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Is something going on in Ukraine?
- Thread starter Cardboard55
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The West didn’t poke the bear. Putin has been bribing boat loads of Western, European, and Asian politicians to do his bidding for decades, just as former Russian strong men have done, while HE has been invading and scheming to expand Russia’s borders even before he was President.
The US was propping Russia up in the 1990s with Nunn-Lugar with billions in aid.
Russia is resource-limited in several critical areas, namely electronics, automated production facilities, competent manufacturing personnel, infrastructure, and most importantly-deep sea ports with proximity to the trade routes. I thought we went over this already.
This BS story about the West provoking Putin needs to stop. He had already planned to expand Russia’s control over the nations surrounding it like every other expansionist Russian authoritarian has done throughout history when they had the chance.
This is like the abusive, drunken wife-beater who comes home and knocks around his kids for whatever reason, then blames them for it. Total POS character who must be correctly called-out for it and not have excuses made for the behavior by apologists.
i bet you think we didn't arm terrorists in syria.
it was well documented and not disputed that ukrainian nazi battalions killed over 3500 civilians in the donbas before russia invaded.
this was after the west helped overthrow the pro-russian government.
how many were killed in the US by saudi terrorists before we invaded afghanistan?
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No, this is absolutely disputed and not accurate. Russian nationalist/separatists and Putin loyalists initiated the Donbas War after Putin lost his puppet, Yanukovych in 2014. This was a typical Russian false flag operation, same way they initiate all their conflicts.
You don’t start the history of Ukraine in spring of 2014 and move forward under a Russian narrative. Just because you consume years of Russian propaganda feed from Twitter does not even remotely inform you about this region and its history. You have been misinformed, or are propagating misinformation purposely.
The West didn’t run Ukrainian protests for 4 months from late 2013-2014. Ukrainians wanted to trade with the EU. We’ve been over this before and you refuse to include the history of what happened.
Ukraine will never forget what Russia has done to them, from ancient times to the Holodomor, and from the purges and forced removals to the present. The US or West had nothing to do with that.
79% of Ukraine are anti-Russian influence in their nation and independence. The pro-Russian transplants in Donbas and Crimea have been systematically located there for centuries in prep for what we see now.
Yanukovych tried to Russify them per Putin’s instructions, and they overthrew him.
You act like 33.97 million Ukrainians just sit waiting around for the West to tell them what to do, as if they don’t know about their history and long struggle with the cruelty and brutality of Russian aggression for centuries.
This shows that you aren’t loyal to the facts, and are sticking to this cursed Russian propaganda BS. How much are you paid, because your post rate per day with a constant stream of Russian excrement corresponds with what normal working men do during their work days.
The pussy Penn never put a uniform on. He has kids, why won't the pussy send them over there? It would be a wonderful family thing for him and his two children to serve together with rifles in hand in the trenches against the evil Putin.
sorry dude. before 2022, it was not even disputed that nazi battalions were slaughtering civilians.No, this is absolutely disputed and not accurate. Russian nationalist/separatists and Putin loyalists initiated the Donbas War after Putin lost his puppet, Yanukovych in 2014. This was a typical Russian false flag operation, same way they initiate all their conflicts.
You don’t start the history of Ukraine in spring of 2014 and move forward under a Russian narrative. Just because you consume years of Russian propaganda feed from Twitter does not even remotely inform you about this region and its history. You have been misinformed, or are propagating misinformation purposely.
The West didn’t run Ukrainian protests for 4 months from late 2013-2014. Ukrainians wanted to trade with the EU. We’ve been over this before and you refuse to include the history of what happened.
Ukraine will never forget what Russia has done to them, from ancient times to the Holodomor, and from the purges and forced removals to the present. The US or West had nothing to do with that.
79% of Ukraine are anti-Russian influence in their nation and independence. The pro-Russian transplants in Donbas and Crimea have been systematically located there for centuries in prep for what we see now.
Yanukovych tried to Russify them per Putin’s instructions, and they overthrew him.
You act like 33.97 million Ukrainians just sit waiting around for the West to tell them what to do, as if they don’t know about their history and long struggle with the cruelty and brutality of Russian aggression for centuries.
