So ive had my eye on the hdmr but now the new one has come out. I guess my Q is, does the new one bring that much more to the table that it can justify $2000 price tag. I dont know about you guys but that to me is a big number for a bushy. And by any chance did I miss a review on the new one? Is there one out there?
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Rifle Scopes Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
- Thread starter qqqq33
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Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I went over one at SHOT and the features are excellent but I found the glass quality to be a bit of a let down for the money.
I was much happier with the 1-8 FFP version.
I went over one at SHOT and the features are excellent but I found the glass quality to be a bit of a let down for the money.
I was much happier with the 1-8 FFP version.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.
I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.</div></div>
opinion, opinion, opinion. The Bushnell is a fantastic scope and can hold it's own against anyone in its price range. The glass has been improved as has many other features. Illumination is rarely if ever used and unnecessary.
This isn't your daddy's WalMart Bushnell. It's a serious tool and worth every penny.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.</div></div>
opinion, opinion, opinion. The Bushnell is a fantastic scope and can hold it's own against anyone in its price range. The glass has been improved as has many other features. Illumination is rarely if ever used and unnecessary.
This isn't your daddy's WalMart Bushnell. It's a serious tool and worth every penny.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.</div></div>
opinion, opinion, opinion. The Bushnell is a fantastic scope and can hold it's own against anyone in its price range. The glass has been improved as has many other features. Illumination is rarely if ever used and unnecessary.
This isn't your daddy's WalMart Bushnell. It's a serious tool and worth every penny. </div></div>
IMO= In my opinion... Was I not clear about that? Also, I frequently use illumination while hunting as do all the folks I hunt with who have the option. My point was that for 2k the bushy is lacking common features of its competitors. Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.</div></div>
opinion, opinion, opinion. The Bushnell is a fantastic scope and can hold it's own against anyone in its price range. The glass has been improved as has many other features. Illumination is rarely if ever used and unnecessary.
This isn't your daddy's WalMart Bushnell. It's a serious tool and worth every penny. </div></div>
IMO= In my opinion... Was I not clear about that? Also, I frequently use illumination while hunting as do all the folks I hunt with who have the option. My point was that for 2k the bushy is lacking common features of its competitors. Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.</div></div>
opinion, opinion, opinion. The Bushnell is a fantastic scope and can hold it's own against anyone in its price range. The glass has been improved as has many other features. Illumination is rarely if ever used and unnecessary.
This isn't your daddy's WalMart Bushnell. It's a serious tool and worth every penny. </div></div>
IMO= In my opinion... Was I not clear about that? Also, I frequently use illumination while hunting as do all the folks I hunt with who have the option. My point was that for 2k the bushy is lacking common features of its competitors. Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
The new 4.5-30x HDMR is a better optic IMO then the Vortex Razor. It is a higher mag range which is more usable. The glass is much crisper to me, also I think the edge to edge picture is much better. The reticle selection is better and more usable to me, I never found the Razor reticle to be specific enough. The Razor has a very picky eye relief for me. Their customer service is great, because you have to use it constantly. I had 3 razors at one point all 3 of them went into service once, while I had one scope that went in over 3 times. I also had one of their spotting scopes go down the first day in use. Their track record in durability is not to good with me..... but again this is all my take on them.
I have replaced 3 S&B 5-25 scopes with the HDMR so far. For the money it will be hard to surpass it. Had you got in on the GAP group buy there were $1990.00. That is less then a NF F1.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the hdmr, but for 2k imo there are better options. The vortex razor for example has better glass in addition to illumination and their fantastic customer service. If overall length is more important to you though, the HDMR might be the way to go.</div></div>
opinion, opinion, opinion. The Bushnell is a fantastic scope and can hold it's own against anyone in its price range. The glass has been improved as has many other features. Illumination is rarely if ever used and unnecessary.
