Feedback Issues @mr.quick

[Kjp616]

On January 9th I purchase this seating die from @mr.quick. Paid for the item through PayPal using friends and family (owness of responsibility on me here I realize) we exchanged numbers and spoke at length in text about not only the purchase but many other things. He seemed for all intents and purposes, to be a great guy that could be trusted and I still believe that could be true and this is by no means an attempt to prove otherwise. During our conversation he mentioned several other items that he had that I purchased as well (bullet puller, 147gr ELD - M pills) all paid for immediately through PayPal.
Items were shipped and USPS tracking info given. USPS temporarily lost the item and it took a week long trip out of the way but finally arrived at my mailbox. What I received that day was a sealed empty priority mailer box in the mail (I still have yet to open the empty box) I immediately made @mr.quick aware of the situation and he called and assured me he'd remedy the problem. I gave him the benifit of the doubt even though receiving a sealed but empty box in the mail that was supposed to contain 3lb 5.3 oz, according to the label. I also immediately went to my local post office, small town, where I spoke with the Post master and the Mail carrier who dropped off the pkg. They had no lost items from pkgs in their office, so that was ruled out. I also asked if the pkg was ever weighed throughout the delivery process so we could see if it somehow fell out and someone resealed the box (it is not weighed along the way by the way) and to also ask if the label with the weight of the pkg at the time of shipping, was generated by the USPS or by the shipper. I was informed it was generated by the shipper and not by USPS so not something that they weighed before shipping. I asked the probability of recovering the items if indeed they did somehow fall out of the box during shipping and was told that the likelihood of theses particular items being found or returned was slim to none. I informed the seller of this and asked that he just go ahead and refund me the monies paid. It was at this point he stated that a refund was never mentioned or discussed, however it most certainly was on the phone. He said he wanted me to file the $50.00 insurance claim (total of items shipped over $100) I explained that any claims would need to be done by the shipper. He then again refused to refund the money as he wanted to "investigate the loss" he filed a lost pkg claim, however the issue isn't a lost pkg its an empty pkg. I politely explained to him on several occasions that the responsibility and liability of the pkg is on the shipper until the pkg arrives as described. To this he has stated its not fair that he should have to shoulder the loss since its not his fault.
I'm trying my best to wrap my head around this logic as, if the tables were turned I'd immediately refund the payment with a huge apology to boot. Mind you I would not use USPS, I'd have pictures of the items shipped and pkg, and make sure the item was thoroughly sealed and secured and Fully insured.
I'm not saying that I was shipped an empty box from the get go, nor am I saying that, as you'll see in the pics, someone in the process of delivering the pkg took the contents out of the box and then carefully put the box back together, but something had to happen. At this point the seller has only offered to refund half the funds as he feels that "that is only fair" and that I should shoulder half the cost. To me this is ridiculous, however please correct me if I'm wrong. Attached you'll find pics of the box as it was received and as it still stands to this day. I of course have copies of all communications between the seller and myself (one includes as reference and to his statement of what he feels is fair) as well as the phone call that took place.
The loss is on me, and I'll address that, this is simply a cautionary tale and a question as too responsibility as to the Safe arrival of goods promised and paid for.

 

[Fat Dark Earth]

Let me state the obvious.
you got scammed or stolen from, either by the seller or the post office employee.
Either way that is no fault of yours and it is the sellers responsibility to file the claims.
That being said half the fault is with you. He has absolutely no feedback score and from what I can tell has minimal to no transaction history.
Your first mistake was sending money friends and family to someone that is unproven.
Tough lesson to learn but in the future I would negotiate the cost of insurance (shipping or PP G&S) into your deal. If the seller isn’t willing to do that then I would walk away.

 

[bachelorjack]

Ive had something arrive damaged from USPS. Instructed the seller to file the $50 claim and he refused. Told me I could send it back for a refund or keep it

And he is a moderator here...

Let that sink in

 

[Kjp616]

Let me state the obvious.
you got scammed

I would normally 100% agree with you. I work in law enforcement and have for many years so am normally very skeptical. In this case, despite all signs pointing to deception, I feel there is still the possibility that something else happened. Perhaps the items did fall out and USPS just popped the empty box back together, I can't prove this either way. What I'm attempting to do is give someone the opportunity to make something right and to possibly educate myself since there is apparently someone out there that feels that once the pkg leaves their hands that ends their responsibility with it. Where there is one there could be more, and perhaps I have a skewed view of service and responsibilities.

