After reading a post on the offerings for a tactical rifle to be built I noticed they had .260 and the 6.5 CM but no 6.5x47. That got me thinking that just a couple of years ago this seemed like a pretty hot round. I’ve heard people complain about the high cost of loosing the brass during matches and the higher pressure the 6.5x47 operates at. I know that the 6.5x47 needs to operate at higher pressures to equal the 6.5 CM and .260 velocities. But if it was designed to do so, and the brass can handle it I don’t see the big deal? (I however don’t compete in tactical matches.) Will the 6.5x47 over heat faster causing reliability issues? Or is it strictly the cost of loosing the brass?
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Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
I guess if one was recoil sensitive and the girlfriend/wife that ran their life insisted on shooting their tactical rifle then the 6.5X47 would be the way to go.
Other than that there are a hell of allot more reasonable/useful cartridges about.
I guess if one was recoil sensitive and the girlfriend/wife that ran their life insisted on shooting their tactical rifle then the 6.5X47 would be the way to go.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
We still use it....I don't worry to much about the brass. I think that alot of people overlook the overall scheme of things. Figure out the price of a custom rifle w/ a top end scope. A few pieces of brass lost isn't a big deal in the scheme of things for me. Even at that, in the last match...an across the course, mountain terrain, steel match, we only lost 4pcs of brass between the 2 of us. And we fired 168 rounds. We probably could have found the brass, but we weren't to worried about it.
Hard to beat a .620bc bullet at 3000fps. It takes quite a bit to heat up the barrels...rapid fire 5 round strings just get it warm. Takes a few mags to get to the "hot" stage.
We still use it....I don't worry to much about the brass. I think that alot of people overlook the overall scheme of things. Figure out the price of a custom rifle w/ a top end scope. A few pieces of brass lost isn't a big deal in the scheme of things for me. Even at that, in the last match...an across the course, mountain terrain, steel match, we only lost 4pcs of brass between the 2 of us. And we fired 168 rounds. We probably could have found the brass, but we weren't to worried about it.
Hard to beat a .620bc bullet at 3000fps. It takes quite a bit to heat up the barrels...rapid fire 5 round strings just get it warm. Takes a few mags to get to the "hot" stage.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
What 6.5 bullet has a BC of .620 and can be moved at 3000 with a 6.5X47? With the shorter barrels they are running up on Fancher.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Frikin Laffin...</span>
What 6.5 bullet has a BC of .620 and can be moved at 3000 with a 6.5X47? With the shorter barrels they are running up on Fancher.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
In the last tactical/ long range precision rifle match I shot in, the 6.5x47L or it's sibling, the 6-6.5x47L was used by 9 of the top 11 shooters, Oops, top shooter shot a 243AI, missed that one JLR! The only exception was the 3rd place shooter and he was using a 243. There were 39 shooters total but I didn't see an equipment list for all of them. I do know there were several others back in the pack using them as well.
7mmAM and his brother won that match. Shots were from 175 yards to 1188 yards. Several of us got first round hits at the 1188.
So the 6.5x47L can and will hold it's own.
As 7mmAM stated, the brass cost really doesn't enter into the equation if the cartridge does what you want it to do. The 6.5x47L runs with the CM and the 260 for speed and in the 2- 6.5x47L rifles I have in the safe,it is extremely accurate. The overall length of a loaded round lets you chase the lands and still feed from a standard 308 length mag. The neck is the right length to allow bullets in the 130-142 range to be seated with the start of the boat tail still in the neck.
In the last tactical/ long range precision rifle match I shot in, the 6.5x47L or it's sibling, the 6-6.5x47L was used by 9 of the top 11 shooters, Oops, top shooter shot a 243AI, missed that one JLR! The only exception was the 3rd place shooter and he was using a 243. There were 39 shooters total but I didn't see an equipment list for all of them. I do know there were several others back in the pack using them as well.
7mmAM and his brother won that match. Shots were from 175 yards to 1188 yards. Several of us got first round hits at the 1188.
So the 6.5x47L can and will hold it's own.
As 7mmAM stated, the brass cost really doesn't enter into the equation if the cartridge does what you want it to do. The 6.5x47L runs with the CM and the 260 for speed and in the 2- 6.5x47L rifles I have in the safe,it is extremely accurate. The overall length of a loaded round lets you chase the lands and still feed from a standard 308 length mag. The neck is the right length to allow bullets in the 130-142 range to be seated with the start of the boat tail still in the neck.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
The 6.5x47 would be/is a great match round. I shoot a 260, and the 6.5x47 will run just about even with it. If anything, you may get better brass by using the 6.5x47 (over Rem brass). I lose a few pieces of brass, but not many. (that is when Boltripper's not behind me!)
The 6.5x47 would be/is a great match round. I shoot a 260, and the 6.5x47 will run just about even with it. If anything, you may get better brass by using the 6.5x47 (over Rem brass). I lose a few pieces of brass, but not many. (that is when Boltripper's not behind me!)