This isn't your daddy's WalMart Bushnell. It's a serious tool and worth every penny. </div></div>
IMO= In my opinion... Was I not clear about that? Also, I frequently use illumination while hunting as do all the folks I hunt with who have the option. My point was that for 2k the bushy is lacking common features of its competitors. Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
The new 4.5-30x HDMR is a better optic IMO then the Vortex Razor. It is a higher mag range which is more usable. The glass is much crisper to me, also I think the edge to edge picture is much better. The reticle selection is better and more usable to me, I never found the Razor reticle to be specific enough. The Razor has a very picky eye relief for me. Their customer service is great, because you have to use it constantly. I had 3 razors at one point all 3 of them went into service once, while I had one scope that went in over 3 times. I also had one of their spotting scopes go down the first day in use. Their track record in durability is not to good with me..... but again this is all my take on them.
I have replaced 3 S&B 5-25 scopes with the HDMR so far. For the money it will be hard to surpass it. Had you got in on the GAP group buy there were $1990.00. That is less then a NF F1.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...My point was that for 2k the bushy is <span style="text-decoration: underline">lacking common features of its competitors.</span> Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
LIKE WHAT? What is it lacking at a 2k price point?
In a heads up vs a few others at the 2k price...it OFFERS way more than it gives up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...My point was that for 2k the bushy is <span style="text-decoration: underline">lacking common features of its competitors.</span> Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
LIKE WHAT? What is it lacking at a 2k price point?
In a heads up vs a few others at the 2k price...it OFFERS way more than it gives up.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
You do realize the New one with the "$600" jump in price is a different scope with a much wider magnification range, right?
Its not a Jump, its a new model. The one youre speaking of had a less than $100 jump from 12'-13'.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
You do realize the New one with the "$600" jump in price is a different scope with a much wider magnification range, right?
Its not a Jump, its a new model. The one youre speaking of had a less than $100 jump from 12'-13'.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I must say, I have never had to use illumination in a single competition I've ever shot in...not once. The new Bushnell weren't designed specifically for hunting use, they were designed with "tactical" purposes in mind, whether that be competition use or LE use. There are better scopes suited for hunting, but there are only a few scopes I would put above the new XRS.
I must say, I have never had to use illumination in a single competition I've ever shot in...not once. The new Bushnell weren't designed specifically for hunting use, they were designed with "tactical" purposes in mind, whether that be competition use or LE use. There are better scopes suited for hunting, but there are only a few scopes I would put above the new XRS.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I really like my G2DMR 3.5-21.
Shot steel today at 370, 450 and 610 using the reticle in 3-5 mph crosswinds. No dialing and only missed once. That was on my first shot on an 8" popper at 610 and an error on my part. Went back and forth from 370 to 450 as fast as I could run the bolt.
I shot a few deer and hogs last year at 300+yards in the last light of the afternoon without trouble. Took a coyote at 415 yards that was trotting into a 3-5 mph wind while using the reticle. I wouldn't be mad if mine had zero stops and illumination but don't have to have them either. I marked my zero on elevation and windage knobs with a paint pen. It's easy to see if you are off by a revolution when you are dialing adjustments.
I got in the first group buy for $1250 for the original G2DMR and I feel like it was well worth it. It tracks really well and I like the hell out of the reticle.
I really like my G2DMR 3.5-21.
Shot steel today at 370, 450 and 610 using the reticle in 3-5 mph crosswinds. No dialing and only missed once. That was on my first shot on an 8" popper at 610 and an error on my part. Went back and forth from 370 to 450 as fast as I could run the bolt.
I shot a few deer and hogs last year at 300+yards in the last light of the afternoon without trouble. Took a coyote at 415 yards that was trotting into a 3-5 mph wind while using the reticle. I wouldn't be mad if mine had zero stops and illumination but don't have to have them either. I marked my zero on elevation and windage knobs with a paint pen. It's easy to see if you are off by a revolution when you are dialing adjustments.
