I currently reload bulk calibers (9mm, 45aarp, .223 and .308) on my Dillon 550. I am wading into the waters of 6GT and was curious if it is worth getting a single stage press to reload that on. If so, how does the RCBS Partner Press compare to the basic Hornady Lock and Load? My grandpa has the RCBS that he said I could have, but the Hornady can be found cheap and I like the idea of the quick swap bushings so I don't have to change stuff around every time.
Is it worth reloading precision ammo on a single stage versus progressive press?
- Thread starter kjeff91
- Start date
Using a press where you can swap dies out quickly is a big asset when you're experimenting, like taking a close look (measurement) at each stage for a case to get all the dies set to give you what you want on the final outcome. This is why I like my Forster Co-Ax as well as the not so cheap Nexus
, where the dies can be quickly popped in and out. So, since you're "wading into" a new cartridge and probably looking for more precision. . . go with the Hornady with their quick change bushings. That RCBS is a good press, just you have to fiddle with it more.
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I like my single stage press. It allows me to ensure every step is correct
There are a lot people who say they pretty succes loading pretty dang good ammo on a Dillon. If I wast a poor I woukd have one. Auctioned my Lee loadmaster on ebay in 2020. Got enough out of it to buy a 550.
haven't pulled the trigger yet.
haven't pulled the trigger yet.
I like single stage, you get to feel what is going on with each step on each piece of brass. If it doesn't feel right it gets set aside as practice ammo.
I do all my ase prep on a Dillon 650, then powder by hand and bullet seating by hand. So a hybrid. There a companies out there that make all sorts of gadgets to improve the Dillon in tolerances etc.
IMHO if the main goal is to hit small stuff, really far away, then you basically have to roll your own… because that takes consistent ammo round to round with SDs in the single digits, and nobody cares as much about your shit as you do so there’s nothing really out there to buy that will be as good, you have to become the ammo factory.
Sure, guys make good ammo on progressive presses, but in the grand scheme of things using a single-stage isn’t really that much slower, and arguably makes it easier to achieve lower SD/ES numbers over batches in the ~100-400 rounds per batch realm.
The RCBS will be fine, quick-swap dies are just another gimmick (swapping a traditional/regular die takes <1 minute if you try to go slow). And regardless of how much one spends, what press one uses almost doesn’t even matter as long as it’s solid and does the same thing every time you pull the handle.
Sure, guys make good ammo on progressive presses, but in the grand scheme of things using a single-stage isn’t really that much slower, and arguably makes it easier to achieve lower SD/ES numbers over batches in the ~100-400 rounds per batch realm.
The RCBS will be fine, quick-swap dies are just another gimmick (swapping a traditional/regular die takes <1 minute if you try to go slow). And regardless of how much one spends, what press one uses almost doesn’t even matter as long as it’s solid and does the same thing every time you pull the handle.
@kjeff91
I load on a 550 for most ammo. I have a few single stage presses accumulated over decades of this hobby. Those single stage presses will be passed down to my boys when they start loading their own ammunition.
You can load good rifle ammo on a 550. It is a bit more challenging.
If you load with a single stage you will also need at least a powder measure of some sort to go with it. And loading blocks. Your grandpa probably has all those things if you ask about it. I am a nostalgic guy so I would be thrilled to load on a press owned by living ancestor, especially if that allowed us to spend time together enjoying our hobby.
If I were buying another press today I would be hard pressed to choose between the Co-Ax and a Redding T7. Different approaches to the same problem.
I load on a 550 for most ammo. I have a few single stage presses accumulated over decades of this hobby. Those single stage presses will be passed down to my boys when they start loading their own ammunition.
You can load good rifle ammo on a 550. It is a bit more challenging.
If you load with a single stage you will also need at least a powder measure of some sort to go with it. And loading blocks. Your grandpa probably has all those things if you ask about it. I am a nostalgic guy so I would be thrilled to load on a press owned by living ancestor, especially if that allowed us to spend time together enjoying our hobby.
If I were buying another press today I would be hard pressed to choose between the Co-Ax and a Redding T7. Different approaches to the same problem.
I use a 1990s-vintage RL550B in hybrid mode.
