Is there a run on reloading supplies and if so how bad? Here is my situation.I just bought a Savage 10 FCP-SR(308) Friday as my entry into LR shooting. I bought/ordered it Friday only due to the panic(it was normal price). I am deploying to Afghanistan soon and will return in Sept of 2013 I will do very little LR shooting between then and now. When I get back I plan to go full retard shooting and hunting(trips out west and whatnot). Should I buy everything now if I can get it or just wait? Money is not an issue.
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Is there a run on reloading supplies?
- Thread starter pizzamanny
- Start date
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
I think the panic is more on things people think will be banned. By September 2014 the reloading industry should be caught back up and doing fine. Last time it was small pistol primers that got hard to find for a while.
My opinion is you will be fine.
I think the panic is more on things people think will be banned. By September 2014 the reloading industry should be caught back up and doing fine. Last time it was small pistol primers that got hard to find for a while.
My opinion is you will be fine.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Those around me that lived through the last debacle say get supplies now. Especially primers and powder. This time the EPA is also involved trying to regulate lead.
Those around me that lived through the last debacle say get supplies now. Especially primers and powder. This time the EPA is also involved trying to regulate lead.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
According to the number of "Out of Stock" annotations on Powder Valley's site, the run is in full swing. I received an email from Widner's stating they were running about three weeks behind on shipping.
According to the number of "Out of Stock" annotations on Powder Valley's site, the run is in full swing. I received an email from Widner's stating they were running about three weeks behind on shipping.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Locally the run hasn't hit yet. Went to my favorite store this past friday and he still had plenty of primers and powder. By the time you get back everything will probably return to normal. I'm just looking back at recent history...1994 and 2008 everything went nuts took about a year for stuff to get back to normal
Locally the run hasn't hit yet. Went to my favorite store this past friday and he still had plenty of primers and powder. By the time you get back everything will probably return to normal. I'm just looking back at recent history...1994 and 2008 everything went nuts took about a year for stuff to get back to normal
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
With the handwriting that has been on the wall for years now, I cannot understand why anyone who takes their shooting serious has not laid in a good supply of reloading gear.
Every time shit like this happens people start bitching about not being able to find what they need. Really? How many times does it need to happen before they learn.
With the handwriting that has been on the wall for years now, I cannot understand why anyone who takes their shooting serious has not laid in a good supply of reloading gear.
Every time shit like this happens people start bitching about not being able to find what they need. Really? How many times does it need to happen before they learn.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Learned my lesson during the Clinton administration. Placed an order early November. PV was shipping in 2-3 days. A week later it was about 10 days.
By February I expect to see primers listed on Gunbroker at $100 plus...and they will sell.
Learned my lesson during the Clinton administration. Placed an order early November. PV was shipping in 2-3 days. A week later it was about 10 days.
By February I expect to see primers listed on Gunbroker at $100 plus...and they will sell.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By February I expect to see primers listed on Gunbroker at $100 plus...and they will sell. </div></div>
And the guys selling them are the ones responsible for the "run".
Opportunists (parasites) that are capitalizing on political fears. It happens with just about any commodity that's subject to political forces.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By February I expect to see primers listed on Gunbroker at $100 plus...and they will sell. </div></div>
And the guys selling them are the ones responsible for the "run".
Opportunists (parasites) that are capitalizing on political fears. It happens with just about any commodity that's subject to political forces.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
If you stock up on anything before you ship out it should be primers and powder. The one thing most evident to me after the last time this happened is that prices for those two items never came back to the pre-'08 prices.
Thank you for your service to our country as well!
If you stock up on anything before you ship out it should be primers and powder. The one thing most evident to me after the last time this happened is that prices for those two items never came back to the pre-'08 prices.
Thank you for your service to our country as well!
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
greedy greedy greeeeedddy people I say shoudns't be allowed to reload,they justs keep us good folks from doing what we love.Pus this year as for 4 years ago has a lot to do with it.Will just have to save up and when time comes to buy then buy.I know the prices will be a little more but what can you do,as some said already some will sale a 1000 primers for 100 bucks.
I sometimes think they do it just to piss some of us off,but what can we do,they had the money when the product was instock,we didn't.
greedy greedy greeeeedddy people I say shoudns't be allowed to reload,they justs keep us good folks from doing what we love.Pus this year as for 4 years ago has a lot to do with it.Will just have to save up and when time comes to buy then buy.I know the prices will be a little more but what can you do,as some said already some will sale a 1000 primers for 100 bucks.
I sometimes think they do it just to piss some of us off,but what can we do,they had the money when the product was instock,we didn't.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Powder Valley hasn't raised their prices on HODGDON powder, but they are sold out on most of the popular powders.
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
Powder Valley hasn't raised their prices on HODGDON powder, but they are sold out on most of the popular powders.
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
The run on reloading supplies isn't anything like on AR related guns, mags etc but basic powder and primers are definitely hard to find right now. I can't find large jugs of RL-15 or Varget anywhere.