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What 6.5 bullet has a BC of .620 and can be moved at 3000 with a 6.5X47? With the shorter barrels they are running up on Fancher.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Frikin Laffin...</span> </div></div>
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What 6.5 bullet has a BC of .620 and can be moved at 3000 with a 6.5X47? With the shorter barrels they are running up on Fancher.
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
Yes, I tested the 130 Berger VLD in my 260 with 3 powders, and got 3020, 2990, and 3008 fps with a mild load and great accuarcy. It runs pretty close to my 140 VLD in drop, but with a touch more wind drift. I'll stick with the 140's for now. 3K with a 130 in the 6.5x47 or 260 is very doable.
Yes, I tested the 130 Berger VLD in my 260 with 3 powders, and got 3020, 2990, and 3008 fps with a mild load and great accuarcy. It runs pretty close to my 140 VLD in drop, but with a touch more wind drift. I'll stick with the 140's for now. 3K with a 130 in the 6.5x47 or 260 is very doable.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim the Plumber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the last tactical/ long range precision rifle match I shot in, the 6.5x47L or it's sibling, the 6-6.5x47L was used by 9 of the top 11 shooters, Oops, top shooter shot a 243AI, missed that one JLR! The only exception was the 3rd place shooter and he was using a 243. There were 39 shooters total but I didn't see an equipment list for all of them. I do know there were several others back in the pack using them as well.
7mmAM and his brother won that match. Shots were from 175 yards to 1188 yards. Several of us got first round hits at the 1188.
So the 6.5x47L can and will hold it's own.
As 7mmAM stated, the brass cost really doesn't enter into the equation if the cartridge does what you want it to do. The 6.5x47L runs with the CM and the 260 for speed and in the 2- 6.5x47L rifles I have in the safe,it is extremely accurate. The overall length of a loaded round lets you chase the lands and still feed from a standard 308 length mag. The neck is the right length to allow bullets in the 130-142 range to be seated with the start of the boat tail still in the neck.
</div></div>
Nope JTP...you had it correct. JLR did use my 6x47 for that match. I used the 243AI.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim the Plumber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the last tactical/ long range precision rifle match I shot in, the 6.5x47L or it's sibling, the 6-6.5x47L was used by 9 of the top 11 shooters, Oops, top shooter shot a 243AI, missed that one JLR! The only exception was the 3rd place shooter and he was using a 243. There were 39 shooters total but I didn't see an equipment list for all of them. I do know there were several others back in the pack using them as well.
7mmAM and his brother won that match. Shots were from 175 yards to 1188 yards. Several of us got first round hits at the 1188.
So the 6.5x47L can and will hold it's own.
As 7mmAM stated, the brass cost really doesn't enter into the equation if the cartridge does what you want it to do. The 6.5x47L runs with the CM and the 260 for speed and in the 2- 6.5x47L rifles I have in the safe,it is extremely accurate. The overall length of a loaded round lets you chase the lands and still feed from a standard 308 length mag. The neck is the right length to allow bullets in the 130-142 range to be seated with the start of the boat tail still in the neck.
</div></div>
Nope JTP...you had it correct. JLR did use my 6x47 for that match. I used the 243AI.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess if one was recoil sensitive and the girlfriend/wife that ran their life insisted on shooting their tactical rifle then the 6.5X47 would be the way to go.
Other than that there are a hell of allot more reasonable/useful cartridges about. </div></div>
I don't consider most of the chamberings that show up in the winner's circles to be really hard kickers, and the ones that are usually have brakes on them. I personally like the 6.5 x 47L, though I don't think it will do anything other offerings can't. Of course, I am probably just recoil sensitive, 'cause if I opted for something else it would probably be a hard-kicking 6XC or a .243W.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess if one was recoil sensitive and the girlfriend/wife that ran their life insisted on shooting their tactical rifle then the 6.5X47 would be the way to go.
I don't consider most of the chamberings that show up in the winner's circles to be really hard kickers, and the ones that are usually have brakes on them. I personally like the 6.5 x 47L, though I don't think it will do anything other offerings can't. Of course, I am probably just recoil sensitive, 'cause if I opted for something else it would probably be a hard-kicking 6XC or a .243W.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
</div></div>
Really? Are you confident they have a higher BC than the 130 grain Berger equivalent?
I'm a little gun-shy after seeing Berger drop all their BCs. I figured everyone else was still overstating their numbers, or at least using <span style="font-style: italic">theoretical</span> values.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
</div></div>
Really? Are you confident they have a higher BC than the 130 grain Berger equivalent?
I'm a little gun-shy after seeing Berger drop all their BCs. I figured everyone else was still overstating their numbers, or at least using <span style="font-style: italic">theoretical</span> values.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
</div></div>
Really? Are you confident they have a higher BC than the 130 grain Berger equivalent?
I'm a little gun-shy after seeing Berger drop all their BCs. I figured everyone else was still overstating their numbers, or at least using <span style="font-style: italic">theoretical</span> values.</div></div>
My thoughts exactly.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
</div></div>
Really? Are you confident they have a higher BC than the 130 grain Berger equivalent?
I'm a little gun-shy after seeing Berger drop all their BCs. I figured everyone else was still overstating their numbers, or at least using <span style="font-style: italic">theoretical</span> values.</div></div>
My thoughts exactly.......