In short, a decades-old Dillon progressive does the job just fine, and I can indeed feel it in the handle if something isn't "right" or too much/too little pressure is needed.
- Anneal (AMP with Aztec) and tumble in corncob with Lyman Turbo-Brite.
- Tool head #1 has deprime/resize die in station 1, expander mandrel in station 2, and seating die in station 3. All have a rubber o-ring under lock ring to allow some flex. So lubed brass is resized and mandreled, then
- Put in dedicated-for-purpose corncob media tumbler for 20 minutes to remove lube.
- Trim if needed.
- Hand prime with Frankford Arsenal tool.
- Another tool head has a Dillon drop measure on it - drop powder a tenth light, trickle to weight on FX-120i scale, place a bullet on the charged case in a loading tray.
- After all cases are charged, tool head #1 goes back in and bullets are seated.
In short, a decades-old Dillon progressive does the job just fine, and I can indeed feel it in the handle if something isn't "right" or too much/too little pressure is needed.
If you already have the 550 and are comfortable it's operation, I'd say it'd be a relatively easy step up to a two tool-head 'hybrid mode on the 550. I really don't think that you'd be leaving much, if anything on the table as far as accuracy for the styles of shooting commonly discussed here.
There are a bunch of existing threads on the way(s) to accomplish that. It hasn't changed materially since the last half-dozen times the subject came up. Rather than re-hash the same info - again - I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader
There are a bunch of existing threads on the way(s) to accomplish that. It hasn't changed materially since the last half-dozen times the subject came up. Rather than re-hash the same info - again - I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader
Thanks for the info guys. I think I'll get my first couple hundred rounds made for this first and once the barrel is worked in I can determine if a single stage press as a secondary press would be beneficial.
you can always single stage on a progressive
I use station 2 on my 1050/1100 all the time if i just need to do 1 thing
the biggest problem with a single stage is swapping shell plates. but if you mostly load .308 bolt face stuff. A progressive is pretty badass, especially with a case feeder
I use station 2 on my 1050/1100 all the time if i just need to do 1 thing
the biggest problem with a single stage is swapping shell plates. but if you mostly load .308 bolt face stuff. A progressive is pretty badass, especially with a case feeder
Don’t forget a nice turret press can be the best of both worlds. Hard to beat a Redding T7.
only issue ive had so far with "precision" reloading on a 650xl is the cylindrical powders dont work well in there powder measures. For example, IMR4064 does not meter well at all.
I load all my precision ammo on a 550 with powder that is coming out of a Prometheus or an autotrickler.
Everything from 17 Mach IV to 338 Lapua.
Less time at the bench means more time at the range.
So far I have have not seen anything on the target or over the chrono that says "You have to use a single stage to load accurate ammo."
Everything from 17 Mach IV to 338 Lapua.
Less time at the bench means more time at the range.
So far I have have not seen anything on the target or over the chrono that says "You have to use a single stage to load accurate ammo."
I load all my precision ammo on a 550 with powder that is coming out of a Prometheus or an autotrickler.
Everything from 17 Mach IV to 338 Lapua.
Less time at the bench means more time at the range.
So far I have have not seen anything on the target or over the chrono that says "You have to use a single stage to load accurate ammo."
Are you dropping into a pan and using a funnel die or have you found a way to drop directly into the die/case?
I loaded every single round of rifle for 22 years on a Rock Chucker. Recently I bought a used 500 for 5.56 as I a shooting a lot more 2 gun and 500 rounds of 5.56 on a Rock Chucker is a 5+ hour endeavor . I love it, and I think it could absolutely load match ammo IF the case prep was done before the cases went into the progressive or you started with virgin brass. Probably could be done all at once but I like the feel of the single stage when sizing.
Somewhere out there there is a video of John Whiddens automated Dillion progressives turning out massive amounts of a Palma ammo. The dude is a 6 time national champion. They can make quality ammo.
Somewhere out there there is a video of John Whiddens automated Dillion progressives turning out massive amounts of a Palma ammo. The dude is a 6 time national champion. They can make quality ammo.
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I switched all my ammo over to a Hornady lnl progressive a few years ago, including my match ammo. I was not able to tell a difference in target. My oal varies a little more than my old rock chucker but I’m able to produce ammo significantly faster.