This shows that you aren’t loyal to the facts, and are sticking to this cursed Russian propaganda BS. How much are you paid, because your post rate per day with a constant stream of Russian excrement corresponds with what normal working men do during their work days.
and nuland was caught on audio plotting the regime change.
the ukrainian people were not allowed to choose. this isn't saving democracy.
I did a time window search on neo-Nazis in Donbas pre-Oct 2013.
Nothing came up. All the claims of Nazis in Donbas emerged after Putin set up the false flag in Donbas in 2014.
There are a lot of “coincidences" in Ukraine in 2014.
Putin’s puppet ousted
False flags in Donbas
Emergence of Ukrainian Nazis who have no mention prior
Hunter Biden getting on the board of Burisma
Elena Baturina wiring $3.5 million to Hunter Biden
Obama telling David Cameron to shut down the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma
It’s weird how Russian propagandists never want to discuss or acknowledge the political influence and treason of those who did Putin’s bidding, including Hillary Clinton as SECSTATE, Obama, and the Bidens (Hunter, James, on behalf of Joe).
Explain how the US is provoking Putin while doing his bidding all those years, especially in 2014. You can’t have it both ways.
dude, put the pipe down.
the donbas was part of russia until lenin expanded ukraine and crimea has only been part of ukraine for 60 years.
Kievan Rus built Moscow. I’ve literally seen the statue myself dedicated to Yuri Dolgoruki in Moscow.
If you want to erase Yekaterinoslav Gubernia from history, and re-write everything from Russian perspective for dumb Mongo-slav peasants, sure.
Same as Finland invading Russia in World War II, which is openly displayed in the maps in the Central Red Army Museum in Moskva.
Russians will believe anything, as long as it is pro-Russia.
so each time you are proven mistaken you change the subject?
idiot. In 1941 Finland invaded the USSR during the Continuation War. we've been over this.
War of Continuation | Finnish history
Other articles where War of Continuation is discussed: Finland: Cooperation with Germany: The “War of Continuation” (1941–44) began with a successful Finnish offensive that led to the capture of large areas of eastern Karelia. Some Finns were reluctant, however, to cross the old border of 1939...
www.britannica.com
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Post links if you can. Interested in readin more about his. And I'm not looking for the casualties of the 2014-and beyond war. Talkin about the genocide some keep mentioning.
But remember he has less balls then the tranny thing that got its hand almost blown off. Its the reason he cant. His bitch wife has more tess and balls than he does!
The Ukrainian people WERE allowed to choose.
They chose Zelensky.
...who ran on a platform of avoiding war and peace with Russia. He won overwhelmingly on this platform of peace, then promptly turned around and asked his masters, "What would you like me to do first?" ignoring everything he promised as a campaigning politician.
No different than our president saying this would be the "most transparent" administration ever, or how the Democrat party suddenly are super pro-Black folks 18 months before every 4 year election... then forget they exist in favor of brown and LGBT people until the next election.
They say ANYTHING to get elected knowing they will never be held accountable for what they promised as a candidate.
Are you talking about in 2014 when it was annexed? Think of it like eastern Oregon wanting to join Idaho to get away from Portland politics when those 2020 protests happened, if eastern Oregon had a full on military garrison that was supported by Idaho for 250 years.
In Crimea, Russian Military was there as Moscow has held it as a military base since 1780 ish. Except for a few years during Ww2 when axis forces pushed them out. So nobody started causing trouble, literally flipped with out anyone killed. As a point of strength, when the Ukrainian military came around, they were held off. So Kiev cut off electricity and water supply to the Island.
Donbas on the other had was an industrial center, not a Island which contained multiple Russian military bases like Crimea. So the Ukrainian military with western mercs(yes they were there too) had more success in fighting off the “pro Russian” uprising, and Russian mercs trying to maintain their interests. Things got bloody.