The run on reloading supplies isn't anything like on AR related guns, mags etc but basic powder and primers are definitely hard to find right now. I can't find large jugs of RL-15 or Varget anywhere.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Been looking locally for h4350 with no luck, drove an hour to Gander and the powder cabinet was bare except for 2lbs of h4350 and 1lb of 4831..took it all and a couple thou of primers
Been looking locally for h4350 with no luck, drove an hour to Gander and the powder cabinet was bare except for 2lbs of h4350 and 1lb of 4831..took it all and a couple thou of primers
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Bought powder and primers from a local source on Friday.
Was advised by the counter guy to get all I wanted right then, as things were going fast and I wouldn't like the prices on Monday when the replacement inventory was supposed to arrive.
So I did. At that time everything was regular price, but their supplier had gone up to draconian levels.
Bought powder and primers from a local source on Friday.
Was advised by the counter guy to get all I wanted right then, as things were going fast and I wouldn't like the prices on Monday when the replacement inventory was supposed to arrive.
So I did. At that time everything was regular price, but their supplier had gone up to draconian levels.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Yes, I have just scoured the internets and found powder(imr4064), small rifle primers(match was all they had left), and CCI 7.62 mill primers. I had to use 3 different vendors and had to look hard and long to find what I did. If you want something get it now.
Yes, I have just scoured the internets and found powder(imr4064), small rifle primers(match was all they had left), and CCI 7.62 mill primers. I had to use 3 different vendors and had to look hard and long to find what I did. If you want something get it now.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
I don't think reloading supplies are on the chopping block at this moment but that doesn't mean people aren't stocking up. My local shops look like a tornado went through, everything is gone.
I don't think reloading supplies are on the chopping block at this moment but that doesn't mean people aren't stocking up. My local shops look like a tornado went through, everything is gone.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Hi pizzamanny,
A friend of mine worked a table at the York Gun Show in PA this weekend, and he told me absolutely everything was selling like <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">mad</span></span>: ARs, bolt guns, handguns, custom builds, parts, ammo, brass, scopes--freakin' everything. He flat out could not keep up with the traffic. So yes, I suspect there's a run.
Yours,
David
Hi pizzamanny,
A friend of mine worked a table at the York Gun Show in PA this weekend, and he told me absolutely everything was selling like <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">mad</span></span>: ARs, bolt guns, handguns, custom builds, parts, ammo, brass, scopes--freakin' everything. He flat out could not keep up with the traffic. So yes, I suspect there's a run.
Yours,
David
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Here in north Texas it's slowing drying up.
I went to Cabela's on saturday to get some factory .308 Win for a vacation I have coming up next week... they were completely out. So, I figured the rock chucker under my bed will get some use. They had like 3 die sets (which I bought one) for 308 win. They were completely out of ALL CCI primers at Cabela's and Bass Pro. Thankfully after the election I placed an order for 2000 primers when I hadn't ever reloaded a single round. Cabela's was completely out of Varget and some other popular Hodgdon powders. Bass Pro Shop did have about 10 pounds of Varget, I bought one, told the other guy on the isle that Cabela's was out, and that if they used it, be mindful. As for cases, Cabela's was completely out of .308 except for one box of Hornady match, which I happily purchased. 30 Cal 175g SMK's were all gone everywhere I went, both stores did have a good stock of AMAX's though.
The LGS's around here only carry what powder/bullet/case that the owner reloads. Which I found out, they don't like Varget for some reason. AR-15's are on the endangered species list at the moment.
Here in north Texas it's slowing drying up.
I went to Cabela's on saturday to get some factory .308 Win for a vacation I have coming up next week... they were completely out. So, I figured the rock chucker under my bed will get some use. They had like 3 die sets (which I bought one) for 308 win. They were completely out of ALL CCI primers at Cabela's and Bass Pro. Thankfully after the election I placed an order for 2000 primers when I hadn't ever reloaded a single round. Cabela's was completely out of Varget and some other popular Hodgdon powders. Bass Pro Shop did have about 10 pounds of Varget, I bought one, told the other guy on the isle that Cabela's was out, and that if they used it, be mindful. As for cases, Cabela's was completely out of .308 except for one box of Hornady match, which I happily purchased. 30 Cal 175g SMK's were all gone everywhere I went, both stores did have a good stock of AMAX's though.
The LGS's around here only carry what powder/bullet/case that the owner reloads. Which I found out, they don't like Varget for some reason. AR-15's are on the endangered species list at the moment.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Couldnt hurt to get a 8lb'r of Varget and a few thousand primers. This way you will at least have it when you get back. Last time around, primers where hard to find.
Couldnt hurt to get a 8lb'r of Varget and a few thousand primers. This way you will at least have it when you get back. Last time around, primers where hard to find.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Not by me.
My current supplies are up to date, with no glaring deficiencies, but their amounts are no greater than they were a year or so back.
I did my inventory assessment and purchasing in September. For now, if anything, I will be conserving what I have, and not running wild in the handloading component aisles.
Greg
Not by me.
My current supplies are up to date, with no glaring deficiencies, but their amounts are no greater than they were a year or so back.
I did my inventory assessment and purchasing in September. For now, if anything, I will be conserving what I have, and not running wild in the handloading component aisles.
Greg
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think they may out of stock due to panic.
Everything will be fine after 6 months.</div></div>
I think that's exactly right.
Gun owners and would-be owners are freaking out <span style="font-style: italic">en masse</span>, but there just is no indication that reloading supplies are targeted for any legislation. The ARs definitely are "in the crosshairs," but that's it.
