Is the Hornady 4 DOF's only use as a comedic tool?

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Maybe it's me, but this is the magic 8 ball of ballistic calculators. I really like the set up, but as for it's predictions... Well I might as well just guess.
Wish I knew what I was doing wrong.

 

[gnochi]

I’ve had similar experience with 4dof. Probably user error, but you’d think if I’m using Hornady off-the-shelf it’d be in the right ballpark without fiddling with anything.

 

[DocRDS]

It would probably help to be more descriptive as to what errors you are encountering.

Like my shots are too low at 600 and too high at 800.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I haven't kept a log of the errors. General it's simply that the adjustments in mils are wrong. Always optimistic. Not saying that's the only problem, but that's the key one.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Youre still not describing what is wrong about it. High, low, have you verified all of your input is correct, etc. I use 4dof with multiple different calibers and bullets with 0 errors.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

basically, you need all the required info on building the profile and a velocity. You true your drop to 500-600 by changing your velocity, then 800-1k by using the form factor funciton, assuming your bullet is in the library. Otherwise, you play with your BC at 800-1k to true/tune it. Its very simple but its one of those things where if you put bad info in, your correction will be wrong. Thats true for any calculator

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I will give that a try.
The velocities I put in are from my magnetospeed. I would think they would be fairly accurate.
Thanks for the help.

 

[DocRDS]

I will give that a try.
The velocities I put in are from my magnetospeed. I would think they would be fairly accurate.
Thanks for the help.

As I understand, velocity in a Ballistic Calculator is a tuning parameter not an input. What you are trying to do is match the prediction from the calculator to reality.

AS mentioned before (and by others much more skilled than me), you adjust the velocity to true your hits at 800 yards and in, and your BC/Form Factor for 800+. In other words if your hits are 2 mils low at 600, adjust the velocity so 4DOF gives you a solution that matches where you actually hit.

Your measured velocity from the Lab Radar is only a starting point, the real goal is to match 4DOF out to your hits.

 

[Lowlight]

It was really good,

I honestly think they "updated" out of usefulness

We were using it to great success in classes, then an update happened broke every track including my own and aligning it was even harder after ...

I think part of it is the barrel angle thing ... I have to agree something changed with it, and it's not the same anymore.

I went back to AB and now that the Garmin is out, using that, but I have the 4DOF Kestrel and it's basically been retired for the last 9 months at least. I did like it initially but they broke it

 

[DocRDS]

It was really good,

I honestly think they "updated" out of usefulness

We were using it to great success in classes, then an update happened broke every track including my own and aligning it was even harder after ...

I think part of it is the barrel angle thing ... I have to agree something changed with it, and it's not the same anymore.

I went back to AB and now that the Garmin is out, using that, but I have the 4DOF Kestrel and it's basically been retired for the last 9 months at least. I did like it initially but they broke it

Hey Boss, what is this Garmin thing you speak of...I'm still stuck in the world of Kestrels

QUick google-fu something like this? https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/583825

 

[Lowlight]

that is one device,

the GARMIN AB Watch

Garmin tactix® Delta Solar - Ballistics Edition Smartwatch

tactix® Delta Solar - Ballistics Edition features a solar charging lens, specialized tactical features and AB Elite software for long range shooting in the field.

buy.garmin.com

 

[kyzim311]

I have had great luck with the 4DOF calculator, but you have to enter everything in correctly to get the right answer. Station pressure, altitude, temperature, humidity, muzzle velocity, scope height over bore, barrel twist, shooting angle, firing azimuth and latitude all need checked (last two are more important as you get closer and past 1000 yards). If all of those inputs are correct, then tune your axial form factor at 3-800 yards.

 

[Lowlight]

thanks captain obvious nobody knows how to enter things correctly

 

[CNC-Dude]

From the Hornady videos they say it's only guaranteed to get you on target with the first shot. It's done that for me at different shooting facilities at different altitudes as well as weather conditions and distances. If your looking for it to get you from bullseye to bullseye at different distances and other conditions, you may have your expectations too high.

 

[Texasflyer]

Daaang, that is cool. Is it huge?, 51x51 im guessing is mm.... it would look like i strapped a gameboy to my wrist :-/

that is one device,

the GARMIN AB Watch

Garmin tactix® Delta Solar - Ballistics Edition Smartwatch

tactix® Delta Solar - Ballistics Edition features a solar charging lens, specialized tactical features and AB Elite software for long range shooting in the field.

buy.garmin.com

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

It was really good,

I honestly think they "updated" out of usefulness

I agree. I had some moderate success with it last summer. It at least got me in the ballpark. But this winter something seemed to change.

 

[jasent]

I went back to AB. 4dof sucks now. Agree they ruined it

 

[Slides]

Using bore to scope height, velocity data from zeroing and appropriate atmospheric pressure and temp for the conditions I was often only a couple of clicks off out to 900 yards using Hornady American gunner in 6.5cm just off the website. Can't really complain about that?

 

[Yoteski]

My 4dof kestrel still gives fantastic firing solutions using Hornady bullets. I haven't used the app in forever. I wish they'd try and update their library a little more often.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Strelok Pro still works...

