Is this action, toast? (Resolved)

[earthquake]

****SEE POST #29 FOLLOW-UP****

Starting a different thread on this topic since I thought originally it was a reloading issue. Long story, short....was having a helluva time at a match this weekend chambering rounds. Thought maybe I hadn't set the die correctly to bump shoulders.

Took barrel off and found this:

Something must've got in there? I was pounding the bolt open and closed almost every shot. Decided to not shoot day-2 for safety reasons. Now I'm definitely glad I didn't. What happened and is this action ruined? Thanks.

****SEE POST #29 FOLLOW-UP****

 

[5RWill]

Looks like minor galling to me but I wouldn't think that the action is done. See what @Zermatt Arms thinks.

 

[Zermatt Arms]

Starting a different thread on this topic since I thought originally it was a reloading issue. Long story, short....was having a helluva time at a match this weekend chambering rounds. Thought maybe I hadn't set the die correctly to bump shoulders.

Took barrel off and found this:

View attachment 7812583
View attachment 7812584

View attachment 7812585

View attachment 7812587


Something must've got in there? I was pounding the bolt open and closed almost every shot. Decided to not shoot day-2 for safety reasons. Now I'm definitely glad I didn't. What happened and is this action ruined? Thanks

We'd like to see it in person. Shoot me an email and we'll get that back in hand to inspect it.

[email protected]

Thank you - Ray

 

[SmartDonkey]

You didn't show the correct part of the bolt that makes contact. But bolt heads can be replaced and the action can be cleaned up. Still need to find out what the cause actually is..... and grease.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

Looks like galling. Did youre action require "pounding open" running it dry? I'd suspect your reloads were exceeding headspace which caused too much pressure to get put on the lugs. Not greasing your lugs could also do this but forcing really tight rounds to chamber is probably the cause.

Zermatt will get you back in running order I'm sure. Some of the best customer service in the biz.

 

[TEUFEL820]

Looks like galling of the lugs. Make sure you check your head space next time you shoot again. The headspace may have been borderline previously. Lug setback(wear) will increase that tolerance(stacking). You'll also notice a lot of case head separation when this happens.

 

[Steel head]

Pic of the back of the lugs on the bolt head?

 

[supercorndogs]

That happens to lugs when you don't bump shoulders enough, and cram them into the chamber. One of the reasons i don't like to neck size.

 

[JB.IC]

That happens to lugs when you don't bump shoulders enough, and cram them into the chamber. One of the reasons i don't like to neck size.

Also happens when the load is ran at too high of pressures for too long. That heavy bolt lift is giving us a hint.

 

[n2ishun]

Pic of the back of the lugs on the bolt head?

^ +1
what the kitty said

 

[powdahound76]

Dang!!!

Cool Zermatt is on here and on top of this!!

Hope to hear the whole story once they look at it

 

[earthquake]

So this is the first of three TL3 actions I own and my first. It was a pre-order before they were even released. It's been my workhorse since late 2016 and by far the smoothest/slickest one I own. Many thousands of rounds on this thing without a hiccup!

If you saw my post about it in the reloading section, I bet this is a combo of something getting in there and me being a dumbass and not setting the sizing die correct for this old barrel.

 

[earthquake]

The loads were not too hot. I ran my tried and true Dasher load, 32.0-gr Varget and jump 0.020". #easybutton

I believe the hard lift was due to the hard close. It was so hard closing the action that the rifle would cant itself 45° on the bipod. It was ridiculous. Hence why I bowed out day-2.

I full-length size on a SAC modular die, and use Alpha brass....their older stuff that's not the OCD or whatever. Annealed with an AMP after every firing. Probably 7 firings on this brass now.

I just think they were too long and I failed to set the die for this barrel. It was my 2020 barrel since my 2022 barrel hasn't arrived yet. I forgot I had a 2021 barrel in between that this die was probably still set to. Oops.

 

[HousePlant]

Sorry this happened... but if Zermatt fixes this and doesn't charge you (or much), their name will be on my next new custom action without question! Love to see forum involvement where it matters most from the makers!

 

[ZY100]

But you were a good guy to shoot with!