I have competed with many people that use crazy time intensive reloading practices and I regularly beat them.
Reloading on the progressive has allowed me more time to shoot instead of more time loading.
My steps are
Fill the case feeder with clean brass
1st spot is deprime
2nd re size without the expander button
3rd expander mandrel.
The brass gets tumbled to remove lube and trimmed/chamfered on my giraurd if needed.
Brass is dumped back into the case feeder.
1st is deprime (to remove any tumbling media from flash hole)
2nd prime down stroke expander mandrel upstroke
3rd Dillon powder funnel with area 419 adapter. Powder charge is measured with an ingenuity trickler and dumped into funnel mounted on press.
4th seat bullet
5th crimp for certain ammo.
I’m able to load 200+ an hour with this setup starting with prepped brass.
The initial run through doing the sizing I did 200+ in about 30 minutes this morning before work.
I do believe it’s best to start with a single stage just to understand and see the different steps because it’s easy to make mistakes with the progressive but for the OP who sounds like they are already familiar, there is no way I would down grade to a single stage press.
I have competed with many people that use crazy time intensive reloading practices and I regularly beat them.
Reloading on the progressive has allowed me more time to shoot instead of more time loading.
My steps are
Fill the case feeder with clean brass
1st spot is deprime
2nd re size without the expander button
3rd expander mandrel.
The brass gets tumbled to remove lube and trimmed/chamfered on my giraurd if needed.
Brass is dumped back into the case feeder.
1st is deprime (to remove any tumbling media from flash hole)
2nd prime down stroke expander mandrel upstroke
3rd Dillon powder funnel with area 419 adapter. Powder charge is measured with an ingenuity trickler and dumped into funnel mounted on press.
4th seat bullet
5th crimp for certain ammo.
I’m able to load 200+ an hour with this setup starting with prepped brass.
The initial run through doing the sizing I did 200+ in about 30 minutes this morning before work.
I do believe it’s best to start with a single stage just to understand and see the different steps because it’s easy to make mistakes with the progressive but for the OP who sounds like they are already familiar, there is no way I would down grade to a single stage press.
I used to do case prep on a single stage then prime, charge, and seat on 550 but now that I’ve got a turret press my 550 gathers dust. Setting up the dies and dialing them in is what takes the most time IMO or at least it’s the most annoying.
Once you have the dies setup there shouldn’t be any adjustments as long as your using lock rings…….
For me in the Hornady lnl press I have the quick change bushings on all my dies with lock rings so no adjustments when changing. Just screw them in and done.
I do verify setting by measuring but I never have to adjust.
For me in the Hornady lnl press I have the quick change bushings on all my dies with lock rings so no adjustments when changing. Just screw them in and done.
I do verify setting by measuring but I never have to adjust.
Are you manually dumping in the powder with a funnel?I load all my precision ammo on a 550 with powder that is coming out of a Prometheus or an autotrickler.
Everything from 17 Mach IV to 338 Lapua.
Less time at the bench means more time at the range.
So far I have have not seen anything on the target or over the chrono that says "You have to use a single stage to load accurate ammo."
To me it is because I loathe loading. I will pay (within reason) for a quicker mouse trap so I don’t have to stand at the press any longer than I want to. I’ve seen no indication on target that loading on my 650 is less precise than when I load on a single stage (either coax or rockchucker). Sd, mv, and es all similar.
Yes. When the case pops up through the top of the toolhead, I just place an MTM funnel/droptube and pour in the powder. It is painless.
Go single stage with the Co-Ax if you have a bit of reloader's OCD. There is a reason why they don't come up for sale very often.
With a progressive press there are a few more places where inconsistencies can enter the cycle compared to a good single stage press. As also mentioned, few can shoot the difference to even know.
Precision in shooting is relative.
Traditional hunting get 2MOA and call that good enough.
PRS shooters are happy if less than 1 MOA. And yes, few shooters can shoot PRS well enough to see improvement from that. Any progressive with the right powder is good enough.
F-class and ELR want 1/2 MOA. Yet there is still not many of them that can shoot that well in competition. Few of those that can shoot the difference use progressive presses.
Lastly benchrest shooters screw on a new barrel if they cannot get less than 0.3. Somehow I doubt there are any progressive presses involved.
