Is there an SR-25 vs. SCAR-20 thread?

[TheHorta]

I just picked-up my first SR-25 ACC (brand new from FFL). I'd like to scoop-up a SCAR-20 as well, since PSA has them for $4K, which is a great price. That said, I've been on a brutal COVID-induced buying spree since I've been sequestered at home with nothing else to do, and I like to shoot my guns. Would I just be wasting my money on the SCAR since I assume the SR-25 will be my steady girlfriend for the foreseeable future? Or does the new FN give the SR a run for its money?

 

[sleeplz]

If you have the money, dont be a bitch and buy what you want. Why let internet people tell you what to do, is this how you want your mom to remember her son?

 

[theLBC]

yes

KAC SR25 ECR/M110 or FNH Scar 20s?

Alright guys, Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be...

www.snipershide.com

 

[theLBC]

if you are sensitive to recoil and/or want to push out to 1500, wait for the 6.5CM version, out in august (I heard anyway)

Gun Review: FN SCAR 20S Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor - The Truth About Guns

FN-USA has re-released last year’s SCAR 20S in 6.5 Creedmoor, and it’s perfect. The new SCAR 20S is the same gun, with the same trigger, stock, upper, lower, rails, finish, everything as the gun they released last year, just in a different chambering with a different barrel assembly. It’s the...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[TheHorta]

if you are sensitive to recoil and/or want to push out to 1500, wait for the 6.5CM version, out in august (I heard anyway)

Gun Review: FN SCAR 20S Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor - The Truth About Guns

FN-USA has re-released last year’s SCAR 20S in 6.5 Creedmoor, and it’s perfect. The new SCAR 20S is the same gun, with the same trigger, stock, upper, lower, rails, finish, everything as the gun they released last year, just in a different chambering with a different barrel assembly. It’s the...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Recoil doesn’t bother me. Not much interest in 6.5CM on my end. I top-out at 800m, and even that’s extremely rare.

I think I’m going to take Sleeplz sage advice. Can’t have momma thinking she raised a douchenozzle.

 

[theLBC]

Recoil doesn’t bother me. Not much interest in 6.5CM on my end. I top-out at 800m, and even that’s extremely rare.

I think I’m going to take Sleeplz sage advice. Can’t have momma thinking she raised a douchenozzle.

nice!

/the Scar 20S is superior.

 

[Kir]

Have you tried the Search box first? Before you asked the question...

 

[GreenJavelin]

Do it. So dope.

 

[Strykervet]

$3500 on Gunbroker, go there. One for $3499 "buy it now" when I got mine. Well, it would've been $3200 but the seller shilled it up to $3500 when he realized he was gonna wind up selling for $3200. Can't prove it but I'm pretty goddamn sure. Anyway, that's the same price I can get it from Quantico for with .mil discount. $4k is what the 6.5 goes for and it comes in black or four or five shades of FDE or whatever.

The rifles are apples and oranges and also apples and apples. The SR25 is a DI cut rifle semi auto sniper rifle, probably the best, a good combination of accuracy without giving up critical reliability. Mk20 IMO is the best DMR rifle ever made --long stroke piston, chrome lined CHF barrel. SR25 is a subMOA rifle, Mk20 is a 1.5MOA rifle, or at least that's the guarantee or whatever. FWIW, HK only guarantees their shit for 1.5. So SR is slightly less robust and slightly more accurate and MK20 is the other way around.

I couldn't get a straight answer either because everyone here gets emotional over their purchases. I wanted to expand the non-AR side of things so I got it anyway and now I know for myself. Because I have both.

Yes, it would be redundant. The real world roles are so similar it doesn't matter. Same, but at same time, different. I hope that makes sense.

I have the APC, so no chrome, cut rifling. You have the ACC, chromed cut rifling right? IMO those two rifles are a little more matched but it's up to you.

The QDC can KAC makes for those rifles is the titties, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. But I think the can for the SCAR (their on their third one now BTW) is shit (first one) unknown (second one) and overpriced (third one) so I have nothing to say there, still figuring out what I wanna do myself.

I'm an OG SDM instructor and if had my choice back in the day and knowing what I know now, I'd have preferred the SR25 based on what I like, but I think I'd have had to choose the Mk20 based on ability --a DMR has to be able to lay lead down and make that precision shot now and again. (What we got were rack M4's, Acogs, a bipod and a modified M14 sling!)

If nothing else you can be like me and have BOTH of the best and at least not be sitting on nothing but goddamn AR's. And be one of the ones that "gets it" when it comes to the difference between these two rifles.

But if it ever comes down to SCAR16 and a KAC M4, you'd be busted in the fucking head to choose the FN. My .02.