I got in the first group buy for $1250 for the original G2DMR and I feel like it was well worth it. It tracks really well and I like the hell out of the reticle.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c_bass16</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...My point was that for 2k the bushy is <span style="text-decoration: underline">lacking common features of its competitors.</span> Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
LIKE WHAT? What is it lacking at a 2k price point?
In a heads up vs a few others at the 2k price...it OFFERS way more than it gives up. </div></div>
1) illumination 2) adjustment range (unless they fixed this on the new model) 3) glass (the picture looks good, but gets fuzzy around the edges in addition to the well documented CA issues). You making me complain about a scope that I really like is starting to wear thin.
I have no experience with the 4-30 so I can't speak on that, and I was basing my assessment of price on the OP's information.
I have given my opinion, take it or leave it. Just remember, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c_bass16</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...My point was that for 2k the bushy is <span style="text-decoration: underline">lacking common features of its competitors.</span> Back at its 2012 price of 1300 it was FANTASTIC, but with a $600 jump my critique is completely justified </div></div>
LIKE WHAT? What is it lacking at a 2k price point?
In a heads up vs a few others at the 2k price...it OFFERS way more than it gives up. </div></div>
1) illumination 2) adjustment range (unless they fixed this on the new model) 3) glass (the picture looks good, but gets fuzzy around the edges in addition to the well documented CA issues). You making me complain about a scope that I really like is starting to wear thin.
I have no experience with the 4-30 so I can't speak on that, and I was basing my assessment of price on the OP's information.
I have given my opinion, take it or leave it. Just remember, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
thanks guys for all the in put but I think that im going to go with the hdmr for $1172 from
http://grabagun.com/bushnell-elite-t-3-5-21x50-34mm-g2.html
Thats just to much money to leave on the table for what they are offering.
thanks guys for all the in put but I think that im going to go with the hdmr for $1172 from
http://grabagun.com/bushnell-elite-t-3-5-21x50-34mm-g2.html
Thats just to much money to leave on the table for what they are offering.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
The new HDMR is a great optic, I'm glad you all don't want to buy them, makes it easier for the people who do want them to move up on the wait list.
The new HDMR is a great optic, I'm glad you all don't want to buy them, makes it easier for the people who do want them to move up on the wait list.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1) illumination 2) adjustment range (unless they fixed this on the new model) 3) glass (the picture looks good, but gets fuzzy around the edges in addition to the well documented CA issues). You making me complain about a scope that I really like is starting to wear thin.
I have no experience with the 4-30 so I can't speak on that, and I was basing my assessment of price on the OP's information.
I have given my opinion, take it or leave it. Just remember, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.</div></div>
You're right, so stop arguing about something you know nothing about making yourself look like a retard.
1) this is not "Hunter's Hide" and the vast majority of tactical shooters do not use illumination. That is why when Bushnell started their research on a NEW scope, they decided to omit it, the same reason it wasn't put on the old scope. 2) The adjustment range has not only been fixed, it's increased in the NEW model, 3) the "CA" issues are bullshit. The one guy making all the noise about the CA admitted it was his first scope he's ever bought. He doesn't even know what CA is. And, again, the NEW scopes have entirely different glass and coatings.
Then most importantly there is this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no experience with the 4-30 so I can't speak on that, and I was basing my assessment of price on the OP's information.</div></div>.
The OP specifically asked about a NEW Bushnell, one you admit you know nothing about, and then go on and opine with an apples to orange comparison of the OLD vs. the NEW.
So it's obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about, so refrain from opining.
All this and I even shoot a Vortex Razor.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1) illumination 2) adjustment range (unless they fixed this on the new model) 3) glass (the picture looks good, but gets fuzzy around the edges in addition to the well documented CA issues). You making me complain about a scope that I really like is starting to wear thin.
I have no experience with the 4-30 so I can't speak on that, and I was basing my assessment of price on the OP's information.
