Rifle Scopes Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

[Garvey]

The Vortex Viper PST 6-24 x 50 includes matching reticle and turrets, zero stop, FFP, illuminated etched reticle, and 30mm tube constuction for $899.95 through SWFA.

A Night Force with all the same features will cost $1945.00
(That was just one price check through Midway. I know there are varying prices to be found from other dealers.)

Based on SH member's reviews it seems to me that the Vortex is a quality scope. It is also apparent that there are still Night Force scopes being sold every day.

My question is what is the additional $1045.05 going to get me for the money?

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Well I have to say that the thought has crossed my mind aswell in the past couple of months considering I have two viper pst's on order and the dates keep getting pushed back. I guess the simple answer is your getting better glass (and from SH members who have made the comparison it seems to be a pretty noticable difference) and proven reliability and ruggedness. Now is that worth the $1000 difference? I guess the answer is in what your financial situation is. I can't quite make that leap for the two scopes I have on order but I am giving some strong consideration to the IOR 3-18x42 FFP which roughly sells for under $1500. But for now I'm just in wait and see mode atleast to end of the August.

 

[hill billy]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Yes.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

you are comparing the PST to the F1. not a head to head.

Compare the Razor to the F1 for a apples to apples

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes. </div></div>

Can you elaborate?

I'll be going from a Burris 6-20X 50mm MIL reticle/ 1/4 MOA turrets to the Vortex or NF. The glass on the Burris is the best I've ever used, and has been very reliable in all of my shooting situations. So is the Vortex better glass than the Burris and the NF better than both?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

is it better?

how will you be using it?

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Okay, what does NF have that would compare to the PST? Is there a NF with the same features?

I did not mean to compare apples to oranges. I simply looked at the features of both scopes and thought I was comparing the two companies similar products.

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is it better?

how will you be using it? </div></div>

The scope will be mounted on my Savage 10 FLCP-K .308. I use that rifle as my "do-all" rifle. Target shooting to 1000 (eventually), whitetail hunting, hog hunting, and predator hunting. So this will most definately will see field time.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

will you be shooting comps?

you have to ask yourself why you want a FFP?

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Yes, I'm working on my loading and shooting skills and will eventually be entering competitions. I went to a clay shoot last weekend, and had a blast. It was more of a bench resters rifle match, but I had a great time anyway.

I believe the FFP will help in hunting situations as well as competition. Right now I have to check my power setting to verify it is on 14X with my Burris if I am going to do a hold shot. It seems that the FFP will be a valuable tool.

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

The PST are really nice for the price but the NF is a much nicer scope. It is not far to try to compare them. The PST is a great scope for the price.

Mike @ CST

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST are really nice for the price but the NF is a much nicer scope. It is not far to try to compare them. The PST is a great scope for the price.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Again, didn't know. I thought I was comparing Vortex's apples to Night Force's apples. I am trying to decide if I want to wait several months and save for the NF or buy the Vortex that I can afford right now, that would be a significant improvement over my Burris.

 

[steve123]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halligan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST are really nice for the price but the NF is a much nicer scope. It is not far to try to compare them. The PST is a great scope for the price.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Again, didn't know. I thought I was comparing Vortex's apples to Night Force's apples. I am trying to decide if I want to wait several months and save for the NF or buy the Vortex that I can afford right now, that would be a significant improvement over my Burris. </div></div>

The Viper PST's aren't to be had right now and it might not be for months till they are available again.They are to be considered a medium grade scope,thus the price.The Vortex Razor 5-20's closest competitor is the NF 3.5-15 F1.All the other NF scopes are SFP.

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Received,

3.5-15X would work fine for me, most of the time. But I do run into situations that I am thankful I have the higher magnification. I am planning on buying the RIGHT scope for this rifle and be done with it. So I am trying to make an informed decision and not upgrade again in the future.

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[cj1026]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

I don't know about the PST's, but I just bought a NF. My first high end scope.
I have to say it is the best scope I have ever used. Glass is awesome.
I have always bought Leupolds. Not any more. Is NF worth the extra money? Hell yes it is.