 

[TheHorta]

$3500 on Gunbroker, go there. One for $3499 "buy it now" when I got mine. Well, it would've been $3200 but the seller shilled it up to $3500 when he realized he was gonna wind up selling for $3200. Can't prove it but I'm pretty goddamn sure. Anyway, that's the same price I can get it from Quantico for with .mil discount. $4k is what the 6.5 goes for and it comes in black or four or five shades of FDE or whatever.

The rifles are apples and oranges and also apples and apples. The SR25 is a DI cut rifle semi auto sniper rifle, probably the best, a good combination of accuracy without giving up critical reliability. Mk20 IMO is the best DMR rifle ever made --long stroke piston, chrome lined CHF barrel. SR25 is a subMOA rifle, Mk20 is a 1.5MOA rifle, or at least that's the guarantee or whatever. FWIW, HK only guarantees their shit for 1.5. So SR is slightly less robust and slightly more accurate and MK20 is the other way around.

I couldn't get a straight answer either because everyone here gets emotional over their purchases. I wanted to expand the non-AR side of things so I got it anyway and now I know for myself. Because I have both.

Yes, it would be redundant. The real world roles are so similar it doesn't matter. Same, but at same time, different. I hope that makes sense.

I have the APC, so no chrome, cut rifling. You have the ACC, chromed cut rifling right? IMO those two rifles are a little more matched but it's up to you.

The QDC can KAC makes for those rifles is the titties, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. But I think the can for the SCAR (their on their third one now BTW) is shit (first one) unknown (second one) and overpriced (third one) so I have nothing to say there, still figuring out what I wanna do myself.

I'm an OG SDM instructor and if had my choice back in the day and knowing what I know now, I'd have preferred the SR25 based on what I like, but I think I'd have had to choose the Mk20 based on ability --a DMR has to be able to lay lead down and make that precision shot now and again. (What we got were rack M4's, Acogs, a bipod and a modified M14 sling!)

If nothing else you can be like me and have BOTH of the best and at least not be sitting on nothing but goddamn AR's. And be one of the ones that "gets it" when it comes to the difference between these two rifles.

But if it ever comes down to SCAR16 and a KAC M4, you'd be busted in the fucking head to choose the FN. My .02.

I went and got both. Just picked up the SR, the 20 arrives next week. Paid a little extra for the 20 from my local FFL because they’ve gone out of their way for me multiple times for $20 and I feel like I keep short-changing them, so I paid $3700. Big whoop.

Both rifles will have the new Razor Gen III 1-10x mounted via Scalarworks LEAP 07.

I don’t have any KAC cans, so I guess I’ll need to bite down and get a couple. I wish their QDC Mount was available so I could adapt it to my existing Form-1’s, just so I wouldn’t have to wait.

 

[GreenJavelin]

Surefire SOCOM 762 RC2 cans work perfect of the 20S as well, fyi.

 

[EIGTM1651]

Surefire SOCOM 762 RC2 cans work perfect of the 20S as well, fyi.

Agreed

 

[Strykervet]

I finally got to pick it up yesterday. Yeah, it's a different beast for sure. Reminds me a lot of the FAL actually and it seems to me they started from there.

I got both and I'm keeping both. I MIGHT get a 6.5 conversion for ONE of them later on, we'll see. If I do that though, 90% chance it'll be for the SR25. That weapon in my mind is more suited for precision and the 6.5 KAC uppers have cut rifle 22" bbl.'s. But we'll see. I may not ever adopt 6.5CM, I may just go right around that one. SR25 has a kind of quality to it the Mk20 simply doesn't have. The Mk20 is obviously a much easier and cheaper weapon to manufacture and were it not for KAC having decades of experience and tooling in place, it'd cost 3x the Mk20 I imagine. Original SR25 was a $10,000 rifle IIRC and it wasn't as nice as it is today (just as accurate though, maybe more so).

QDC can is the titties and I love that thing on the SR25. I generally dedicate cans to my rifles, not many share one, so I figure I have options for the Mk20 despite having another QDC mount that'll fit it. Surefire is what they use now I guess, but I'm not sold on 'em yet. SCAR has been through 3 different can designs and manufacturers over the years so if that's the case then I may be able to do better on my own given I have no political or financial attributes affecting my decision. I feel the Surefire cans to be way overpriced and at $1800 I expect state of the art, light weight, stellar CS and performance in excess of what the QDC is capable of, in addition to solid QD mounts. And even then I wanna know where that other $400 went over the QDC...

Maybe I should just get the QDC PRS and be done with it. Or wait and see what comes out next.

Not familiar with the scope mount you refer to, but let me just say I normally use Badger shit and it works awesome, it's bulletproof. I don't have a good optic for the Mk20 yet, I'm figuring maybe on a 4-16 ATACR but open. In the meantime I took a USO SR8 off another rifle that's in a one piece cantilevered Badger mount.