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
I have in my notes that the 130 gr JLK BC was estimated by the new Berger guy (sorry forgot his name) to be .573 +/- 5%. The 140 gr JLK was estimated at .617 +/- 5%. I forgot where I found the source.
I have in my notes that the 130 gr JLK BC was estimated by the new Berger guy (sorry forgot his name) to be .573 +/- 5%. The 140 gr JLK was estimated at .617 +/- 5%. I forgot where I found the source.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
My 6.5x47L makes me happy all the time; from 123 smk and scenar, 130 bergers, Cauteruccio - getting close to 1,000 rds, coupla matches etc and it always shoots good. Matchking's load is excellent in my gun as well.
Caveat: Loads developed at higher altitudes will be high pressure loads here in the low country. That was my experience. Blow primer issues may be solved with CCI #41 primers.
My 6.5x47L makes me happy all the time; from 123 smk and scenar, 130 bergers, Cauteruccio - getting close to 1,000 rds, coupla matches etc and it always shoots good. Matchking's load is excellent in my gun as well.
Caveat: Loads developed at higher altitudes will be high pressure loads here in the low country. That was my experience. Blow primer issues may be solved with CCI #41 primers.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sisu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have in my notes that the 130 gr JLK BC was estimated by the new Berger guy (sorry forgot his name) to be .573 +/- 5%. The 140 gr JLK was estimated at .617 +/- 5%. I forgot where I found the source. </div></div>
That makes allot more sense, .620 for a 6.5 130gr bullet is a stretch.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sisu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have in my notes that the 130 gr JLK BC was estimated by the new Berger guy (sorry forgot his name) to be .573 +/- 5%. The 140 gr JLK was estimated at .617 +/- 5%. I forgot where I found the source. </div></div>
That makes allot more sense, .620 for a 6.5 130gr bullet is a stretch.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
Travis (7mmAM) doesn't win most the comps he enters by guessing, I'd be willing to bet he's confirmed those BC's in the field.
He builds a hell of a rifle and then shoots them even better.
Travis (7mmAM) doesn't win most the comps he enters by guessing, I'd be willing to bet he's confirmed those BC's in the field.
He builds a hell of a rifle and then shoots them even better.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
</div></div>
Really? Are you confident they have a higher BC than the 130 grain Berger equivalent?
I'm a little gun-shy after seeing Berger drop all their BCs. I figured everyone else was still overstating their numbers, or at least using <span style="font-style: italic">theoretical</span> values. </div></div>
Yep, very confident in those numbers. We ran them over chronographs at 300, 600, and 800 yds, and on targets out to 1500. The BC was right at the .620 mark over all the tests in our rifles. The bergers on the other hand...their old BC worked pretty well out to around 800, and the new BC works out to 1500. We have been running the new BC and just tweaking out drop charts for the closer ranges. They have a different shape to them than the Bergers. If you haven't seem them, its hard to make an assumption. Although, if nobody believes the BC, then it won't take so long to get my bullets from them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its pretty easy....A 130 JLK has a .620 BC. We have tested them out to 1500yds and have found their BC to be spot on. H4350, CCI450's, and a 26" Rock barrel, has no problem getting to 3000fps. Some of them run a little faster. With Ramshot hunter you can get to 3100, but it is to temp sensitive.
</div></div>
Really? Are you confident they have a higher BC than the 130 grain Berger equivalent?
I'm a little gun-shy after seeing Berger drop all their BCs. I figured everyone else was still overstating their numbers, or at least using <span style="font-style: italic">theoretical</span> values. </div></div>
Yep, very confident in those numbers. We ran them over chronographs at 300, 600, and 800 yds, and on targets out to 1500. The BC was right at the .620 mark over all the tests in our rifles. The bergers on the other hand...their old BC worked pretty well out to around 800, and the new BC works out to 1500. We have been running the new BC and just tweaking out drop charts for the closer ranges. They have a different shape to them than the Bergers. If you haven't seem them, its hard to make an assumption. Although, if nobody believes the BC, then it won't take so long to get my bullets from them.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
I will note though, that I am assuming that the 3 chronographs that I own are correct with my velocity. This is how we have confirmed the BC. If my velocity is higher than the Ohler, and 2 CED's show, then the BC would be lower. I am guessing though, that since my chrono's show within 15fps of each other, that they are pretty damn close.
I will note though, that I am assuming that the 3 chronographs that I own are correct with my velocity. This is how we have confirmed the BC. If my velocity is higher than the Ohler, and 2 CED's show, then the BC would be lower. I am guessing though, that since my chrono's show within 15fps of each other, that they are pretty damn close.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will note though, that I am <span style="color: #FF0000">assuming</span> that the 3 chronographs that I own are correct with my velocity. This is how we have confirmed the BC. If my velocity is higher than the Ohler, and 2 CED's show, then the BC would be lower. I am guessing though, that since my chrono's show within 15fps of each other, that they are pretty damn close.</div></div>
You never know, stranger things have happened.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will note though, that I am <span style="color: #FF0000">assuming</span> that the 3 chronographs that I own are correct with my velocity. This is how we have confirmed the BC. If my velocity is higher than the Ohler, and 2 CED's show, then the BC would be lower. I am guessing though, that since my chrono's show within 15fps of each other, that they are pretty damn close.</div></div>
You never know, stranger things have happened.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You never know, stranger things have happened.