Still, when have we as Americans ever passed up a good opportunity to overreact, right? Mebbe if we keep pushing it, we can get cans of Spam and baked beans to sell out. Yippee!
Yours,
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think they may out of stock due to panic.
Everything will be fine after 6 months.</div></div>
I think that's exactly right.
Gun owners and would-be owners are freaking out <span style="font-style: italic">en masse</span>, but there just is no indication that reloading supplies are targeted for any legislation. The ARs definitely are "in the crosshairs," but that's it.
Still, when have we as Americans ever passed up a good opportunity to overreact, right? Mebbe if we keep pushing it, we can get cans of Spam and baked beans to sell out. Yippee!
Yours,
David
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By February I expect to see primers listed on Gunbroker at $100 plus...and they will sell. </div></div>
And the guys selling them are the ones responsible for the "run".
Opportunists (parasites) that are capitalizing on political fears. It happens with just about any commodity that's subject to political forces.
</div></div>
So called "parasites" exist because people are too ignorant to be well stocked before hand and pay the inflated prices. If people weren't willing to pay insane prices the problem would fix itself.
It's not as if this is a first time event. Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it. Sound familiar?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By February I expect to see primers listed on Gunbroker at $100 plus...and they will sell. </div></div>
And the guys selling them are the ones responsible for the "run".
Opportunists (parasites) that are capitalizing on political fears. It happens with just about any commodity that's subject to political forces.
</div></div>
So called "parasites" exist because people are too ignorant to be well stocked before hand and pay the inflated prices. If people weren't willing to pay insane prices the problem would fix itself.
It's not as if this is a first time event. Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it. Sound familiar?
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So called "parasites" exist because people are too ignorant to be well stocked before hand and pay the inflated prices. If people weren't willing to pay insane prices the problem would fix itself.
It's not as if this is a first time event. Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it. Sound familiar? </div></div>
Gouging is gouging. Gougers are not exonerated by the fact that there exist some suckers for them to gouge. Think about this for a minute: do we exonerate the telemarketing scammers because the only people they manage to exploit are suckers? I don't, at any rate.
Yours,
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So called "parasites" exist because people are too ignorant to be well stocked before hand and pay the inflated prices. If people weren't willing to pay insane prices the problem would fix itself.
It's not as if this is a first time event. Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it. Sound familiar? </div></div>
Gouging is gouging. Gougers are not exonerated by the fact that there exist some suckers for them to gouge. Think about this for a minute: do we exonerate the telemarketing scammers because the only people they manage to exploit are suckers? I don't, at any rate.
Yours,
David
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general.
That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general. </div></div>
FINALLY, someone else who isn't blameing everyone but themselves!!!! So damn sick and tired of the bitching and whinning because prices went up. Well, isn't that a flippin surprise, never happened before!!!! How many times do some of you guys need to get kicked in the nuts before it soaks in????
"I don't have the money", yea, live off my income!!!! Change your priorities and don't buy that new flippin phone or other stupid electronic shit, make a grilled cheese at home instead of eating out several times a week and buy affordable clothes instead of the designer shit that you think makes you look like a stud!!! In other words buy a few extra pds of powder and a couple thousand extra primers etc instead of enough to load 100rds. I live 100 miles from where any decent sporting goods store so have bought primers 5K at a time and 8lb jugs of powder and bullets in sleeves since 75 when I started loading. I would prefer to have items for my hobby when I want them vs. trying to impress someone with a new truck, boat, 4 wheeler, a house in the right part of town and all that happy horseshit. Either prepare by making changes to you lifestyle or blame yourself for your mistakes and not others. Damn, getting tired of the whinning and bitching about gougers, hoarders etc!!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general. </div></div>
FINALLY, someone else who isn't blameing everyone but themselves!!!! So damn sick and tired of the bitching and whinning because prices went up. Well, isn't that a flippin surprise, never happened before!!!! How many times do some of you guys need to get kicked in the nuts before it soaks in????
"I don't have the money", yea, live off my income!!!! Change your priorities and don't buy that new flippin phone or other stupid electronic shit, make a grilled cheese at home instead of eating out several times a week and buy affordable clothes instead of the designer shit that you think makes you look like a stud!!! In other words buy a few extra pds of powder and a couple thousand extra primers etc instead of enough to load 100rds. I live 100 miles from where any decent sporting goods store so have bought primers 5K at a time and 8lb jugs of powder and bullets in sleeves since 75 when I started loading. I would prefer to have items for my hobby when I want them vs. trying to impress someone with a new truck, boat, 4 wheeler, a house in the right part of town and all that happy horseshit. Either prepare by making changes to you lifestyle or blame yourself for your mistakes and not others. Damn, getting tired of the whinning and bitching about gougers, hoarders etc!!!!!
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gougers are not exonerated by the fact that there exist some suckers for them to gouge. Think about this for a minute: do we exonerate the telemarketing scammers because the only people they manage to exploit are suckers?</div></div>
Poor analogy. If I put a 5K price on a 2K rifle and you want to buy it, buyer beware. If I approach you and use lies and deceit to sell something, that is fraud.