Only problem? The damn bolts that lock it down stick out the left side, charging side, of the weapon. Now my knuckles hit those damn things. You REALLY need some kind of mount where those bolts are on the ejection side of the weapon IMO. This is a temporary setup but I'm sure glad I tried it out before ordering a set of Badger rings for it.

Mk22... Meh.

Just kidding. That's a pretty slick rifle and probably the smart thing to do... If I sold my SR I could get that McMillan TAC-338 that I want. Or hell, a TRG42, I could live with that. I like the fixed stocks vs. chassis and don't need the barrel swap deal. I got a DTA HTI for that reason and it's never been anything but a .50BMG, wish I'd gotten the McMillan .50 looking back.

Oh yeah, now I find myself wanting a plain SCAR 17... This shit is neverending.

 

[theLBC]

I finally got to pick it up yesterday. Yeah, it's a different beast for sure. Reminds me a lot of the FAL actually and it seems to me they started from there.

I got both and I'm keeping both. I MIGHT get a 6.5 conversion for ONE of them later on, we'll see. If I do that though, 90% chance it'll be for the SR25. That weapon in my mind is more suited for precision and the 6.5 KAC uppers have cut rifle 22" bbl.'s. But we'll see. I may not ever adopt 6.5CM, I may just go right around that one. SR25 has a kind of quality to it the Mk20 simply doesn't have. The Mk20 is obviously a much easier and cheaper weapon to manufacture and were it not for KAC having decades of experience and tooling in place, it'd cost 3x the Mk20 I imagine. Original SR25 was a $10,000 rifle IIRC and it wasn't as nice as it is today (just as accurate though, maybe more so).

QDC can is the titties and I love that thing on the SR25. I generally dedicate cans to my rifles, not many share one, so I figure I have options for the Mk20 despite having another QDC mount that'll fit it. Surefire is what they use now I guess, but I'm not sold on 'em yet. SCAR has been through 3 different can designs and manufacturers over the years so if that's the case then I may be able to do better on my own given I have no political or financial attributes affecting my decision. I feel the Surefire cans to be way overpriced and at $1800 I expect state of the art, light weight, stellar CS and performance in excess of what the QDC is capable of, in addition to solid QD mounts. And even then I wanna know where that other $400 went over the QDC...

Maybe I should just get the QDC PRS and be done with it. Or wait and see what comes out next.

Not familiar with the scope mount you refer to, but let me just say I normally use Badger shit and it works awesome, it's bulletproof. I don't have a good optic for the Mk20 yet, I'm figuring maybe on a 4-16 ATACR but open. In the meantime I took a USO SR8 off another rifle that's in a one piece cantilevered Badger mount.

Only problem? The damn bolts that lock it down stick out the left side, charging side, of the weapon. Now my knuckles hit those damn things. You REALLY need some kind of mount where those bolts are on the ejection side of the weapon IMO. This is a temporary setup but I'm sure glad I tried it out before ordering a set of Badger rings for it.

Mk22... Meh.

Just kidding. That's a pretty slick rifle and probably the smart thing to do... If I sold my SR I could get that McMillan TAC-338 that I want. Or hell, a TRG42, I could live with that. I like the fixed stocks vs. chassis and don't need the barrel swap deal. I got a DTA HTI for that reason and it's never been anything but a .50BMG, wish I'd gotten the McMillan .50 looking back.

Oh yeah, now I find myself wanting a plain SCAR 17... This shit is neverending.

it is easy to swap the charging handle to the other side, but i know what you mean.
i run a KDG charging handle and a bobro scar mount so there is no obstructions.

 

[Strykervet]

it is easy to swap the charging handle to the other side, but i know what you mean.
i run a KDG charging handle and a bobro scar mount so there is no obstructions.

I saw that charging handle looking around but wondered if it was worth it or not. See, if the scope mount isn't in the way then the only complaint I have with the charging handle is that it could be a little more substantial but nothing I can't live with. And I don't want it on the firing side, don't wanna have to break position to change mags, clear obstructions, etc.

I saw the non-reciprocating ones too. Yeah, not spending $200 and replacing the carrier for it. I wonder if the whole deal about it being a forward assist is really in the design or if it's something they just made up as an afterthought. SR25 didn't need one but maybe it's due to a lighter reciprocating mass in Mk20.

I need another optic, no way around it. SR8 and the Badger mount are temporary but at least I know what I'm dealing with. Had I not known or thought about it I'd have bought another Badger automatically. If you can install the rings the other way around then that'd be a solution, I don't have to use a one piece.