</div></div>
Like you admitting that 7mmAM might just know what he's talking about?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You never know, stranger things have happened.
Like you admitting that 7mmAM might just know what he's talking about?
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You never know, stranger things have happened.
</div></div>
Like you admitting that 7mmAM might just know what he's talking about?
</div></div>
You part of the 7mmAM clan Jason?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You never know, stranger things have happened.
Like you admitting that 7mmAM might just know what he's talking about?
You part of the 7mmAM clan Jason?
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
i don't know about this clan that is being mentioned, but Smack, you are starting to sound like you're a bit off your rocker.
how can you argue about stated BC's when he presented you with facts?
anyway, just reading this because I've very interested in building a 6.5x47, and have read nothing but good about them, so thanks for sharing your findings here.
i don't know about this clan that is being mentioned, but Smack, you are starting to sound like you're a bit off your rocker.
how can you argue about stated BC's when he presented you with facts?
anyway, just reading this because I've very interested in building a 6.5x47, and have read nothing but good about them, so thanks for sharing your findings here.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lovdasnow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i don't know about this clan that is being mentioned, but Smack, you are starting to sound like you're a bit off your rocker.
how can you argue about stated BC's when he presented you with facts?
anyway, just reading this because I've very interested in building a 6.5x47, and have read nothing but good about them, so thanks for sharing your findings here. </div></div>
Then build one and use your 13th post finding information instead of running your yap.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lovdasnow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i don't know about this clan that is being mentioned, but Smack, you are starting to sound like you're a bit off your rocker.
how can you argue about stated BC's when he presented you with facts?
anyway, just reading this because I've very interested in building a 6.5x47, and have read nothing but good about them, so thanks for sharing your findings here. </div></div>
Then build one and use your 13th post finding information instead of running your yap.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You never know, stranger things have happened.
</div></div>
Like you admitting that 7mmAM might just know what he's talking about?
</div></div>
You part of the 7mmAM clan Jason?
</div></div>
No, I just know Travis and have shot with him at matches.....Matches he has WON. Doesn't make me part of a clan, just a guy who has seen the results of Travis's tests.
How many other members here have verified published vs. actually BC's using 3 different chronos out to 800 yards and shooting targets at 1500?
Honestly, I simply think that you're just being a dick and can't wrap your head around something that you haven't done personally so it must be wrong!! Instead of acknowledging facts you choose to highlight words, insert smiley emoticons and use stupid phrases like "Frikin Laffin" because spelling shit cleverly obviously makes you internet cool and your points more valid.
While we're on the subject of you being a dick, lovdasnow may only have 12 posts, but he's been here since 2006. Does a low post count make him less knowledgeable? Does a high one make you a genius? If so, then step off because I'm a fucking internet shooting hero.
"Frikin Laffin"
Fuck I'm clever......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You never know, stranger things have happened.
Like you admitting that 7mmAM might just know what he's talking about?
You part of the 7mmAM clan Jason?
No, I just know Travis and have shot with him at matches.....Matches he has WON. Doesn't make me part of a clan, just a guy who has seen the results of Travis's tests.
How many other members here have verified published vs. actually BC's using 3 different chronos out to 800 yards and shooting targets at 1500?
Honestly, I simply think that you're just being a dick and can't wrap your head around something that you haven't done personally so it must be wrong!! Instead of acknowledging facts you choose to highlight words, insert smiley emoticons and use stupid phrases like "Frikin Laffin" because spelling shit cleverly obviously makes you internet cool and your points more valid.
While we're on the subject of you being a dick, lovdasnow may only have 12 posts, but he's been here since 2006. Does a low post count make him less knowledgeable? Does a high one make you a genius? If so, then step off because I'm a fucking internet shooting hero.
"Frikin Laffin"
Fuck I'm clever......
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
I don't have the juevos to put a chrono out to 600 or 800 for fear of hitting it!!! Maybe with steel in front ot if, I guess.
I don't have the juevos to put a chrono out to 600 or 800 for fear of hitting it!!! Maybe with steel in front ot if, I guess.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
Miss the Prozac this morning Jason? Had a Exgirlfriend that rambled on like that.
Miss the Prozac this morning Jason? Had a Exgirlfriend that rambled on like that.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Miss the Prozac this morning Jason? Had a Exgirlfriend that rambled on like that.
</div></div>
Still all ass.....and no facts. Waiting for something besides dumb ass comments to prove Travis is making up BC's. I mean he has so much to gain by using the wrong BC's and spreading misinformation that it only makes sense that he's got to be wrong.
Thank the Lord you've helped us all see the light.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Miss the Prozac this morning Jason? Had a Exgirlfriend that rambled on like that.
</div></div>
Still all ass.....and no facts. Waiting for something besides dumb ass comments to prove Travis is making up BC's. I mean he has so much to gain by using the wrong BC's and spreading misinformation that it only makes sense that he's got to be wrong.
