Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Welllllll.........my reference to "benchrest accuracy" is because there are many benchrest rigs that given the many variables of shooting conditions etc using the absolute best in equipment are at times hard pressed to consistentyl shoot 1/4moa. Those gents are using the absolute best in everything made for the purpose and loading ammo to the absolute nut as for consistency. On their absolute best days sub 1/4moa is a piece of cake I am sure.

However, there are comments in this thread stating that 1/4moa was consistently possible and achievable with a factory gun and factory ammo non the less. Also numerous comments about 1/2moa being something the common Savage is repeatably capable of, NO???

Another however, I haven't seen ONE target posted yet with a true 1/4moa group more less multiple 1/4moa groups fired from a box stock factory Savage and damn sure not any using factory ammo. A lotta smoke, a lotta wind, a lotta shoulda coulda woulda but not ONE flippin target to verify what has been put into writing!!!!! WHY????

Make a liar out of me!!!!! Make me a believer!!!!

I have shot well over 100 different rifles in calibers from Hornet to 300Wea and 338WM, from Savage, Remington, S&W/Moss/Howa, Sako, Weatherby, Ruger, Stevens, Steyr, Browning, Mauser, Marlin etc etc and NO consistent 1/4 moa rigs. As well I have shot Shilen, Douglas, Hart, Obermeyer, Schneider, Lilja, ER Shaw, Rock, Krieger, and probably a couple other after market barreled rigs and none of those shot consistent 1/4moa! Some of those barreled by one of the best Silhouette handgun builders that built multiple National winning rigs! I have hand loaded well over 80K rounds since buying my first Rockchucker in '75 and never was the best shot and worse now because of the style of pacer I have but in all honesty I have killed alot of shit in my years so I tain't the worst either by any means. But yet I read of near newbies to rifle ownership and virtually NO shooting experience shooting all these sub 1/2moa groups out of the box?????

Again, "Where's the Beef", or for those to young to remember that commercial, 'Show me the flippin targets' and not BS in type on an internet forum.

Seems like an easy enough way to shut me up doesn't it?????? Hell, I have ate crow before and can gag it down again! All wind and NO pics so far!!!!!

Not gonna argue! So until someone posts some pics I am done with all the BS!

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Welllllll.........my reference to "benchrest accuracy" is because there are many benchrest rigs that given the many variables of shooting conditions etc using the absolute best in equipment are at times hard pressed to consistentyl shoot 1/4moa. Those gents are using the absolute best in everything made for the purpose and loading ammo to the absolute nut as for consistency. On their absolute best days sub 1/4moa is a piece of cake I am sure.

However, there are comments in this thread stating that 1/4moa was consistently possible and achievable with a factory gun and factory ammo non the less. Also numerous comments about 1/2moa being something the common Savage is repeatably capable of, NO???

Another however, I haven't seen ONE target posted yet with a true 1/4moa group more less multiple 1/4moa groups fired from a box stock factory Savage and damn sure not any using factory ammo. A lotta smoke, a lotta wind, a lotta shoulda coulda woulda but not ONE flippin target to verify what has been put into writing!!!!! WHY????

Make a liar out of me!!!!! Make me a believer!!!!

I have shot well over 100 different rifles in calibers from Hornet to 300Wea and 338WM, from Savage, Remington, S&W/Moss/Howa, Sako, Weatherby, Ruger, Stevens, Steyr, Browning, Mauser, Marlin etc etc and NO consistent 1/4 moa rigs. As well I have shot Shilen, Douglas, Hart, Obermeyer, Schneider, Lilja, ER Shaw, Rock, Krieger, and probably a couple other after market barreled rigs and none of those shot consistent 1/4moa! Some of those barreled by one of the best Silhouette handgun builders that built multiple National winning rigs! I have hand loaded well over 80K rounds since buying my first Rockchucker in '75 and never was the best shot and worse now because of the style of pacer I have but in all honesty I have killed alot of shit in my years so I tain't the worst either by any means. But yet I read of near newbies to rifle ownership and virtually NO shooting experience shooting all these sub 1/2moa groups out of the box?????

Again, "Where's the Beef", or for those to young to remember that commercial, 'Show me the flippin targets' and not BS in type on an internet forum.

Seems like an easy enough way to shut me up doesn't it?????? Hell, I have ate crow before and can gag it down again! All wind and NO pics so far!!!!!

Not gonna argue! So until someone posts some pics I am done with all the BS! </div></div>

See ya...

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Welllllll.........my reference to "benchrest accuracy" is because there are many benchrest rigs that given the many variables of shooting conditions etc using the absolute best in equipment are at times hard pressed to consistentyl shoot 1/4moa. Those gents are using the absolute best in everything made for the purpose and loading ammo to the absolute nut as for consistency. On their absolute best days sub 1/4moa is a piece of cake I am sure.

However, there are comments in this thread stating that 1/4moa was consistently possible and achievable with a factory gun and factory ammo non the less. Also numerous comments about 1/2moa being something the common Savage is repeatably capable of, NO???