Theives, scammers, gougers? No. Opportunists? Absolutely.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gougers are not exonerated by the fact that there exist some suckers for them to gouge. Think about this for a minute: do we exonerate the telemarketing scammers because the only people they manage to exploit are suckers?</div></div>
Poor analogy. If I put a 5K price on a 2K rifle and you want to buy it, buyer beware. If I approach you and use lies and deceit to sell something, that is fraud.
Theives, scammers, gougers? No. Opportunists? Absolutely.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general. </div></div>
FINALLY, someone else who isn't blameing everyone but themselves!!!! So damn sick and tired of the bitching and whinning because prices went up. Well, isn't that a flippin surprise, never happened before!!!! How many times do some of you guys need to get kicked in the nuts before it soaks in????
"I don't have the money", yea, live off my income!!!! Change your priorities and don't buy that new flippin phone or other stupid electronic shit, make a grilled cheese at home instead of eating out several times a week and buy affordable clothes instead of the designer shit that you think makes you look like a stud!!! In other words buy a few extra pds of powder and a couple thousand extra primers etc instead of enough to load 100rds. I live 100 miles from where any decent sporting goods store so have bought primers 5K at a time and 8lb jugs of powder and bullets in sleeves since 75 when I started loading. I would prefer to have items for my hobby when I want them vs. trying to impress someone with a new truck, boat, 4 wheeler, a house in the right part of town and all that happy horseshit. Either prepare by making changes to you lifestyle or blame yourself for your mistakes and not others. Damn, getting tired of the whinning and bitching about gougers, hoarders etc!!!!! </div></div>
Not gonna make many friends using that logic and fact BS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general. </div></div>
FINALLY, someone else who isn't blameing everyone but themselves!!!! So damn sick and tired of the bitching and whinning because prices went up. Well, isn't that a flippin surprise, never happened before!!!! How many times do some of you guys need to get kicked in the nuts before it soaks in????
"I don't have the money", yea, live off my income!!!! Change your priorities and don't buy that new flippin phone or other stupid electronic shit, make a grilled cheese at home instead of eating out several times a week and buy affordable clothes instead of the designer shit that you think makes you look like a stud!!! In other words buy a few extra pds of powder and a couple thousand extra primers etc instead of enough to load 100rds. I live 100 miles from where any decent sporting goods store so have bought primers 5K at a time and 8lb jugs of powder and bullets in sleeves since 75 when I started loading. I would prefer to have items for my hobby when I want them vs. trying to impress someone with a new truck, boat, 4 wheeler, a house in the right part of town and all that happy horseshit. Either prepare by making changes to you lifestyle or blame yourself for your mistakes and not others. Damn, getting tired of the whinning and bitching about gougers, hoarders etc!!!!! </div></div>
Not gonna make many friends using that logic and fact BS.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Hi mavrick10_2000,
No worries--I take no offense at this, as I generally try to keep my ego and my emotions out of forum stuff.
Now, I do <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> think there is any straw man in my argument. Mine was an argument by analogy, plain and simple. You may contend, and may even rightly contend, that the analogy does not hold (that is to be debated, assuming you're willing), but I don't <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> I ever put words in your mouth or exaggerated your position.
I suppose you may be right that my analogy is imperfect, but I still maintain my position. The better analogy, I guess, is with price gouging at gas pumps when oil prices spike. That practice, by the way, is flatly illegal. I rather suspect it's illegal in this context, too, but I'd have to research that to make sure, and in any case I quite doubt there'd be any enforcement. I also am convinced it is flatly immoral and am not impressed with the quasi-Objectivist habit of perpetrators blaming their victims for being so incautious or foolish. Fools are indeed to be blamed for their foolishness, but those who exploit them are no less to be blamed for their exploitation.
My general principle here, and one that I hold in almost all contexts and will hold to my last day, is that <span style="text-decoration: underline">nothing</span> ever morally exonerates those who exploit the needs, fears or emotions of others to soak them for as much money as they think they can get. This country may not have many laws against such behavior, but God certainly does. And I'm not getting this from being a "whiner," btw; I'm getting it from Aquinas.
Anyway, we are now far off onto a tangent that probably does not help this thread, but if you'd like to continue the conversation over PM, I'm totally game.
Yours,
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - <span style="font-weight: bold">not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.</span>
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general. </div></div>
Hi EddieNFL,
Yeah, you know, I think you're right--it was a bad analogy, plus I unintentionally depicted the behavior as something much more extreme than I think it is, so here I must plead <span style="font-style: italic">mea culpa</span>. I think the gas pump price gouging analogy is much closer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Poor analogy. If I put a 5K price on a 2K rifle and you want to buy it, buyer beware. If I approach you and use lies and deceit to sell something, that is fraud.
Theives, scammers, gougers? No. Opportunists? Absolutely.</div></div>
Hi mavrick10_2000,
No worries--I take no offense at this, as I generally try to keep my ego and my emotions out of forum stuff.
Now, I do <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> think there is any straw man in my argument. Mine was an argument by analogy, plain and simple. You may contend, and may even rightly contend, that the analogy does not hold (that is to be debated, assuming you're willing), but I don't <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> I ever put words in your mouth or exaggerated your position.