 

[USACS]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halligan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Again, didn't know. I thought I was comparing Vortex's apples to Night Force's apples. I am trying to decide if I want to wait several months and save for the NF or buy the Vortex that I can afford right now, that would be a significant improvement over my Burris.</div></div>
Keep in mind that the PSTs are on hold and not in distribution. The rumor is that pre-orders for the PSTs will be delayed until late fall or even winter. The wait will be longer if you haven't already made your order. Those months you wait will Have been the months you saved for the Nightforce NXS. Something to think about that may give you some more perspective.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

You could always consider the Bushnell tactical 6-24, the only thing missing is the zero stop.
Elite 4200 glass is VERY good.

I was considering a new scope for my work rifle.
I wanted FFP, I wanted at least 3-15x, I would have liked an illuminated reticle or top notch glass.

I was going to go with the Vortex 4-16 model, but the teething problems are a concern to me, they seem to have "decent" glass and I am sure very functional.
They just don't feel right to me at this time, what with the continuing delays and all, so I decided to go with an IOR 3-18 FFP scope. No illumination, but hopefully with the quality of glass it won't be an issue, no zero stop, but with 10 mils adjustment in 1 turn, it isn't necessary.
Scope should be here by Tuesday.
Costs more than the Vortex, less than the NF.
By the way, a NF in FFP seems to be over 2,000. Better check the specs of the scope you were looking at (I could very well be wrong)

 

[cttbax]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

1945 for a FFP nightforce is a pretty damn good price, I haven't seen a FFP NF below 2200 unless it was used...

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

This is a personal choice. I suggest you compare the two scopes in question. I decided that what I want in a scope is mechanical precision in the adjustments, glass good enough to perform the required task without eye fatigue in a package robust enough to take honest hard use. If these requirements are met anything above that level is gravy. How much do you want to spend on gravy? When you reach the mid priced level you often pay much more for less improvement. Most improvement comes by way of glass quality and ruggedness, IMO. I used to buy Leupold until I felt their cost exceeded their value. I had bad luck with Buris. Now I look at Super Sniper first, Vortex second and Nikon third. Weaver seems to be offering some good stuff these days, I two Weavers that are probably older than most people reading this page and they served my father well for forty years and are now on my rifles. When I'm having a bad day shooting it is usually me or the ammo. If the scope is properly mounted I don't have trouble in that area. If I were going in harm way and carrying a rifle on a daily basis I may reconsider my choice on one optic simply for better glass. Those days are far behind me. I prefer to spend money on ammo, components or a hunting trip. I can get a lot of shooting or a great Varmint hunt for the thousand dollar difference in price. But like I said, its a personal choice.

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could always consider the Bushnell tactical 6-24, the only thing missing is the zero stop.
Elite 4200 glass is VERY good.

I was considering a new scope for my work rifle.
I wanted FFP, I wanted at least 3-15x, I would have liked an illuminated reticle or top notch glass.

I was going to go with the Vortex 4-16 model, but the teething problems are a concern to me, they seem to have "decent" glass and I am sure very functional.
They just don't feel right to me at this time, what with the continuing delays and all, so I decided to go with an IOR 3-18 FFP scope. No illumination, but hopefully with the quality of glass it won't be an issue, no zero stop, but with 10 mils adjustment in 1 turn, it isn't necessary.
Scope should be here by Tuesday.
Costs more than the Vortex, less than the NF.
By the way, a NF in FFP seems to be over 2,000. Better check the specs of the scope you were looking at (I could very well be wrong) </div></div>

+1

I picked up a slightly used 4200 6-24 Tactical for $500. It makes the Millet TRS-1 look like a joke (rightfully so) and I/we couldn't for the life of me find the Leupold VX3 to be any better, even at dusk.

 

[coma]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

I was too very apprehensive about purchasing a NF. I've used lower end scopes, looked through a few leupies and without looking at a NF I said screw it!!!! I got one, and I can tell ya that it is the best scope I;ve ever looked through. It makes a difference when mirage is in effect, other scopes were very milky, not the NF solid and clear everywhere you look

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

I have looked through both scopes and I ended up getting a Vortex Razor - very sharp optics and a great reticle. In the end I got a Razor due to the percived customer service from Vortex. I talked to Sam at Vortex and he answered lots of my questions. So, if the comparison is a F1 and a Razor I think it is a toss up. If it is a PST and a Nightforce F1 I don't think that is a fair comparision I would take the Nightforce. I just don't think the comparision is fair. Once you get to the 2k range in Optics the differences are there but are more subtle. I have looked in a S&B and they are very super crystal clear but are more money.