Another however, I haven't seen ONE target posted yet with a true 1/4moa group more less multiple 1/4moa groups fired from a box stock factory Savage and damn sure not any using factory ammo. A lotta smoke, a lotta wind, a lotta shoulda coulda woulda but not ONE flippin target to verify what has been put into writing!!!!! WHY????

Make a liar out of me!!!!! Make me a believer!!!!

I have shot well over 100 different rifles in calibers from Hornet to 300Wea and 338WM, from Savage, Remington, S&W/Moss/Howa, Sako, Weatherby, Ruger, Stevens, Steyr, Browning, Mauser, Marlin etc etc and NO consistent 1/4 moa rigs. As well I have shot Shilen, Douglas, Hart, Obermeyer, Schneider, Lilja, ER Shaw, Rock, Krieger, and probably a couple other after market barreled rigs and none of those shot consistent 1/4moa! Some of those barreled by one of the best Silhouette handgun builders that built multiple National winning rigs! I have hand loaded well over 80K rounds since buying my first Rockchucker in '75 and never was the best shot and worse now because of the style of pacer I have but in all honesty I have killed alot of shit in my years so I tain't the worst either by any means. But yet I read of near newbies to rifle ownership and virtually NO shooting experience shooting all these sub 1/2moa groups out of the box?????

Again, "Where's the Beef", or for those to young to remember that commercial, 'Show me the flippin targets' and not BS in type on an internet forum.

Seems like an easy enough way to shut me up doesn't it?????? Hell, I have ate crow before and can gag it down again! All wind and NO pics so far!!!!!

Not gonna argue! So until someone posts some pics I am done with all the BS! </div></div>

See ya... </div></div>

That's an intelligent response that trumps proof and pics isn't it????? You have 'No issues' defending your comments with 'No proof'. Guess the net makes it easy to make a claim with just an 'I said so'? You guys are entertaining me on a boring Sat eve I guess!

Again, make me a liar! Should be pretty easy???

Ok, now I will wait for pics and as expected from this forum anymore, alot of name calling and BS. Oh, what I wouldn't give for the 'good ole days' of SH.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Welllllll.........my reference to "benchrest accuracy" is because there are many benchrest rigs that given the many variables of shooting conditions etc using the absolute best in equipment are at times hard pressed to consistentyl shoot 1/4moa. Those gents are using the absolute best in everything made for the purpose and loading ammo to the absolute nut as for consistency. On their absolute best days sub 1/4moa is a piece of cake I am sure.

However, there are comments in this thread stating that 1/4moa was consistently possible and achievable with a factory gun and factory ammo non the less. Also numerous comments about 1/2moa being something the common Savage is repeatably capable of, NO???

Another however, I haven't seen ONE target posted yet with a true 1/4moa group more less multiple 1/4moa groups fired from a box stock factory Savage and damn sure not any using factory ammo. A lotta smoke, a lotta wind, a lotta shoulda coulda woulda but not ONE flippin target to verify what has been put into writing!!!!! WHY????

Make a liar out of me!!!!! Make me a believer!!!!

I have shot well over 100 different rifles in calibers from Hornet to 300Wea and 338WM, from Savage, Remington, S&W/Moss/Howa, Sako, Weatherby, Ruger, Stevens, Steyr, Browning, Mauser, Marlin etc etc and NO consistent 1/4 moa rigs. As well I have shot Shilen, Douglas, Hart, Obermeyer, Schneider, Lilja, ER Shaw, Rock, Krieger, and probably a couple other after market barreled rigs and none of those shot consistent 1/4moa! Some of those barreled by one of the best Silhouette handgun builders that built multiple National winning rigs! I have hand loaded well over 80K rounds since buying my first Rockchucker in '75 and never was the best shot and worse now because of the style of pacer I have but in all honesty I have killed alot of shit in my years so I tain't the worst either by any means. But yet I read of near newbies to rifle ownership and virtually NO shooting experience shooting all these sub 1/2moa groups out of the box?????

Again, "Where's the Beef", or for those to young to remember that commercial, 'Show me the flippin targets' and not BS in type on an internet forum.

Seems like an easy enough way to shut me up doesn't it?????? Hell, I have ate crow before and can gag it down again! All wind and NO pics so far!!!!!

Not gonna argue! So until someone posts some pics I am done with all the BS! </div></div>

See ya... </div></div>

That's an intelligent response that trumps proof and pics isn't it????? You have 'No issues' defending your comments with 'No proof'. Guess the net makes it easy to make a claim with just an 'I said so'? You guys are entertaining me on a boring Sat eve I guess!

Again, make me a liar! Should be pretty easy???

Ok, now I will wait for pics and as expected from this forum anymore, alot of name calling and BS. Oh, what I wouldn't give for the 'good ole days' of SH. </div></div>

I posted a link to my target and I haven't called anyone any names or on here with !!!!! or ?????? or ...... You are the one that is all worked up about this.

Come to my match I run in Colorado every month, I'll shoot my Savage against whatever you want to bring for a benji. Put your money where your mouth is.