I have an LR17 on the SR25, thought about juggling it onto the MK20 and getting a new scope for the SR25 and may still do that. But damn that LR17 is heavy! Another option, if weight isn't an issue, I could take the ER25 off the .50 and get something for that monster --but the ER25 is pretty damn hard to beat for a BMG scope. I'd like an SB or Hensoldt but will probably settle for an ATACR or Leupold (Mk6? Mk8? Shit, I don't remember which is which...).

 

[Strykervet]

Anybody else think the Mk20 is an updated FAL combined with attributes from the AR? I mean, they use the same magazine --take an FAL mag, grind the lip off and cut a hole in the side and you have a no-shit Mk20 mag. Same finish, same floorplate. Trigger group is similar, hammer spring could very well be FAL old stock! Charging handle is similar too. Bolt and cam come right off an AR as do the controls and ergonomics of the lower.

FAL genetics only make me like it more, I still dig my FAL though I seldom use it.

Found out today Canadians can get German military configured G28's (the 3rd bad bitch of 21st century 7.62 rifles, completing the triumvirate) with the optics package (SB scope and T1 dot) all matching RAL8000. $12k US. Damn. Yeah it's expensive, but considering how much that rifle, scope and dot cost it actually works out... Kind of. Only rifle I'd dump my SR25 for.

Tell me that ain't one sexy bitch! Note the designation on the side, "G28" not "G28Z" or "MR308". Also has the steel upper! Not "like" the real thing, this "is" the real thing! HK man, they need a US factory because they'd do a lot more business if G28's, G36's and UMP's weren't neutered. And they neuter the piss out of HK shit.

 

[CageFighter]

damn, what scope mount is that above??

 

[TheOE800]

The current Surefire SOCOM cans that aren’t specifically made for MGs are under $1K, unlike the original SOCOM RC1 series.

 

[Strykervet]

damn, what scope mount is that above??

I don't know, I was actually looking that up the other day because there are a couple different ones, one looks like that same mount on a QD riser for use with the NSV80.

But Badger sells similar if not better stuff if you're looking for something like that.

I can't believe the army bought these rifles for SDM's but with a Sig 1-6x scope and a Geissele rail (what the fuck difference does the rail make!?). A $8000 rifle with a $500 scope on it. Fucking army man, when we started the SDM program they wouldn't listen to us then. Whoever makes these decisions has ZERO time behind a rifle, that's a fact. And AMU was the worst fucking place to send SDM's to learn to shoot for a lot of reasons and this rifle illustrates yet another one.

IMHO they should've issued these MK20's with ACOGs or VCOGs. Maybe make one with a 16"bbl. Or the KAC ACC. Why we needed the most expensive AR that EUROPE can build is beyond my reasoning and I'm only capable of lowly logic...

The current Surefire SOCOM cans that aren’t specifically made for MGs are under $1K, unlike the original SOCOM RC1 series.

Yeah but the whole point of it would be to get the "correct" one or the best one... Surefire has a long history of huge profit margins. If Surefire had built the KAC QDC, it'd be a $5000 suppressor, easy. I haven't found a can yet for it, but I'm not even looking at Surefire at this point.

 

[TheOE800]

Ok. I myself picked up another SOCOM to add the collection. When my SR25 lands I’ll have to decide KAC or not, but between the two one is $500 cheaper and easier to find.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Have the 6.5C versions hit the street yet?

 

[CageFighter]

Have the 6.5C versions hit the street yet?

I dont think so. maybe some connected elite folks may have one, but the rest of us peasants dont.

 

[TheHorta]

Just ordered my 20S 6.5CM. Expected delivery in 3 weeks.

 

[theLBC]

Just ordered my 20S 6.5CM. Expected delivery in 3 weeks.

can't wait for a range report! get video!

 

[CageFighter]

Just ordered my 20S 6.5CM. Expected delivery in 3 weeks.

PM me some info where plz.

 

[theLBC]

I saw that charging handle looking around but wondered if it was worth it or not. See, if the scope mount isn't in the way then the only complaint I have with the charging handle is that it could be a little more substantial but nothing I can't live with. And I don't want it on the firing side, don't wanna have to break position to change mags, clear obstructions, etc.

i got the kdg handle because it is bigger, so if i happen to be wearing gloves, or being rushed by zombies, i don't miss the little handle.
i always suggest buying a spare because it is small enough to lose easily. the original is my spare and kept in my field kit.

 

[ShaoKahn]

Just ordered my 20S 6.5CM. Expected delivery in 3 weeks.

Spill it. Where did you order it from? Need to grab one of those.

 

[theLBC]

Spill it. Where did you order it from? Need to grab one of those.

geez mang, don't temp me even more. i am holding out for a 6.5CM barrel assy, but living where i live, getting another next year is not a given.