 

[ma smith]

That box, appears as if it isn't sealed or taped, IMHO if thats true, it may have no fundamental integrity. First step is to get an empty box from PO (they are free) and examine how the box is put together, direct from the PO (often there is a couple sticky tabs, etc). IF, upon more careful evaluation, one determines the package has no fundamental integrity, that's a problem for any person trying to establish a chain of custody.

 

[Kjp616]

That box, appears as if it isn't sealed or taped, IMHO if thats true, it may have no fundamental integrity. First step is to get an empty box from PO (they are free) and examine how the box is put together, direct from the PO (often there is a couple sticky tabs, etc). IF, upon more careful evaluation, one determines the package has no fundamental integrity, that's a problem for any person trying to establish a chain of custody.

Correct it is only sealed by means of the label on one side. The other is a simple mechanical closure that can be manipulated open or closed by way of a tab. This is the reason I, and I would assume most, use packing tape to secure a box. Where I'm perplexed is that if it did spontaneously open and the contents fell out, did it also close on its own accord? Did a postal worker put it back together? Both options honestly seem highly improbable in my opinion.

 

[Kjp616]

Ive had something arrive damaged from USPS. Instructed the seller to file the $50 claim and he refused. Told me I could send it back for a refund or keep it

And he is a moderator here...

Let that sink in

I'd happily send him back the empty box as received for a refund.

 

[Iamero]

Yea that’s on the seller. I shipped 1000 bullets with about $300 value but didn’t insure it for more than the $50. It was 3 boxes within the flat rate box. There was one tear along a seam and somehow all 3 boxes inside there magically slipped out and nothing was recovered at the receivers PO or the main hub it went through. It sucked being the seller but I ate the $300 and refunded him and claimed my measly $50. Clearly it was stolen by USPS but there was no way I was getting more than my insured amount.

Lessons learned:
1) insure packages of value. It’s worth the extra
2) deal with reputable members if at all possible.
3) pay with goods and services and pay the 3% fee if it isn’t a reputable member.

Hopefully the seller does good by you but time will tell.

 

[ma smith]

OP, the seller is never going to get any insurance payout if the box has no integrity. Precisely for the reaoson you raised--you cannot tell if the box ever was tampered with or even if it was fulfilled intially (becaue, eg there was no 3rd party verification of the box weight). So the seller is going to take that loss 100%.

Because of that, you only have good faith to help you out. If it was an inherently fraudulent transaction, you're unlikely to get a refund from the fraulent part. If it was an honest mistake, you have a non-zero chance of a refund, but once the seller realized he wont be covered by insurance, getting a refund wil stil be more difficult than it would otherwise.

Im pretty sure you can get that box, assembly it, put a die in it, and shake it (over the bed or something padded) and the die will go flying out immediately...just becaue the die is sort of heavy/dense and that box as you mentined comes apart readily with out sealed sides using tape.

Again that doesn't tell you who was responsible, ultimately for the dissapearance, but it does tell you its not "sufficent" packaging, and therefore the sender acted in negligence deciding to send the box without tape (ie, testing it was secure). And that neglicence to act with due care make seller/sender responsible to refund you if there was a problem because of "bad" decision.

[edit: alot of gist communicated above by another poster is very similar]

 

[bribassguy]

Here's the counterpoint.

USPS will not give you tape. If you show up to the counter or the kiosk and grab a flat rate but it's only sealed on one of the sides, the other 2 a tabs, and the 4th is a fold. I have many times gone with a smaller item to the kiosk threw it in a flat rate box and used the kiosk to make the label. The label doesn't look home made on a printer. It's sticky back correct?

I think it's likely that the box was opened on purpose or failed in transit and was repaired along the way. It could have been opened at any point during the time or even after delivery... let's not assume that seller is a fraud and that the USPS is not capable of this.

 

[Huskydriver]

Ive had something arrive damaged from USPS. Instructed the seller to file the $50 claim and he refused. Told me I could send it back for a refund or keep it

And he is a moderator here...

Let that sink in

Wtf.....

 

[Kjp616]

Here's the counterpoint.

USPS will not give you tape. If you show up to the counter or the kiosk and grab a flat rate but it's only sealed on one of the sides, the other 2 a tabs, and the 4th is a fold. I have many times gone with a smaller item to the kiosk threw it in a flat rate box and used the kiosk to make the label. The label doesn't look home made on a printer. It's sticky back correct?

I think it's likely that the box was opened on purpose or failed in transit and was repaired along the way. It could have been opened at any point during the time or even after delivery... let's not assume that seller is a fraud and that the USPS is not capable of this.