In Russia’s opinion these actions were done to protect Russian funded assets, not an unprovoked invasion. Similar to how the US military is in Syria to protect the Conoco oil fields, British holding off Argentina in the Falkland Islands. Nato curb stomping Iraq for attacking Kuwait, USA protecting investment in Taiwan or any of the long list military adventures NATO has engaged in since it was formed to protect perceived assets and investment . Yes in Ukraine, Russia was attempting to protect what it saw as in it sphere of Influence from being taken from them in a violent, western supported( remember John McCain in kiev speech) uprising.
That "Russian" territory that the Finns invaded, how long had Russia controlled it prior to the invasion?
If you get your history from the Red Army museum, well...
Land exchanges in Europe over the last few thousand years mapped.
Minsk 1 and 2 agreements were signed in 14 and 15. Donbas was now a sovereign nation. Ukraine agreed to stop the attacks and pull out the artillery.
Didn't Russia achieve what they wanted at that point?
Neither side up held the treaty and small scale fighting continued. I still think Russia had aspirations in the region, just as much as the west wanted control over it. Neither side achieved what they wanted is my opinion.
Listen to what Blinken says at this UN meeting, he rejects calls for a cease fire proposed by China. Stating Russian will use it to build troop etc , saying it's what they did after Minsk 2... thing is the West did the same thing... Look up the California National gaurd pilot (Seth Nehring) was killed in a SU-27 crash while over training Ukrainians. Or when Poroshenko sent ships under the Kerch straight to cause an incident. Pot Kettle black thing.
i think so (from their perspective) but then we know merkel and others already admitted minsk was just a delay tactic to allow the west to arm ukraine, and then of course the uke nazis not only kept killing people in the donbas, but increased the attacks.
Biden, NATO Attack China's Ukraine War Peace Proposals
"Putin is applauding it, so how could it be any good?" U.S. President Joe Biden said of the Chinese peace plan.
www.breitbart.com
Another western news discussion where they, the west doesn't support peace because they see it as losing.
Ukraine has Historically been aligned or attached to Moscow for the last 250, nearly as long as the US has been a country. An we in the west, Especially the United States think we should be dictating what's going on on their border... That is not realistic. Its the land of fairy tales and unicorns.
Ukraine has Historically been aligned or attached to Moscow for the last 250, nearly as long as the US has been a country. An we in the west, Especially the United States think we should be dictating what's going on on their border... That is not realistic. Its the land of fairy tales and unicorns.
Neither side? Which side was retaliation?
An agreement was signed. Borders drawn. Someone threw the first punch. Someone broke the agreement. No need for Russia to do so. They already had what they wanted.
And fuck blinken!! One minute he's saying that Russia can't sustain this war with Ukraine for multiple reasons. The next minute he's saying that Russia is going to take over Europe. You can't have it both ways.
Russia= GDP of Texas
Russia= can't win a skirmish against Ukraine
Russia= Take over the world!!
Sesame Street says one of these things is not like the other. One of these things doesn't belong
The potato said yesterday that they aren't sending F16's now but they may need them in years two or three. 2 or 3?? Ohh wait. We were financing the eight years of attacks. A boom for the uke's oligarchy and the USA oligarchy. Russia finally has enough and decided to put an end to it. Putin probably underestimated the oligarchy of the USA. Which seized the moment to now openly launder money. They used the propaganda machine to get the stooopid to support it. Now they are looking for a protracted engagement. Except the uke's are running out of manpower including the foreign volunteers.
So pretty much the same as the story of USA president Woodrow Wilson.
Who ran on a similar platform and once elected brutally cracked down on any speech that the government didn't like and went into a full on propaganda war to do the exact opposite of what everybody voted for them to do.
Then of course sent jackbooted thugs to arrest, or kill anyone who wasn't going along with the program.
I don’t know, as far as who threw first.
Agree, FUCK BLINKEN!!!!! the people leading the west in to this seemly live with their heads far up their asses. Refuse to accept that their political arrogance and aggression led to violence.
