Suppressors Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

[holdem]

I have an LWRC REPR. I have shot a total of four 300 meter matches with it. I think my class is F/TR. I am shooting with a scope and bi-pod.

The two times I shot without the supressor, I got lots of 8,9,10 and the occasional X. I shot around 525 for my score. I know, that sucks, but in my defense, at my first match, I had put a total of maybe 20 rounds down range at 300 meters before.

I then shot two matches with my AAC 7.62 SD installed and my scores dropped to the high 400 range, losing 30-35 points from my previous scores. I started getting lots of 7, with some 8 and 9.

Yes, I did correct zero for the suppressor. But my group opened up. I really like shooting with the can, but I hate that I can't get it as accurate.

The can does not seem to be backing off. I do not seem to have any baffle stirke. I use 168 grain FGMM or A-MAX. I did notice some mirage with the can (I have a cover on order).

Should I give up on the quick detach and get a thread on? Or for this type of shooting, just give up on a the can altogether?

Also, I should note that I do this for fun. The local match director does not care that I use a can. I do not submit my scores to the NRA and it would be once in a blue moon I would shoot a match elsewhere.

 

[Chucky]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

How fast are you shooting between shots. Suppressors do get hot and it might be warming up your barrel quicker. Also remember a suppressor cover will cut down on mirage but will also not let the heat escape as quickly. Try shooting not in a match and take your time between shots and see if your groups change between having the suppressor on and off and with the cover on.

Chuck

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Hey buddy where in Fl are you shooting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: holdem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an LWRC REPR. I have shot a total of four 300 meter matches with it. I think my class is F/TR. I am shooting with a scope and bi-pod.

The two times I shot without the supressor, I got lots of 8,9,10 and the occasional X. I shot around 525 for my score. I know, that sucks, but in my defense, at my first match, I had put a total of maybe 20 rounds down range at 300 meters before.

I then shot two matches with my AAC 7.62 SD installed and my scores dropped to the high 400 range, losing 30-35 points from my previous scores. I started getting lots of 7, with some 8 and 9.

Yes, I did correct zero for the suppressor. But my group opened up. I really like shooting with the can, but I hate that I can't get it as accurate.

The can does not seem to be backing off. I do not seem to have any baffle stirke. I use 168 grain FGMM or A-MAX. I did notice some mirage with the can (I have a cover on order).

Should I give up on the quick detach and get a thread on? Or for this type of shooting, just give up on a the can altogether?

Also, I should note that I do this for fun. The local match director does not care that I use a can. I do not submit my scores to the NRA and it would be once in a blue moon I would shoot a match elsewhere. </div></div>

 

[ponchair]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Suppressors cause more pressure or harmonics can change. Load may not meet the harmonics.

 

[holdem]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey buddy where in Fl are you shooting?

</div></div>

Central Florida Rifle and Pistol Club. The 300 meter match is the fourth Saturday of the month.

 

[holdem]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chucky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How fast are you shooting between shots. Suppressors do get hot and it might be warming up your barrel quicker. Also remember a suppressor cover will cut down on mirage but will also not let the heat escape as quickly. Try shooting not in a match and take your time between shots and see if your groups change between having the suppressor on and off and with the cover on.

Chuck
</div></div>

Not very fast, or at least I do not think so. A string of 20 rounds, plus a few sighters. After each shot, the target is lowered and marked. I then re-acquire, set and shoot. I think each string takes at least 10 minutes, maybe more. Then there is at least 30 minutes downtime between each string.

 

[PKelley]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Mine seems to depend on the load. I have had a similar experience with quick connect cans.

 

[Captain Moroni]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

My 7.62SD makes two sub moa guns into 1.5 moa guns. Now its on my AR and 1.5 moa is fine for that one.

I think my AAC can is the biggest disapointment of my shooting life.

 

[KYS]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

all of my cans tighten up my groups for sure.

 

[Bronco]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

The AAC 7.62 SD that I use works well on all the bolt rifles I've used it with. 3/4" groups at 200 yd. with a 6 Dasher is common. Not so with semi auto's, have tried it on two different DPMS 308's with horrible results (groups move around when suppressor is taken off and reattached), of the four different .223 AR's tried, it worked well on two of them. I really like mine even though you have to check it every few shots to be sure it hasn't loosened. After around 20 shots it seems to stay put and not loosen up.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

I use a QD Phantom on 3 rifles. They all shoot as good or better with the suppessor in place.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

I have a screw on and I see no loss in accuracy with the suppressor attached.