As stated in my post, the post office confirmed its not their label and is in fact one made/generated by the shipper. Sticky backed labels can be printed at home, I do so myslef at times. At no time have I stated or assumed he is a fraud, I have actually stated otherwise and have done my part in giving him every benifits of the doubt even with all signs pointing otherwise.
No matter if they have tape or not, I for one always insure items are secured and boxes taped, I never assume that the post office will let me use their tape.
Let me also address the fact that you state it could have been open after delivery. The box was retrieved from my mailbox by me, nobody else accessed this box, verified through surveillance video. So that leaves me, I assure you I have better things to do with my time and money then hope someone sends me an unsecured /unsealed box so that I may attempt to defraud them. I am a man of honor and integrity, and I for one would never jeapordize my core values like that. However technically you are correct and someone of lesser values could do such.

 

[ma smith]

Here's the counterpoint.

USPS will not give you tape. If you show up to the counter or the kiosk and grab a flat rate but it's only sealed on one of the sides, the other 2 a tabs, and the 4th is a fold. I have many times gone with a smaller item to the kiosk threw it in a flat rate box and used the kiosk to make the label. The label doesn't look home made on a printer. It's sticky back correct?

I think it's likely that the box was opened on purpose or failed in transit and was repaired along the way. It could have been opened at any point during the time or even after delivery... let's not assume that seller is a fraud and that the USPS is not capable of this.

Many if not all of the USPS flat rate boxes require tape to assemble. USPS does not provide tape, they sell it. Customer is required to buy and use tape on own responsibility. So on those points, it is important to be clear/precise terms of facts/policy etc when talking about resposibility or negligence with respect to the sender's packaging.

However I will agree that up until about 5 years ago, if you paid for FRB, the PO would FOR FREE tape your box secure as part of their service. They stopped offering this "value added step" at some stage (=greed, etc) not all that long ago.

Hopefully that makes more sense as to where I was coming from
Cheers.

 

[Fat Dark Earth]

I would normally 100% agree with you. I work in law enforcement and have for many years so am normally very skeptical. In this case, despite all signs pointing to deception, I feel there is still the possibility that something else happened. Perhaps the items did fall out and USPS just popped the empty box back together, I can't prove this either way. What I'm attempting to do is give someone the opportunity to make something right and to possibly educate myself since there is apparently someone out there that feels that once the pkg leaves their hands that ends their responsibility with it. Where there is one there could be more, and perhaps I have a skewed view of service and responsibilities.

Sure. I did read between the lines. I understand what you’re doing and I commend you for being so positive and also trying to further a solid response and reinforce accountability.

Fortunately for me I’m not involved in the transaction so I can call it out how I see it. Regardless of all that it is the sellers responsibility to package the items correctly. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the way that person packages items could be very similar to how they think about responsibility or accountability.
Loose…

Thanks for not taking offense to my obvious statements and I hope this gets resolved .
Stay safe out there.

 

[Ridgeback80]

Unfortunately I keep hearing these stories although rarely from two private parties. When coming from suppliers/distributors (ie.midway, st. Clair,ect) I've seen barrel tubes arrive empty, heavy packages from natchez empty! Shipping services know what there looking for. With the current anti 2A climate and shortages of shooting supplies I would expect alot more of this type of bs ! So as stated above we need to do our do diligence and deal with reputable sellers, insure packages, pay the paypal fees ect,ect !
So for you if the seller offered you half back that's probably the best your gonna get because the usps don't give a shit !
Just sayin!

 

[TxWelder35]

I’ve shipped a lot of flat rate usps.

that looks like the label from the post office to me. They weigh the package when I drop it off. And weight is recorded then. They have to weigh it so they can track weight when it goes

mailing a package with zero tape is stupid af and 100% on the seller.

sucks to suck and I would hate to eat that loss for being stupid.

 

[TxWelder35]

If he’s willing to refund half I’d take what I can get, you have no real recourse

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Several things stand out to me.

First, as a seller I always insure for the entire cost of the package including the cost of shipping, whether it is discussed or not. I simply consider that good service.

Second, as a seller, I always use copious amounts of tape to ensure this very thing does not happen. Again, simply good service.

Third, that box is damaged at the least, and possibly tampered with. Reference the photos attached.

Fourth, when I ship from home, the label has a “Click N Ship” logo at the top of the label. The package you received says “Retail”

Lastly, the package has hand written addresses on it. I find this odd. When I ship from home, I type in the address directly as it is given by the buyer, no need to write it on the box too. When I go to the kiosk, same thing, no reason to write on the box.