I suppose you may be right that my analogy is imperfect, but I still maintain my position. The better analogy, I guess, is with price gouging at gas pumps when oil prices spike. That practice, by the way, is flatly illegal. I rather suspect it's illegal in this context, too, but I'd have to research that to make sure, and in any case I quite doubt there'd be any enforcement. I also am convinced it is flatly immoral and am not impressed with the quasi-Objectivist habit of perpetrators blaming their victims for being so incautious or foolish. Fools are indeed to be blamed for their foolishness, but those who exploit them are no less to be blamed for their exploitation.
My general principle here, and one that I hold in almost all contexts and will hold to my last day, is that <span style="text-decoration: underline">nothing</span> ever morally exonerates those who exploit the needs, fears or emotions of others to soak them for as much money as they think they can get. This country may not have many laws against such behavior, but God certainly does. And I'm not getting this from being a "whiner," btw; I'm getting it from Aquinas.
Anyway, we are now far off onto a tangent that probably does not help this thread, but if you'd like to continue the conversation over PM, I'm totally game.
Yours,
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That straw man won't hold water. Telemarketing scams are completely different. This crap has been happening since '94. If one hasn't caught on by now there's not much one can do to help folks see the light. And the information regarding this pattern of pricing has been out there since then as well.
If you don't know the normal price of something and are willing to pay in excess of $60 for one PMAG well then you were willing to pay it - for whatever reason. IMO this is foolish and continues to feed those who you hold contempt for.
If insane pricing irritates you, make mental note of it not to do business with those who "gouge" and cut the whining and hand wringing - <span style="font-weight: bold">not directed at you, but in general the mob mentality comes off as whiny.</span>
Hey here's an idea, prioritize things in your life, buy those items you feel you "need" when they are less expensive (a year or more before any election, not during any natural or man made disaster etc, etc)
Life's hard. It's even harder when your stupid and/or unprepared. I find this applies to life in general. </div></div>
Hi EddieNFL,
Yeah, you know, I think you're right--it was a bad analogy, plus I unintentionally depicted the behavior as something much more extreme than I think it is, so here I must plead <span style="font-style: italic">mea culpa</span>. I think the gas pump price gouging analogy is much closer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Poor analogy. If I put a 5K price on a 2K rifle and you want to buy it, buyer beware. If I approach you and use lies and deceit to sell something, that is fraud.
Theives, scammers, gougers? No. Opportunists? Absolutely.</div></div>
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Here's another viewpoint.
Back around '05 the gulf coast had a rash of hurricanes. I read an article about a fellow from up north arrested for selling generators. Seems he had the idea to rent a truck, buy a bunch of generators and resell to folks without power. I don't recall the numbers, but he bought at retail and doubled the price. Someone decided that was unfair and contacted the authorities. He was arrested and his stock confiscated.
RESULT: LEOs were taken away from more important duties, a bunch of generators wound up at a police auction and the folks that wanted generators went without.
I understand life sustaining necessities, but if you're not happy with the price of firearms, reloading components or generators, DON'T BUY THEM!
Here's another viewpoint.
Back around '05 the gulf coast had a rash of hurricanes. I read an article about a fellow from up north arrested for selling generators. Seems he had the idea to rent a truck, buy a bunch of generators and resell to folks without power. I don't recall the numbers, but he bought at retail and doubled the price. Someone decided that was unfair and contacted the authorities. He was arrested and his stock confiscated.
RESULT: LEOs were taken away from more important duties, a bunch of generators wound up at a police auction and the folks that wanted generators went without.
I understand life sustaining necessities, but if you're not happy with the price of firearms, reloading components or generators, DON'T BUY THEM!
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Yep got my order(s) in a few weeks/months ago before the madness.
10K BR-2's
10K 210-M's
8lb kegs of 6 different powders for .223 and .308
20,000 + bullets in various .223
5,000 + bullets in various .308
A couple months prior to that, I bought 20K CCI-41 and 20K CCI-400 which covers all my .223 and 9mm loading needs.
I figured once it looked like the left was going to re-elect O'bummer, I better start stocking up. It was painful (financially) which is why I spread it out over 4 orders and a few months, but it was a well executed plan from where I sit now.
To me it is "better to be looking at it.... than looking for it"
Yep got my order(s) in a few weeks/months ago before the madness.
10K BR-2's
10K 210-M's
8lb kegs of 6 different powders for .223 and .308
20,000 + bullets in various .223
5,000 + bullets in various .308
A couple months prior to that, I bought 20K CCI-41 and 20K CCI-400 which covers all my .223 and 9mm loading needs.
I figured once it looked like the left was going to re-elect O'bummer, I better start stocking up. It was painful (financially) which is why I spread it out over 4 orders and a few months, but it was a well executed plan from where I sit now.
To me it is "better to be looking at it.... than looking for it"
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
The same people who call others 'gougers' wouldn't hesitate to sell a house for $125,000 even though they only paid $80,000 for it and lived in it for six years. Fair market value applies across the board
The same people who call others 'gougers' wouldn't hesitate to sell a house for $125,000 even though they only paid $80,000 for it and lived in it for six years. Fair market value applies across the board
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The same people who call others 'gougers' wouldn't hesitate to sell a house for $125,000 even though they only paid $80,000 for it and lived in it for six years. Fair market value applies across the board </div></div>
I don't see the correlation of a house apprciating 6%-8% a year to selling pmags at 400%-700% more within days of the Conn shootings.