 

[ShaoKahn]

geez mang, don't temp me even more. i am holding out for a 6.5CM barrel assy, but living where i live, getting another next year is not a given.

Come on man, you have to get your priorities straight.

 

[m1marty]

I don't have a lot of time behind 25s. I do own a 20. It has completely changed my mind on 762 gassers. I wasn't ever really interested in one prior to this.
Trigger is fantastic. Action, controls and fit/finish are all great. Barrel swaps are stupid easy. Now down to accuracy. Mk316, Sig 175OTM and PMC 168 SMKs have all shot .5-.8 at 100m for 5rds. Smacking plates to 800 is stupid easy. Inside the barrel via bore scope is like art. Cleans fast and easy and doesn't seem to copper/carbon foul much at all.
Nit pick- you have to drive this thing. Sloppy holds show quick. Recoil impulse, while soft, is....strange for me. I'm a bolt guy. Takes some getting used to.
I did mine as an ST10 clone with as many issued/correct parts that I could. The scope is only a few #s off the issued one on the issued case.
Group was bench fired at 200m using factory Mk316 ammo

 

[physhphude]

Now that I've owned the Scar 20 for awhile, I will update my comparison and say I prefer the SR25 platform.

The SCAR is finicky. Screws are constantly coming loose, random thermal shifting that is not repeatable. I'm getting pitting through the chrome and major copper buildup at the throat. While the SCAR had better performance out of the gate, it does not seem to have the durability or reliability of the SR-25. Its accuracy seems to fall off rather quickly since it likes to build copper up at the throat, it is still slightly more accurate than my ECC and M110 though. I'm at less than 2000 rounds and it seems like i'm down to bare steel at some parts of the throat with pitting of the steel under the chrome. My ECC with more rounds through it has nearly perfect rifling.

The SR-25 may not be as accurate, but they always run, and will run suppressed or unsuppressed.

The my scar is actually under-gassed with the surefire 762SV suppressor and it no longer reliably cycles.
The cheek piece extends out of position if you accidentally grab onto it and try to lift the gun.

While they look similar, the new batch of SR-25's is a significant step up from the ECC and M110.
The ACC I have had experience with is very impressive and seems to meet the SCAR's accuracy while being lighter and more reliable.
The SR-25 in 6.5 CM is a rifle without equal I think. Capable of .75 or less moa accuracy at 1000 yards, this thing is amazing and blows the SCAR out of the water.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

Physhphude Thanks for posting - would you please share your choice in 6.5CM ammo/loading and any chrono numbers if possible.

 

[2grim4U]

Now that I've owned the Scar 20 for awhile, I will update my comparison and say I prefer the SR25 platform.

The SCAR is finicky. Screws are constantly coming loose, random thermal shifting that is not repeatable. I'm getting pitting through the chrome and major copper buildup at the throat. While the SCAR had better performance out of the gate, it does not seem to have the durability or reliability of the SR-25. Its accuracy seems to fall off rather quickly since it likes to build copper up at the throat, it is still slightly more accurate than my ECC and M110 though. I'm at less than 2000 rounds and it seems like i'm down to bare steel at some parts of the throat with pitting of the steel under the chrome. My ECC with more rounds through it has nearly perfect rifling.

The SR-25 may not be as accurate, but they always run, and will run suppressed or unsuppressed.

The my scar is actually under-gassed with the surefire 762SV suppressor and it no longer reliably cycles.
The cheek piece extends out of position if you accidentally grab onto it and try to lift the gun.

While they look similar, the new batch of SR-25's is a significant step up from the ECC and M110.
The ACC I have had experience with is very impressive and seems to meet the SCAR's accuracy while being lighter and more reliable.
The SR-25 in 6.5 CM is a rifle without equal I think. Capable of .75 or less moa accuracy at 1000 yards, this thing is amazing and blows the SCAR out of the water.

Now you know why the Army has lost interest in the SCAR. It's a cheaply made weapon that civilian market buyers are willing to pay idiotic prices for it. Wanted to buy one when they first hit the market until I layed my hands on on in person. The SCAR is a rifle that should be selling for $1,200, and that's being generous.

I'll take my old pieced together FAL and L1A1 over a SCAR any day. At least they have some collector value and history behind them.

 

[TheHorta]

So... now that I have both, AND both have the same optic (a SB PMII 3-27x55 “High Power” on each) in the same Spuhr mount — all I need to do is find someone who can actually shoot well to compare them side-by-side. I wouldn’t trust my own hand. I’m known in the shooting community as “Shakey McShakesalot.”

That should be a fair test.

 

[scharfschutze762]

damn, what scope mount is that above??