 

[SAS_Sniper]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

NXS 3.5-15x50 is my scope,and is awesome...
Here you can find some info:
http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/TECHNOLOGY/technology.html

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

i like the razor for the money, but i don't put them in the same class as the nightforce.

 

[264Charlie]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halligan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Vortex Viper PST 6-24 x 50 includes matching reticle and turrets, zero stop, FFP, illuminated etched reticle, and 30mm tube constuction for $899.95 through SWFA.

A Night Force with all the same features will cost $1945.00
(That was just one price check through Midway. I know there are varying prices to be found from other dealers.)

Based on SH member's reviews it seems to me that the Vortex is a quality scope. It is also apparent that there are still Night Force scopes being sold every day.

My question is what is the additional $1045.05 going to get me for the money? </div></div>

Yes or Vortex would not build a Razor. You get what you pay for...

 

[jrob300]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halligan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems that the FFP will be a valuable tool. </div></div>

If you want an FFP scope, your choices are limited...

Let's say that the PST was the lowest quality you'd consider since you compared it to the NF.

The PST doesn't officially exist until somebody, somewhere is stocking them.

Next is the IOR 3-18 FFP. A couple different models, none with a stellar track record. <span style="font-weight: bold">$1550</span>.

Next up the food chain would be the Leupold (you said you'd like more than 15x?) Mark 4 M5 6.5-20x50. Horrible reputation for reliability and quality as delivered.<span style="font-weight: bold">$1699</span>

Next up, the new IOR 6-24 FFP. Unproven. <span style="font-weight: bold">$1850</span>

Next. The Vortex Razor. <span style="font-weight: bold">$2000</span> Some issues out of the gate, but a solid performer, and virtually indestructible.

Next? Nightforce F1 3-15. <span style="font-weight: bold">$2200</span>. Tremendous reputation, but there's that 15x thing and an extra $200 over the Razor.

You need to write down you prioities and then look at all of these scopes carefully, because FFP is not the only delimeter.

Is travel important to you?

Zero Stop?

Illumination?

You will probably find that there is really only one of these scopes that will make you happy. Time to start saving the pennies.

John

 

[madmathew]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

When I look up the NF F1 on Midway's sight the price is $2290, am I missing something?

 

[jrob300]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Nope. You're missing nothing. That's the <span style="font-weight: bold">FFP</span> version. The version that is less than $2000 is an orange.

John

 

[Bradley]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

I'd go with NF!

 

[Turk]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

First one would have to ask the question; is the Razor worth the $ over the Viper?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First one would have to ask the question; is the Razor worth the $ over the Viper? </div></div>

yes it is

 

[Chiller]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

if you know the internals of the razor and the f1 (I have owned both). some of the key components are coming from the same factory

 

[Turk]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First one would have to ask the question; is the Razor worth the $ over the Viper? </div></div>

yes it is </div></div>
Then the next question would be; are the NF and Razor in the same "class"?

 

[Toddcal13]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

How about a weaver tactical? I use a 4-20x ffp on one of my rifles. It isn't as good as my NF F1 3.5-15 but for $750 it works great. Clear glass durable... Not bad. I'm going to upgrade to a USO in a year but the weaver has worked well in its place.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then the next question would be; are the NF and Razor in the same "class"? </div></div>

Class is loosely defined.

The F1 is a 3-15 FFP scope. The Razor is a 5-20 scope. Very different magnification ranges, all else being close.

John

 

[dieseldr99]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

I was set on the pst. And I still will most likely end up with one. But I could not stand the wait any longer I had a rifle waiting on glass. I picked up a nightforce f1 mlr mil turret used and I love it. Would I have been just as happy with the pst who knows becuase I can't get my hands on one. I my opinion though I think the glass and the turrets are a lot better than the pst will be.
Ymmv
Justin

 

[USACS]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i like the razor for the money, but i don't put them in the same class as the nightforce. </div></div>
Why do you say this? What do you mean?
I'm in a RazorHD vs Nightforce quandary right now...any insight?

 

[jrob300]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i like the razor for the money, but i don't put them in the same class as the nightforce. </div></div>
Why do you say this? What do you mean?
I'm in a RazorHD vs Nightforce quandary right now...any insight? </div></div>

IF you're speaking FFP vs. FFP then:


The Razor has more magnification
The Razor has more total elevation
The Razor has a more usable reticle (for my tastes)
The NF has a more forgiving eyebox
The NF uses 30mm rings which are less expensive and more available
The NF is lighter and smaller

Both seem quite rugged. Both have had examples of failure.