This crap wasn't brought on by the election either. Anyone who ordered, or walked into a store and bought qauntities of goods at retail to resell at huge profits are gougers, it's plain and simple.
And calling people stupid for not being stocked up, I honestly didn't know on the 13th that some fuck was going start the biggest shitstorm of the new century, the very next day.
I might have to buy Berger bullets next fall, but I'm stocked for 2 years of shooting, so just like ol SDwhirlydipshit, I'm a regular EF Hutton of reloading component buying.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The same people who call others 'gougers' wouldn't hesitate to sell a house for $125,000 even though they only paid $80,000 for it and lived in it for six years. Fair market value applies across the board </div></div>
I don't see the correlation of a house apprciating 6%-8% a year to selling pmags at 400%-700% more within days of the Conn shootings.
This crap wasn't brought on by the election either. Anyone who ordered, or walked into a store and bought qauntities of goods at retail to resell at huge profits are gougers, it's plain and simple.
And calling people stupid for not being stocked up, I honestly didn't know on the 13th that some fuck was going start the biggest shitstorm of the new century, the very next day.
I might have to buy Berger bullets next fall, but I'm stocked for 2 years of shooting, so just like ol SDwhirlydipshit, I'm a regular EF Hutton of reloading component buying.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boogaloo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep got my order(s) in a few weeks/months ago before the madness.
</div></div>
Yep. Placed an order the day after the election.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boogaloo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep got my order(s) in a few weeks/months ago before the madness.
</div></div>
Yep. Placed an order the day after the election.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The same people who call others 'gougers' wouldn't hesitate to sell a house for $125,000 even though they only paid $80,000 for it and lived in it for six years. Fair market value applies across the board </div></div>
I don't see the correlation of a house apprciating 6%-8% a year to selling pmags at 400%-700% more within days of the Conn shootings.
This crap wasn't brought on by the election either. Anyone who ordered, or walked into a store and bought qauntities of goods at retail to resell at huge profits are gougers, it's plain and simple.
And calling people stupid for not being stocked up, I honestly didn't know on the 13th that some fuck was going start the biggest shitstorm of the new century, the very next day.
I might have to buy Berger bullets next fall, but I'm stocked for 2 years of shooting, so just like ol SDwhirlydipshit, I'm a regular EF Hutton of reloading component buying.
</div></div>
Apparently making fun of someones user name and swearing must really boost your lil man ego huh??? An asset to Gillette and WY I must say! I am honored to have made you feel important for the day and like you 'really' do make the world a better place!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The same people who call others 'gougers' wouldn't hesitate to sell a house for $125,000 even though they only paid $80,000 for it and lived in it for six years. Fair market value applies across the board </div></div>
I don't see the correlation of a house apprciating 6%-8% a year to selling pmags at 400%-700% more within days of the Conn shootings.
This crap wasn't brought on by the election either. Anyone who ordered, or walked into a store and bought qauntities of goods at retail to resell at huge profits are gougers, it's plain and simple.
And calling people stupid for not being stocked up, I honestly didn't know on the 13th that some fuck was going start the biggest shitstorm of the new century, the very next day.
I might have to buy Berger bullets next fall, but I'm stocked for 2 years of shooting, so just like ol SDwhirlydipshit, I'm a regular EF Hutton of reloading component buying.
</div></div>
Apparently making fun of someones user name and swearing must really boost your lil man ego huh??? An asset to Gillette and WY I must say! I am honored to have made you feel important for the day and like you 'really' do make the world a better place!
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Reloading supplies, AR's,and mags are DISCRETIONARY purchase's. How many AR's,mags, or reloading supplies do you need to feel comfortable? Figure that out, buy what you feel you need and ride this kind of crap out.
Hell we all saw this 4 years ago and it took a full year for things to calm down. How could it come as such a big surprise to so many.
Reloading supplies, AR's,and mags are DISCRETIONARY purchase's. How many AR's,mags, or reloading supplies do you need to feel comfortable? Figure that out, buy what you feel you need and ride this kind of crap out.
Hell we all saw this 4 years ago and it took a full year for things to calm down. How could it come as such a big surprise to so many.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
Hi EddieNFL,
Now <span style="text-decoration: underline">this</span>, I think, is a very good set of points that you make. First, you're surely right that any regulations in the marketplace will, per the law of unintended consequences, bring at least some harm to those very people the regulations are meant to help; that is almost always true. Of course, the same law applies in the converse situation, though: removing all such restrictions also will bring harm to them. So our only serious question here is, <span style="font-style: italic">which</span> course of action will bring the most good to the most people with the least inadvertent harm? I still say a few modest, well-placed laws that'll keep gougers nervous are best, but it surely is a case-by-case deal.
Second, I think you're also right that there's an important difference between price gouging on necessities and doing it with luxuries like loading supplies. Now, I don't think gouging is acceptable even with luxuries, but it is a <span style="font-style: italic">lesser</span> moral crime, perhaps more akin to ticket scalping than to gasoline prices.
Others' appeals to fair market value don't move me yet, though, as the whole question at issue here is "what determines what's 'fair' and what isn't?" To say, without any supporting argument, that the marketplace does it is to beg the question.