Its ERA TAC from Germany..Euro optics sells them

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Now you know why the Army has lost interest in the SCAR. It's a cheaply made weapon that civilian market buyers are willing to pay idiotic prices for it. Wanted to buy one when they first hit the market until I layed my hands on on in person. The SCAR is a rifle that should be selling for $1,200, and that's being generous.

I'll take my old pieced together FAL and L1A1 over a SCAR any day. At least they have some collector value and history behind them.

Ignorance is bliss. Love hearing reviews from someone who has never owned the gun much less run it. MK20 are all over USASOCOM.

 

[GUNNER10]

Ignorance is bliss. Love hearing reviews from someone who has never owned the gun much less run it. MK20 are all over USASOCOM.

While I prefer my SR25 over my Scar, There are alot of Scars running around down range these days. While scars may have had some issues with durability, they have always had a reputation for reliability and acceptable accuracy. Personally speaking, My ACC just feels nicer to shoot(recoil/impulse, balances nicer, while weighing the same as my Scar. With that being said, I think there the Scar heavy has more potential than my SR25 as one can theoretically experiment with new barrels and the gas system. That ability to set up the rifle as needed, is one of the reasons that I love my MWS.

A part of me would like to sell my scar, but another would have dead shot make me a 16 inch 6.5CM barrel to mess around with

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Yea man. I just sold my SCAR for a MWS for 2 main reasons.

6.5CM and cheap user replaceable Barrels. A QD Cut Rifle 6.5CM match barrel for $650? Yes Please.

Been down the SR25 route and while I love them, they are just too expensive, hard to get in 6.5CM and the cost of a barrel replacement is insane.

Was able to build my MWS for $2K less and everything is factory except the Trigger and Muzzle brake. Hell a SR25 6.5CM upper costs more than this entire rifle, and lets be honest, the MWS is not giving up much to even the newer SR25's.

The SCAR does have a ton of potential, its just a shame FN has no desire to go down that route. Imagine if it had gotten incremental upgrades like the SR has every few years the last 25 years......I just can't deal with FN's bullshit anymore.

But for someone to sit here and say the SCAR is junk, is very ignorant and uninformed.

 

[2grim4U]

Ignorance is bliss. Love hearing reviews from someone who has never owned the gun much less run it. MK20 are all over USASOCOM.

How many has the Army procured compared to the M110? Or any other autoloader DMR?

Last time I checked, FN doesn't have any current contracts to supply the DOD with any more Mk20's. The last contract they had was with the Navy in 2011.

The Mk20 is eventually being ditched for the HK version of the M110. Not that I'm a fan of HK, but it's what the DOD is going with.

The Mk 20 is being used in Afghanistan, but that's only because the DOD bought them and they have a need for a DMR there.

I don't need to use something to know how cheap it's made. The upper receiver is a shitty aluminum extrusion. My estimate is that it cost FN about $2 for the extrusion and it takes about 10 minutes of machine time to machine the details in it. The upper receiver body (without any other parts) probably costs FN about $15 to manufacture. The bolt/and bolt carrier, barrel mounting trunion, and injection molded parts for the butstock account for another $150 in COGS parts. The barrel is probably the most expensive single part to manufacture at around $90. Total manufacturing costs for this weapon is around $600 if you include the time and cost to package it. And that's being generous. And theres idiots that will drop $4K on this and think they got a 'good deal'.

Obviously, you're happy with dropping $4K on a weapon that cost $600 to build. And that's fine with me. Every business loves a sucker.

And BTW, you don't know shit about me or what work I've been involved in.

 

[2grim4U]

But for someone to sit here and say the SCAR is junk, is very ignorant and uninformed.

So, Where in my previous post did I claim the SCAR was junk? You have taken the liberty of putting words in my mouth...

My only statement was the SCAR was a cheaply made weapon. I never claimed it wasn't suitable for its intended purposes. If it met the Army's requirements for acceptance testing, then that affirmed that the weapon meets the provisions outlined in the solicitation and tech data package.

Ignorant and uninformed? When was the last time you read a book? Do the names Ezell and Hatcher ring a bell with you? My guess is no. I have their books on my shelf next to the computer I'm writing this from.

How may years experience do you have in procurement contracts for the Army? Writing quality procedures for Army contract compliance? How about any experience other than spending $4K on a weapon and then selling it because you " just can't deal with FN's bullshit anymore ".

 

[2grim4U]

Its a free market. Buy what you want. But don't complain about it once you figure out you paid too much.

 

[theLBC]

i suppose i should get used to hearing from folks that don't like the Scar 20S and not take it personally just because i have one.
all i can say is that being able to shoot sub moa groups my first time at the range with it, it satisfies my needs and seems extremely easy to shoot well.

 

[2grim4U]

i suppose i should get used to hearing from folks that don't like the Scar 20S and not take it personally just because i have one.
all i can say is that being able to shoot sub moa groups my first time at the range with it, it satisfies my needs and seems extremely easy to shoot well.

