Rifle Scopes Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

C

coyoteduster

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Minuteman
Jun 24, 2010
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0
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#1
I have spent countless hours searching and looking at posts on scopes and I am left with this question. What is the point of diminishing returns on an optic? I am looking for a high quality scope for my 300 sendero and I am stuck on this. Should I go with a 700-1000 scope like A sightron or ziess or a higher end leupold? Or is that a stop gap to a 1500-2000 scope? I want a good scope that I will be happy with for a long time, but I don't want to spend an extra 1000 if I am not going to see that big of a difference.

Right now my sendero has a nikon buckmaster on it and I always knew that was temporary. I am just insure what my next move is.

I use my rifle as a double duty hunting and target rifle and as of now I 99% of my shots are 400 yards or less

Thanks for any thoughts.
 
#3
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

I've been through the Leupolds, always wanted a NF...bought one years back and am very satisfied, my rig(s) are dual purpose too...good glass def comes with a price and I believe you get what you pay for. Vortex is pretty awesome and I like it a lot. I have the 6-24 PST. It was my first FFP scope and me likes it a lot too, would not hesitate to buy another Vortex and surely would buy another NF.

My $.02
 
#4
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

There are plenty of good scopes in the 700 to 1000 range, the difference will be in how much you use the scope. If you are a hard core shooter and use extensively the features of the scope, you may benefit from a higher dollar optic. I shoot quite a bit, and have never felt under-glassed with several sub-1000 dollar scopes. But, I LOVE and appreciate my 1000 plus scopes more.that's the way it should be right?
 
#5
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

I think that is a good point about how much I shoot. I would like to have a better answer but once a month is good for me. I am sure that a $1000 dollar scope is better than I am.
 
#6
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

$1250 for the Bushnell HDMR in the group buy section. Small package for hunting but a good power range and reticle for longer shooting and the price is in a good area. Not too much more than what you were looking to spend.
 
#7
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now my sendero has a nikon buckmaster on it and I always knew that was temporary.</div></div>
I'm not trying to talk you out of a new scope, but where is the buckmaster falling short that you think you need a new scope. If we had a better idea what upgrades you wanted, might help with scope recommendations.
 
#8
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

To be honest the itch for a new scope has to do with adding another gun the stable. I just picked up a savage in 17hmr to use as a trainer, and I think the buckmaster would work great for that gun. So I could buy another buckmaster or other $300 scope, or I could use this as an opportunity to upgrade.
 
#9
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

I'd wager to say that Nightforce, or rather anything more expensive than... is about there you begin the point of diminishing returns.
 
#10
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

there is some good scopes in the 1k range but i need to know what distance you need under 400yards but at a range or hunting? Do you shoot at 400 a lot? There seems to be a good bit of 1-4x but if you want more like 2-8 or 4-16x. just depends.
 
#11
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

the reason I started hanging around here was because my personal goal is to be confident enough to shoot deer out to 400 yards. Right now I don't think I would go past 300 on a deer. I am just not that consistent past that. So I guess the answer is I am hunting in the sub 300 yard range and but trying to learn to get hits at 400. I currently have a 4x14 buckmaster but I wonder if a good 3x9 would net similar results.
 
#13
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

How hard you are on your gear is when it starts to pay. Take your rig with a SS 3x9 lean it against a tree. (If it has a good base and rings) It slips and hits the ground you will be able to pick it up and make a hit on target no question.

Yes you can shoot a lesser scope and make hits at 400yards. Put it in the field, trip and fall the good scope will hold and the lesser one will not. That is what you a paying for.

You mentioned a 3x9, the SS 3x9 is what popped in my head, good scope good price point. My .02
 
#14
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coyoteduster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the reason I started hanging around here was because my personal goal is to be confident enough to shoot deer out to 400 yards. Right now I don't think I would go past 300 on a deer. I am just not that consistent past that. So I guess the answer is I am hunting in the sub 300 yard range and but trying to learn to get hits at 400. I currently have a 4x14 buckmaster but I wonder if a good 3x9 would net similar results.</div></div>

My SS 3x9 replaced a leupold 4.5x14 and I feel it was an upgrade in durability and clarity. I feel better with the SS at any range than going back to the leupold. I passed up a shot at 720yards this year because of a tricky cross wind but the fact that I only had 9x on the top end had nothing to do with it.
 