Anyway, back onto the original topic (and I do apologize to those who are annoyed by this whole tangent that I've created): man, I cannot find more Varget <span style="text-decoration: underline">anywhere</span> now. In retrospect, I'm glad I stocked up on it heavily in the summer. I rather wish I'd done the same with RL15 and RL17.
Merry Christmas, all. I'm with family in upstate NY, and Santa managed to bring us a legitimately white Christmas this morning.
Yours,
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's another viewpoint.
Back around '05 the gulf coast had a rash of hurricanes. I read an article about a fellow from up north arrested for selling generators. Seems he had the idea to rent a truck, buy a bunch of generators and resell to folks without power. I don't recall the numbers, but he bought at retail and doubled the price. Someone decided that was unfair and contacted the authorities. He was arrested and his stock confiscated.
RESULT: LEOs were taken away from more important duties, a bunch of generators wound up at a police auction and the folks that wanted generators went without.
I understand life sustaining necessities, but if you're not happy with the price of firearms, reloading components or generators, DON'T BUY THEM!</div></div>
Hi EddieNFL,
Now <span style="text-decoration: underline">this</span>, I think, is a very good set of points that you make. First, you're surely right that any regulations in the marketplace will, per the law of unintended consequences, bring at least some harm to those very people the regulations are meant to help; that is almost always true. Of course, the same law applies in the converse situation, though: removing all such restrictions also will bring harm to them. So our only serious question here is, <span style="font-style: italic">which</span> course of action will bring the most good to the most people with the least inadvertent harm? I still say a few modest, well-placed laws that'll keep gougers nervous are best, but it surely is a case-by-case deal.
Second, I think you're also right that there's an important difference between price gouging on necessities and doing it with luxuries like loading supplies. Now, I don't think gouging is acceptable even with luxuries, but it is a <span style="font-style: italic">lesser</span> moral crime, perhaps more akin to ticket scalping than to gasoline prices.
Others' appeals to fair market value don't move me yet, though, as the whole question at issue here is "what determines what's 'fair' and what isn't?" To say, without any supporting argument, that the marketplace does it is to beg the question.
Anyway, back onto the original topic (and I do apologize to those who are annoyed by this whole tangent that I've created): man, I cannot find more Varget <span style="text-decoration: underline">anywhere</span> now. In retrospect, I'm glad I stocked up on it heavily in the summer. I rather wish I'd done the same with RL15 and RL17.
Merry Christmas, all. I'm with family in upstate NY, and Santa managed to bring us a legitimately white Christmas this morning.
Yours,
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's another viewpoint.
Back around '05 the gulf coast had a rash of hurricanes. I read an article about a fellow from up north arrested for selling generators. Seems he had the idea to rent a truck, buy a bunch of generators and resell to folks without power. I don't recall the numbers, but he bought at retail and doubled the price. Someone decided that was unfair and contacted the authorities. He was arrested and his stock confiscated.
RESULT: LEOs were taken away from more important duties, a bunch of generators wound up at a police auction and the folks that wanted generators went without.
I understand life sustaining necessities, but if you're not happy with the price of firearms, reloading components or generators, DON'T BUY THEM!</div></div>
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, I don't think gouging is acceptable even with luxuries, but it is a lesser moral crime, perhaps more akin to ticket scalping than to gasoline prices.</div></div>
Morality and legality aren't always connected.
This may not go over well, but...
<span style="text-decoration: underline">IF</span> I decided to sell some of my stash of primers, powder, magazines, etc, I would post on gunbroker and similar sites and sell to the highest bidder. Does this make me guilty of a moral crime? Every bidder has the opportunity to look at retail prices (and the Out of Stock annotations) and either bid or tell me to get bent. No one is twisting anyone's arm, no one needs my primers to get on with life.
The only reason I would do so would be if I feel on hard times...so, if you tried to beat me down on the price while I needed the money for little Tim's operation would that make you guilty of a lesser moral crime?
To summarize: I think a retailer can sell his product what whatever price someone is willing to pay. During the last shortage I had placed an order for primers (went backorder, of course, but I had learned to stay ahead of the game). While I waited (five months), I noticed a few vendors had limited stock, but were ridiculously priced. The vendor I order from contacted me and asked if I still want the order as the price had increased from $18 to $20 per K.
I remember those vendors with the stupid prices and avoid them. But if I were desperate enough...
Some folks sound as if they have a constitutionally protected right buy at low prices. Remember, it takes two to make a gouging.
P.S. If a friend needed primers I would give him what he needed to get by.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, I don't think gouging is acceptable even with luxuries, but it is a lesser moral crime, perhaps more akin to ticket scalping than to gasoline prices.</div></div>
Morality and legality aren't always connected.
This may not go over well, but...
<span style="text-decoration: underline">IF</span> I decided to sell some of my stash of primers, powder, magazines, etc, I would post on gunbroker and similar sites and sell to the highest bidder. Does this make me guilty of a moral crime? Every bidder has the opportunity to look at retail prices (and the Out of Stock annotations) and either bid or tell me to get bent. No one is twisting anyone's arm, no one needs my primers to get on with life.
The only reason I would do so would be if I feel on hard times...so, if you tried to beat me down on the price while I needed the money for little Tim's operation would that make you guilty of a lesser moral crime?