Like I said, my complaint isn't what the SCAR is capable of. It's just too expensive for what it does. It might be good from an investment standpoint, but that would mean that it needs to be kept in the box.

My biggest gripe with the SCAR it is that from a civilian shooters standpoint, is that you can find a variety of weapons that are more capable, equally as reliable (or better), find magazines that are cheaper and more plentiful (at least that was true 6 month ago), and have a huge aftermarket to pick from for things like hand guards, stocks, etc., for a lot less money.

Does the SCAR possess some sort of cool factor that makes it something desirable to own? In some peoples minds, yes. Is that bad? No. But for my money, I was happy to handle it once, and say that I've got better things I can spend my money on.

From a historical standpoint, the SCAR hasn't lived up to the promises that FN made when the SCAR was introduced. And time marches on. The newest flavor of DOD spec DMR's is going to be a M110 based on the HK MR762/HK417. And the FN SCAR will eventually be retired into the dustbin of history.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

So, Where in my previous post did I claim the SCAR was junk? You have taken the liberty of putting words in my mouth...

My only statement was the SCAR was a cheaply made weapon. I never claimed it wasn't suitable for its intended purposes. If it met the Army's requirements for acceptance testing, then that affirmed that the weapon meets the provisions outlined in the solicitation and tech data package.

Ignorant and uninformed? When was the last time you read a book? Do the names Ezell and Hatcher ring a bell with you? My guess is no. I have their books on my shelf next to the computer I'm writing this from.

How may years experience do you have in procurement contracts for the Army? Writing quality procedures for Army contract compliance? How about any experience other than spending $4K on a weapon and then selling it because you " just can't deal with FN's bullshit anymore ".

You have no idea what it cost. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass. Your entire post is bullshit. Its also intelectually dishonest when the rest of the industry has similar costs of production , margins, ect. These types of contracts, the gov knows the direct manufacturing costs.

The SCAR was developed with SOCOM funding. They created what was asked for. Lightweight, reliable, sub moa, modular and soft shooting makes it cheap.

Some of us here are FAC-C or COR. Might want to put your dick back in your pants becuase I can assure you, its not the biggest in the room.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Like I said, my complaint isn't what the SCAR is capable of. It's just too expensive for what it does. It might be good from an investment standpoint, but that would mean that it needs to be kept in the box.

My biggest gripe with the SCAR it is that from a civilian shooters standpoint, is that you can find a variety of weapons that are more capable, equally as reliable (or better), find magazines that are cheaper and more plentiful (at least that was true 6 month ago), and have a huge aftermarket to pick from for things like hand guards, stocks, etc., for a lot less money.

Does the SCAR possess some sort of cool factor that makes it something desirable to own? In some peoples minds, yes. Is that bad? No. But for my money, I was happy to handle it once, and say that I've got better things I can spend my money on.

From a historical standpoint, the SCAR hasn't lived up to the promises that FN made when the SCAR was introduced. And time marches on. The newest flavor of DOD spec DMR's is going to be a M110 based on the HK MR762/HK417. And the FN SCAR will eventually be retired into the dustbin of history.

Stop talking out of your ass. This is why everyone is laughing at you right now.

Inexperience and overconfidence is a bad combination.

 

[2grim4U]

Stop talking out of your ass. This is why everyone is laughing at you right now.

Inexperience and overconfidence is a bad combination.

Geezus, the junk I could talk you into buying would allow me to retire early....

I'd laught at you as I'm depositing your check.

 

[theLBC]

Like I said, my complaint isn't what the SCAR is capable of. It's just too expensive for what it does. It might be good from an investment standpoint, but that would mean that it needs to be kept in the box.

My biggest gripe with the SCAR it is that from a civilian shooters standpoint, is that you can find a variety of weapons that are more capable, equally as reliable (or better), find magazines that are cheaper and more plentiful (at least that was true 6 month ago), and have a huge aftermarket to pick from for things like hand guards, stocks, etc., for a lot less money.

Does the SCAR possess some sort of cool factor that makes it something desirable to own? In some peoples minds, yes. Is that bad? No. But for my money, I was happy to handle it once, and say that I've got better things I can spend my money on.

From a historical standpoint, the SCAR hasn't lived up to the promises that FN made when the SCAR was introduced. And time marches on. The newest flavor of DOD spec DMR's is going to be a M110 based on the HK MR762/HK417. And the FN SCAR will eventually be retired into the dustbin of history.

thanks for your input.

this is an SR-25 vs Scar 20S debate. which is more expensive? which is more accurate?
investment? lol, i shoot my limited edition version.
proprietary mags...who gives a fuck? i am not an operator that needs 20 of them.
aftermarket stuff? again, who gives a fuck? if it wasn't want i wanted, i wouldn't have bought it.
do people really pay $5k for a rifle because because they can swap out original parts with the ones they want?