I thought you were done with this and leaving?

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I have shot a ton of stock rifles, remington and savage more than most.

I had a Savage 10 FCP-HS and it would hold 1 minute any day with decent ammo. My Remington (that belongs to my son now), holds 1 minute with decent ammo. I have shot, and posted here, some groups that were simply amazing. 5 groups on paper from one sitting, 1 minute is what they do.

I have seen repeat performance on that ^^^ level from most rifles from Remington and Savage. Not likely going to put GAP or Long Rifles, SAC, APA or anyone else out of business.

Savage does offer dang good rifles for the money with a lot of thought out, customer oriented decisions. So, if a guy only wanted a custom rifle because it had DBM, H-S precision or McMillian stock, then hell yeah Savage is going to put a dent in custom makers wallets.

I say that the guys that want a rifle that is dead-reliable to produce 1/4 moa results all day, every day, with any ammo thrown in it, then the custom maker is going to get the business over Savage.

Again, Savage is producing some rifles that have what 90% of the shooters want, and those 90% are going to be happy with a stock Savage.

For the record, my wife has a STOCK Savage Model 99 in 300 savage that produces 1/2 moa groups at 200 yards everytime. I will dig up some photos to prove.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Ohhhh, like a mentally challenged moth to a flame I just cannot help myself in reading responses and posting. Just call me a 'liar' when I said I wouldn't respond anymore

That should work NO?

Absolutely nowhere did I state that ALL Savages weren't capable of sub 1/2moa groups, I did state that ALL weren't "consistently capable" of sub 1/2 moa and especially sub 1/4moa groups. There is the exception to every make and model of rifle. I have shot numerous sub 1/4moa groups over the yrs from factory Remington's and custom barrels but you can put a gun to my head and no way in hell would I state they were consistent in that regard. Shot a .172 3 shot group from a pitted Rem factory 223 barrel I recut to 22/250AI and several sub .4's with handloads but sure as hell won't claim it is a sub 1/2moa barrel "consistently"!!!! Would you?

The "link" you posted goes to 1 page of a 55 page thread and your post on that page DOES NOT show a group of any kind, only a pic of your wife's rifle. I am bored as hell but not bored enough to read 55 pages of Savage threads to see what happens!!! Oh, and the pic of your wife's rig looks descent but I don't believe that is a factory Savage is it......or am I really stupid????? I tain't the smartest tool in my shop ya know!!!

Also I always enjoy the "well you drive drive 1000 miles, kiss my ass and shoot against me for a benji" and we'll see who is the best. Precious!

Almost as entertaining as the "I'll kick your ass" comments I have gotten a couple times from members here over the years when I disagreed with them or told them something that hurt their feelings. whaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Again, and as slowwwwww as I can type, I did not say ALL were inaccurate! Wonder why I have had several brought to me to look over and "try and work up a load that will shoot" if that be the case? I did get one from about 2" 3 shot groups down to almost 1.25" for 3 shots after bedding, recrowning and about 80 test loads!!!! Musta been a fluke?

Well, I just can't keep up this mind numbing pace of argueing. OP asked a question and made some comments, so I commented knowing there were gonna be comments like yours! .....and I wonder why I don't post much anymore???? Hmmmmmm Probably because I discovered that on the net I don't know near as much or have learned as much in my 35+yrs of gun tinkering as some internet posters have?????

So...again, where is a pic of your target with at least 5 5 shot groups under 1/2moa????

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ogreshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Savage does offer dang good rifles for the money with a lot of thought out, customer oriented decisions. So, if a guy only wanted a custom rifle because it had DBM, H-S precision or McMillian stock, then hell yeah Savage is going to put a dent in custom makers wallets.

I say that the guys that want a rifle that is dead-reliable to produce 1/4 moa results all day, every day, with any ammo thrown in it, then the custom maker is going to get the business over Savage.

</div></div>
And here is the same point brought up for the 2nd time in this thread that I can count...That no one seems to want to confront.

Go find me an off the shelf Salvage with my custom throat and chamber, fully adjustable furniture, threaded muzzle, nitrided bore, AND the aftermarket-ability of something like... oh IDK... a Remmy 700?

And while you're off to find me that, I'll go find you my pics of targets shot with my old Mosin Nagant that I got at a garage sale that could shoot half moa groups all day long. I've got the proof here somewhere, I'll just have to dig it up so bear with me.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ..... blah blah blah (in teacher's voice from Peanuts) ......

So...again, where is a pic of your target with at least 5 5 shot groups under 1/2moa???? </div></div>
If you didn't spend 45 minutes composing your (overly) verbose response, you would have seen I corrected the link to my target. You really must be bored. I don't know where you are coming up with 5 groups on a target. I'll start looking for multiple friends with factory Savages who shoot factory ammo and I'll get back to you. In reality, I don't give a shit about groups, if the bullet goes where I call it, it's good to me. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[calling4life]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

5 groups on a target would be to prove consistency, eluding to them all being shot the same day/time. As opposed to a 5 shot group here and there from multiple targets.
Showing the whole target also helps to ensure a guy doesn't fire 49 rounds and circle the best 5...

