Is Lapua worth that much more?

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bluesman423

Private
Minuteman
Nov 29, 2009
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0
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#1
My goal is to reach 1/2" five shot groups @ 100 yds with my Remington SPS Tactical 308 topped with a Falcon 4.5 -18X scope.

Lapua brass is 64 cents and Winchester is 39 cents per round. Keeping my goal in mind, is the Lapua worth 25 cents more?

Thanks if you can help.
 
#3
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

It is to me, though I am running a 223ai. The Winchester brass primer pockets were pretty loose after 2 firings on the brass, and I could push them in by hand after 4 firings. I am only on two firings with Lapua, but the pockets are tight as factory new. Lapua is stronger, with zero brass prep, and I can like that.

I also run Lapua in my 6.5x47, for obvious reasons. I am at 4 firings on this lot of brass, and the primer pockets are still as tight as they were from the factory. I am running a relatively stout load with varget, and I continue to be impressed.
 
#7
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

Thanks for the help, guys. Lapua it is.

I finally found some Federal Match Primers and will be working up loads with Hornady 168 BTHP and Sierra 168 Match Kings using 4064 and 4895 powder. Couldn't find any Varget.

Wish me luck. Don't think it will be too hard, not looking for teens or twos, just 1/2".
 
#8
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

accuracy in your rifle will likely be uneffected by using lapua brass. i find winchester to be just a durable as to soaking up pressure. i load my 223ack and TCU VERY hot and dont lose any more primer pockets than i do using lapua brass. both are customs and accuracy is virtually the same. lapua may save you a flier once in a while. i think my custom 308 may shoot winchester slightly better. i can only attribute this to a little more neck clearance.

chuck
 
#9
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

HMMMMMMM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">accuracy in your rifle will likely be uneffected by using lapua brass. i find winchester to be just a durable as to soaking up pressure. i load my 223ack and TCU VERY hot and dont lose any more primer pockets than i do using lapua brass. both are customs and accuracy is virtually the same. lapua may save you a flier once in a while. i think my custom 308 may shoot winchester slightly better. i can only attribute this to a little more neck clearance.

chuck </div></div>
 
#10
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

FWIW, my Lapua 308 has over 15 loads (I stopped counting after that). Still look good and still going.

My Lapua 338 LM, is on 8-10 loads depending on the batch without any signs of retirement.

I load my 300 win mag with winchester brass, just because I can't find Lapua brass anymore for that (they don't make them any more). Found that after about 5 reloads, the primer pocket gets a bit loose. Don't think it's going to make it to 10 reloads. Accuracy? A bit of a toss up between the two in part because the 300 win mag has a tight chamber, semi custom vs. the 308 and 338 LM are factory actions (AIAWs).

Conclusion: JMHO, Yes, Lapua brass are worth it.
 
#11
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

i looked in the latest catalog from midwayusa. lapua is 63.79 per 100. norma is 98.99 per 100. what makes norma that much more expensive and is it better or just more expensive? anyone use it?
 
#12
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i looked in the latest catalog from midwayusa. lapua is 63.79 per 100. norma is 98.99 per 100. what makes norma that much more expensive and is it better or just more expensive? anyone use it? </div></div>




one of my buddies used norma brass for a 338 lapua
he feels the norma brass did not hold up as well as the lapua brass
 
#13
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

I could not tell the difference between Lapua and WW as far as accuracy was concerned, both shot equally well. I also did not see any difference in case life as both of them lasted between 15 and 20 times before I started see rings above the web area.

I use a modified version of the OCW method to develop loads and go with accuracy vs speed. Someimes the two line up but generally my most accurate load is just a little less than what my rifle tells me is too hot. (the usual pressure signs) This may help my brass last better.

Both brands need to be annealed to keep the necks from hardening and splitting. Shooting loads that are so hot that the brass fails in the first few shootings is hard on more than the brass.

Initial case prep on the Lapua is less as the primer pockets/flash holes are better. I shoot WW because it costs less, is easy to find and shoots just as accurately. If Lapua was even a hair more accurate, I would go with it but it has tested the same for me on several different rifles so I don't even look into it any more.
 
#14
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW, my Lapua 308 has over 15 loads (I stopped counting after that). Still look good and still going.</div></div>

I am on reload 24 for alot (100) of Win 308 brass loaded up with 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars and have not lost a single case due to craking or blown primer pockets.
 
#15
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

If you treat your Lapua brass nice, it will return the favor and you will get a bunch of mileage out of it. Keep your cases trimmed, tumbled, clean and chamfered, and you will be very happy. I am very satisfied with my Lapua brass.
 