I have given my opinion, take it or leave it. Just remember, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.</div></div>
You're right, so stop arguing about something you know nothing about making yourself look like a retard.
1) this is not "Hunter's Hide" and the vast majority of tactical shooters do not use illumination. That is why when Bushnell started their research on a NEW scope, they decided to omit it, the same reason it wasn't put on the old scope. 2) The adjustment range has not only been fixed, it's increased in the NEW model, 3) the "CA" issues are bullshit. The one guy making all the noise about the CA admitted it was his first scope he's ever bought. He doesn't even know what CA is. And, again, the NEW scopes have entirely different glass and coatings.
Then most importantly there is this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no experience with the 4-30 so I can't speak on that, and I was basing my assessment of price on the OP's information.</div></div>.
The OP specifically asked about a NEW Bushnell, one you admit you know nothing about, and then go on and opine with an apples to orange comparison of the OLD vs. the NEW.
So it's obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about, so refrain from opining.
All this and I even shoot a Vortex Razor.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I'm a fan of the Elite Tactical line. I'm pretty excited about the new additions.
Sounds like a miscommunication. I think someone above was referring to the Gen 2 HDMR 3.5-21 compared to the original 3.5-21, not the more beastly 4.5-30. Comments might hold the same merit but sounds like something got lost in translation.
It certainly looks they have made some big changes. So has the glass in the 3.5-21 been improved upon as well or has the 4.5-30 started a league of its own?
In dealing with them (doesn't mean much) they suggested that the original HDMR shares the same lenses as the rest of the Elite line but is separated by a different optical system. They swear up and down the glass itself is the same and held to the same specifications as the rest. The suggested that the difference in quality has to do with lens placement and that the lens coatings were the same. The same rep claimed they are all ED as well so maybe it should be taken with a grain of salt.
I'm a fan of the Elite Tactical line. I'm pretty excited about the new additions.
Sounds like a miscommunication. I think someone above was referring to the Gen 2 HDMR 3.5-21 compared to the original 3.5-21, not the more beastly 4.5-30. Comments might hold the same merit but sounds like something got lost in translation.
It certainly looks they have made some big changes. So has the glass in the 3.5-21 been improved upon as well or has the 4.5-30 started a league of its own?
In dealing with them (doesn't mean much) they suggested that the original HDMR shares the same lenses as the rest of the Elite line but is separated by a different optical system. They swear up and down the glass itself is the same and held to the same specifications as the rest. The suggested that the difference in quality has to do with lens placement and that the lens coatings were the same. The same rep claimed they are all ED as well so maybe it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I own the H59 HDMR. The truth is that the HDMR's are very well made scopes. The construction and functionality of the HDMR is very impressive. The glass is not on par with higher end scopes. That makes sense given the price. I am going to respectfully disagree with Mike on the CA issue. (I am being respectful because he is a nice guy and much larger than a normal human.)
My scope does not have the CA issue but I have a buddy that has the G2 and when I looked through it I was shocked at how bad the CA issue was. I didn't say anything to him as he is happy with it as is.
As far as this new Bushnell scope being more expensive, I would be fine with that if they changed/improved the glass. The overall construction was already bullet proof. I don't think most people need 30X and I rarely run mine above 15X but the 10mils turret would be a nice feature. The bottom line is that many of the scope companies are stepping up their game and we are benefitting greatly from it. I look forward to getting my eye behind the new HDMR. I have stated more than once that if the original HDMR's had slightly better glass for slightly more money, they would be handsdown the best value available. Maybe Bushnell has done just that with this new scope.
I own the H59 HDMR. The truth is that the HDMR's are very well made scopes. The construction and functionality of the HDMR is very impressive. The glass is not on par with higher end scopes. That makes sense given the price. I am going to respectfully disagree with Mike on the CA issue. (I am being respectful because he is a nice guy and much larger than a normal human.)