I can post up good groups from my stock skim bedded savage shooting factory ammo, but I don't have a target with multiple groups like is wanted. I usually get too bored and move further out.

But if a guy wants to call out custom rigs and make incredible claims, he really should show proof and a target with 5 - 5 shot groups would be "good enough"

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ..... blah blah blah (in teacher's voice from Peanuts) ......

So...again, where is a pic of your target with at least 5 5 shot groups under 1/2moa???? </div></div>
I'll start looking for multiple friends with factory Savages with factory ammo and I'll get back to you..... </div></div>

OK. Is this like " Just wait'll my brother gets off work cuz we're gonna come kick yer ass"?
I just don 't see the pics that prove all the Savage hoopla here. Face it. The guys who swear by Savage are just a bunch of tight wads or can't afford better and try at every opportunity to tell those who appreciate (and can afford it) "nice" equipment that they are stupid for spending money on it.
This is the typical class warfare that is being perpetuated by the socialist democrats. I bet if one of us who has some of that custom stuff just wanted to donate it to one of you Savage boys you'd snatch it up so fast it would break our arm.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Is that all you have?

Poor guy.

BTW, I am not a boy.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: calling4life</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5 groups on a target would be to prove consistency, eluding to them all being shot the same day/time. As opposed to a 5 shot group here and there from multiple targets.
Showing the whole target also helps to ensure a guy doesn't fire 49 rounds and circle the best 5...

I can post up good groups from my stock skim bedded savage shooting factory ammo, but I don't have a target with multiple groups like is wanted. I usually get too bored and move further out.

But if a guy wants to call out custom rigs and make incredible claims, he really should show proof and a target with 5 - 5 shot groups would be "good enough" </div></div>

Thank You! Guess I shoulda posted a 'pic' of what I wanted to see.

LL used to have a sticky at the top of this rifle forum with the 5 5 shot groups rule on 1(ONE) target was to be the ONLY way someone posted a target pic. He too was tired of the "1 5 shot group proves me and my rifle are a World Wonder" Bullshit!!! However when I posted I didn't look to verify it was still there and I sincerely apologize for my difficult requirement.

Didn't think it was that difficult to understand or that complicated to produce. I also sincerely apologize for making an 'unreasonable' request and should have just accepted the comments and statements concerning accuracy of Savage rifles to be true and factual with no BS involved. It won't happen again!



Still waiting for proof via pics though

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that all you have?

Poor guy.

BTW, I am not a boy.

</div></div>

You have a better rig? Let's hear it.....

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootforfun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The guys who swear by Savage are just a bunch of tight wads or can't afford better and try at every opportunity to tell those who appreciate (and can afford it) "nice" equipment that they are stupid for spending money on it.
</div></div>

I can afford to shoot whatever I want but I don't choose to spend as much on a build as others. I will be spending it on a different build soon. I don't see where I'm a tight wad for that? Or how I'm saying a savage is better than others. Based on my posts in this exact thread, I've pretty much said the opposite and been on your side of the fence than the others. I can get that you might be a little irritated but at the end of the day you guys are saying it's just the internet. So leave it at that and don't say stupid shit that doesn't make sense.

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Thread turned to poop...

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thread turned to poop... </div></div>

+1

 

[Bbob]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

well qd just what makes an AI better? There is one in our little group of poor hillbillys and it dont shoot any better than any thing else. just what makes it better? the stupid high price? or is it just kool looking? and besides who shoots groups in critters? 4 or 2 legs.

 

[z71rat]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thread turned to poop... </div></div>

As always...

DK

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that all you have?

Poor guy.

BTW, I am not a boy.

</div></div>

You have a better rig? Let's hear it..... </div></div>

Why would I list all my gear on here? I don't do Facebook or Twitter and I keep my shit as my shit.
I will tell you the only non custom I have is and AI. The other ten are all customs.
You do have me on the TBAC. I have a lowly YHM.
Would love a TBAC and it will come some day.
Should I dare tell you about the eleven NF scopes?
I am not flaunting my gear or the fact that I had the $$ to buy it. I see it all as not just the best kit but as a long term investment. In the mean time, I will just shoot it and learn as much as I can about it and enjoy it.
BTW, I do have a Savage. I guess it's a lemon because it won't shoot the kind of groups I hear all the Savage "boys" talk about.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Short answer is yes. A Savage can provide the accuracy many people chase with a custom rifle. Will they admit it? Possibly but not likely. Their excuses are always the same. Reliability and resale. Truth is 99% of the members on this forum do not need "reliability" of a custom or AI or whatever it is they dropped 3K plus on. They just have the available funds and what they do with it is their business. But I would be willing to bet they will never put their "custom" through the torture the manufactures claim they will stand up against. Accuracy is pretty simple. My factory savage will shoot 1/2 moa. Period. I know a load of others that do the same. That's why I will continue to support them and purchase their products. This argument is always comical. It all comes down to who is behind the rifle. No matter what it is or who made it. I think that is one thing we can all agree on. Some guys around also have rifles that are a "status" and will never agree that a savage or salvage is anything close to a high dollar rifle. I have seen it at my range and here on this forum. Truth be told it doesn't bother me to much because that's just less people in line to get one next time I decide to buy.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Again... SERIOUSLY???

