Is there a brand of brake or a brake design I want to stay away from?

[RedRyder]

Don't know if this is the correct forum but here goes. I'm getting a Proof CF barrel and I'm thinking about a muzzle brake. It appears that there are several good models of brakes for sale. Is there one brand or one design that I want to stay away from? Either because it kicks up a lot of dirt or because it doesn't work all that well. I'm pretty sure they're all going to increase the sound signature. Correct me if I'm wrong. And no, I won't be getting a can.

Thanks for your responses.

 

[Mudlol]

Muzzle brakes are loud. I would highly recommended the Area 419 brake. Its probably the best one out at the moment.

 

[b6graham]

Muzzle brakes are loud. I would highly recommended the Area 419 brake. Its probably the best one out at the moment.

this is by far the most popular on here. tool less on and off. suppressor options. AND its super effective
PVA jet blast. zrodelta. are other options as well

i'd probably stay away from radial brakes. if you look at the 3 i mentioned you'll thee the similarities in design. it comes down to attaching to the rifle.

 

[RedRyder]

Just saw the video tutorial for attaching the 419. Sweet. The next question is - what affect does the brake have on the harmonics of the barrel? Will it affect POI?

 

[Mudlol]

Just saw the video tutorial for attaching the 419. Sweet. The next question is - what affect does the brake have on the harmonics of the barrel? Will it affect POI?

Depends on the barrel, muzzle brake and gunsmith. If you have the work done by a reputable gunsmith you shouldn’t have any problems.

 

[pineoak]

Focus on which specific MB to get, don't worry about which ones to avoid.

By doing #1, you'll cover #2.

If you focus on #2, you'll still not know which one to get.

 

[Maxduty]

I can't find the video now, but there was an amateur study of top ported muzzle brakes. The hypothesis was that top ports lend to increased force into the stock. Enough to crack it. I believe he actually cracked a stock during testing from barrel whip. The exaggerated up and down motion was eliminated by plugging the top vents. In any case, I'd call Proof for suggestions.

 

[hereinaz]

Some brakes have an angles portion on the side that directs gas at an angle up. The other directs it sideways.

I imagine if the balance is right, you won't get whip.

But, a carbon fiber barrel is not as stiff as a steel barrel! CF is stiffer per ounce. CF will move more, but it is tough stuff. Watch the video where he uses a barrel to smash a cinderblock and returns to zero.

I have used side directed ports no problem.

419 and the Bastard brakes are popular and effective.

 

[atxhorn4425]

What's the profile of the barrel, and what cartridge will it be launching? If you're shooting a straight profile CF barrel with a 6.5 creedmoor or similarly mild round, I wouldn't be worried about barrel whip. Light sendero profile with a .300 Win Mag, you may need to think about it a little harder.

 

[6gunner]

Take a look at the Heathen brake. It screws right on the barrel without an adapter. If you ever get a supressor you won't need to spend additional cash on a adapter for it like you do with the 419.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Holy Shit...TMI.

I put an Area 419 Hellfire on my Savage 10 FCP -SR in 6.5 CM and the recoil is diminished to virtually nothing and it's no louder than it ever was. No louder than my brothers Les Baer custom 5.56 AR. And it didn't crack the stock or change the Earth rotation. It did alter the POI a bit but that took 15 minutes and 5 rounds to adjust to .If you add a device to the gun the POI will change a bit.

Jesus. WTF?

VooDoo

 

[ifgator]

What does self timing mean? As in timing for harmonics or timing as in orientation like flutes on a barrel

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

What does self timing mean? As in timing for harmonics or timing as in orientation like flutes on a barrel

Orientation - timed so that the forces are vented laterally and back to suppress jump/recoil.

VooDoo

 

[SLG]

I have an APA Gen 2 Little bastard, very lightly used, that I'll sell for a very good price if you want to try the concept out a bit more cheaply. Works awesome and is easy to use.

 

[Grog11]

I got a JEC and really like it. Had to wait like, eight months or something for it, though.....

 

[Nik H]

Just saw the video tutorial for attaching the 419. Sweet. The next question is - what affect does the brake have on the harmonics of the barrel? Will it affect POI?

Like you I just bought a new PROOF CF barrel for my AI AT. It was new and never mounted and I bought it from another Hide member. It was threaded for a brake. Never used a brake before as the recoil from a 6.5 CM was never an issue. My other barrels (Bartlein) were not threaded.

I did a lot research and asked for opinions here since I had never used a brake previously. After many people chimed in, I settled and purchased an AREA 419 Hellfire brake. All I can say is WOW. It is incredibly well made and installation is a breeze. It certainly does tame recoil but more importantly it does reduce muzzle jump so getting back to target is easier.

I have shot the barrel with and without the brake. The barrel is a hammer. It has virtually no coldbore characteristics like normal metal barrels. POI is affected but not much. Precision is not affected in the least. I have data book entries for both brake and no brake configurations and the POI performance is very consistent.

Hope this helps

 

[Diver160651]

Since none seemed to mention what to stay away from..

If you shoot positional that includes prone on any field surface, stay away from any radial design. Side ports kick up enough dirt as it is.