 

[shoepop]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

My observations with MY rifles and setups. QD ratchet type mounted hit or miss as far as accuracy improvement or degradation and repeatability. Screw on all have been good and shown accuracy improvements and repeatability. 3 lug have been fine as long as suppressor is always indexed same way after sight in. I'm sure others milage vary.

 

[bohem]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

My sole experience with an AAC 7.62 SD and the QD setup (this was on 3 rifles all with the 51t ratchets) was that it took several very very good shooters and turned them into mediocre lead slinging expenses.

The precision bolt rifle that it was mounted to runs 178 Amaxes and 175 SMK's into tiny little ragged holes without that can, put the can on and the zero shift is not particularly repeatable and the groups open to almost 1.25 MOA.

The owner is a buddy and he was so pissed about it that he ripped the mount off that rifle, we rethreaded it to 5/8-24 and started running a single point thread mounted suppressor. The rifle now shoots with a repeatable zero shift and itty bitty (titty) groups.

I have a second experience with an AAC 7.62 that is single point threaded attachment on a 5R and it is a very good shooting rifle, a little less than 1/2 MOA.

I don't like QD mounts.

 

[SingleShot85]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Yep mine is a solid 1/2-3/4 with out the can, and 1/4 with. I have a jet suppressor and it could care less if i run 1rnd a minute or 10 either way the gun and can work wonders.

Kind of sucks though, the extra length and weight are the trade off. for now the extra 1/4" improvement is not worth the difference.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ninja Pirtle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Suppressors cause more pressure or harmonics can change. Load may not meet the harmonics. </div></div>Hey ninja, if your signature is your girlfriend...I hate you hahaha dayumn

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep mine is a solid 1/2-3/4 with out the can, and 1/4 with. I have a jet suppressor and it could care less if i run 1rnd a minute or 10 either way the gun and can work wonders.

Kind of sucks though, the extra length and weight are the trade off. for now the extra 1/4" improvement is not worth the difference. </div></div>

Isn't the point to suppress your sound/recoil/muzzle flash? Shouldn't the 1/4" improvement be an added benefit? I'm not seeing your logic , and it looks like you are complaining?

 

[operator74656]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Cyclone is a better silencer for your bolt gun.

1. We make it threaded M18 x 1mm
2. It is very accurate because of the baffles we use these days.
3. The 762-SD will sound fine on your Bolt gun… but you will see the groups open up to 1 MOA… again this has to do with baffle design. Now, if you can’t shoot that well… then the 762-Sd will serve you fine.

- Mike Mers</div></div>

and
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You should see your groups tighten with any quality suppressor.

I think what Mike is referring to is that the 762-SD groups may be a little bigger than the groups with the CYCLONE. The CYCLONE is a stone-cold precision can- this is due to a combo of the thread mounting as well as the internal design and structure.

If ultimate accuracy is your goal, the CYCLONE is the way to go.

_________________
Marshmallow
GeneralGraphicalWhatHaveYou
Advanced Armament Corp.
[email protected]</div></div>

these quotes were from a thread on silencertalk.com

Thread

The thread was very similar and these staff members of AAC cleared things up by stating the 762-SD is good but not much better than 1MOA on average due to the baffle design. Consensus was that the Cyclone thread-on can was the ultimate for bolt-action precision (per AAC - I have no first-hand experience and am just relaying the info....)

BTW, I am from Ocala and am heading back there in a few days....although we dont have any good ranges >100m in my area...

 

[shoepop]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My observations with MY rifles and setups. QD ratchet type mounted hit or miss as far as accuracy improvement or degradation and repeatability. Screw on all have been good and shown accuracy improvements and repeatability. 3 lug have been fine as long as suppressor is always indexed same way after sight in. I'm sure others milage vary. </div></div>

To add I have noted that with an AAC M4-2000 that on 4 different 223/5.56's 2 bolt,2 gas that the blackout 51 tooth flash hider ALWAYS shot tighter than the B/O 51T muzzle brake adapter.

