Rifle Scopes Is the PST 4-16 glass really that bad?

[Beepy]

Well, as my other post said the SWFA SS 3-15 is backordered with no idea when it will be back, looking at other options is the Vortex PST, but the 4-16 is the range I want. I have never looked through one however. Are they really that bad? or is it just internet repeating one person's opinion.... Snipercentral's review said that it was on par with other scopes at this price point.... granted my other scope is a nightforce.....

How about the weaver? or is there another scope in this area?

 

[Hntelk]

I was going to buy one as well...was in cabelas and was looking thru one in the store...I was like meh... I asked to see a lower end scope vortex made to compare...guy handed me a diamondback....I couldn't believe the clarity difference...the diamondback was so much clearer and crisp then the Pst...so I told him that and he said I was not the first person to notice that difference...I asked for a different pst ( I am really trying to buy a PST and find an excuse to get it) he hands a different pst and same as the first, not so great to look thru.....to make sure the diamond was not a fluke, I asked for different diamondback to compare it...

Once again the DB looked great...I ended up not buying the PST I just shook my head that the low end scope was better visually then the PST....at least for my eyes.

Anyway that's my two cents for the day

 

[AvsFan]

I owned a Vortex PST and recently sold it to fund another project. Nothing wrong w/the clarity at all...the PST line of glass is the best bang for the buck in my humble opinion. Plus, the Vortex customer & warranty service is the best period. If you ever have a problem (even if you're not the original owner) they will repair or, replace no questions asked. They will even take care of a problem if you screwed it up yourself...can't beat that type of warranty service. Give Vortex a call & talk to them about your concerns prior to making a purchase - I bet after you talk to them, you will end up buying one.

my $0.02

 

[JonLSU]

I had a Vortex PST 4-16x50 with FFP. The glass was clear, no issues with mine whatsoever. It tracked great as well. For the money, its an awesome scope. I only sold it bc some bills came up and I sold the N6 that it was on. I have another 308 on order and just bought my first NF 3.5-15x50. Honestly the NF is alot brighter and looking through it, I can see why it costs $500+ more, but like I said the PST is a great scope for the $

 

[42769vette]

I had a Vortex PST 4-16x50 with FFP. The glass was clear, no issues with mine whatsoever.

x2, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the glass on any of my 3 4-16 FFP PST's. I also have a Diamondback, and while they look similar inside a building, once you get outside the diamondback is no comparison to the PST.

 

[Kiba]

I've only looked through 1 4-16PST but the glass was noticeably less clear and sharp than 2 Bushnell 3-12 FFPs and also 2 6-24 PSTs I had with me that day. I was looking at details on trees and also at a power pole 540Y away; the Bushnell and 6-24 PST's resolved much finer details on the insulators and crosspost than the 4-16 PST did, all the fine details were much blurrier and less defined through the 4-16.

The 4-16 glass wasn't bad enough to prevent making a shot with it but the clarity compared to the Bushy 3-12 and the 6-24 PST was disappointing.

Keep in mind that's only using a single 4-16 PST for a datapoint-- perhaps I had a bad one.

 

[i20rider]

You can't look at a wall indoor from 60 yards away you have to go out side.

 

[BCP]

I've only looked through 1 4-16PST but the glass was noticeably less clear and sharp than 2 Bushnell 3-12 FFPs and also 2 6-24 PSTs I had with me that day. I was looking at details on trees and also at a power pole 540Y away; the Bushnell and 6-24 PST's resolved much finer details on the insulators and crosspost than the 4-16 PST did, all the fine details were much blurrier and less defined through the 4-16.

The 4-16 glass wasn't bad enough to prevent making a shot with it but the clarity compared to the Bushy 3-12 and the 6-24 PST was disappointing.

Keep in mind that's only using a single 4-16 PST for a datapoint-- perhaps I had a bad one.

That's what I thought too. I'd still consider buying one for the right price though since it has a ton of nice features. It's light, zero stops, FFP, illuminated, really really nice setup for the price.