As far as this new Bushnell scope being more expensive, I would be fine with that if they changed/improved the glass. The overall construction was already bullet proof. I don't think most people need 30X and I rarely run mine above 15X but the 10mils turret would be a nice feature. The bottom line is that many of the scope companies are stepping up their game and we are benefitting greatly from it. I look forward to getting my eye behind the new HDMR. I have stated more than once that if the original HDMR's had slightly better glass for slightly more money, they would be handsdown the best value available. Maybe Bushnell has done just that with this new scope.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3) the "CA" issues are bullshit. The one guy making all the noise about the CA admitted it was his first scope he's ever bought. He doesn't even know what CA is. And, again, the NEW scopes have entirely different glass and coatings.</div></div>
Actually, Mike, that's not entirely true. I've seen quite a bit of CA from the HDMR's, and even on the new XRS. They both seem to have quite a bit of CA when on the highest power. I have a picture I took yesterday to show how bad it was JUST on white surfaces. It is much worse in real life, but the glass is still impressively clear despite the CA. However, I am still very impressed with the new XRS. The glass is very clear, and the CA only appears in the 25-30x range. Below that, it completely disappears. Disclaimer: No laughing at the terrible groups
, I was using a brand new suppressor, and it apparently needed to be dirtied up a bit. After 50 rounds, the groups started shrinking down back to normal.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3) the "CA" issues are bullshit. The one guy making all the noise about the CA admitted it was his first scope he's ever bought. He doesn't even know what CA is. And, again, the NEW scopes have entirely different glass and coatings.</div></div>
Actually, Mike, that's not entirely true. I've seen quite a bit of CA from the HDMR's, and even on the new XRS. They both seem to have quite a bit of CA when on the highest power. I have a picture I took yesterday to show how bad it was JUST on white surfaces. It is much worse in real life, but the glass is still impressively clear despite the CA. However, I am still very impressed with the new XRS. The glass is very clear, and the CA only appears in the 25-30x range. Below that, it completely disappears. Disclaimer: No laughing at the terrible groups
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
Also, back to Red47's comment about being "fuzzy around the edges", I saw absolutely none of that. The optics were very impressive, and the edge to edge quality was better than some scopes I've seen that cost much more.
Also, back to Red47's comment about being "fuzzy around the edges", I saw absolutely none of that. The optics were very impressive, and the edge to edge quality was better than some scopes I've seen that cost much more.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
Are we going back down the "CA" road again?
Seriously?
I have lined up HDMR's with S&B, Nightforce, Vortex, etc. In the right conditional all exhibited some level of chromatic aberration. These are rifle scopes. CA in high end camera lenses is not acceptable. I have a Canon zoom that never leaves my safe because it has extremely minimal CA (but noticeable in a crop). I don't shoot award winning photos through rifle scopes. The HDMR has proven it can shoot award winning targets.
I have always held the position that if YOU are spending the money on a piece of equipment then YOU get to decide if it's worth the money. However we seem to have a serious problem with unrealistic expectations lately. Everyone wants $3000 worth of features in a sub-$1k price point. This just doesn't happen. If you want to see a good example of that, take a look at a Barska or Countersniper. That is what happens when you try to match the spec sheet of a high end scope in a cheap package.
I have shot the HDMR and the new LRS (HDMR Gen2). They are excellent scopes for the money. I would loved to have seen the LRS at the same price point as the HDMR, but I knew added features (zero stop and high speed turrets) would add to the cost. That is economics. I am glad to see that the HDMR will not be dropped for 2013. That way you guys who don't feel you need the added features can save a few bucks.
I got to play with the XRS (4.5-30x) at SHOT. I refuse to comment on the glass quality because the lighting in SHOT can make high end photo and video equipment look like shit. I need to mount it to a rifle and USE IT before I feel qualified to comment on it. Kitchen window reviews suck. They don't tell you how the scope will perform in it's intended role. If you just want something to look through, get a telescope.
Are we going back down the "CA" road again?