For me the clinchers were: The additional magnification and elevation on the Razor (which are very attractive to me, as I'll shoot my rifle as far as the round will stay accurate) and lower cost, outweighed the lighter weight, more compact size and more available ring selection of the NF.

If NF had a higher magnification F1 AND it was still $2200, it would have been much more difficult, and will become so should they release it. But it will have to have the NP-R1 reticle to even consider it.

The Razor is huge and heavy. And it is relatively unproven, so there is some risk. But Vortex bends over backwards to serve it's customers (not that NF doesn't) so the risk is somewhat mitigated.

Those are my .02 on the subject...

John

 

[shooting4life]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

I have not used but really like the new ior 3-18 ffp that is comin out. It seemsto be a lot of product at a good price. Since it is new and has been redesigned might cause some concern. If I was going to buy something in the under 2k range I would really give it a long look and just make sure to buy from a distributor that bends over backwards for the customer (like liberty optics, cameraland, swfa amoung many other companies on the hide just not sure who carries ior). Then you have the ior warranty and the backing of a great company as well.

 

[Ando]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Buy the Razor from SWFA or another Hide vendor and use the 110% price match. That drops the Razor to $1800, a very respectable price for the package.

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Thanks for everyone's imput. You're right I need to prioritize what I am looking for in the next scope.

1. ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME: Turrets matching the reticle
2. Crisp, quality glass
3. 30mm tube to get more elevation travel, light transfer, and tube strength (am I right about the light transfer?)
4. FFP
5. Illuminated reticle (don't HAVE to have it, but I do use it predator hunting at night)
6. Company reputation, good customer service, good warranty

Tell me if I missed something.

After considering the fact that the Vortex won't be available for a while and the NF is more than I can afford right now. The Bushnell Elite 4200 is looking very promising. I don't think the warranty is as good as the NF and I can't find how much elevation travel it has though.

 

[shooting4life]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

30mm tune has nothing to do with light transfer. It will help with extra elevation though.

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

Received, thanks!

 

[sudnit5]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

The only problem I have with the Bushnell 4200 is the lack of travel it has. I believe it has only 13 MILs of travel.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

personally i like the glass in the vortex, i'm not a fan of the 35mm tube. it limits mounting options and makes for a huge scope. for hitting very fine targets i found cranking it up to 20x obscures part of my view of the target.

both are great scopes, but it depends on what your doing. out of the two, i tend to lean to the F1

 

[dmg308]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">personally i like the glass in the vortex, i'm not a fan of the 35mm tube. it limits mounting options and makes for a huge scope. for hitting very fine targets i found cranking it up to 20x obscures part of my view of the target.

both are great scopes, but it depends on what your doing. out of the two, i tend to lean to the F1 </div></div>

How does 20x obscure your target and lower mag does not? With an FFP the aspect ratio remains constant through the magnification range

 

[Garvey]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sudnit5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only problem I have with the Bushnell 4200 is the lack of travel it has. I believe it has only 13 MILs of travel. </div></div>

OK, and what how many MILs does <span style="text-decoration: underline">your</span> load need to reach 1000?

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm not a fan of the 35mm tube. it limits mounting options and makes for a huge scope. </div></div>
The bigger the tube - the more light is passing through, other conditions being equal.

As for 1mm extra of the tube diameter making "for a huge scope" - let me express my skepticism: looking at two scopes you'll probably be unable to tell which one is 34mm and which one is 35mm, especially if one of those has 50mm objective, and the other one - 56mm (or 72mm).

I find Vortex 35mm rings quite good. And I haven't even tried Seekins (that other people swear by). So no problem finding a good mounting solution.

Finally, I find eye relief a bit hard on the Vortex - but its reticle (EBR-2) <span style="text-decoration: underline">definitely</span> did not obscure my targets between 10x and 20x (so far tried max 960 yd).

 

[USACS]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

comparing glass to glass, how do the Nightforce and RazorHD compare? What is the RazorHD comparable to for resolution, clarity and light?

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: Is the $ for a NF worth spending vs. Vortex?

I went with NF F1 Mil/Mil....and couldn't b happier. One thing you will notice when you move up from lower quality to scopes to something of NF quality is that you will not need as much magnification as you used to think that you did ;^)