 

[atepointer]

I'm about to delete Hornady at this point. So, for an iphoner wanting to use a phone based approach...for those who have used both which one did you settle on Strelok or AB? Thanks

 

[Bandit320]

AB is spot on for all my weapon /cartridge combos.

 

[atepointer]

AB is spot on for all my weapon /cartridge combos.

When I buy that app does it have a library that adds all the data for the bullet? I was playing with their web page bullet library and selected a bullet and it didn't load anything in teh fields. MIght be my browser or something, but seems a bit weird to have a bullet in the 'library' and then I have to go to the Hornady site and look for BCs and whatnot. I'm sure it was just my browser.

Ballistics Calculator | Applied Ballistics, LLC

appliedballisticsllc.com

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Yall wait until @THEIS s' app drops. Its about to fuck up everything on the market. My only complaint is, i wish it was in a stand alone unit with a wind meter like a kestrel.

 

[Bandit320]

When I buy that app does it have a library that adds all the data for the bullet? I was playing with their web page bullet library and selected a bullet and it didn't load anything in teh fields. MIght be my browser or something, but seems a bit weird to have a bullet in the 'library' and then I have to go to the Hornady site and look for BCs and whatnot. I'm sure it was just my browser.

Ballistics Calculator | Applied Ballistics, LLC

appliedballisticsllc.com

They have a large library that comes with the app that has the BCs for most bullets. They also have custom drag models that you can purchase for some bullets that they have tested. I think the organization of the menu’s are a bit akward but the output has always been right on.

 

[lash]

When I buy that app does it have a library that adds all the data for the bullet? I was playing with their web page bullet library and selected a bullet and it didn't load anything in teh fields. MIght be my browser or something, but seems a bit weird to have a bullet in the 'library' and then I have to go to the Hornady site and look for BCs and whatnot. I'm sure it was just my browser.

Ballistics Calculator | Applied Ballistics, LLC

appliedballisticsllc.com

The BCs are in the app for most ballets commonly used and many that are not that common.

 

[atepointer]

Yall wait until @THEIS s' app drops. Its about to fuck up everything on the market. My only complaint is, i wish it was in a stand alone unit with a wind meter like a kestrel.

Ahh very good I forgot about that. Any idea or dates on release?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Ahh very good I forgot about that. Any idea or dates on release?

Its in the short rows. Shouldn't be long. Maybe @THEIS can give some updated info.

 

[Punkur67]

I really struggled with getting my dope right on the Hornady app. I was way high past 1k. I went to the Kestrel and was right on target. I quit trying with Hornady after my Kestrel results.

I actually started messing with it again recently because I want a phone app as a backup in case I have issues with the Kestrel at the range. I plan to play with Ballistic Arc, TRASOL, and Hornady to see what one works best for me as a backup.

 

[Smokin7s]

Mine works great dead nuts in any condition so far.

 

[THEIS]

Its in the short rows. Shouldn't be long. Maybe @THEIS can give some updated info.

Hi,

Android version soon soon soon (iOS shortly after----Staggered rollout for sake of learning curve on our end, lol)...exact date is trying to be pinned down now but few things are not at my control such as Google Developer account verifying and validating the bank account attached to the app profile.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[powdahound76]

Track Suit

Hurry man. Hurry.
IOS needed.

Thanks

 

[Long Range 338]

From the Hornady videos they say it's only guaranteed to get you on target with the first shot. It's done that for me at different shooting facilities at different altitudes as well as weather conditions and distances. If your looking for it to get you from bullseye to bullseye at different distances and other conditions, you may have your expectations too high.

WTF? What is it that a ballistic calculator does??? If I get good data for the first shot wouldn’t it be good for successive shots?

 

[Long Range 338]

OP
The 4DOF program has been money in the past but they have broken it a couple times with updates... last fall it was working great but was giving me some junk last week. Also the bc calculator is a waste of time, the only reason to use 4DOF is if they have the Doppler data for your bullet. If not, use something else as it’s just frustrating. Sad because it really showed promise after the initial release.

 

[TripleBull]

"Is the Hornady 4 DOF's only use as a comedic tool?"​

Works great for me.

 

[Lawyer]

Hi Guys,

i know that the last Post in this Thread is now over 3 Years ago.
Does anybody still use it or recommend it ?
I´m attending to a Long Range Match in September and need a Ballistic App.

Last time at the 300 meters Range i´ve used the 4 DoF Calculator Online.
After shooting there with frustration i found out, the Pica Rail was loose, so i could not conform the Calculations.

Any Advice for me ?

 

[Long Range 338]

4DOF has a great track record, it did have a couple hiccups early on. It is free so there is zero reason not to give it a try. As long as you are using a Doppler derived calculation it works incredibly well. If you use the bc calculator, it doesn’t work nearly as well.

 

[Lawyer]

Great, the bullets i´m using right now for my 6.5 Creedmoor are all listed in the 4DOF Section, so i´ll give it a try.
As preperation for the competition i´ll shoot again at 300m and use the 4DOF prediction for dial up.
Measured my speed today, 25 shots within a SD 0f 8.2 fps should be good enough.