#19
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua to Winchester is like Remington is to Savage. </div></div>

lol, that may explain alot. unless your talking to a savage owner.
 
#20
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

As far as accuracy goes I haven't been able to tell any difference with prepped brass. But you can spend a few minutes on Lapua brass or hours on any domestic brass. Lapua will be way more consistent and the primer pockets hold up better than any thing else I have used. I will not build another rifle that I can't use Lapua brass in. I have been fooling with Winchester 7WSM brass it makes me remember why I started using Lapua brass.
 
#21
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

I am interested to see as well. I have primarily used Winchester and BHA (which, from what I understand, is the same), but recently picked up close to 200 pieces of Nosler and 100 pieces of Lapua .308 brass.
 
#22
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua to Winchester is like Remington is to Savage. </div></div>

i don't feel that winchester is better than lapua, sorry.
 
#23
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hershey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua to Winchester is like Remington is to Savage. </div></div>

i don't feel that winchester is better than lapua, sorry.</div></div>

I don't either.
 
#24
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua to Winchester is like Remington is to Savage. </div></div>

Thats not very complimentary... to Lapua
wink.gif


Hmmm... how many Remchesters did we see on the U.S. F/TR team this summer... zero. How many Savages... five.

Several of the guys on the team, if given the choice, would have gladly stuck with their (heavily sorted) Winchester .308 brass (God help their blasphemous souls
grin.gif
) over Lapua.

Me, I have a slight preference for Lapua for the reasons given above. But I've also been whipped enough times by people shooting Winchester brass that I don't consider it to be that big of a deal.
 
#28
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

And I've seen/felt the same thing on some of the lower end Remington guns. To-may-to To-mah-to. Your point still doesn't wash.

Back to the topic at hand... brass... if you don't have anything better than that (dubious at best) analogy, try again. I've seen people win National Championships and set records using Winchester brass (in Savage rifles no less), although I would hazard a *guess* that more have been set with Lapua... probably due in part to the number of people using Lapua for LR HP matches.

To give Lapua some credit where due... they have become less shy about new products the last few years... the new Lapua .308 Palma brass as one example.
 
#29
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

Remingtons don't ever feel mushy and squishy.

I never said that Winchester brass does not produce accurate loads, or that Savages are less accurate. Both produce top accuracy, but Lapua brass is better, both dimentionally and cosmetically.
 
#30
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua brass is better, both dimentionally and cosmetically. </div></div>

That much at least I will agree with you on. The cost differential between the two diminishes when you start sorting/prepping heavily enough to produce true match brass from Winchester cases. Difference in performance of the end product though, is negligible.
 
#31
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

Spin some fireformed Winchester cases on a runout gauge in reverse. You'll see as much as .007" of casehead runout. Lapua will show maybe .002".
 
#32
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluesman423</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My goal is to reach 1/2" five shot groups @ 100 yds with my Remington SPS Tactical 308 topped with a Falcon 4.5 -18X scope.....</div></div>

if that's your only goal, i don't think you'd see a difference in accuracy. i'd just get the Win, and uniform/deburr the primer holes (that's what I do, it's a one time thing). use the $$ saved on bullets/powder/primers (and concentrate on consistently in your loading). bed the action, adjust to a clean trigger pull, crown the bbl if needed, but you probably are aware of that.
 
#33
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

Recently purchased a couple hundred rounds of new Lapua brass in 308, primarily based on a lot of the reasons listed above, which have been listed here on the Hide before. When I compare it to new unfired Winchester brass, the Lapua seems better quality, it does weigh more, I know the flash hole is drilled. I have yet to reload any of it, but I am hoping its worth the extra expense down the road.
 
#34
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

Yes, and in isolated situations I've seen Winchester .308 cases let go when they swelled from the out-of-the-bag undersized .463-.465 to nominal .470 fired dimension. Some people sort by internal case wall runout to alleviate the uneven stretching that you see. Lapua cases tend to be closer .468-.469 out of the box and don't swell as much.

Again, end result down range on target... minimal difference.
 
#35
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

That's not it.

Hornady brass has the same low casehead runout as Lapua but is dimentionally the same as Winchester. It is better brass, pure and simple.
 
#36
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

'Better' being subjective... you judge it by what you measure on the casing itself (and I don't disagree on any particular point there); I judge it by what I see on the target at distance - and I don't see much if any difference one way or another.

YMMV,

Monte
 
#37
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But there is a lack of quality in the other brand. They are rough and the action feels like it was made by Lee. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remingtons don't ever feel mushy and squishy.