To me, this seems more likely to be a con job by some postal worker than a con job by the seller (they usually disappear as soon as they get the money, and certainly wouldn’t pay $8.30 to ship an empty box). That said, I’d say seller is still the responsible party. At the very least he could have better secured the package and taken a couple pictures prior to shipping (at least to prove the at fault party in situations like this).

 

[Kjp616]

As stated in my post, the post office confirmed its not their label and is in fact one made/generated by the shipper. Sticky backed labels can be printed at home, I do so myslef at times. At no time have I stated or assumed he is a fraud, I have actually stated otherwise and have done my part in giving him every benifits of the doubt even with all signs pointing otherwise.
No matter if they have tape or not, I for one always insure items are secured and boxes taped, I never assume that the post office will let me use their tape.

If he’s willing to refund half I’d take what I can get, you have no real recourse

It's a thing of principle and integrity for me. As I stated I could be wrong, but I feel most people doing honest business in the same situation would refund the money. As stated this is a cautionary tale and most likely a vain attempt at giving a member here the opportunity to do, at least what I feel, is the right thing.
In all honesty if the money owed means that much to someone then they most definitely need it more then I do.

 

[demonjigger]

I would contact law enforcement and see what happens. If it was a postal worker, they need to be held accountable. Good luck.

 

[Mr.Kirk]

When I ship the lightest of things, I tape that box the F up. If I were going to play the empty box game w you, I’d skip the tape. No tape makes it all seem possible.

 

[Josh1978]

When I purchase something from someone on SH I always check their feedback first. No feedback throws a flag for me to be cautious. I always feel better about buying items from someone that has positive feedback from past transactions. Just something to think about in the future. Good luck and I hope everything works out for you.

 

[buffalowinter]

Postal insurance is a scam. I have never had a claim approved for an item that was delivered and broken in transit by usps.. If USPS manages to actually deliver the item but it is broken all to hell, they feel they have done their job and the rest is your problem.

 

[Kjp616]

I want to make sure it's clear that I have not accused anyone of fraud, nor have I said it was done on purpose. Plain and simple the issue I take, no matter the reason for the loss, is that the onus of responsibility and the delivery of goods promised lies with the shipper and not the buyer.

 

[Ckleeves]

Not taking either side here, the seller should have insured it for 100% of the value but I know more boxes arrive empty then I would have ever though until it happened to me.

Sold and shipped a high end archery release to a guy in a small flat rate, didn’t have tape in my truck that day and since it was only going a few hundred miles didn’t really think twice about it (lesson learned) The guy calls me absolutely fuming saying I ripped him off. Apparently the release package, springs, Allan wrenches etc were still in the box but the release was gone.

I refunded him immediately and that calmed him down and then filed my insurance claim etc. Guy at the local usps told me it happens all the time. Small flat rates are the most common because you can open them in about 2 seconds and most people don’t tape them. The release guy told me the package looked untouched so I’m not sure if these guys are using a double sided tape on the flap after they remove the contents or what. Tape em up tight!

 

[pinhead]

The small flat rate boxes have a self adhesive that on the long edge to seal the box. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t use the USPS app on your phone and use “Click N Ship”. You copy/paste their info in and get a tracking number within a minute or so, and I always PM the tracking number to the buyer immediately. Then I print the label and tape the entire label to the box, using the packing tape to cover the entire label. It also kind of weather proofs the label since the entire label is sandwiched between the tape and the box, and the tape extends all the way around to seal the box. If anyone has bought anything from me they have seen it. I either drop it off at the Post Office or my friendly USPS lady picks it up from my mailbox and scans it in. Easy peasy.

 

[TheHorta]

I just don’t get these penny-ante feuds. It’s not like we’re talking bankrupting amounts of money here. If I’m the seller and someone has an issue for something that costs X hundreds of dollars, I don’t hesitate to make it right — even if the buyer was a dick (not saying that applies here).

I’m not risking my personal word or reputation on a dink deal.

I just don’t get it. Seriously. Help a brother out here.

 

[kriller134]

Ive had something arrive damaged from USPS. Instructed the seller to file the $50 claim and he refused. Told me I could send it back for a refund or keep it

And he is a moderator here...

Let that sink in

It seems like you’re insinuating something here. I think that’s a very fair offer. I take it as the seller doesn’t care enough about fifty bucks to sit on the phone with dumb fucks from the postal service. It’s not like he said no I’m not refunding you.