 

[Baron23]

Great, the bullets i´m using right now for my 6.5 Creedmoor are all listed in the 4DOF Section, so i´ll give it a try.
As preperation for the competition i´ll shoot again at 300m and use the 4DOF prediction for dial up.
Measured my speed today, 25 shots within a SD 0f 8.2 fps should be good enough.

I have had good luck with 4 DOF for Hornady and Berger bullets. Example of recent truing...had good MV and shot at 500 meters (547 yards) on to freshly painted steel and was 4" high (.2 mils). Increased MV a bit and it was spot on and I haven't looked back since.

I don't routinely have a longer range to true at...so, do with what you got.

I see that a few years ago Frank mentioned barrel angle. I also don't have much opportunity to shoot long range/high angle shots so I haven't used it...and Frank's comment was in 2021 and I'm fairly sure they have updated their app/Kestrel multiple times since. Not sure if the problems he saw have been corrected...I'd be surprised if not.

 

[Lawyer]

Inside the App, there is a "Shooting Angle" button, if you click it it opens a new window, which reads the actual angle.
If you tilt the phone, it reads the angle and you can click on Capture.
With my Data at 600 meters, roughly 660 yards, an angle change of 10° results in 3.94 vs. 4.14 Mil

Is it possible to pair the App with any Garmin SmartWatch that has built in features it can measure like Altitude, Humidity, ... ?
Garmin has a Temp Sensor, the only thing that is missing is a Wind Meter.

 

[6.5SH]

Is it possible to pair the App with any Garmin SmartWatch that has built in features it can measure like Altitude, Humidity, ... ?
Garmin has a Temp Sensor, the only thing that is missing is a Wind Meter.

Unless it has changed and not been documented, no.
Kestrel 5500 and higher, WeatherFlow and recently added the Calypso Ultrasonic Mini are it for now.

Even the Kestrel Drop won't pair.

 

[Lawyer]

Thank you for the information. Those are very few options and from what i´ve seen, only the Kestrel can deliver more information than just Wind Speed and direction.
There are Pros and Cons for both the Garmin Smartwatch and the Kestrel 5500.

 

[DocRDS]

My Kestrel (AB) and 4DOF give the same info essentially. The only difference is is in the hundredeths of mills aka 7.22 vs 7.24. If you can shoot 0.02 mils at any distance, my hats off.

 

[abn31c]

I have kestrel's in both, they line up the same. For some reason, probably something I'm doing wrong, I just get better results shooting beyond 1400 or so with the 4dof. In that rifle I'm using 250 ATIP's.

 

[Bmghunter]

Pay attention to the axial form factor for your bullet. Berger published this number. Even when you pick the bullet from the 4dof database, the axial form factor is not entered for you. The value from Berger may even be out of range of the allowed value. My 153.5 LRHT from Berger is a .89 but 4dof only allows down to .90. I found the 4dof values were spot on once every input was correct, and this axial form factor made a big difference for me.

 

[Baron23]

Pay attention to the axial form factor for your bullet. Berger published this number. Even when you pick the bullet from the 4dof database, the axial form factor is not entered for you. The value from Berger may even be out of range of the allowed value. My 153.5 LRHT from Berger is a .89 but 4dof only allows down to .90. I found the 4dof values were spot on once every input was correct, and this axial form factor made a big difference for me.

Where did the .89 value come from, please.

 

[Bmghunter]

Where did the .89 value come from, please.

Berger has g7 form factor on their specifications.

 

[Baron23]

Berger has g7 form factor on their specifications.

Dang...so they do! Never noticed that...just the G1/7 BC's.

So, per Berger this is the value to put into 4DOF's axial form factor instead of screwing around with MV to true up?

Thanks

 

[Ledzep]

Pay attention to the axial form factor for your bullet. Berger published this number. Even when you pick the bullet from the 4dof database, the axial form factor is not entered for you. The value from Berger may even be out of range of the allowed value. My 153.5 LRHT from Berger is a .89 but 4dof only allows down to .90. I found the 4dof values were spot on once every input was correct, and this axial form factor made a big difference for me.

Axial Form Factor in 4DoF and Form Factor from BC calculations are not the same thing.

In general, if you have to adjust more than .95-1.05 on axial form factor it's a good indication of an incorrect input somewhere else. Usually MV is not what you initially recorded or your scope over bore is incorrect or something else is off. Almost every time when we test rifles on the big doppler head Axial Form Factor is 0.97-1.03. Outliers do happen but they're rare.

 

[Ledzep]

So, per Berger this is the value to put into 4DOF's axial form factor instead of screwing around with MV to true up?

Per Hornady, no. Not at all.

Axial Form Factor is an adjustment that is made barrel-to-barrel, and even muzzle device to muzzle device to adjust for the muzzle exit yaw state that causes down-range drag effects. The 4DoF files are set up as an average of several barrels in our testing/development of the file, and the Axial Form Factor allows you to tune the drag profile to match your rifle.

Again, if you are pushing that value around more than +/- .05, it might be worth double checking environmentals, zero, MV, scope over bore, etc.