 

[SteelW0LF]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ninja Pirtle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Suppressors cause more pressure or harmonics can change. Load may not meet the harmonics. </div></div>Hey ninja, if your signature is your girlfriend...I hate you hahaha dayumn </div></div>

google "Shay Lauren"

Is it sad that I recognize pornstars by sight? I shoulda gone blind long ago according to my parents

 

[pharm762]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

I have not had any experience running a QD suppressor on my 308 rifle but I can attest that it tightens up my shot group. I have noticed that my AAC M4 2K does tighten up my shots with my SBR but no real difference on my 16" rifle. The AAC Cyclone I got is the coolest thing I own right now.

 

[xdeano]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

The only issues that I had with my AAC 7.62SD 18tooth was that after a year on my Gap Crusader the retainer springs were worn down and this caused my groups to open up, because it was loosening up, (they've fixed this issue with the 51 tooth model, things lock down now). I talked with Mike at AAC, shipped my can in, they fixed and shipped back inside of that week. Great CS. After I got it back my groups had shrunk back to normal and the can wasn't rotating off a eighth turn after 5 shots. My groups at 300 are right around 3/4" and at 600yds it's about 2.5", 800yds was about 4".

Barrel harmonics can really play hell on a barrel, so if you have a good shooting load for the rifle without a suppressor, you may have to make a few changes in your load after you put the suppressor on. That is if you hand load. The extra weight on the barrel does throw a wrench into things. Just something to look at instead of bashing companies for something they didn't do. First look at your own equipment.

xdeano

 

[TrooperBrian]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

I have a similar result, my can actually opens up the groups. I'll use it for long range plinking, and remove it for load testing.

 

[aac_shooter]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

I am running an AAC SCAR H-SD on my 308 bolt gun (18.5" barrel)and it tightens my groups .21" over shooting without the can. On average the rifle is a .6" shooter. I don't shoot without the can on it after I confirmed the results.

 

[nfoley]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Am really hoping my gemtech HVT on order won't negatively impact accuracy. Will post when I get it. Plan to put it on a 308 and 300 WSM.

 

[magnum_99]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

This thread has me all kinds of apprehensive about the AAC 7.62 SD I bought and am waiting on the form 4 approval.

I do intend to have the threads and mount inspected by a good gunsmith to make sure both are concentric, but if the baffle design itself is the issue, then I will be pissed. AAC makes NO effort to put this information out there before you buy.

I can't understand why the baffle design would be any different than their Cyclone, or why a YHM or Surefire can would be any more accurate.

 

[holdem]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: magnum_99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread has me all kinds of apprehensive about the AAC 7.62 SD I bought and am waiting on the form 4 approval.

I do intend to have the threads and mount inspected by a good gunsmith to make sure both are concentric, but if the baffle design itself is the issue, then I will be pissed. AAC makes NO effort to put this information out there before you buy.

I can't understand why the baffle design would be any different than their Cyclone, or why a YHM or Surefire can would be any more accurate.

</div></div>

I should note the difference is very small. But when I tried to shoot a 300 meter match, 20 round strings, I could tell. If I was putting 5 shot groups out at 100 yards, I question whether I would be able to see a difference. I should probably go out and try this.

Depending on what you want to do with it, you may be fine.

I still like the can. I just can't use it for a 300 meter match.

 

[Slickrick0999]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfoley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Am really hoping my gemtech HVT on order won't negatively impact accuracy. Will post when I get it. Plan to put it on a 308 and 300 WSM. </div></div>
Hope you have better luck with your HVT than I do....

 

[shoepop]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: magnum_99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I still like the can. I just can't use it for a 300 meter match. </div></div>

That would be totally unacceptable to me. A good designed suppressor SHOULD accurately shoot out to whatever range the cartridge is capable of.

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Dump the REPR, and get a rifle that shoots better, like a GAP AR-10!! The rifle is your problem not the suppressor!! I know several people who have or had REPR's that just did not shoot the current one I know of is currently on its 3rd trip back to the factory.

 

[SingleShot85]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep mine is a solid 1/2-3/4 with out the can, and 1/4 with. I have a jet suppressor and it could care less if i run 1rnd a minute or 10 either way the gun and can work wonders.

Kind of sucks though, the extra length and weight are the trade off. for now the extra 1/4" improvement is not worth the difference. </div></div>

Isn't the point to suppress your sound/recoil/muzzle flash? Shouldn't the 1/4" improvement be an added benefit? I'm not seeing your logic , and it looks like you are complaining?

</div></div>


WTF, there's no logic to follow.

Question: is or is not more accurate?
Answer: Yes

I choose not to use the suppressor because the increase is not enough to warrant the extra length and weight in a match setting.