#15
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd wager to say that Nightforce, or rather anything more expensive than... is about there you begin the point of diminishing returns.</div></div>

This is my sense of things too.
 
#16
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

I shoot alot of 12x12 plate from 100-1mile. I have only felt like I was outshot due to glass one time with my 16xSS and is why I am awaiting a us optic st-10. If I was only shooting to 400 I would have definitely stayed with the SS line. The difference that I see between SS and USO is clarity at long range 900+ yards. That's when high dollar glass pulls away a bit over some of the others. The 3-9SS really is the ideal scope for your purposes. The only upgrade I'd do from that if I was you would be the USO 1.5-10 unless the NF 3-10 was ffp. But I believe both of those higher end scopes are not needed for your purpose.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
#17
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keep spending 'til your wife sells your truck. </div></div>

If you live that long.
 
#18
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coyoteduster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have spent countless hours searching and looking at posts on scopes and I am left with this question. What is the point of diminishing returns on an optic? I am looking for a high quality scope for my 300 sendero and I am stuck on this. Should I go with a 700-1000 scope like A sightron or ziess or a higher end leupold? Or is that a stop gap to a 1500-2000 scope? I want a good scope that I will be happy with for a long time, but I don't want to spend an extra 1000 if I am not going to see that big of a difference.

Right now my sendero has a nikon buckmaster on it and I always knew that was temporary. I am just insure what my next move is.

I use my rifle as a double duty hunting and target rifle and as of now I 99% of my shots are 400 yards or less

Thanks for any thoughts. </div></div>


IMO..by now you realize there are steps in quality or at least features for a given price. I'd draw the line at about the $600-$900 price for a new optic if you want a tactical style scope with some desirable features. For hunting,a scope with 3-4x power on the bottom is more suitable in case you ever have to make a close or running shot.

If price is a concern then buy used good quality optics that have a warranty. Vortex immediately comes to mind. If something is wrong with the scope the worst thing that'l happen is you'll have to pay some shipping but you might even end up with a brand new scope being sent back to you.

The better ones I've seen for the money are.

Bushnell 3-12 for FFP with matching turrets and reticle or their other 4200 series scopes. The main problem with the other 4200 SFP scopes is with moa turrets and mildot reticle like with your Bushmaster.

SS3-9 FFP which is a good tough simple scope and has a good warranty.

Vortex PST's. FFP with matching reticle and turrets.

Sightron S111's. SFP but can be had with matching reticle and turrets.

IOR. They stand behind there products but might be a tad over what you'd want to spend.

The scope I'm really impressed with for the money is the Horus HDMR 3.5-21x50 which is the same scope that Rob mentioned. That is a great deal on the group buy and is easily up there in the NF quality level with excellent glass.

I've been bit a few times with the cheaper scopes and had a few friends get bit too. Waist of time and money if you ask me. So I won't recommend any cheap variable scope. In fact a friends cheap scope bit the dust during a match 2 days ago.

I think the stop gap is at the HDMR or SS5-20 for FFP or NF for SFP. Past that your gonna spend nearly twice as much more for the high end optics.
 
#19
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

at 300-400 $ you can have the main features in a scope AO, 50mm ob. lens, reasonable quality glass, 4 x adjustment range on magnification, and reasonable durability from nikon, bushnell elite + others; beyond this the incremental increases of quality/ features vs price are so difficult to judge and personally subjective that I would have to say this is a point of diminishing returns
 
#21
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

Thanks for a ton of opinions. I think I am leaning toward either the ss3x9 or a vortex pst think for my purposes the next jump is not worth it for my skill and shooting range. There seems to be a lot of good choices at the 500-800 range and I think that is were I am going to focus.
 