Seriously?
I have lined up HDMR's with S&B, Nightforce, Vortex, etc. In the right conditional all exhibited some level of chromatic aberration. These are rifle scopes. CA in high end camera lenses is not acceptable. I have a Canon zoom that never leaves my safe because it has extremely minimal CA (but noticeable in a crop). I don't shoot award winning photos through rifle scopes. The HDMR has proven it can shoot award winning targets.
I have always held the position that if YOU are spending the money on a piece of equipment then YOU get to decide if it's worth the money. However we seem to have a serious problem with unrealistic expectations lately. Everyone wants $3000 worth of features in a sub-$1k price point. This just doesn't happen. If you want to see a good example of that, take a look at a Barska or Countersniper. That is what happens when you try to match the spec sheet of a high end scope in a cheap package.
I have shot the HDMR and the new LRS (HDMR Gen2). They are excellent scopes for the money. I would loved to have seen the LRS at the same price point as the HDMR, but I knew added features (zero stop and high speed turrets) would add to the cost. That is economics. I am glad to see that the HDMR will not be dropped for 2013. That way you guys who don't feel you need the added features can save a few bucks.
I got to play with the XRS (4.5-30x) at SHOT. I refuse to comment on the glass quality because the lighting in SHOT can make high end photo and video equipment look like shit. I need to mount it to a rifle and USE IT before I feel qualified to comment on it. Kitchen window reviews suck. They don't tell you how the scope will perform in it's intended role. If you just want something to look through, get a telescope.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I was not trying to attack the Bushnell's in any way. Actually after having owned many top tier scopes, I was very impressed with this scope. I have never experienced CA on Premiers, Schmidt and Benders, or Hensoldts, but I have seen it one many USO's. I don't list it as a big problem, but it IS present, and for the type of shooting I do (the competition I primarily shoot at uses painted white steel at distance), it is very noticeable. I also noted that even though it showed signs of CA, I am still VERY impressed with this scope. I mean, look at the image I posted. Sure, it has CA, but look how clear the glass is on 30x. This is, by cliche, "not your daddy's Bushnell." You will even notice, that this was taken on a cloudy, gloomy day, and the picture was still impressive.
I was not trying to attack the Bushnell's in any way. Actually after having owned many top tier scopes, I was very impressed with this scope. I have never experienced CA on Premiers, Schmidt and Benders, or Hensoldts, but I have seen it one many USO's. I don't list it as a big problem, but it IS present, and for the type of shooting I do (the competition I primarily shoot at uses painted white steel at distance), it is very noticeable. I also noted that even though it showed signs of CA, I am still VERY impressed with this scope. I mean, look at the image I posted. Sure, it has CA, but look how clear the glass is on 30x. This is, by cliche, "not your daddy's Bushnell." You will even notice, that this was taken on a cloudy, gloomy day, and the picture was still impressive.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
remau308, I was not singling you out in any way.
Just trying to shut down the argument before it started, and keep expectations realistic.
remau308, I was not singling you out in any way.
Just trying to shut down the argument before it started, and keep expectations realistic.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I got one of the new XRS 4.5-30x on the GAP group buy. So far I'm very impressed with the scope. I was very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the glass. I've got a couple of S&B 5-25 and the Elite's glass seems very bright, and the scope has less tunneling than my S&B. Eye relief is good and a good sight picture is easy to obtain. I like the 30x magnification.
So far, I think it is a great scope for the money, I'm definately impressed and pleased with my purchase.
I got one of the new XRS 4.5-30x on the GAP group buy. So far I'm very impressed with the scope. I was very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the glass. I've got a couple of S&B 5-25 and the Elite's glass seems very bright, and the scope has less tunneling than my S&B. Eye relief is good and a good sight picture is easy to obtain. I like the 30x magnification.