 

[sulcop96]

Glass is fine on my wife's and she shoots out to 1K with it all the time. I have had one as well but sold it off and run USO, NF ATACR and SS 5-20's now but the glass was never a issue. Tracks well and the shim zero stop feature worked OK. As for the Weaver, glass was very nice but mine was used on my duty rifle and had some issues with heavy field use. Had to go back to the shop several times and I just ended up getting rid of it. For a range gun I assume it would be just fine but don't think just because it has "tactical" in the name that it is a real tactical application scope.

Sully

 

[Beepy]

Well, I ended up going with a Bushnell Elite 3-12x44 with the illumniated G2DMR reticle.... Hope I made the right choice......

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

Well, I ended up going with a Bushnell Elite 3-12x44 with the illumniated G2DMR reticle.... Hope I made the right choice......

That's a very nice scope with great glass (I own two). However, if you have one with an illuminated G2DMR reticle, you have a unicorn... the G2 reticle is not illuminated, and the illuminated reticle is the BRT-MIL, or just plain mildot on older models. If I've missed something and there is actually an illuminated G2 reticle now, please post photos of the box end and the reticle lit up, I'd like to see it.

 

[bodywerks]

Well, I ended up going with a Bushnell Elite 3-12x44 with the illumniated G2DMR reticle.... Hope I made the right choice......

You did. The clarity is iffy on the 4-16 pst. I couldn't spot his clearly at even 100 yards with mine.

 

[demolitionman]

I spent about 2 hours looking over all the Vortex's at a lgs, they have a nice window setup right at their optics counter, so I could see out to about 600 yards. I really like all the Vortex line of scopes, EXCEPT the HS LR. I did not think they were good for my eye. Maybe they work for other folks, but I certainly didn't agree with any of the HS LR Vortex scopes. To me the PST was super nice, and the regular VIPER was extremely impressive as well...I didn't notice much difference in glass quality between the PST and the VIPER but the price difference is worth the quality turrets on the PST and mil/mil ffp ret. I WISH VORTEX sold the affordable VIPER with an moa/moa turret!! The PST Mil/mil turret with the EBR reticle was awesome...it is exactly what I want. I however, haven't looked through a Bushnell with the G2DMR reticle, but that seems close to the EBR of vortex's. I'm finally realizing why you guys spend so much money on glass and why reticles are so important. I kinda had one of those "duh" moments where I actually can visualize proper utilization of a reticle's layout to figure turret adjustments for missed shots without ever having to worry about distance, math, or conversions. Just look at the splash, see that its 2 mills on the reticle to the right and adjust. I kinda feel dumb that I never realized all this until I actually studied the reticles in person. This is all old hat stuff to you guys, but thanks for drilling this into us noobs heads, because I've been reading you all say it over and over and over and over, but tonight I finally believe you!

 

[elfster1234]

best bang for your buck with no questions asked replacement warranty lifetime transferable... I like my 4-16x50 ffp so much on my LMT that I purchased another one for my rock river arms bull barrel EOP varmint tack driver... Are they a 2k scope? No..... are they one hell of a deal for a $950 dollar FFP scope, hell yes!

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

Jay can attest to the fact that I pride myself in picking out flaws in glass. I do agree that every eye perceives things differently, but with that being said I find no difference or variance between the differen magnification ranges of PST rifle scopes.

If you do deside to pick one up, let us know. We're still running our SH promotion on PST's

 

[samnev]

I agree with Chris. I bought 2 PST's from Sport Optics and am quite pleased with their quality. Are they Nightforce quality, of course not. But as others have said a great scope for the $$$$.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

i've been shooting a 4-16 pst sincethey first came out, and I like mine, and I've really not seen a difference in the two

 

[2Shots]

I have had one since they were first released, I think for the money they are fine, nice reticle, glass is pretty good, zero stop, I have no problem recommending one. It's all in what money you have to spend, you can go as cheap or as expensive as you want. But in that price range they are a good choice.