I also have TWO AIAWs each with: Thunderbeast 30-P1 cans, Spuhr 44.4 MOA mounts, S&B 5-25x56 scopes (H2CMR), and Atlas bipods (in other words, the best of everything).

Can you say the same, boy? </div></div>

Seriously??????? I mean Seriously????

You bought 2 of them overpriced pieces of shit with them worthless S&B scopes???? Seriously??? Why not support the US made manufacturers like Savage who you have been defending???? They seem to shoot as good or better on an average so you have been claiming!!!!! No wonder our fricking economy sucks, it is the elite 1% such as yourself buying overseas made garbage just because you can whilst us po folk are left with US made chit!!!! Yes I am being sarcastic about AI and S&B but really.......

Talk about a contridictory arguement. Brag and defend how well an American made rifle shoots then brag about paying $10K+ not once but twice for something no better as far as accuracy was your arguement. Your funny!!!!!! You just proved that all you wanted was an arguement!!! Nothing but trying to appear smarter etc then myself! What a tool! Did I mention anywhere on why I don't post much anymore???? Example ^^^^^^^^ if I didn't. I am done with this horseshit hypocracy!!!!!

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Snipedogg,
I do seem to remember you had a Savage in 6.5 CM for sale here a while back. I don't think you can make claims about it's factory accuracy because it had a bit of custom work done on it.
Also, IIRC, it had a pretty hefty price on it.
BTW, what I posted was no more stupid shit than what you ghey Savage guys have posted already in this thread.

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Snipedogg,
I do seem to remember you had a Savage in 6.5 CM for sale here a while back. I don't think you can make claims about it's factory accuracy because it had a bit of custom work done on it.
Also, IIRC, it had a pretty hefty price on it.
BTW, what I posted was no more stupid shit than what you ghey Savage guys have posted already in this thread. </div></div>

Really? Attacks are getting personal now. Time to cut it out. This is making all of you look like a bunch of bickering girls.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I think what SWD was trying to do with the 5 shot, 5 groups statement was to get you to prove consistancy. I've shot a truck load of rifles in my life to .5 moa groups but NONE of them were .5 moa rifles. One, or two or even three sub moa groups does not a sub moa rifle make. A sub moa rifle shoots sub moa consistantly, all the time (minus the "jerks" by the trigger puller). In my 40+ years of shooting, I've seen exactly 1 proven .25 moa factory rifle and its a 40X Remmy owned by a good friend chambered in '06, its a lazer as they say. I'm sure not saying Savage dosn't build this kind of rifle, just saying I have never seen it proven or even pics that would prove it and yes, it'll take more than a pic of one group. BTW, I havn't seen any of the other factorys lovers prove this either so I'm not pushing any other make or model. Put up or shut up, no matter what make you're pushin.

okie

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

EWOAF, I am a little lost (no, not being a smartass, just really lost).
Which point is brought up a 2nd time here? I don't mean to be rude, enough of that here already. I don't need you to agree with me or hold my hand, I just want to know what point so I could further clarify it for anyone else. Maybe even confront the issue??

Thanks,

Wally

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWOAF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ogreshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Savage does offer dang good rifles for the money with a lot of thought out, customer oriented decisions. So, if a guy only wanted a custom rifle because it had DBM, H-S precision or McMillian stock, then hell yeah Savage is going to put a dent in custom makers wallets.

I say that the guys that want a rifle that is dead-reliable to produce 1/4 moa results all day, every day, with any ammo thrown in it, then the custom maker is going to get the business over Savage.

</div></div>
And here is the same point brought up for the 2nd time in this thread that I can count...That no one seems to want to confront.

Go find me an off the shelf Salvage with my custom throat and chamber, fully adjustable furniture, threaded muzzle, nitrided bore, AND the aftermarket-ability of something like... oh IDK... a Remmy 700?

And while you're off to find me that, I'll go find you my pics of targets shot with my old Mosin Nagant that I got at a garage sale that could shoot half moa groups all day long. I've got the proof here somewhere, I'll just have to dig it up so bear with me.
</div></div>

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Snipedogg,
I do seem to remember you had a Savage in 6.5 CM for sale here a while back. I don't think you can make claims about it's factory accuracy because it had a bit of custom work done on it.
Also, IIRC, it had a pretty hefty price on it.
BTW, what I posted was no more stupid shit than what you ghey Savage guys have posted already in this thread. </div></div>

Once again, your eating your own shit. I geared that whole reply to everybody saying stupid shit. Only thing I asked you was how I was a cheap ass and CLEARLY had more of an understanding of your side of the topic in many ways. In my post I mentioned I had a savage custom built. WTF does that have to do with anything in the first place? Same concept as building off any other action. I took what I had and built off of it. I like the factory offering Savage has and I also love the majority of the custom rigs here and will be building one soon to suit the needs that a savage will not suit. I'm not taking sides in this battle but you said all savage guys are cheap asses and it wasn't the case. Case closed.