#22
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

Everyone will have a price point at which they feel that the more money they spend is not worth what is gained and that price point differs for everyone of us.

I have everything from cheap to expensive, let's see I've got a tasco, a nikon monarch, a SWFA 5-20, a Night Force NSX, and a USO 3.2-17 T-Pal.
Out of all of them I feel like my USO is the best scope overall, robustness, clarity, mil/mil, FFP, EREK knob but for the money it should be.
I don't see me selling it any time soon to replace with lesser scopes but I don't really see the need to own all USOs either.
Depending on what I intend to do with the rifle that any perticular optic is going on will determine what optic I put on it.
For instance I don't see a need to put a high end tactical style scope, like my USO, on my 7lb carry around hunting gun, right now it wears the Nikon monarch and I may replace it with a lower end Leupold eventually.
But for my .300WSM that will sling 208 Amaxs out to 1000+yds that gets the higher end glass, cause I feel it benifits.

In the end it all depends on preference and the application for you to determine what you "Need" for the job.

Also you can get away with less than what you feel you "need" alot of the time, depending on what you need that optic to do of course. If you need it to survive deing dropped on a concrete floor and still hold up your going to pay for that, no going around that one.
 
#23
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

I think for me it comes down to this. I want to spend enough to get a quality scope that i will be happy with for a long time. I am not an f clas guy nore will I ever be. It seems silly to spend $1000 more than i need to, if I can put that money elsewhere. Everybody has that point were they weigh the cost benefits the question is where is that point. I think for me that point is shaping up to be in the sub $1000 category.
 
#24
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smschulz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
sinister said:
Keep spending 'til your wife sells your truck. </div></div>

I have a really nice truck, so I am not sure I like that choice
Click to expand...
 
#26
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

My vote is going to be for Nightforce. In my opinion, you won't find a better optic for the money. I've owned three of the Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50 with my current model having the NP-R1 reticle and each time I look through it, I can't help smiling.

If you keep an eye on the Exchange, you can pick them up pretty regularly for hundreds less than retail. As an added bonus, the higher grade glass you buy, the more it will retain its value and you'll be able to get most of your investment out of it when or if you decide to upgrade to something a little pricier.

I've read a lot of good things about the Vortex PST and the Super Sniper HD so you should definitely keep an eye out for those as well.
 
#27
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

Just got a Vortex PST 6x24 and it has great features! It is a new name around my shooting circle? My friends with NF"s looked down the scope and were impressed! One good friend to the point of going to buy one.
A above poster said the if something goes wrong you end up with a new one? That is exactly what happened to me. I bought it used off the Hide and something happened in shipment? Called them and they said "send it in we will either fix or send you a new one" and they did just that!!!
How do you beat that???
 
#28
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

My .02 is that if you can get everything you want at a lower price then do it.

If a lower price point cannot satisfy your needs then you need to either save or find what you want for less. I would really recomend not settling for something.
 
#29
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

It all depends on what you want to do with the scope, e.g. in terms of range, light conditions. There are some great values, such as the SS 3-9, and there are also scopes that make shooting a real pleasure and perhaps easier/more accurate. I'm really liking the Premier LT 3-15X50 but then I've chosen to keep the number of firearms I own down and don't spend much on other hobbies.
 
#30
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

If you are shooting once a month, then the high point for SFP is the Sightron SIII.

If you are going FFP, then the Bushnell HDMR with the GAP reticle is almost impossible to beat. It may have Nightforce toughness at a lower price and better glass.

For an established brand with frequent shooting, then Nightforce marks the optimal point.
 
#31
Re: Is there a point of diminishing returns on optics?

I have a Nightforce and a Vortex Razor. Both are in the same price range (give or take a little) I can honestly say that I love both for differnt reasons. Just with that the Nightfoce 5.5-22 was FFP like my Vortex Razor. The Razor really has impressed me ALOT. But that is just my two cents!
 
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