 

[wheels]

My 4-16 PST was noticeably worse glass than my older non-PST viper.

 

[lennyo3034]

Guy had a 2.5-10 PST shooting at 100 yards. We could not spot hits on white paper with it.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

Guy had a 2.5-10 PST shooting at 100 yards. We could not spot hits on white paper with it.

The older SFP one with a 44mm objective, or the newer FFP one with 32mm objective? I've had both. I thought the SFP model was pretty bad at 10x. The FFP model is totally different, and at 10x its resolution compares very well with any scope I own, including a Nightforce NXS and two Sightron SIII's. I don't know how much of this is variation from one example to another, but I am very impressed with the FFP model after being very disappointed with the SFP model.

 

[lennyo3034]

It was the older 44mm model. I actually had my NF 2.5-10X32 that day and had to spot hits for him with it. Had no issues doing so. I don't have experience with the new FFP model.

 

[t0kie]

I had a Vortex PST 4-16x50 with FFP. The glass was clear, no issues with mine whatsoever. It tracked great as well. For the money, its an awesome scope. I only sold it bc some bills came up and I sold the N6 that it was on. I have another 308 on order and just bought my first NF 3.5-15x50. Honestly the NF is alot brighter and looking through it, I can see why it costs $500+ more, but like I said the PST is a great scope for the $

+1 on this. Clarity is the diff., but for the money it's the best bang for the buck.

 

[Genin]

Love my PST 4-16. It tracks amazingly well, holds zero, and has all the features I wanted for a great price. The glass on mine in great. I can see my hits on paper at 300 so yeah, the glass is good.

 

[42769vette]

It was the older 44mm model. I actually had my NF 2.5-10X32 that day and had to spot hits for him with it. Had no issues doing so. I don't have experience with the new FFP model.

So your telling me a 1500 dollar scope has better glass than a 600 dollar scope. Go figure.

 

[Enough Said]

To answer the O.P.'s question:

NO

 

[lennyo3034]

So your telling me a 1500 dollar scope has better glass than a 600 dollar scope. Go figure.

I was answering a question. Note I didn't mention the NF in my first post. Spotting holes at 100 does not exactly require top notch glass. That's why I wasn't impressed.

 

[Name Enough]

I have been reading on this site and thought the Viper PST would be a good choice so I ordered one up. Then I read this post. Well I guess we will see.

It seems as soon as I buy something I start to see negative feedback. I never saw negative feed back on the AAC SD6 until after I got mine. Opps my groups open up from .75 MOA to 2.70 MOA with my SD6.

 

[charger23]

I have been reading on this site and thought the Viper PST would be a good choice so I ordered one up. Then I read this post. Well I guess we will see.

It seems as soon as I buy something I start to see negative feedback. I never saw negative feed back on the AAC SD6 until after I got mine. Opps my groups open up from .75 MOA to 2.70 MOA with my SD6.

You are GTG. With the exception of possibly getting a lemon, which happens with x product, the PST line is great overall, for the money, etc. however you want to phrase it.

Your SDN6 likely doesn't lock up consistently, the last tooth doesn't engage because AAC can't get their mounts right. Check to see if it does or does not engage the last tooth. My bet, nope. Lots of info and threads on here about that subject though. I had to "time" both my SDN6 mounts myself. Now they shoot consistently.

 

[1slow01z71]

I'd really like the 4-16 for my 308 5r but it seems the feedback on them is all over the board. Kinda considering going with a bushnell as the 6-24 is a bit much for what I want. Ive got 5 vortex scopes and theyre all awesome. I recently ditched the 2.5-10x44 for the new ffp x32 and it is substantially better in clarity. Its about the same as my 6.5-20x44 viper pa. I love the pst lineup but just cant get comfortable on the 4-16 with all the bad reviews. It does seem that the newer 4-16s are better from the reviews I've read.