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Gotta love Savage threads. More raging hormones than a women's prison.

If having a relationship with the butterface girls of the rifle world is what trips your trigger, great for you.

I'm glad she can suck a golf ball through a garden hose. If she feels like a lizard and has a face that scares small children, don't expect everyone to share your excitement.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Snipe,
I am not saying that everyone who says their Savage will shoot 1/2 MOA is a liar.
I am not trying to pick a fight with any one.
It seems that some of the Savage guys here have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to those who own custom builds and try to say we are the stupid ones for spending our money on them.
There is a Savage 10FPC in my safe right now. It is unfired so I have no claim as to what it will deliver. When my son can afford the scope for it we'll see. I hope it is nearly as good as the ones all you guys have.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gotta love Savage threads. More raging hormones than a women's prison.

If having a relationship with the butterface girls of the rifle world is what trips your trigger, great for you.

I'm glad she can suck a golf ball through a garden hose. If she feels like a lizard and has a face that scares small children, don't expect everyone to share your excitement.



</div></div>

Thanks for bringing such a large amount of logic to the thread. These threads always get out of control.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gotta love Savage threads. More raging hormones than a women's prison.

If having a relationship with the butterface girls of the rifle world is what trips your trigger, great for you.

I'm glad she can suck a golf ball through a garden hose. If she feels like a lizard and has a face that scares small children, don't expect everyone to share your excitement.

</div></div>

LOL
You know, I've never thought my AI was beautiful. And the argument is not about looks. It's about quality and accuracy.

 

[poison123]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Why does it seem like people with Savages always start these bullshit threads?

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I watched savages shooting at golf ball sized targets at 1000 with 15 power scopes. I watched a savage cold bore a 1535 target with a shooter that never fired the weapon before. I seen a .5 moa target at 600 get wore out. I fired several hits over and over at 1100 yard hits with my savage .260. I have 1k in my savage and would put it against my ai any day of the week.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watched savages shooting at golf ball sized targets at 1000 with 15 power scopes. I watched a savage cold bore a 1535 target with a shooter that never fired the weapon before. I seen a .5 moa target at 600 get wore out. I fired several hits over and over at 1100 yard hits with my savage .260. I have 1k in my savage and would put it against my ai any day of the week. </div></div>

I would never own an AI. Pretty much for the simple reason that I could purchase 3 or more savages for the same price. Fact is Savage brings enough accuracy and reliability that 99% of the people on this forum need.

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Accuracy isn't the only thing you get from a custom or high end rifle. I think thats what is getting everybody so bent out of shape. The title of the topic was whether or not Savage would hurt the aftermaket, not comparing accuracy.

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does it seem like people with Savages always start these bullshit threads? </div></div>

[smartass]To justify buying one.[/smartass]

Same reason that people jump in and start name calling and mud flinging: Just can't help themselves. I know that there is at LEAST 2 of these threads a month, and by response 25 or 30, names are called and butts are sore.

I like Savages, always have. FOR THE MOST PART, they are quite accurate guns. I mean, really, how ACCURATE does a rifle need to be for what most do? As I saw in a post above, "Minute of Cows Ass" is all we need to accomplish. I know I can shoot 6" at 600 yards with my Savage Long Range Hunter in 300 WinMag. I know because I do it all the time preparing for hunting season. I know I can accurately put 1 bullet through the boiler room of an Elk at 600 yards without fail (conditions being fair, not tornado like winds). 1st shot every time from a bore that was cleaned then 3 fouling shots. To ME, that is what I expect from a rifle, and mine does it without fail. It had the options I wanted, and the price I could afford at that time.

So, point I am trying to make, FOR ME, is that I have no reason to buy a custom 300 winmag for hunting because mine is ACCURATE AND REPEATABLE ENOUGH for my shooting. Yep, I handload for my rifle. I like 208 grain Amax bullets cruising at 2900fps. I DO NOT really and truly care for the factory muzzle break. But 90% of the gun (or more) is what I need. And for the $700 I have into the rifle itself, it is perfect FOR ME.

That said, I have a custom rifle en route from Chad Dixon because I wanted it and I could not sleep without having a (more or less) custom rifle. I wanted one, I plan to shoot tactical matches, and I had a coupon for 1/2 of a barrel, super deal on a bottom metal (Made in the USA by CDI), and Chad's prices and quality were hard to pass up. I worked a metric butt load of overtime over 4 months to afford it, and that is what I wanted to do. Will I be able to use it to it's utmost potential? Hell, I hope so. I practice enough with everything I own, so I hope to do it SOME justice.

End diatribe.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Pop corn time!