So far, I think it is a great scope for the money, I'm definately impressed and pleased with my purchase.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
Remau,
When I said CA was bullshit, I wasn't saying CA doesn't exist as we have it even in the human eye. What I was calling BS on is that every scope has some CA, even the human eye and NOT every Bushnell, or even most Bushnell's, have it noticeably.
As was stated though, we don't need to go down that path again.
Remau,
When I said CA was bullshit, I wasn't saying CA doesn't exist as we have it even in the human eye. What I was calling BS on is that every scope has some CA, even the human eye and NOT every Bushnell, or even most Bushnell's, have it noticeably.
As was stated though, we don't need to go down that path again.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I did notice a vortex razor on mike's rifle the second day I was at K&M. The two days I spent there I saw that the majority of people had outfitted there rifles with Bushnells and I'm pretty sure I looked through all of them as we'll as some premieres, S&B, nightforce, vortex and steiners. I'm using a USO and found myself with some scope envy over the Bushnells. Mainly because they paid way less for an optic that seemed in some ways superior. Definitely my next choice of optic, even when compared to the others. Thanks for your help with some good shooting last weekend Mike, much appreciated.
I did notice a vortex razor on mike's rifle the second day I was at K&M. The two days I spent there I saw that the majority of people had outfitted there rifles with Bushnells and I'm pretty sure I looked through all of them as we'll as some premieres, S&B, nightforce, vortex and steiners. I'm using a USO and found myself with some scope envy over the Bushnells. Mainly because they paid way less for an optic that seemed in some ways superior. Definitely my next choice of optic, even when compared to the others. Thanks for your help with some good shooting last weekend Mike, much appreciated.
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I saw where the new 3-21x50/3.5-21x50 has zero stop on it and 10mil turrets with H-59 reticle... Is that true? If so does anyone have a link to someone who sells them? I saw something at SHOT show 2013, but I'm not seeing it anywhere and to be honest, I'm not sure if its available yet.
Looks to be worth the 2k price if it has those features. I have NOD's so I could care less about illuminated reticles
I saw where the new 3-21x50/3.5-21x50 has zero stop on it and 10mil turrets with H-59 reticle... Is that true? If so does anyone have a link to someone who sells them? I saw something at SHOT show 2013, but I'm not seeing it anywhere and to be honest, I'm not sure if its available yet.
Looks to be worth the 2k price if it has those features. I have NOD's so I could care less about illuminated reticles
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
I have a Bushnell 6-24 Elite mil/mil FFP scope w/ illuminated mil dot. I'm happy with it on my 243 WSSM Varmint AR but when I went looking for more scope at the SHOT show, I landed on the Vortex EBR-2B 10mil Razor. Why did I spend $500 or more than the HDMR? The G2DMR reticle didn't have enough information for me (wasn't "busy" enough
), and it lacked illumination and the adjustment range I needed (even running a +30 MOA base). I also prefer the feel of the Razor clicks and the fast twist 10 mil. / turn. The Horus SHOT show special (H59 HDMR w/ a refurb palm computer plus software) was tempting, but I knew the scope's basic features would fall short in my application (though, personally, I think I'd love the reticle).
I'm sure you'll be happy with your HDMR. It's a better scope than my FFP 6-24 Elite, if you don't need illumination. Plus, you gotta helluva price!
I have a Bushnell 6-24 Elite mil/mil FFP scope w/ illuminated mil dot. I'm happy with it on my 243 WSSM Varmint AR but when I went looking for more scope at the SHOT show, I landed on the Vortex EBR-2B 10mil Razor. Why did I spend $500 or more than the HDMR? The G2DMR reticle didn't have enough information for me (wasn't "busy" enough
), and it lacked illumination and the adjustment range I needed (even running a +30 MOA base). I also prefer the feel of the Razor clicks and the fast twist 10 mil. / turn. The Horus SHOT show special (H59 HDMR w/ a refurb palm computer plus software) was tempting, but I knew the scope's basic features would fall short in my application (though, personally, I think I'd love the reticle).I'm sure you'll be happy with your HDMR. It's a better scope than my FFP 6-24 Elite, if you don't need illumination. Plus, you gotta helluva price!