 

[Falsecrack]

best bang for your buck with no questions asked replacement warranty lifetime transferable... I like my 4-16x50 ffp so much on my LMT that I purchased another one for my rock river arms bull barrel EOP varmint tack driver... Are they a 2k scope? No..... are they one hell of a deal for a $950 dollar FFP scope, hell yes!

Elfster,

I think your post just sold me. I'm looking for an optic with which to shoot the tiniest groups out of (16" OBR 7.62), and your LMT has inspired me.

 

[elfster1234]

is it the best glass in the world? prob not but it is pretty damn good... it is IMO the best illuminated reticle FFP 4-16x scope you can get for the money. Stress the illuminated and FFP part of that statement.... Also, it is really really nice to have the illuminated reticle for dawn/dusk for deer hunting. I'm looking forward to your results my friend. You can't go wrong with an OBR... 7.62 AR will really give you a challenge to shoot sub-moa consistently and you're going to love it.

BTW, I'm rocking the larue lt158 mount. It is QD, but I don't think i'll purchase another QD mount again... Once I get a scope zero'd I hate taking them off and I'm a HUGE fan of the RTS offset iron sights. My LMT is damn near the same set up as the NZ / British DMR rifle. It is a great blend of a precision / battle-rifle set up.

Elfster,

I think your post just sold me. I'm looking for an optic with which to shoot the tiniest groups out of (16" OBR 7.62), and your LMT has inspired me.

 

[elfster1234]

BTW, opticsplanet can have really good deals... this coupon code might still work 10% off: 104DADS

$899 for the scope and if the 10% coupon actually works it would bring the price down to $810ish with free shipping. Pick your MOA or MIL flavor.

Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP Rifle scope FREE S&H PST-416F1-M, PST-416F1-A, VX-RS-4FFP-PST416F1M-DEMO. Vortex Rifle Scopes.

Elfster,

I think your post just sold me. I'm looking for an optic with which to shoot the tiniest groups out of (16" OBR 7.62), and your LMT has inspired me.

 

[elfster1234]

DUDE! I just tested it and it totally worked! price ends up being $809.10 !!! that is a sick deal! I would jump all over that shit. Just enter the coupon code as listed in my post!! NICE!! coupon code will pay for 1/2 of your mount! ive purchased many items from opticsplanet with no problems.



BTW, opticsplanet can have really good deals... this coupon code might still work 10% off: 104DADS

you enter the code on the purchase screen, Do you have a coupon?
Enter it here! section

$899 for the scope and if the 10% coupon actually works it would bring the price down to $810ish with free shipping. Pick your MOA or MIL flavor.

Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP Rifle scope FREE S&H PST-416F1-M, PST-416F1-A, VX-RS-4FFP-PST416F1M-DEMO. Vortex Rifle Scopes.

Elfster,

I think your post just sold me. I'm looking for an optic with which to shoot the tiniest groups out of (16" OBR 7.62), and your LMT has inspired me.

 

[elfster1234]

coupon code expires tomorrow 06/16/13 FYI!!

I see they have factory demo's for $779, but I think I would just purchase new.

Elfster,

I think your post just sold me. I'm looking for an optic with which to shoot the tiniest groups out of (16" OBR 7.62), and your LMT has inspired me.

 

[Falsecrack]

is it the best glass in the world? prob not but it is pretty damn good... it is IMO the best illuminated reticle FFP 4-16x scope you can get for the money. Stress the illuminated and FFP part of that statement.... Also, it is really really nice to have the illuminated reticle for dawn/dusk for deer hunting. I'm looking forward to your results my friend. You can't go wrong with an OBR... 7.62 AR will really give you a challenge to shoot sub-moa consistently and you're going to love it.

BTW, I'm rocking the larue lt158 mount. It is QD, but I don't think i'll purchase another QD mount again... Once I get a scope zero'd I hate taking them off and I'm a HUGE fan of the RTS offset iron sights. My LMT is damn near the same set up as the NZ / British DMR rifle. It is a great blend of a precision / battle-rifle set up.