 

[Bully]

I just sent a bunch of 45acp bullets to a buyer. Box was 62 pounds. I double boxed it and taped the hell out of it. Additionally I reached out with the tracking number and tracked it on my end.
Why?
Because it was a really heavy box that easily could have failed at any point along the journey and I wanted to be sure that it arrived in one piece. I kept the money in my PP in order to refund the buyer if it came to that.
That's what I did.
I also shipped a BCG to someone and after it arrived was informed that it is a "fake" (Umbrella Corp., don't ask..). The money was refunded as soon as I had BCG in hand and I even refunded his shipping.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It's unpleasant and thankfully pretty rare in this microcosm of a community that we are a part of. Hopefully it gets straightened out quickly.

 

[Joelives]

there are many ways to help verify a seller . One of the best is a picture with the product and todays paper (if you live in luksenburge you will probably not have a current paper from the Boise statesman) . you can google area codes and some times they don't match , flag , call it out ,people move and keep cell numbers. google the address , often it will come up as a old real estate listing with exterior and interior pictures . it usually freaks people out if you ask if they repainted the kitchen or bedroom , but they can take a picture in the kitchen that matches the old listing . I personally have one transaction going on now where the seller had 1 of 2 cases of ammo (200rd 308 175) damaged in transit and returned to seller (UPS). what he got back was only 2 boxes left in the case . he is filing a claim , and it sucks some one took 8 boxes ($320) . another here on the hide (500 rd case 308 175) funds sent certified mail , signed for the 13th . 9 days no shipping update as of yet , I will see what happens . overall I have had good experiences over 30 years . thanks Joe

 

[Kjp616]

L

I just sent a bunch of 45acp bullets to a buyer. Box was 62 pounds. I double boxed it and taped the hell out of it. Additionally I reached out with the tracking number and tracked it on my end.
Why?
Because it was a really heavy box that easily could have failed at any point along the journey and I wanted to be sure that it arrived in one piece. I kept the money in my PP in order to refund the buyer if it came to that.
That's what I did.
I also shipped a BCG to someone and after it arrived was informed that it is a "fake" (Umbrella Corp., don't ask..). The money was refunded as soon as I had BCG in hand and I even refunded his shipping.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It's unpleasant and thankfully pretty rare in this microcosm of a community that we are a part of. Hopefully it gets straightened out quickly.

I agree that in this community (the active participants in it that is and from what I gathered @mr.quick is an active member) an issue like this is rare. My encounters with 99% of everyone not only here but at venues, local gun shops, swap meets and NRL gatherings has always been positive and full of the type of people I not only wish to associate with but I feel are kindred spirits as well. Sadly there will always be the outliers and this will never change. One just has to take note of those outliers and move forward knowing that the majority outweighs the minority.

 

[hafejd30]

I don’t have time to read everything above. However, just looking at this Mr. Quick profile has several red flags.

Zero feedback even tho he’s posted a lot in the PX section

Most comments seem to be “fillers”. Questions directed at items in the px

Edit: I always insure what I ship for what it’s worth. Because threads like this come up constantly and get frank annoyed when parties start complaining.

If this was shipped from a post office etc the weight on the label would be what the package was when sent by the seller. That wouldn’t have been jeopardized by the seller after that. If printed at home then anyone’s guess.

Shipping anything usps right now is a mess and a risk. So this may be a legit issue with usps

In the seller’s defense, if he sold you several items and all but one arrived then likely usps issue. If I was going to scam you it be for the whole lot and not just a piece

Good luck either way

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ive had something arrive damaged from USPS. Instructed the seller to file the $50 claim and he refused. Told me I could send it back for a refund or keep it

And he is a moderator here...

Let that sink in

You were offered a full refund and refused. Pretty easy. Send it back to me right now and when it arrives, I’ll still issue the refund Plus your shipping. You also have a very bad habit of “instructing“ people you have no authority over. If I’m not being perfectly clear, I’m calling you an asshole.

Let that sink in.

 

[Dthomas3523]

For the actual topic, this is not a retail stor. And unless dealing with a commercial business (I’m not, despite the incorrect tag), the issue of insurance and such should be covered during the transaction.

Seller should give the option of insurance and if the buyer turns it down, that’s on them. As it seems in this case, this conversation didn’t take place.....there is no right or wrong answer. You’ll get different opinions.

The most we will get involved if there isn’t a clear scam is to tell the two parties to work it out privately. If that can’t be done and it continues publicly, both are removed temporarily or permanently. We aren’t at that point, just laying it out there.