Additionally, I use a muzzle break to control recoil, so that point is moot.

 

[whitefarms4840]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

my can sure tightens my groups with my fn and ar

 

[mmtuning]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Mine opened up slightly. 1/8moa. But I think this is a loaded question and of course this will all depend on type of can, length of barrel, case pressures, type of bullet, etc etc etc. But as an fyi, mine is 260 w a 30 cal suppressor.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I choose not to use the suppressor because the increase is not enough to warrant the extra length and weight in a match setting.

Additionally, I use a muzzle break to control recoil, so that point is moot. </div></div>

That statement clears it up I wasn't thinking "run and gun". I read your original statement as there was something wrong with the suppressor even though it tightened up your groups. I've got 500 bucks down on an AAC cyclone right now, and I would rather not pay it off and give the government 200 bucks for something I'm going to regret later (could transfer that money into all sorts of other stuff at the dealer).

Happy shooting, we are in the same part of the world, maybe our paths will cross at some point.

 

[MrBrown]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

So when you guys do your initial load work up, are you testing with or without the can mounted?


-Brown

 

[bm11]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrBrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So when you guys do your initial load work up, are you testing with or without the can mounted?


-Brown </div></div>With. 99.99% of my shooting is done with the can on, plus- pressure is higher with a suppressor, so load testing should be done with it on, where it will be safe with the can on and off.

 

[lvmike]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Probably, but im definitely a better shooter with the can so that shows in my groups.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrBrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So when you guys do your initial load work up, are you testing with or without the can mounted?


-Brown </div></div>

I would shoot a good 5-10 rounds and make sure the bullets aren't tumbling at all before putting the can on. In the off chance they do it would suck to lose some baffles

 

[Poundcake]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

My personal experience is not so great, I own one of the coveted SCAR H SD's and while I have not given up on it, have not been impressed at all. It sounds fantastic but shifts POI 1.25 MOA high and right(at the best of its 5 settings) and turned my .25moa APA into a 1 moa rifle..... I am getting ready for more testing, and compiling a wider range of ammo, to see if I can work something out. I think in the future for bolt guns I will stick with thread on models..... either way I am pretty discouraged after the time and money invested.
On the other hand, several of my mil issue rifles, utilizing Knights and surefire, shot fantastic before and after installing the can, with minimal POI shift. So I know it can be done. Heres to hoping.

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

A little more accurate suppressed on all my rifles.

 

[MacM11]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

With the AAC Cyclone, my POI did initially change. Since adjusting for that, I shoot exclusively with it attached and it is every bit as accurate.
And agree- a heat shield, cuts down on suppressor mirage but also holds in heat.

 

[TexasClassIII]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

DEFINITELY do load work up with the can ON. If you are doing loads that are at all 'aggressive' on the powder charge it is highly possible you will run into backpressure issues-especially once the can heats up.

It's so sensitive/finicky I've had pressure problems with an SWR after 10 shots over the course of one hour (it was blowing primers), then put on a Shark and put 20 rounds of the same ammo through in 3 minutes with zero problems. So even varying one from one can manufacturer to another will change your backpressure.

Parker

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasClassIII</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DEFINITELY do load work up with the can ON. If you are doing loads that are at all 'aggressive' on the powder charge it is highly possible you will run into backpressure issues-especially once the can heats up.

It's so sensitive/finicky I've had pressure problems with an SWR after 10 shots over the course of one hour (it was blowing primers), then put on a Shark and put 20 rounds of the same ammo through in 3 minutes with zero problems. So even varying one from one can manufacturer to another will change your backpressure.


Parker </div></div>

Absolutely + 1.

 

[MrBrown]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

Great information! Thanks guys. The rifle came in today so once I bed the stock and get the scope mounted I'll start working on the load (with the can mounted!!

)

-Brown

 

[cheshier2]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

My 300 win PSS and 308 PSS group better with the can on, SWR Omega 30. Same goes for my Remy 700 in 220 Swift, AAC M4 2000,, I think thats what I have on it. LOL..

 

[shoepop]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And agree- a heat shield, cuts down on suppressor mirage but also holds in heat. </div></div>

Really is a must have at least here in the desert.

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: Is your rifle as accurate w/ suppressor as w/ out?

I never change the load suppressed vs. unsuppressed and our cans have always made the rifles effectively more accurate. Hard to say if it's the gun, the shooter, or a combination.