Elfster,

Thanks for all the cool info. Yeah, my main glass is a USO 3.2-17x, but I'm wanting to pick up a usable optic for shooting groups at 100-200 yds, that doesn't break my wallet. I already have an LT-120 that I plan to mount it in. Thanks again, buddy.

 

[Desert_308]

sub·jec·tive (sb-jktv)
adj.
1.
a. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
b. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.

pick one and shoot.

 

[BCP]

I'd really like the 4-16 for my 308 5r but it seems the feedback on them is all over the board. Kinda considering going with a bushnell as the 6-24 is a bit much for what I want. Ive got 5 vortex scopes and theyre all awesome. I recently ditched the 2.5-10x44 for the new ffp x32 and it is substantially better in clarity. Its about the same as my 6.5-20x44 viper pa. I love the pst lineup but just cant get comfortable on the 4-16 with all the bad reviews. It does seem that the newer 4-16s are better from the reviews I've read.

Get the 6-24 FFP PST if you can swing it. I doubt you'll regret it. Order from Libertyoptics and tell him you heard about him on Sniper's Hide.

 

[42769vette]

BTW, opticsplanet can have really good deals... this coupon code might still work 10% off: 104DADS

$899 for the scope and if the 10% coupon actually works it would bring the price down to $810ish with free shipping. Pick your MOA or MIL flavor.

Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP Rifle scope FREE S&H PST-416F1-M, PST-416F1-A, VX-RS-4FFP-PST416F1M-DEMO. Vortex Rifle Scopes.

I fell for that trick once. It took me 8 months to get my pst. There are a ton of vendors who will match the price and ship in a few days, Optics Planet just isnt one of them.

 

[ntm]

Both of my 4-16 viper pst sfp had terrible glass. Very flat, and didn't resolve well. $400 would have been a fair price for one.
Bushnell 3-12 g2's replaced them, and are much better.
Looking through a zeiss conquest next to the 4-16pst in the same power range was like taking off a pair of hazy, dirty glasses. Price point was close to the same.
I've noticed that the 2.5-10x44 also seem to have that low grade glass.

Perhaps it's the sfp models that have the underwhelming glass ?

 

[fdkay]

Consider the Weaver 3-15 FFP.
It is truly the best bang for your buck in the price range.

 

[1slow01z71]

Get the 6-24 FFP PST if you can swing it. I doubt you'll regret it. Order from Libertyoptics and tell him you heard about him on Sniper's Hide.

6 on the low end is just too much for a gun thats going to see a lot of Texas hillcountry hunting. Just picked up the 2.5-10x32 for my 300blk ar which is awesome but for the 308 I'd like a bit more horsepower on the high end of the magnification range. Looks like one of the bushnells will be the ticket for the 308. I've got a 300WM 5r on order so I'll probably go with the pst 6-24 for it as it'll be my big woods gun for elk and seems to carry a pretty good reputation.

Both of my 4-16 viper pst sfp had terrible glass. Very flat, and didn't resolve well. $400 would have been a fair price for one.
Bushnell 3-12 g2's replaced them, and are much better.
Looking through a zeiss conquest next to the 4-16pst in the same power range was like taking off a pair of hazy, dirty glasses. Price point was close to the same.
I've noticed that the 2.5-10x44 also seem to have that low grade glass.

Perhaps it's the sfp models that have the underwhelming glass ?

It does seem most Iif not all conplaints I've read about the 4-16 have been sfp scopes. Anybody checked out a late model ffp 4-16?

 

[my human host]

I have the sfp moa versions of both the 4-16 and the 6-24.

I don't recall exactly what I paid for the 4-16, but I certainly don't regret buying it. The glass is a smidge behind the 6-24 in quality.

The 4-16 has had the turrets cranked in and out more times than I care to count and still tracks like a champ. The glass does make reading mirage a challenge. Still, it's more than adequate for casual shooting and blasting varmints.