We missed you day two but glad you figured it out.

 

[TNSleeper99]

I’d just deal directly with Zermatt. I thought I had an issue with a TL3 a few years back after fitting a prefit with a barrel nut. Turns out I actually had a bad headspace gauge from a very reputable company. I’m pretty sure it was Ray from Zermatt that I dealt with, but they went so far above and beyond what I expected, I’m a customer for life. Something would have to come out that was light years ahead to make me look anywhere else for an action.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Sorry this happened... but if Zermatt fixes this and doesn't charge you (or much), their name will be on my next new custom action without question! Love to see forum involvement where it matters most from the makers!

Just so you know, I've now sent 2 actions back to Ray and he's done stuff to them, including new parts and sent it back to me very quickly, and never did charge me a dime. Neither were sent due to them not working or anything either. Absolutely awesome folks that have a very long and well deserved reputation for excellent customer service.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I’d just deal directly with Zermatt. I thought I had an issue with a TL3 a few years back after fitting a prefit with a barrel nut. Turns out I actually had a bad headspace gauge from a very reputable company. I’m pretty sure it was Ray from Zermatt that I dealt with, but they went so far above and beyond what I expected, I’m a customer for life. Something would have to come out that was light years ahead to make me look anywhere else for an action.

Let me guess its was PTG gauges.....

 

[TNSleeper99]

Let me guess its was PTG gauges.....

No, I steer clear from PTG.

 

[kriller134]

Sorry this happened... but if Zermatt fixes this and doesn't charge you (or much), their name will be on my next new custom action without question! Love to see forum involvement where it matters most from the makers!

Just do it. I have an origin and a tl3 and any time I needed something, I was taken care of. They have great customer service and do care about getting their customers up and running.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

No, I steer clear from PTG.

Ok, good policy for sure. They got me for some guages that were ridiculously late and when I got em, they were out of spec. Ray helped me out on that one too though, as usual. @Zermatt Arms takes care of their customers....

 

[Frank Green]

What conditions was the gun shot in and where?

Do you use any grease on the bolt lugs at all/camming surfaces at all?

Just curious! Make sure you relay all this information to Zermatt as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Zermatt Arms]

So this is the first of three TL3 actions I own and my first. It was a pre-order before they were even released. It's been my workhorse since late 2016 and by far the smoothest/slickest one I own. Many thousands of rounds on this thing without a hiccup!

If you saw my post about it in the reloading section, I bet this is a combo of something getting in there and me being a dumbass and not setting the sizing die correct for this old barrel.

View attachment 7812624

I can't be 100% certain without this in hand, but if it was that timeline, it could have been an NP3 coated bolt and if that coating starts to flake on the bolt head, issues rear their heads FAST.

We'll keep our eyes open for your email and get this sorted out. Shouldn't be more than a few tenths off of the lug abutment and a new bolt head to get you back to new.

Thanks - Ray

 

[earthquake]

I can't be 100% certain without this in hand, but if it was that timeline, it could have been an NP3 coated bolt and if that coating starts to flake on the bolt head, issues rear their heads FAST.

We'll keep our eyes open for your email and get this sorted out. Shouldn't be more than a few tenths off of the lug abutment and a new bolt head to get you back to new.

Thanks - Ray

Email sent. Thanks!

 

[owtlaw]

I will most definitely be getting a Zermatt Action for my next build. This thread just cemented that choice for me.

 

[earthquake]

I will most definitely be getting a Zermatt Action for my next build. This thread just cemented that choice for me.

You won't be disappointed! I own two now, but have had three at a time. Been using them since 2016.

 

[Tortuga]

I will most definitely be getting a Zermatt Action for my next build. This thread just cemented that choice for me.

Ditto. The next two, actually. A Rim-X and a TL3.

 

[NBPRP]

If it was a Lebel then you would have 'French Toast'. Or if you put some thin slices of turkey, ham and Swiss cheese on it then you would have a Monte Cristo.

Just kidding.

On a more serious note I had some minor galling on the lugs of an action I bought from a hunter who was switching to 'blast-o-matics' as he had some arthritis and working the bolt was getting difficult for him. When I took it to my gunsmith to make a match rifle out of it the smith cleaned up the lugs and made them square. He said galling is not that uncommon and unless the galling was really significant he could correct the problem.

