than that.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
There's nothing wrong with the OP's group. However, the OP may still not know how to build a proper position. The bipod can mask underdeveloped marksmanship. Once the OP leaves the bipod for a position such as unsupported prone, where the firearm will need to be controlled consistently by the shooter for good results, there will be no doubt about the answer to the OP's question.
There's nothing wrong with the OP's group. However, the OP may still not know how to build a proper position. The bipod can mask underdeveloped marksmanship. Once the OP leaves the bipod for a position such as unsupported prone, where the firearm will need to be controlled consistently by the shooter for good results, there will be no doubt about the answer to the OP's question.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
My custom F-class rifle will be finished later this year (hopefully.) If my first 500 yard group is sub-1/2 MOA I will be dancing naked at Carnegie Hall, ending up in Bellevue with a big smile on my face.
My custom F-class rifle will be finished later this year (hopefully.) If my first 500 yard group is sub-1/2 MOA I will be dancing naked at Carnegie Hall, ending up in Bellevue with a big smile on my face.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing for sure, you must learn to analyse, it's how you develop your marksmanship skill to get to the highest plateaus. Be cognisant of the 5 factors of a steady position; and, remember, to maximize the perfect rifle and ammunition, the shooter can be no less than perfect too in his relationship with the gun and ground. Perfection is the objective for every shot within the string of fire. </div></div>
Sterling- What are the five factors of a steady position you reference here?
Also, my two cents on calling shots... I would always forget to call my shots at the range or in comps because I've always been in a hurry. Since I bought a 10m air rifle to practice at home, I am finally relaxed and calling my shots behind the trigger. I've only been doing this for a week but the improvement has been dramatic! I'm shooting a 0.5in bullseye at 10 m and I can tell you whether it was left bull, right bull, or a miss. I have to walk forward to see the holes after each shot but somehow I am pretty good at discerning when I am only .1 or.2 in off before I go look... this is with aperture match sights. It has really helped my follow-through and my awareness of the position of the gun at the point the trigger pops. I can't wait to get on my rig at the range and see how it translates.
The level of awareness I've created by calling my shots is hard to describe... I just *know* I'm a better shooter now than I was a week ago...and I have been reading about calling my shots for years I just never got in the right "zone" to do it at the range with all of the other noise and stuff going on I guess.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing for sure, you must learn to analyse, it's how you develop your marksmanship skill to get to the highest plateaus. Be cognisant of the 5 factors of a steady position; and, remember, to maximize the perfect rifle and ammunition, the shooter can be no less than perfect too in his relationship with the gun and ground. Perfection is the objective for every shot within the string of fire. </div></div>
Sterling- What are the five factors of a steady position you reference here?
Also, my two cents on calling shots... I would always forget to call my shots at the range or in comps because I've always been in a hurry. Since I bought a 10m air rifle to practice at home, I am finally relaxed and calling my shots behind the trigger. I've only been doing this for a week but the improvement has been dramatic! I'm shooting a 0.5in bullseye at 10 m and I can tell you whether it was left bull, right bull, or a miss. I have to walk forward to see the holes after each shot but somehow I am pretty good at discerning when I am only .1 or.2 in off before I go look... this is with aperture match sights. It has really helped my follow-through and my awareness of the position of the gun at the point the trigger pops. I can't wait to get on my rig at the range and see how it translates.
The level of awareness I've created by calling my shots is hard to describe... I just *know* I'm a better shooter now than I was a week ago...and I have been reading about calling my shots for years I just never got in the right "zone" to do it at the range with all of the other noise and stuff going on I guess.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing for sure, you must learn to analyse, it's how you develop your marksmanship skill to get to the highest plateaus. Be cognisant of the 5 factors of a steady position; and, remember, to maximize the perfect rifle and ammunition, the shooter can be no less than perfect too in his relationship with the gun and ground. Perfection is the objective for every shot within the string of fire. </div></div>
Sterling- What are the five factors of a steady position you reference here?