Thank the Lord you've helped us all see the light.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
Well Jason, I'm glad that Travis is the all knowing in your eyes. I'm glad you base your opinions on one's opinions. In the REAL WORLD every bullet manufacturer on the planet has inflated their BC's at one time or another and this has been proven time and time again. So until I build a POS 6.5x47 which isn't going to happen I guess I will just bank on my opinion, experience and general knowledge of the real world and knowing when to call bullshit. I didn't offend you by calling the 6.5x47 a piece of shit die I? We are still allowed to have a opinion other than yours aren't we?
Keep running your SUCK....
Well Jason, I'm glad that Travis is the all knowing in your eyes. I'm glad you base your opinions on one's opinions. In the REAL WORLD every bullet manufacturer on the planet has inflated their BC's at one time or another and this has been proven time and time again. So until I build a POS 6.5x47 which isn't going to happen I guess I will just bank on my opinion, experience and general knowledge of the real world and knowing when to call bullshit. I didn't offend you by calling the 6.5x47 a piece of shit die I? We are still allowed to have a opinion other than yours aren't we?
Keep running your SUCK....
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
You proved my point for me, thank you.
You don't own a 6.5x47? So all the shit you spewed about what it's not capable of is just either BS you made up or have an "opinion" of without any real world testing?
PERFECT....then you MUST be right!!
Still "Frikin Laffin" It's classic.
You proved my point for me, thank you.
You don't own a 6.5x47? So all the shit you spewed about what it's not capable of is just either BS you made up or have an "opinion" of without any real world testing?
PERFECT....then you MUST be right!!
Still "Frikin Laffin" It's classic.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
You are a complete moron Jason, you have way to much time on your hands.
We will take the cute out of it.....
<span style="color: #FF0000">FUCKING LAUGHING..</span>
Think about it this way, if you keep running your suck at the rate you have been. You will have 7000 posts in no time and you still don't know <span style="color: #CC0000">SHIT!</span>
You are a complete moron Jason, you have way to much time on your hands.
We will take the cute out of it.....
<span style="color: #FF0000">FUCKING LAUGHING..</span>
Think about it this way, if you keep running your suck at the rate you have been. You will have 7000 posts in no time and you still don't know <span style="color: #CC0000">SHIT!</span>
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
I'm curious, SMACK, being so sure of your argument against 6,5mm bullets - why can't you share your evidence with us? Specifically, why wouldn't a 6,5mm bullet have a high BC? And high/low compared to what?
Indeed virtually every bullet manufacturarer has inflated their BC data. Or probably more correctly, they've listed the highest value their bullet can achieve. But then show us one who list all BC values during the entire flight. No one does that...
I'm curious, SMACK, being so sure of your argument against 6,5mm bullets - why can't you share your evidence with us? Specifically, why wouldn't a 6,5mm bullet have a high BC? And high/low compared to what?
Indeed virtually every bullet manufacturarer has inflated their BC data. Or probably more correctly, they've listed the highest value their bullet can achieve. But then show us one who list all BC values during the entire flight. No one does that...
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
I'll have to work on calling people names, emoticons, colored words and clever pictures. Apparently simple facts and believing those that have actually used the 6.5x47 is the path of foolishness.
My simple nature just makes me the laughing stock of this place.
The complete moron,
Jasonk
I'll have to work on calling people names, emoticons, colored words and clever pictures. Apparently simple facts and believing those that have actually used the 6.5x47 is the path of foolishness.
My simple nature just makes me the laughing stock of this place.
The complete moron,
Jasonk
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
Another <span style="color: #FF99FF">PUSSY</span> pulling the big ignore string.
Another <span style="color: #FF99FF">PUSSY</span> pulling the big ignore string.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> We are still allowed to have a opinion other than yours aren't we?</div></div>
So after reading all this bickering, I've yet to see you post up any useful information backing your claims. I'll type the following slowly...maybe it'll make it easier for you to follow.
*What are these cartridges that you speak of that are "a hell of allot more reasonable/useful"?
*What has been YOUR experience with the claimed BC of the 130JLK?
*Given the potential error in chronos and the type of testing I've done, the BC could be .600-.620...Still pretty hard to beat this combination. Perhaps if you spent a little more time in the field or on the range you might be able to provide some useful information to this and other sites rather than just attack a cartridge due to you having some personal problem with some of the people that shoot it.
I realize that was probably a lot of reading for you so let me summarize...Either post up something useful, or keep your mouth shut....pretty simple concept. There's no reason for you to come on here and personally attack people.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> We are still allowed to have a opinion other than yours aren't we?</div></div>
So after reading all this bickering, I've yet to see you post up any useful information backing your claims. I'll type the following slowly...maybe it'll make it easier for you to follow.
*What are these cartridges that you speak of that are "a hell of allot more reasonable/useful"?
*What has been YOUR experience with the claimed BC of the 130JLK?
*Given the potential error in chronos and the type of testing I've done, the BC could be .600-.620...Still pretty hard to beat this combination. Perhaps if you spent a little more time in the field or on the range you might be able to provide some useful information to this and other sites rather than just attack a cartridge due to you having some personal problem with some of the people that shoot it.