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watched savages shooting at golf ball sized targets at 1000 with 15 power scopes. I watched a savage cold bore a 1535 target with a shooter that never fired the weapon before. I seen a .5 moa target at 600 get wore out. I fired several hits over and over at 1100 yard hits with my savage .260. I have 1k in my savage and would put it against my ai any day of the week. </div></div>

I would never own an AI. Pretty much for the simple reason that I could purchase 3 or more savages for the same price. Fact is Savage brings enough accuracy and reliability that 99% of the people on this forum need. </div></div>

Ok you want a cookie, or 3 gummy bears...didn't ask if you would care to own one. I own one and savages, each rifle has its place. I would buy another ai, but savage won't take over the market to many politics, egos, and fads for those to die off. Instead more feelings to be hurt by savage shooters.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watched savages shooting at golf ball sized targets at 1000 with 15 power scopes. I watched a savage cold bore a 1535 target with a shooter that never fired the weapon before. I seen a .5 moa target at 600 get wore out. I fired several hits over and over at 1100 yard hits with my savage .260. I have 1k in my savage and would put it against my ai any day of the week. </div></div>

I would never own an AI. Pretty much for the simple reason that I could purchase 3 or more savages for the same price. Fact is Savage brings enough accuracy and reliability that 99% of the people on this forum need. </div></div>

Ok you want a cookie, or 3 gummy bears...didn't ask if you would care to own one. I own one and savages, each rifle has its place. I would buy another ai, but savage won't take over the market to many politics, egos, and fads for those to die off. Instead more feelings to be hurt by savage shooters. </div></div>


Thanks. Point proven. Politics, EGOS and FADS. So it's not about function or reliability. It's about egos and fads. Well I could give 2 shits less about egos and fads. Don't care how cool my rifle looks. Don't give a flying rats ass if it is 1/4 the price of the bozo next to me at the range. bottom line is it works when called upon better than most if not all other rifles in a similar price range. You can have your politics, egos, fads, cookie and 3 gummy bears. Don't need that shit. Got what works for me and I will stick with it.

 

[Shooter1165]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

It also comes down to if you are in a position like me being a left hander and having decided over 20 years ago not to own a right handed bolt gun again. I do have 2 of the original left hand Savage FP110 in ,223 and 300wm and yes they do shoot well (.4-.5moa) but they needed alot of work (stocks, triggers and blue printing)to get them to were they are now. and they still don't seem to shoot as well as my custom Stiller tacs in 243, 308, and 338lm. And yes i do go throught 10000-15000 rounds a year in practise. And also none of the factory rifles like savage, remington, tikka do any of their tricked up gear for left handers. So for me there will always be a need for top end custom guns.

 

[calling4life]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Here is where the problem lies
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There have been, and there are now even more, Savage rifles, that are 'consistently accurate' out of the box.
I started off with a Savage 10 Predator Hunter Max 1, bolted on a Choate Tactical stock, and used boxed Cor-Bon box ammo, and immediately shot <span style="font-weight: bold">.25"-.37" groups, consistently at 100 yards.</span> This was followed up with first round hits at 600, 850, and 925 yards.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ankeny</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I recently bought a Savage Max 1 Predator in 6.5-284 and it shoots in the .3's-.4's.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My passion for proving to my 'die hard custom rifle owning, custom hand loading' friends wrong, didn't end at my $850 rifle. I always used box ammo. Don't get me wrong, I reload, and firmly believe in it. But, there is nothing like <span style="font-weight: bold">1/4", 5 shot groups, with an $850 rifle and off the shelf ammo, consistently!</span></div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had three different calibers of Cor-Bon ammo(22-250, .260, and 338 Lapua), that have all been sub 1/2 moa, and I have all of my targets saved in my phone.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they[Savage] are manufacturing sub $1,000 rifles capable of <span style="font-weight: bold">consistenly grouping less than 0.5 MOA. We have one that groups consistently in the SUB 0.3 MOA </span>in 270 Win.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's tons of guys on these threads shooting stock savages under 1/2 moa, with proof!!!</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ogreshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the record, my wife has a STOCK Savage Model 99 in 300 savage that produces 1/2 moa groups at 200 yards everytime. I will dig up some photos to prove. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy is pretty simple. My factory savage will shoot 1/2 moa. Period. I know a load of others that do the same.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watched savages shooting at golf ball sized targets at 1000 with 15 power scopes. I watched a savage cold bore a 1535 target with a shooter that never fired the weapon before. I seen a .5 moa target at 600 get wore out. I fired several hits over and over at 1100 yard hits with my savage .260. I have 1k in my savage and would put it against my ai any day of the week. </div></div>

 

[calling4life]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

All of that talk, plus there was more, but anything somewhat verified, I didn't touch, like the one gentleman that actually posted a target, and another that claimed placing in matches, I'm sure that could be verified, I don't care enough to do so.

So, as a Savage owner and shooter myself, you see all these claims, even claims of having pictures, yet you don't post them. That should raise a flag for anyone, period, a simple, go do a search for photos doesn't work here because this thread was started as a sort of slight against customs on the basis that Savages hang with them. YOU NEED PROOF TO SAY SHIT LIKE THIS

This should be simple, if you claim your stock Savage shoots xxx consistently, post the pictures, post the proof, the facts, the evidence, so the original point can be made.