Also, my two cents on calling shots... I would always forget to call my shots at the range or in comps because I've always been in a hurry. Since I bought a 10m air rifle to practice at home, I am finally relaxed and calling my shots behind the trigger. I've only been doing this for a week but the improvement has been dramatic! I'm shooting a 0.5in bullseye at 10 m and I can tell you whether it was left bull, right bull, or a miss. I have to walk forward to see the holes after each shot but somehow I am pretty good at discerning when I am only .1 or.2 in off before I go look... this is with aperture match sights. It has really helped my follow-through and my awareness of the position of the gun at the point the trigger pops. I can't wait to get on my rig at the range and see how it translates.
The level of awareness I've created by calling my shots is hard to describe... I just *know* I'm a better shooter now than I was a week ago...and I have been reading about calling my shots for years I just never got in the right "zone" to do it at the range with all of the other noise and stuff going on I guess.</div></div>
The 5 factors of a steady position are elbows, non-firing hand, grip, butt-to-shoulder, and stockweld placement. With development of motor memory, to better assure the factors are more consistent from shot to shot, the angle/arc between line of bore at rest and line of departure will be more consistent too, which means shots will hit more exactly where aimed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing for sure, you must learn to analyse, it's how you develop your marksmanship skill to get to the highest plateaus. Be cognisant of the 5 factors of a steady position; and, remember, to maximize the perfect rifle and ammunition, the shooter can be no less than perfect too in his relationship with the gun and ground. Perfection is the objective for every shot within the string of fire. </div></div>
Sterling- What are the five factors of a steady position you reference here?
Also, my two cents on calling shots... I would always forget to call my shots at the range or in comps because I've always been in a hurry. Since I bought a 10m air rifle to practice at home, I am finally relaxed and calling my shots behind the trigger. I've only been doing this for a week but the improvement has been dramatic! I'm shooting a 0.5in bullseye at 10 m and I can tell you whether it was left bull, right bull, or a miss. I have to walk forward to see the holes after each shot but somehow I am pretty good at discerning when I am only .1 or.2 in off before I go look... this is with aperture match sights. It has really helped my follow-through and my awareness of the position of the gun at the point the trigger pops. I can't wait to get on my rig at the range and see how it translates.
The level of awareness I've created by calling my shots is hard to describe... I just *know* I'm a better shooter now than I was a week ago...and I have been reading about calling my shots for years I just never got in the right "zone" to do it at the range with all of the other noise and stuff going on I guess.</div></div>
The 5 factors of a steady position are elbows, non-firing hand, grip, butt-to-shoulder, and stockweld placement. With development of motor memory, to better assure the factors are more consistent from shot to shot, the angle/arc between line of bore at rest and line of departure will be more consistent too, which means shots will hit more exactly where aimed.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
I dont have the equipment or know how to reload and was using Federal gold match 168, Ive always shot well but never had any formal training other than rifle quals and training with m16, just curious if the veterans on here thought maybe it was me or the ammo, i have done some research and fully confident it wasnt the gun. [/quote]
Its sound like your off to a good start, now the key is to keeping it up. Being able to preform that well under pressure is something that comes from practice. In your post you indicate that you have had military training. Even though it was on a M16, all that training transfers to other rifles. Shooting requires a balance of several things, equipment, ammo, and training being our part. It sounds like early one you received some good lessons and did quite well. We all pay our dues one trigger pull at a time. Keep up the good work.
I dont have the equipment or know how to reload and was using Federal gold match 168, Ive always shot well but never had any formal training other than rifle quals and training with m16, just curious if the veterans on here thought maybe it was me or the ammo, i have done some research and fully confident it wasnt the gun. [/quote]
Its sound like your off to a good start, now the key is to keeping it up. Being able to preform that well under pressure is something that comes from practice. In your post you indicate that you have had military training. Even though it was on a M16, all that training transfers to other rifles. Shooting requires a balance of several things, equipment, ammo, and training being our part. It sounds like early one you received some good lessons and did quite well. We all pay our dues one trigger pull at a time. Keep up the good work.
Re: is it the bullet or me?
I would quickly buy up as much of that FGM same lot and protect it with my life along with the rifle. <.5moa is absolutely good to go I don't care who you are. All you have to do now is to continue shooting like you are in all conditions, write down the dope and sit back with a smile on your face.
I would quickly buy up as much of that FGM same lot and protect it with my life along with the rifle. <.5moa is absolutely good to go I don't care who you are. All you have to do now is to continue shooting like you are in all conditions, write down the dope and sit back with a smile on your face.