I realize that was probably a lot of reading for you so let me summarize...Either post up something useful, or keep your mouth shut....pretty simple concept. There's no reason for you to come on here and personally attack people.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post</div></div>
I know whatever you said is truely informative, and is the answer to all questions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post</div></div>
I know whatever you said is truely informative, and is the answer to all questions.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
JLR, I rate you with that of Jim the plumber. Any question as to how that is??? You can just ask him due to the fact you see him every day. By the way who's wearing the "Paper hat" and following who around? The "Clan" aught to jump in at any time. Oh yea, this should be a real shit wreck......
JLR, I rate you with that of Jim the plumber. Any question as to how that is??? You can just ask him due to the fact you see him every day. By the way who's wearing the "Paper hat" and following who around? The "Clan" aught to jump in at any time. Oh yea, this should be a real shit wreck......
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
Smack, your feeble attempt to participate in any intelligent conversation only goes to exaggerate your already pathetic lack of mental ability. Try this one, present us with useful FACTS that what you are saying is true about the 6.5x47 or get off this posting. Use some common sense man...
Smack, your feeble attempt to participate in any intelligent conversation only goes to exaggerate your already pathetic lack of mental ability. Try this one, present us with useful FACTS that what you are saying is true about the 6.5x47 or get off this posting. Use some common sense man...
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RATOUTAHELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smack, your feeble attempt to participate in any intelligent conversation only goes to exaggerate your already pathetic lack of mental ability. Try this one, present us with useful FACTS that what you are saying is true about the 6.5x47 or get off this posting. Use some common sense man...
</div></div>
+1
Put up or shut up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RATOUTAHELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smack, your feeble attempt to participate in any intelligent conversation only goes to exaggerate your already pathetic lack of mental ability. Try this one, present us with useful FACTS that what you are saying is true about the 6.5x47 or get off this posting. Use some common sense man...
</div></div>
+1
Put up or shut up.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
Why bother with facts when insults and bitterness can rule the day!!
Why bother with facts when insults and bitterness can rule the day!!
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
.......i just got here..................was picking up after all the 6.5 shooters in the winners circle.....man thats nice brass!!, not much of it though
ok now for the popcorn................
.......i just got here..................was picking up after all the 6.5 shooters in the winners circle.....man thats nice brass!!, not much of it though
ok now for the popcorn................
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical com
SMACK's Quote:
I guess if one was recoil sensitive and the girlfriend/wife that ran their life insisted on shooting their tactical rifle then the 6.5X47 would be the way to go. eek Other than that there are a hell of allot more reasonable/useful cartridges about.
That's just a ridiculous statement!
Why do you have to come off like this,Smack!
6.5x47Lapua,260rem and 6.5Creed are some of the best cartridges overall,ever created.A good balance of BC,ballistics and energy.I guess shooting cartridges that have light recoil aren't macho enough for you,huh.Please post a video for us to see of you shooting a 20lb 50BMG without a muzzle brake on repeatedly.So we can see how macho you are.
JasonK is a stand up dude and a valued contributor on this site.I'd take his advice over most folks any day.I'm sure allot of people don't see any appreciation for you're insults on this post.
Don't forget that BC's are derived from certain velocity ranges.JLK's are not Bergers and a 130grainer moving along at over 3000fps would give a higher BC value.
Steve
SMACK's Quote:
I guess if one was recoil sensitive and the girlfriend/wife that ran their life insisted on shooting their tactical rifle then the 6.5X47 would be the way to go. eek Other than that there are a hell of allot more reasonable/useful cartridges about.
That's just a ridiculous statement!
Why do you have to come off like this,Smack!
6.5x47Lapua,260rem and 6.5Creed are some of the best cartridges overall,ever created.A good balance of BC,ballistics and energy.I guess shooting cartridges that have light recoil aren't macho enough for you,huh.Please post a video for us to see of you shooting a 20lb 50BMG without a muzzle brake on repeatedly.So we can see how macho you are.
JasonK is a stand up dude and a valued contributor on this site.I'd take his advice over most folks any day.I'm sure allot of people don't see any appreciation for you're insults on this post.
Don't forget that BC's are derived from certain velocity ranges.JLK's are not Bergers and a 130grainer moving along at over 3000fps would give a higher BC value.
Steve
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post</div></div>
I know whatever you said is truely informative, and is the answer to all questions.</div></div>
Chad appears to be the smartest participant in this thread. And he isn't "recoil sensitive" to boot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post</div></div>
I know whatever you said is truely informative, and is the answer to all questions.</div></div>
Chad appears to be the smartest participant in this thread. And he isn't "recoil sensitive" to boot.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
Gents
I looked at this thread as I'm waiting on 6.5x47L specificaly built for Tac matches.
Re. the bickering - it is not contirbuting anything that I can see to this thread, lets keep it civil, there's enough runnish going on around us without brining it here.