UN if it wanted could inact a line of no contact and negotiate a peace. That is the entire reason for the UN. Both sides are going to have to give concessions though. People like Blinken are standing in the way of peace. I don’t see his jew ass out in a fox hole.
the dominantly ethnic russian population in the south and eastern ukraine have suffered a long train of abuses under the anti-russian regimes since 2014. this was the first time anyone there has lived under a regime openly hostile to what many would consider their homeland.
they overwhelmingly passed a referendum in those regions voting for autonomy from a regime that hates them for being russian.
they deserve to choose and the west opposes any opportunity for them to verify under another vote. no secrets to why.
the hypocrisy is so think you can float in it.
they overwhelmingly passed a referendum in those regions voting for autonomy from a regime that hates them for being russian.
they deserve to choose and the west opposes any opportunity for them to verify under another vote. no secrets to why.
the hypocrisy is so think you can float in it.
I have read a few times that the annexation of Crimea was Putin retribution for the maidan, a tit for tat. Not sure how accurate that is, could be?
A little Diddy here.
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also, crimea has always been so predominantly russian, and has only been "part of ukraine" since the 60s (khrushchev).
like the regions in the donbas, crimea also overwhelmingly voted to be part of russia.
crimea and the contested regions were once all part of their own "nation" and then absorbed under mother russia.
i don't think khrushchev ever dreamed in his wildest nightmares that crimea would end up in the hands of a regime and its allies that want nothing less than the destruction of russia.
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I would not say always but for the last 250 years yes. Again nearly as long as the United States has existed and longer than most states have been a part of it.
Hell Alaska was still owned by Russians when the Russians took control of Crimea.
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I was raised by a Mom who we called "The Queen of the Guilt Trip"....
You are going to have to turn up your guilt trip message a few notches for anyone to pay attention.
Photos or it did not happen.
No returns.
No guilt.
Have you ever lived during a AI Chatbot meme war? Do you at least know what it's like when a meme goes over your head, which will now destroy an entire thread, in which a dozen people will get there feels hurt? Do you even know what an Haney report is, which can happen 100 times a day, and you have to constantly lower yourself to the idiocy of other posters to survive? Do you know what it's like to live in a basement and eat hot pockets with the help of your mom? No, you are only worried about some likes, although you did not see or feel the real problem. It's sad that this is how people show their lack of intelligence.
Ummmm china already has this. But okay. Unless we are talking western countries.
Virginia Walker...from Paris....right! And my real name is Raja Shmandervindaloo.. Why would you even use a woman's name, silly!
Tell us your real Slavic name
this is a gun board, so:
KALASHNIKOV SENT MODIFIED AK-12 RIFLES TO SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION ZONE FOR EVALUATION
Support SouthFront
The AK-12 assault rifle.
A batch of modified AK-12 assault rifles has been delivered to Russians troops in the special military operation zone in Ukraine for evaluation, Sergey Urzhumtsev, chief designer of Russian defense giant Kalashnikov, revealed in an interview with TASS that was published on February 25.
The AK-12 is chambered in 5.45×39mm, features a barrel length of 415 mm , a maximum firing range of 800 m, and a standard magazine capacity of 30 rounds. It features a Picatinny rail on the top of the receiver for mounting various optical sights and on the top, bottom and sides of the handguard to mount various accessories.
According to Urzhumtsev, the two-shot cut-off mode was excluded from the modified AK-12 batch because it complicated the design without improving efficiency of the rifle. Other changes are related to the convenience and simplification of the operation of the weapon.
Klashinkov produces several variants of the AK-12, like the short-barrelled AK-12K, the AK-15, which is chambered in 7.62×39mm, the short-barrelled AK-15K, the AK-19 that is chambered in in 5.56×45mm NATO and the AK-308 that is chambered in 7.62×51mm NATO (.308 Winchester).
The AK-12 was developed by Klashinkov under the “Ratnik” infantry combat system program. The assault rifle entered service with the Russian military in 2018.
The ongoing special military operation in Ukraine has provided the Russian military with the opportunity to test and develop many weapon systems, from assault rifles to precision-guided missiles.
Hearing Ukrainian just destroyed this damn(below) to flood the area they just pulled out of.
There is another damn (below)on the south side, wonder if they plan on doing the same.
Ya… fuck up the country some more… why exactly? Greed you say.
Burn down the house to kill the snake?
There is another damn (below)on the south side, wonder if they plan on doing the same.
Ya… fuck up the country some more… why exactly? Greed you say.
Burn down the house to kill the snake?
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