By the way, nice job with the photos.

 

[earthquake]

****FOLLOW-UP****

Well I sent my action and trigger to Ray at Zermatt on 3/1 and they received it on 3/3. I got it back on 3/12. That's fast turnaround!

Action looks brand new again. They cleaned it up, polished it, timed my trigger and performed the following that Ray relayed to me in an email:

"The fix was just to drop an endmill on the lug abutment and remove material until evidence of galling was gone. Then, we measured how much we removed with that tool and removed that much from the face of the receiver to maintain the same factory headspace dimension".

They even replaced the bolt head! Didn't cost me a thing. I've had nothing but amazing CS with Zermatt over the life of this action. If you're shopping actions, don't hesitate to get a Zermatt. You will be well taken care of if anything arises, rest assured. I e owned this one since 2016 and it's seen thousands of rounds, been in dozens of matches and this is the first time I've had to send it in, and it was more than likely my fault.

From Ray, "We appreciate your feedback! Our goal is to always deliver the highest quality product and provide service to maintain the highest quality product. It's not just a manufacturing process that makes a good product in my opinion, it's a full scale system that includes service of those products that makes them great."

Can't argue with that!

 

[Ty21]

****FOLLOW-UP****

Well I sent my action and trigger to Ray at Zermatt on 3/1 and they received it on 3/3. I got it back on 3/12. That's fast turnaround!

Action looks brand new again. They cleaned it up, polished it, timed my trigger and performed the following that Ray relayed to me in an email:

"The fix was just to drop an endmill on the lug abutment and remove material until evidence of galling was gone. Then, we measured how much we removed with that tool and removed that much from the face of the receiver to maintain the same factory headspace dimension".

They even replaced the bolt head! Didn't cost me a thing. I've had nothing but amazing CS with Zermatt over the life of this action. If you're shopping actions, don't hesitate to get a Zermatt. You will be well taken care of if anything arises, rest assured. I e owned this one since 2016 and it's seen thousands of rounds, been in dozens of matches and this is the first time I've had to send it in, and it was more than likely my fault.

From Ray, "We appreciate your feedback! Our goal is to always deliver the highest quality product and provide service to maintain the highest quality product. It's not just a manufacturing process that makes a good product in my opinion, it's a full scale system that includes service of those products that makes them great."

Can't argue with that!

View attachment 7827402

View attachment 7827403

Awesome glad they fixed it looks brand new …. Glad I choose zermatt for my first custom build love the action super smooth and amazing customer service

 

[earthquake]

I have to ask what grease/lube do y'all use on your bolts?

@Zermatt Arms (Ray) what do you recommend? I noticed a small amount of red lube on this new bolt. What is that? Thanks again!

 

[Zermatt Arms]

I have to ask what grease/lube do y'all use on your bolts?

@Zermatt Arms (Ray) what do you recommend? I noticed a small amount of red lube on this new bolt. What is that? Thanks again!

We use Shooters Choice All Weather Grease. It's good to keep some lubrication on the lug abutments and around the stem of the shroud inside of the bolt body.

Thanks - Ray

 

[TEUFEL820]

Glad to hear about their great customer service. It has a lot to say about their company. I used to love my three lug action from a certain company but ditched them because of their lack of customer care.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Wow! Outstanding customer service!

 

[r.tenorio671]

 

[Matt_3479]

That is above and beyond in the customer service department!!

 

[Average guy]

We use Shooters Choice All Weather Grease. It's good to keep some lubrication on the lug abutments and around the stem of the shroud inside of the bolt body.

Thanks - Ray

My next action will be a Zermatt. Well done sir.

 

[powdahound76]

My new Origin looks badass in this KMW.

Good care from a company like this goes a long way

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

That's pretty impressive, I've had unbelievable CS from Zermatt as well. They are top notch products and top notch CS. Glad you got it worked out. I don't know anyone else who just handles stuff like Ray does, not to mention such a nice slick action.

 

[NBPRP]

Well all I can say is... SWEET.