Smack,
Cannot fathom where you're coming from on a few of your comments. The recoil thing's got me stumped! If a particular cartridge will get the job done why not use it. Not using somthing because it is not 'macho' enough is a bit limiting don't you think? If a probationary shooter here in the UK made this sort of staement I'd be reluctant to sign him off for his FAC.
As to the calibre itself, 6.5's seem to have done well for a good few years, the 6.5 Swede Mauser's been at it for what 120 years? It was out well before the '06 and if you've ever shot the <span style="font-style: italic">rifles of that era </span>side by side you'd not pick the '06. As to current 6.5's, well, Mr Cross does not seem to bothered winning with his (and not worried about building his 'stock' rifles in a couple of 6.5 cartridges).
These comments will no doubt prompt a 'spittle riddled diatribe' but I'm all for conversations
but you might want to consider this befor hiting the keyboard:
<span style="font-style: italic">Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. </span> (Winston Churchill)
English
Gents
I looked at this thread as I'm waiting on 6.5x47L specificaly built for Tac matches.
Re. the bickering - it is not contirbuting anything that I can see to this thread, lets keep it civil, there's enough runnish going on around us without brining it here.
Smack,
Cannot fathom where you're coming from on a few of your comments. The recoil thing's got me stumped! If a particular cartridge will get the job done why not use it. Not using somthing because it is not 'macho' enough is a bit limiting don't you think? If a probationary shooter here in the UK made this sort of staement I'd be reluctant to sign him off for his FAC.
As to the calibre itself, 6.5's seem to have done well for a good few years, the 6.5 Swede Mauser's been at it for what 120 years? It was out well before the '06 and if you've ever shot the <span style="font-style: italic">rifles of that era </span>side by side you'd not pick the '06. As to current 6.5's, well, Mr Cross does not seem to bothered winning with his (and not worried about building his 'stock' rifles in a couple of 6.5 cartridges).
These comments will no doubt prompt a 'spittle riddled diatribe' but I'm all for conversations
<span style="font-style: italic">Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. </span> (Winston Churchill)
English
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
English,
Not sure what components you have available on your side of the pond but this is the load that works in my daughter's rifle and in my rifle as well:
6.5x47 Lapua brass, 139 Lapua Scenar, CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer,43 grains Ramshot Hunter. Seat to touching the lands give about 2840 in Shayla's 26" Rock barrel and 2860 in my 25" Lilja barrel.
I have played just a bit with the 130 JLK's and am getting 3000 fps with Reloader 17, same brass and primers. I think you will be very happy with the 6.5x47L. An extremely forgiving round and easy on the barrels.
Front rifle is a6.5x47L built by 7mmAM and JLR for my daughter, middle is my 6.5x47L. Back is my noise maker.
English,
Not sure what components you have available on your side of the pond but this is the load that works in my daughter's rifle and in my rifle as well:
6.5x47 Lapua brass, 139 Lapua Scenar, CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer,43 grains Ramshot Hunter. Seat to touching the lands give about 2840 in Shayla's 26" Rock barrel and 2860 in my 25" Lilja barrel.
I have played just a bit with the 130 JLK's and am getting 3000 fps with Reloader 17, same brass and primers. I think you will be very happy with the 6.5x47L. An extremely forgiving round and easy on the barrels.
Front rifle is a6.5x47L built by 7mmAM and JLR for my daughter, middle is my 6.5x47L. Back is my noise maker.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
AI makes AW in 6.5x47 now.
See http://www.sportingservices.co.uk/ in the UK for information
AI makes AW in 6.5x47 now.
See http://www.sportingservices.co.uk/ in the UK for information
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
Wow... Who needs TV when you have all this crud going on? Don't mind me... just passin through I guess. I'm also in the process of building a 6.5X47. AICS 2.0 stock,700rem action,26 inch pac-nor 1 in 8 tube. Like to run them 140 VLD's if I can. Just tryin to read as much "crud" on em as I can.
Wow... Who needs TV when you have all this crud going on? Don't mind me... just passin through I guess. I'm also in the process of building a 6.5X47. AICS 2.0 stock,700rem action,26 inch pac-nor 1 in 8 tube. Like to run them 140 VLD's if I can. Just tryin to read as much "crud" on em as I can.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
Jim,
Cheers for th info and photos - makes wating for my rifle even worse! Components are not too bad to come buy in the UK, bullets, brass powder etc. but primer selections a bit down at present. I've 5 tubs of R15, 400 prepped brass and 1000 123g Scanars sitting in my cellar waiting. I've loded some rounds up that are the same as the factory Lapuas for sighting in.
We can get hold of barrels, actions and stocks but the costs can be a bit steep. The main problem is there are no tactical competitons similar to the US matches in the UK the only thing close is run in the Czech republic which I've yet to make, so finding a smith that knows what's needed in a rifle is limited as compared to say talking with Terry Cross or George and his crew.
We did have a good historic sniper match called the McQueens but it has now been ruined by folks who 'have to win' so it is being shot with 6.5-284's and similar rather than sniper rifles.
English
Jim,
Cheers for th info and photos - makes wating for my rifle even worse! Components are not too bad to come buy in the UK, bullets, brass powder etc. but primer selections a bit down at present. I've 5 tubs of R15, 400 prepped brass and 1000 123g Scanars sitting in my cellar waiting. I've loded some rounds up that are the same as the factory Lapuas for sighting in.