Again, I don't have a multiple group target, but I can post some of my pics, my savage has been skim bedded though.
4 shots at 400 w/ fed 168gm

3 shots @ 100

3 @ 100 again

5 shots @ 300 using a 1 mil holdover

 

[calling4life]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Maybe I keep going to see if others will follow...
4 @ 200 yards, one on lowest right was shot first, I made adjustments and shot my remaining 4 shots for the group.(not bullshitting)

3 @ 200

6 at 100 with 175 gr federal gold medal, the 6th f'ed this up

The 5 shot group

300 yards, 3 shots holding one mil on the tear, not the most accurate way to do things, but grouped ok

Now with federal 180 grain trophy tip hunting ammo
5@ 300

630 yards, the specs on target are off, as it would only let me do 600.

 

[X-fan]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Top end Savage barreled actions are accurate enough for sure.
I believe team Savage wins quite a few shoots.

That said I believe accuracy and shootablility are differing matters. A bench rest rifle though it is plenty accurate will be tough to shoot prone. A good fitting rifle helps form a consistent and repeatable mount/cheek weld, trigger finger position etc. bla bla bla.

For me the expensive factory Savage stocks fit and feel like a bag of hammers.

For a guy starting out a Stevens 200/custom prefit barrel/ tweaked trigger/ and a good fitting stock are a viable alternative. I understand you can build a rifle like that for less than Savage charges for their fancy rifle.

 

[shooter53]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

As a custom gun builder myself, I believe the newer factory weapons are actually helping the custom build business! With more and more shooters getting better and better at shooting, there is more of a demand for the custom (just right for me) rifle. Think about this, the guy that goes out and buys a new Ferreri probably didn't own a Ford Focus as his last car!?
Typically it's the guy that had a Dodge Viper or Chevy Corvette.
Most of our clients have owned plenty of great shooting factory weapons but now they are looking for something very specific, that's where the custom builders come in.

As for accuracy, there is accurate and consistently accurate. When you purchase a factory gun, there is a good chance you will get a very good shooting weapon. When you purchase a custom purpose built gun you are getting a guaranteed consistently great shooting weapon. Some of the factory high end weapons can cost over half of what a custom will cost, and then it's hit or miss on accuracy. I'm not sure I'd like to gamble $1,500 to $1,800 on a poor or adequate shooting weapon.

Bottom line though, I read an article in a gun magazine a few years back and the author ( sorry , I can't remember his name) covered all the pros and cons listed in this thread. His final summation was," the only valid reason to buy a custom built gun was because I want one! "

Shoot more and have fun!

Howard Mahute

Rumble Wepnz
Milton, FL.

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Howard! Funny to see you chime in on this I thought about calling you yesterday actually. You'll hear from me later today.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I think this post is also along the lines of what you were talking about Ogreshooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And no, it's not "because we can"...

If Savage made a 284 winchester, throated for 162gr Hornadys, in a McM stock with loggerhead cheekpiece, with a fluted 26" M40 contour barrel plus contoured muzzle brake, I'd of just bought one. But they don't.

I could have bought something "kind of similar" from them, but I didn't want something "kinda similar". I wanted what I wanted, and I had to build it myself.

That all said, if Savage DID build it, they'd sell exactly ONE - to me...so it wouldn't make a whole lot of business sense for them to make it. </div></div>

 

[nobody13]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Why don't all of you just set up a shoot. Savage against custom. Settle the controversy once and for all!!! I would love to see the results. I am also sure that quite a few of you don't have half the kit you claim, but it's the internet. I have both rem. and savage and love both. The proof would be in the pudding, so how about stopping the pissing contest and start figuring out where the match will be!!! How about regional, then one for the top ten of each region?

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I don't see how it could <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span>affect the custom market, to at least some degree. If not the "custom" market, at least the "customizing" market...

There will always be those that can stroke a check for $3-$5K without batting an eyelash, and they'll always be the custom market.

Then there are the guys that want consistent, sub-moa accuracy that just want to shoot well, but aren't competition shooters and don't need, or want to pay for, that little extra "edge".

It's those guys, the ones that would buy an off-the-shelf 700 and send it to the smith to have the action trued and the lugs lapped before they even bothered to shoot it- that may end up in the Savage camp.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobody13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't all of you just set up a shoot. Savage against custom. Settle the controversy once and for all!!! I would love to see the results. I am also sure that quite a few of you don't have half the kit you claim, but it's the internet. I have both rem. and savage and love both. The proof would be in the pudding, so how about stopping the pissing contest and start figuring out where the match will be!!! How about regional, then one for the top ten of each region?

</div></div>


Ummm, off the internet I shoot practical precision rifle matches as often as possible. Savages are present sometimes, but not often. Custom built rifles are there ALL THE TIME.

How bout you just take your Savage to a match and shoot? Ohh yeah, its the internet.....

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market? Hell NO!!!

But they're beating the shit out of Remington right now.