 

[NateVA]

If you plan to shoot prone then probably stay away from radial brakes. Past that it's a personal preference balancing between recoil reduction and sound increase. I'm susceptible to flinching from concussion so I use an Insite Arms Heathen brake. The first port is 90 degrees and the other two are angled backwards, so it's the best of both worlds for me. My Insite is one of their aluminum brakes too, so it weighs about 1/3 of what an APA Little Bastard does if you care about that sort of thing.

I'll continue to use a Heathen brake until my TBAC suppressors finally arrive and then I'll exclusively shoot suppressed.

 

[USMC 308]

Proof used an APA Little Bastard brake when testing a barrel for accuracy issues. The installed brake was causing the problems.

The brake I have had best luck with is the JP Enterprises Standard Compensator Muzzle Brake. I have seen the least POI shift and the most consistent accuracy. The JP blew away the 2 self timing brakes that seem to be referenced most.
I like that it also lets me clean the crown easily so no caked on carbon deposits that I cannot reach or see.

Either have your smith install it flush so no jam nuts or crush washers are needed......or use the JP Jam Nut. Crush washers are bad, they can crush unevenly and end up not being concentric to the bore. That uneven pressure on the round as it exits is what causes inaccuracy.....from what I've read and what gunsmiths have told me.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...925-outside-diameter-threaded-end-steel-matte

 

[gnatmm]

+1 stay away of crush washers there are a ton of mb out there and my experience with some is that they range from wow to meh, they just can become a clusterfuck only with crush washers.

 

[RedRyder]

You guys are a wealth of useful information. The whole crush washer thing - I'd have never known about that.

If a barrel is giving good accurate results with a certain load, and a brake is installed POI will probably be effected. Is it possible to regain the lost accuracy by re-developing the load?

I think I had looked at that JP Enterprises brake a year or two ago and was impressed by it. I'll take another look at it. RIght now, the frontrunners are the 419 and the JP Enterprises.

 

[Maxduty]

You guys are a wealth of useful information. The whole crush washer thing - I'd have never known about that.

If a barrel is giving good accurate results with a certain load, and a brake is installed POI will probably be effected. Is it possible to regain the lost accuracy by re-developing the load?

I think I had looked at that JP Enterprises brake a year or two ago and was impressed by it. I'll take another look at it. RIght now, the frontrunners are the 419 and the JP Enterprises.

The little load development that I've done with hunting rifles indicates that by adding a brake, the POI shifts, but my groups didn't open up.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Save your money and hearing and buy a suppressor. Recoil and noise reduction are a win/win.

 

[pineoak]

^^^THIS^^^

 

[10xk9]

I have several muzzle brakes. My favorite is the APA Gen 2 lil bastard. Simple , affordable $160, and very effective. Changed the POI one MOA at 100 yards, my GAP 6.5 shoots even better with it on!

 

[noisewaterphd]

The BFF has become my go-to. It's like a self-timing JEC that you can actually get. I also like the Area 419 Sidewinder. Little Bastards work pretty good but I was always blowing shit in my face, especially off railroad tie barricades for some reason. Lots of good brakes, even without top holes, are venting gas upward through some mechanism. Top holes, dimensions of the port on top of the brake vs bottom, etc.. The barrel whip controversy is silliness unless it is a really poorly designed brake. I've tried about 20 different brakes in the last few years and I'd go BFF, or 419 sidewinder.

 

[noisewaterphd]

Oh, the Hollands Radial Baffle QD brake is pretty great too, but not self timing. Not a radial brake, just radial baffles.

 

[DOA]

If you plan on shooting prone, stay away from the Vais brakes. For bench only shooting they are great but shooting prone they will kick up dirt and it will not make for a pleasant experience. Had the JEC brake. Nice brake but you will wait forever, if you get it at all. APA lil bastard is good but found the Area 419 brake much better. Have not tried the JP brake so I can't comment on that.

 

[TheGerman]

You want to be nowhere to either side of the brake on a M107

 

[SLG]

I've read that the Heathen comes in Aluminum, but can't find that anywhere. Still being made, or did it fail in some way?

 

[NateVA]

I've read that the Heathen comes in Aluminum, but can't find that anywhere. Still being made, or did it fail in some way?

You may have to call and ask, as I'm not sure. The 6.5 Guys use Heathens right now and they mentioned the aluminum option in their video too. I personally use an aluminum one and it weighs 1.6oz vs roughly 4.5oz for the steel version.

 

[SLG]

You may have to call and ask, as I'm not sure. The 6.5 Guys use Heathens right now and they mentioned the aluminum option in their video too. I personally use an aluminum one and it weighs 1.6oz vs roughly 4.5oz for the steel version.

Thanks! Any issues using the alu?

 

[NateVA]

Thanks! Any issues using the alu?

Nope it has worked perfectly for me so far.

 

[Rangerbob33]

i picked up an Area 419 Hellfire a few weeks ago and got a chance to shoot it this last weekend. I put in on a Howa Mini action in 6.5 Grendel, I an very happy with it. The machining is very nice and it was a breeze to install.

 

[nexusfire]

419 is the cats ass. John Addis should win some type of award for it.

 

[Rthur]

I can't find the video now, but there was an amateur study of top ported muzzle brakes. The hypothesis was that top ports lend to increased force into the stock. Enough to crack it. I believe he actually cracked a stock during testing from barrel whip. The exaggerated up and down motion was eliminated by plugging the top vents. In any case, I'd call Proof for suggestions.

If the stock is cracking from a muzzle brake it was a POS to start with.

R