 

[JaysonF]

I didn't like the pst glass and would want to save for a different scope or possibly the hd

 

[scudzuki]

I fell for that trick once. It took me 8 months to get my pst. There are a ton of vendors who will match the price and ship in a few days, Optics Planet just isnt one of them.

Optics Planet provides a link for every scope model to check stock.

I've ordered a bunch of times from them and they have always shipped exactly when they said they would.
Just relaying my experience.

Joe

 

[elfster1234]

they used to be really bad I think, but now you can click on a link to check available status... I've ordered insane amounts of stuff from optics planet without a single issue.... not saying it isn't possible to have an issue and I'm sure there are better places online to order from, but I've never had an issue and I'm sure other places you can order from can have the same issues also....

I fell for that trick once. It took me 8 months to get my pst. There are a ton of vendors who will match the price and ship in a few days, Optics Planet just isnt one of them.

 

[USACS]

It was the older 44mm model. I actually had my NF 2.5-10X32 that day and had to spot hits for him with it. Had no issues doing so. I don't have experience with the new FFP model.

My 2.5-10x44 PST SFP is the same way.

 

[elfster1234]

even i'll admit I've seen better glass in friend's scopes, but it really isn't that bad... need to stress the FFP, illuminated, lifetime, transferable, no questions asked warranty... I mean yeah, if you have the money get something better,,,, but if you want a variable scope FFP up to 16x with everything I just said above for around $900 dollars... come now! smack you! JK.... IF your goal IMO is small bug hole groups you better be rocking something up to 16x plus IMO....

and for $900 dollars I would give up a smidge (and come on now the glass is actually not that bad) for reliability... jesus, I just rocked this out with my semi-auto LMT MWS (not a bolt action mind you) with my vortex viper.... not too darn bad for a "shiity" glass scope .......

11 out of 12 5shot groups sub-moa at 100yards with different powder drops, and 4 out of 6 5shot groups sub-moa at 300yards, 85 out of 90 rounds sub-moa.... I would say this scope works damn good if you ask me! all shot today in a row 06/15/13.

100yards LMT MWS:

target entry#1:
40.8 varget = .678" group size
41.0 varget = .676" group size
41.2 varget = .632" group size (BEST GROUP TARGET ENTRY#1)
41.4 varget = .834" group size
41.6 varget = .836" group size
41.8 varget = .963" group size
group size average on target entry#1= .7698"

target entry#2:
42.0 varget = .954" group size
42.2 varget = .592" group size (BEST GROUP TARGET ENTRY#2)
42.4 varget = 1.075" group size
42.6 varget = .831" group size
42.8 varget = .866" group size
43.0 varget = .816" group size
group size average on target entry#2= .8557

300yards LMT MWS...
2.037 + 2.865 + 3.579 + 1.869 + 3.267 + 3.060 = 16.677 / 6groups = 2.7795 average (2.7795 / 3.141 = .8849MOA) //////////////////// Best group = 1.869 best group (1.869 / 3.141 = .595MOA)

rocking the 4-16x50 PST vortex viper FFP.... not the best glass in the world, but it works for me!

 

[22dasher]

Consider the Weaver 3-15 FFP.
It is truly the best bang for your buck in the price range.

I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more often...

 

[danish1911]

^^^^^ I just sold my 3-15 Weaver and it was liking pulling my teeth and agree with dasher. Very precise tracking, clear glass, and built like a softball chick. A PST took the place of the Weaver that was on my 308 since it was a 6-24 and am very pleased with the replacement. The PST was meant for my 243 but I got an 5.5-25 NF in an equipment trade so the PST went to the 308 and the Weaver was sold for a new stock. I have compared the NF and PST during the day and they are in the same range of clarity but I figure where the PST will fall behind is in the low light conditions. The PST is great scope (have a 1-4 on my three-gun rifle also) and would by another in a second...