I never said that Winchester brass does not produce accurate loads, or that Savages are less accurate. Both produce top accuracy, but Lapua brass is better, both dimentionally and cosmetically. </div></div>

No wonder I can't get better than .5 moa out of my AR-15. I've been using some cosmetically inferior Winchester brass and loading it on one of those rough Lee presses.
 
#39
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

The question was if Lapua brass was worth extra cost in the quest for 1/2 moa groups from a factory Remington rifle. While I did not dispute the overall quality of their product, My testing did not show any indication where using their brass makes one's group smaller.

Given all the runout numbers that have been thrown around, it seems that there should also be numbers to show that this results in better groups or the answer is pretty clear that it is only worth the cost if you are measuring by something other than group size.
 
#40
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

I use Win brass for practical apps

My x47 use lapua as they are sole source but if WIN made x47 brass i would switch in a heart beat and not feel slighted

Your dime your choice
 
#41
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question was if Lapua brass was worth extra cost in the quest for 1/2 moa groups from a factory Remington rifle. While I did not dispute the overall quality of their product, My testing did not show any indication where using their brass makes one's group smaller.

Given all the runout numbers that have been thrown around, it seems that there should also be numbers to show that this results in better groups or the answer is pretty clear that it is only worth the cost if you are measuring by something other than group size. </div></div>

About twenty years ago, either Shooting Times or G&A did an article where they sought to quantify the benefits of brass prep. They couldn't. I seriously doubt that a "Lapua flash hole" improves accuracy over Winchester's flash hole.

I look at it this way:

Given my pettyness and anal personality, I end up culling 60-70% of my Winchester brass for various reasons. I don't have to do that with Lapua, therefore the cost and time savings are tremendous for me. Also, Lapua brass fits factory chambers better because it is fatter all the way around. That single factor, in itself, should convince everyone to use Lapua. Afterall, why would anyone want a case whose neck has to expand .015" to seal the chamber???
 
#42
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

I'd be interested in seeing that article... if you happen to remember which magazine and about which year/month I'd certainly dig up a back issue for reading purposes.

From a competitive point of view, there is two major points in favor of Winchester .308 brass: it's cheap (which is debatable, once you sort/cull to tighten up the spread), and the thin walls/ light weight, which (generally) equates to more internal capacity. For those experimenting with heavier bullets and slower powders and trying to maximize velocity... the extra grain + of internal volume (55.80 water weight for Lapua vs. 57.10 for Winchester, on average) helps.
 
#43
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PolishHandgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use Lapua for my Grendel. They are the only source.

Carl </div></div>

Jamison International has brass for the Grendel.

I use Lapua for my bolt guns where I can
 
#44
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

HMMMMMMM.... mr. stoffles, i guess you are one of those guys who think some lapua brass turns a factory remington into a record setter. we are not talking about a ppc here. he will not cut his groups significantly (or measurably for that matter) by switching to lapua brass. maybe you have more money than the rest of us but i think his money would be better spent on a barrel. if he had a custom i might advise him to go for it. i feel my 308 will run with most here and i see no difference using lapua brass. i built a .250 short 308 (bat receiver and rock 17 twist barrel)to shoot score with. i use winchester 308 brass and have shot numerous groups in the 1's. i guess i should form some lapua brass and i could surely average in the 0's!

chuck
 
#45
Re: Is Lapua worth that much more?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoninP80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluesman423</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My goal is to reach 1/2" five shot groups @ 100 yds with my Remington SPS Tactical 308 topped with a Falcon 4.5 -18X scope.....</div></div>

if that's your only goal, i don't think you'd see a difference in accuracy. i'd just get the Win, and uniform/deburr the primer holes (that's what I do, it's a one time thing). use the $$ saved on bullets/powder/primers (and concentrate on consistently in your loading). bed the action, adjust to a clean trigger pull, crown the bbl if needed, but you probably are aware of that. </div></div>

If thats truly your ONLY goal, I don't think you will really see a diff either. A .5 in 100 yd group is pretty easily attainable with your setup, providing that you, and your loads are consistant, and your rifle is in good shape.

IMO were you will see the diff is when you start loading for the big end of the track, and you start stretching you rifles legs. Lapua brass is more dimentionally consistant ( case volume, neck & case wall thickness, etc ), better quality of manufacturing and material overall. The small things REALLY matter at longer ranges. And they all add up too...

This is all my .02 because I only use Lapua, & I've had my ass kicked many times by people who use RP and WW brass...And do far less prep...

Theres a lot to be said for plain and simple time behind the rifle...
 
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