What I do find perplexing is some shooters go full OCD with de-prime, clean, anneal, lube, size, mandrel, clean, lube neck and then throw everything together on a progressive.
With a progressive press there are a few more places where inconsistencies can enter the cycle compared to a good single stage press. As also mentioned, few can shoot the difference to even know.
Precision in shooting is relative.
Traditional hunting get 2MOA and call that good enough.
PRS shooters are happy if less than 1 MOA. And yes, few shooters can shoot PRS well enough to see improvement from that. Any progressive with the right powder is good enough.
F-class and ELR want 1/2 MOA. Yet there is still not many of them that can shoot that well in competition. Few of those that can shoot the difference use progressive presses.
Lastly benchrest shooters screw on a new barrel if they cannot get less than 0.3. Somehow I doubt there are any progressive presses involved.
What I do find perplexing is some shooters go full OCD with de-prime, clean, anneal, lube, size, mandrel, clean, lube neck and then throw everything together on a progressive.
I load all precision ammo on a Dillon 550, weighing individual charges. Average loading rate is 2 rounds/minute. I would never go back to a single stage press.
For those using the Dillon progressives.
When do you clean your fired brass; before or after decapping, sizing?
Do you anneal the case necks?
When do you lubericate the cases?
Do you use a mandrel?
When and how do you remove the lubrication?
Do you lube inside neck before seating the bullet?
Are all the work done on a progressive press or are some of it done on a single stage press as well?
When do you clean your fired brass; before or after decapping, sizing?
Do you anneal the case necks?
When do you lubericate the cases?
Do you use a mandrel?
When and how do you remove the lubrication?
Do you lube inside neck before seating the bullet?
Are all the work done on a progressive press or are some of it done on a single stage press as well?
I’m using a Hornady progressive, not a Dillon but can answer how I do it.
I clean brass before each round through the press.
1) I clean.
2) Dump a few hundred cases in a plastic shoe box and spray the cases with lanolin/alcohol.
3) Run the lubed brass through the press, de cap, full length size without expander button, mandrel the neck. 3 separate dies.
4) Run brass through tumbler to remove lube.
5) Trim/chamfer in a giraurd if needed.
6) Dump clean brass back into case feeder and run through the press to load with the following steps on the press.
De cap to remove possible flash hole obstructions, prime, mandrel again incase I dented a neck, manually dump powder through a Dillon powder funnel measured using precision trickler, seat bullet, last step crimp if desired.
I don’t anneal every time but when I do anneal I do it before sizing the brass.
All my work is done on the progressive, no single stage.
I do not lube case necks before seating bullets. When I ss tumbled I had issues with inconsistent seating depth and resistance. I swapped back to vibratory cleaning and no issues since.
I clean brass before each round through the press.
1) I clean.
2) Dump a few hundred cases in a plastic shoe box and spray the cases with lanolin/alcohol.
3) Run the lubed brass through the press, de cap, full length size without expander button, mandrel the neck. 3 separate dies.
4) Run brass through tumbler to remove lube.
5) Trim/chamfer in a giraurd if needed.
6) Dump clean brass back into case feeder and run through the press to load with the following steps on the press.
De cap to remove possible flash hole obstructions, prime, mandrel again incase I dented a neck, manually dump powder through a Dillon powder funnel measured using precision trickler, seat bullet, last step crimp if desired.
I don’t anneal every time but when I do anneal I do it before sizing the brass.
All my work is done on the progressive, no single stage.
I do not lube case necks before seating bullets. When I ss tumbled I had issues with inconsistent seating depth and resistance. I swapped back to vibratory cleaning and no issues since.
During load development I will use the 650 as a single stage. Doing 10rds or so for charge weights and seating depth tests.
Use what you have. I have loaded some on my Dillion 550s and others on one of my single stage presses. For me it is easier on a turret single stage press, but both work well.
I"m in red above, I've been loading on a 750 for 5-6yrs now and would never go back to a single stage but I am one of the guys that does not like or enjoy reloading, and yes you can make extremely accurate ammo on a progressive press anyone that says you can't has never used or does not know how to use a progressive press, a single stage press is like watching grass grow, a turret press is like watching grass grow with a good fertilizer.
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