To summarize: I think a retailer can sell his product what whatever price someone is willing to pay. During the last shortage I had placed an order for primers (went backorder, of course, but I had learned to stay ahead of the game). While I waited (five months), I noticed a few vendors had limited stock, but were ridiculously priced. The vendor I order from contacted me and asked if I still want the order as the price had increased from $18 to $20 per K.
I remember those vendors with the stupid prices and avoid them. But if I were desperate enough...
Some folks sound as if they have a constitutionally protected right buy at low prices. Remember, it takes two to make a gouging.
P.S. If a friend needed primers I would give him what he needed to get by.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Morality and legality aren't always connected.</div></div>
Of course not; that's why I specifically said I regard gouging as a moral crime, as it often is not a legal one. What's more, there are many circumstances under which making immoral behavior illegal is itself a very bad thing to do, as with lies and infidelity. I think gouging is wrong, but I don't think it ought <span style="text-decoration: underline">always</span> to be forbidden--just sometimes, especially where I rationally expect the benefits to substantially outweigh the costs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may not go over well, but...</div></div>
Nothin' doin'. I make a conscious point of at least trying not to get personal or emotional in these debates.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="text-decoration: underline">IF</span> I decided to sell some of my stash of primers, powder, magazines, etc, I would post on gunbroker and similar sites and sell to the highest bidder. Does this make me guilty of a moral crime? Every bidder has the opportunity to look at retail prices (and the Out of Stock annotations) and either bid or tell me to get bent. No one is twisting anyone's arm, no one needs my primers to get on with life.</div></div>
I think there's a false equivalence here between running an auction and price gouging. I have to run now, but we can return to this more over PM if you want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only reason I would do so would be if I feel on hard times...so, if you tried to beat me down on the price while I needed the money for little Tim's operation would that make you guilty of a lesser moral crime?</div></div>
If I did it knowing your circumstances? Yes, I think it would. IMO it takes a bit of a bastard to do that to someone. You see, I judge these things by the way we treat each other and by what our motives are in doing so. If I follow anyone in ethics, it's Kant (and Aquinas secondarily).
Yours,
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Morality and legality aren't always connected.</div></div>
Of course not; that's why I specifically said I regard gouging as a moral crime, as it often is not a legal one. What's more, there are many circumstances under which making immoral behavior illegal is itself a very bad thing to do, as with lies and infidelity. I think gouging is wrong, but I don't think it ought <span style="text-decoration: underline">always</span> to be forbidden--just sometimes, especially where I rationally expect the benefits to substantially outweigh the costs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may not go over well, but...</div></div>
Nothin' doin'. I make a conscious point of at least trying not to get personal or emotional in these debates.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="text-decoration: underline">IF</span> I decided to sell some of my stash of primers, powder, magazines, etc, I would post on gunbroker and similar sites and sell to the highest bidder. Does this make me guilty of a moral crime? Every bidder has the opportunity to look at retail prices (and the Out of Stock annotations) and either bid or tell me to get bent. No one is twisting anyone's arm, no one needs my primers to get on with life.</div></div>
I think there's a false equivalence here between running an auction and price gouging. I have to run now, but we can return to this more over PM if you want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only reason I would do so would be if I feel on hard times...so, if you tried to beat me down on the price while I needed the money for little Tim's operation would that make you guilty of a lesser moral crime?</div></div>
If I did it knowing your circumstances? Yes, I think it would. IMO it takes a bit of a bastard to do that to someone. You see, I judge these things by the way we treat each other and by what our motives are in doing so. If I follow anyone in ethics, it's Kant (and Aquinas secondarily).
Yours,
David
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there's a false equivalence here between running an auction and price gouging.</div></div>
I see no difference if the product is on the shelf and you agree to the marked price.
Merry Christmas!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there's a false equivalence here between running an auction and price gouging.</div></div>
I see no difference if the product is on the shelf and you agree to the marked price.
Merry Christmas!
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
There is no such thing as gouging.
If I own it and you want it, you pay my price or the next guy will.
If you own it and I want it, I pay your price or the next guy will.
Simple supply and demand and the foundation of the most successful economic system in the history of the world.
There is no such thing as gouging.
If I own it and you want it, you pay my price or the next guy will.
If you own it and I want it, I pay your price or the next guy will.
Simple supply and demand and the foundation of the most successful economic system in the history of the world.
Re: Is there a run on reloading supplies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: greentimber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simple supply and demand and the foundation of the most successful economic system in the history of the world. </div></div>
And do you in every case equate successfulness/efficiency with moral goodness (or at least permissibility)? I don't. Suppose I'm a very successful and efficient bank robber, for instance. And for that matter, by what standards--moral or non-moral--are we going to judge success or failure here? This is not a simple question and I say it deserves something better than any of the simple answers.
-David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: greentimber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simple supply and demand and the foundation of the most successful economic system in the history of the world. </div></div>
And do you in every case equate successfulness/efficiency with moral goodness (or at least permissibility)? I don't. Suppose I'm a very successful and efficient bank robber, for instance. And for that matter, by what standards--moral or non-moral--are we going to judge success or failure here? This is not a simple question and I say it deserves something better than any of the simple answers.
-David
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