 

[2grim4U]

You have no idea what it cost. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass. Your entire post is bullshit. Its also intelectually dishonest when the rest of the industry has similar costs of production , margins, ect. These types of contracts, the gov knows the direct manufacturing costs.

The SCAR was developed with SOCOM funding. They created what was asked for. Lightweight, reliable, sub moa, modular and soft shooting makes it cheap.

Some of us here are FAC-C or COR. Might want to put your dick back in your pants becuase I can assure you, its not the biggest in the room.

I've spent most of my life in manufacturing. And a big chunk of that for defense contractors. Not only am I able to estimate the exact cost of what the manufacturing costs for each and every part are within a few percent (it's what I do for a living), but I can also reverse engineer every part, tell you what material its made from, what type heat treating process was likely used, and what type of equipment each process was done on.

Half the time, the on-site DCMA reps I've had to deal with in the past were complete morons. Companies would pass defective product right under their noses and they had no clue what they were looking at.

Don't tell me what I am, and am not capable of doing. I'll make you look like a fool.

Manufacturing cost have nothing to do with funding from SOCOM you idiot.

The government has no clue what actual costs are for manufacturing anything. That's a closely guarded secret by each and everyone that bids on government contracts. Do you have any clue how much the Army pays for M-4's? Take that number and multiply it by 60% and that's going to be a close approximation of what the actual manufacturing cost is. This IS the industry standard.

Costs outside actual manufacturing costs are a separate line item in the contract and are reimbursed over the life of the contract.

The OP wanted a comparison between the SCAR and the SR-25. Not idiot cry babies that paid too much for a mediocre weapon.

 

[physhphude]

I've spent most of my life in manufacturing. And a big chunk of that for defense contractors. Not only am I able to estimate the exact cost of what the manufacturing costs for each and every part are within a few percent (it's what I do for a living), but I can also reverse engineer every part, tell you what material its made from, what type heat treating process was likely used, and what type of equipment each process was done on.

Half the time, the on-site DCMA reps I've had to deal with in the past were complete morons. Companies would pass defective product right under their noses and they had no clue what they were looking at.

Don't tell me what I am, and am not capable of doing. I'll make you look like a fool.

Manufacturing cost have nothing to do with funding from SOCOM you idiot.

The government has no clue what actual costs are for manufacturing anything. That's a closely guarded secret by each and everyone that bids on government contracts. Do you have any clue how much the Army pays for M-4's? Take that number and multiply it by 60% and that's going to be a close approximation of what the actual manufacturing cost is. This IS the industry standard.

Costs outside actual manufacturing costs are a separate line item in the contract and are reimbursed over the life of the contract.

The OP wanted a comparison between the SCAR and the SR-25. Not idiot cry babies that paid too much for a mediocre weapon.

Have you shot or had any experience with the 20s?

While I prefer the SR25, the differences are splitting hairs and the SCAR 20s is an excellent rifle in its own right.

I may have some complaints with the SCAR, but only in comparison to the SR25. The SCAR is still an impressive platform, extremely accurate, durable and reliable. It is still a top tier semi auto large frame rifle in my opinion.

Honestly the choice between SR25 and SCAR 20s is mostly cosmetics, either would serve you well.

 

[GUNNER10]

So, Where in my previous post did I claim the SCAR was junk? You have taken the liberty of putting words in my mouth...

My only statement was the SCAR was a cheaply made weapon. I never claimed it wasn't suitable for its intended purposes. If it met the Army's requirements for acceptance testing, then that affirmed that the weapon meets the provisions outlined in the solicitation and tech data package.

Ignorant and uninformed? When was the last time you read a book? Do the names Ezell and Hatcher ring a bell with you? My guess is no. I have their books on my shelf next to the computer I'm writing this from.

How may years experience do you have in procurement contracts for the Army? Writing quality procedures for Army contract compliance? How about any experience other than spending $4K on a weapon and then selling it because you " just can't deal with FN's bullshit anymore ".

I too have some criticism regarding the price of the scar, I have around 4k into mine, so its pretty close to what I paid for my SR25, and based on feel alone. The SR25 feels nicer to shoot.

With that being said, The Scar has never really had any reliability issues which i must give credit for. I wish FN would refine the platform so that there is no need to have two stand alone weapons systems such as the Mk17 and Mk20. Its modular, just embrace it, have two Chassis with different barrels is silly

If the Mk20 barrel system/attachment is better, integrate it on the mk17, if not shit can it and move on. No reason a Mk17 barrel can use a Mk20 type barrel