Re: Is the new bushnell tactical worth the money
And thanks a lot guys. Now i'm wondering "Bushnell or Kahles?!?!" again. I thought I had it settled. I looked through the Kahles at SS2013 and I was extremely impressed; however, as it was stated above, I haven't been able to mount one and fire one. Therefore, the only things I can ride on are reviews and assumptions.
My thoughts about the XRS have been conflicted. I currently shoot an AI with a HDMR sitting on top. Needless to say, it more than does its job. As for the XRS, part of me finds it extraordinarily difficult to step away from the bushnell line. The other part of me knows that the Kahles is worth every dime.
Clearly if the Bushnell XRS is worth every dime at 2000, i'd buy that over a scope worth every dime at 3000. Based on my requirements for a scope, that's all I need. However, I do wish there was a small illuminated X-hair on the HDMR. I don't care about the entire reticle, but one dot in the middle wouldn't hurt.
SO back to the "do I save a K and get the XRS? or do I get the Kahles?"
And thanks a lot guys. Now i'm wondering "Bushnell or Kahles?!?!" again. I thought I had it settled. I looked through the Kahles at SS2013 and I was extremely impressed; however, as it was stated above, I haven't been able to mount one and fire one. Therefore, the only things I can ride on are reviews and assumptions.
My thoughts about the XRS have been conflicted. I currently shoot an AI with a HDMR sitting on top. Needless to say, it more than does its job. As for the XRS, part of me finds it extraordinarily difficult to step away from the bushnell line. The other part of me knows that the Kahles is worth every dime.
Clearly if the Bushnell XRS is worth every dime at 2000, i'd buy that over a scope worth every dime at 3000. Based on my requirements for a scope, that's all I need. However, I do wish there was a small illuminated X-hair on the HDMR. I don't care about the entire reticle, but one dot in the middle wouldn't hurt.
SO back to the "do I save a K and get the XRS? or do I get the Kahles?"
Sorry, not to thread jack or de-rail the discussion but which one in the Bushnell range is the new HDMR? Is it the HDMR? Or is it the DMR or ERS? Sorry, but LoneWolfUSMC threw me off with his response earlier about trying the LRS (HDMR Gen2).
I only ask b/c this is on my list of serious consideration for when I buy my FN SPR.
I only ask b/c this is on my list of serious consideration for when I buy my FN SPR.
HDMR= 3.5-21X50 w/ 5 mil turrets
New ERS= 3.5-21X50 w/ 10 mil turrets, ZS
New XRS= 4.5-30X50 w/ 10 mil turrets, ZS
New ERS= 3.5-21X50 w/ 10 mil turrets, ZS
New XRS= 4.5-30X50 w/ 10 mil turrets, ZS
I believe the new 3.5-21 is part of the ERS (extended range scope) line and the new 4.5-30 is XRS (extreme range scope), not the LRS (Long range scope). HDMR implies the (DMR) with the Horus reticle I believe, the original 5 mil rev version.
Given these are well made FFP MRAD scopes with lots of reticle travel, locking turrets and zero stop, fine glass, reticle, and warranty, all for under $2K, I'd have to say yes, they are worth it
What is this CA you guys speak of?
Not in reference to any scope in particular but its an optical term I don't understand and haven't yet been able to google with success.
Not in reference to any scope in particular but its an optical term I don't understand and haven't yet been able to google with success.
Chromatic Abberation. The color fringing around the edge of bright objects in your field of view. I'm sure someone will be along with a much more in-depth explanation.
What is this limited adjustment range you speak of?
The DMR has over 34 mils of elevation and windage (!) travel.
The XRS has a little less at 31 mils of elevation and 19 mils of windage.
Pitiful, I know.
Joe
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