We can get hold of barrels, actions and stocks but the costs can be a bit steep. The main problem is there are no tactical competitons similar to the US matches in the UK the only thing close is run in the Czech republic which I've yet to make, so finding a smith that knows what's needed in a rifle is limited as compared to say talking with Terry Cross or George and his crew.
We did have a good historic sniper match called the McQueens but it has now been ruined by folks who 'have to win' so it is being shot with 6.5-284's and similar rather than sniper rifles.
English
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
Hi English,
If you want any info on your forthcoming calibre, give me a bell at SYSS, i,m the gunsmith there, and have built into the dozen,s now, of tactical rifles in this calibre.
We have covered most bases in bullets, powders etc for this cartridge, and its rapidly eclipsing the old .308 as first choice for a tactical calibre.
My club at Diggle now runs two classes for mcqueens.One is open class, which covers the 6.5,s etc, and the other is military cartridges only, so the .308,s can compete in the extremely strong diggle winds.
I have just won the mcqueen,s at the phoenix meeting at Bisley, with my own 6.5 x47 lapua. I personally dont believe there is a better cartridge.
When you have yours up and running, if you fancy a day up at Diggle, shout up.
Hi English,
If you want any info on your forthcoming calibre, give me a bell at SYSS, i,m the gunsmith there, and have built into the dozen,s now, of tactical rifles in this calibre.
We have covered most bases in bullets, powders etc for this cartridge, and its rapidly eclipsing the old .308 as first choice for a tactical calibre.
My club at Diggle now runs two classes for mcqueens.One is open class, which covers the 6.5,s etc, and the other is military cartridges only, so the .308,s can compete in the extremely strong diggle winds.
I have just won the mcqueen,s at the phoenix meeting at Bisley, with my own 6.5 x47 lapua. I personally dont believe there is a better cartridge.
When you have yours up and running, if you fancy a day up at Diggle, shout up.
Re: Is the 6.5x47 still being used in tactical comps?
shooters,
Having vast experience with lots of 1000 yard cartridges that perform/win and impress me when I'm scoring tagets at TVP, the 6 and 6.5 cartridges work AWESOME. At 600 yards I've measured groups smaller than 1.5" on windy days.
I shoot the incredible .300 Hulk for most applications from 100 yards to 2000. It simply is HARD to beat and personally hasn't been. So why would I build a .260?
Well i just did and I'm loving it. 100 to 1000 yards was the ideal use for this rifle. I finished tuning it today and zero it at 100 yards. I will be shooting our Steel Course tomorrow and I will see what I can do with it. I'm far from recoil sensative but the .260 is such a PLEASURE to shoot. I put a brake on it although it doesn't need it but I have my reasons for doing so.
Anyone doubting a .260 6x47 or 6.5x47 has not a clue. We are building a 6x47 and a 6.5x47 for a couple of our shooters as well as another 260. I will have them post their results and experiences. I follow alot of threads and find myself amazed by all the folks who don't know squat about shooting let alone cartridge ability. They are stuck in their own back yard at 200 yards if that and think they know what works at long range. Come to some matches and show your stuff or give some respect to those who at least try to "help" others. Shooting sports are and will die out because of assholes. We have them here all the time at TVP. I started weeding them out this year and if I had my way would have done it a long time ago. Lets stick to the point of accuracy and facts as well as some ideas of how/why things work backed up either by experience or KNOWN FACTS. Then and only then will our forums and threads become more enjoyable to read.
Thanks,
Tom
shooters,
Having vast experience with lots of 1000 yard cartridges that perform/win and impress me when I'm scoring tagets at TVP, the 6 and 6.5 cartridges work AWESOME. At 600 yards I've measured groups smaller than 1.5" on windy days.
I shoot the incredible .300 Hulk for most applications from 100 yards to 2000. It simply is HARD to beat and personally hasn't been. So why would I build a .260?
Well i just did and I'm loving it. 100 to 1000 yards was the ideal use for this rifle. I finished tuning it today and zero it at 100 yards. I will be shooting our Steel Course tomorrow and I will see what I can do with it. I'm far from recoil sensative but the .260 is such a PLEASURE to shoot. I put a brake on it although it doesn't need it but I have my reasons for doing so.
Anyone doubting a .260 6x47 or 6.5x47 has not a clue. We are building a 6x47 and a 6.5x47 for a couple of our shooters as well as another 260. I will have them post their results and experiences. I follow alot of threads and find myself amazed by all the folks who don't know squat about shooting let alone cartridge ability. They are stuck in their own back yard at 200 yards if that and think they know what works at long range. Come to some matches and show your stuff or give some respect to those who at least try to "help" others. Shooting sports are and will die out because of assholes. We have them here all the time at TVP. I started weeding them out this year and if I had my way would have done it a long time ago. Lets stick to the point of accuracy and facts as well as some ideas of how/why things work backed up either by experience or KNOWN FACTS. Then and only then will our forums and threads become more enjoyable to read.
Thanks,
Tom
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