It amazes me that people in 2025 still believe this....

Great thread and discussion, a topic of which I've always found... I'll say perplexing and have spent a lot of time learning/researching about it. The fact that 60 years later the questions being asked today are very much the same that have been asked for the past six decades but without any resolution despite nearly all imaginable government resources thrown at it and countless experts performing independent research, experiments/tests, etc and we still continue to go in the same circles.

One of the elements of that day in November & the investigation that occurred afterwards that seemingly used to get a lot of attention and then over the decades seemed to just stop being part of the conversation (although I don't recall an explanation ever being offered for such was what became known as the Babushka Lady and I always found the mannerisms of the individual to be out of place and one of those oddities that never seemed to 'work' with the WC's otherwise self-assessed glowing reports of how well the government handled and thoroughly investigated every possible lead.

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Another element of the discussion/event I always found to be... irregular with all of the conclusions that came out of the WC was LHO's statement of being a patsy. See it for yourself...



That always struck me as an incredibly odd statement given the sequence of events that recently occurred prior to it and either theory that (1) he was the sole gunman or (2) he was an innocent bystander completely ignorant of what was going on (all of which we do know to be factual unlike much else of the narrative before or afterwards).

The president was shot very publicly in the area in which both believers of both theories seem to agree on that he was in the area (thusly aware of what had just occurred) and within something like 2 hours this 24 year old was found in a theater due to the luckiest of lucky tips, is surrounded by law enforcement and media. Cameras, microphones, bright flashes, scores of people yelling all around him as he's being whisked in a directly and he calmly says, of all things, that he's a patsy.

Not that he's confused, he doesn't show signs of panicking, he's not pleading his innocence, nor is he boasting about his accomplishment either. He just calmly asks for legal representation and declares himself to be a patsy. I find that by itself to be incredibly unusual.

One would think he'd be a bit scared/panicking but no. If he did it, I'd love to see how that'd compare against a real psychological workup on any attempted lone presidential shooter to not take satisfaction in what they've accomplished in front of the world and have their name forever associated with that achievement which I'd have to be a very large part of what would contribute to the drive to someone motivated to pursue that. But he just calmly asks for a lawyer and says he's a patsy...

I was full of piss and vinegar as well at 24 but in that situation and the otherwise 'shock & awe' of everything occurring to the degree which it was, at the pace it was, and the auditory, visual, and mental stimulations all being thrown at him simultaneously... to be that calm... that's just rather hard to believe.

On the LHO questions I've long held- the other thing (yes there are many, many "things" but wanted to share more personal thoughts unique to me and not the same points rehashed over and over) I wanted to share was given the assumption that one could get all of those shots off/in the time stated/and with the accuracy required- this is a great audience to ask if all those things are true- what about the question of whether he was also able to seat the butt of the rifle securely in his shoulder pocket...?

I know that might sound weird (but hear me out), I assume most here have a lot of experience shooting rifles/certainly more than in most other discussion threads on this. Well the Carcano was built like many other rifles of that era with a metal (I think steel) 'butt pad'. If you've ever shot a rifle of that era slightly loose in your shoulder pocket, it's going to thump ya pretty dang good and LHO wasn't exactly a large statured fellow & I believe he was arrested wearing nothing but a plain white t-shirt. I've made that mistake myself wearing a t-shirt with similar rifles and I'll tell ya, it left a bit of a bruise when I got ever so sloppy with my fundamentals.

Where I'm going with that, I believe Ruby then killed LHO two days later (with a Colt Cobra 38 Special if I'm not mistaken) so the bruise would have shown (assuming my unique/LD theories hold any water) but I don't recall that ever being mentioned from the autopsy report or WC as supporting evidence that he fired those shots.

Anywho, those are my more individual questions.

-LD

 
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Great thread and discussion, a topic of which I've always found... I'll say perplexing and have spent a lot of time learning/researching about it. The fact that 60 years later the questions being asked today are very much the same that have been asked for the past six decades but without any resolution despite nearly all imaginable government resources thrown at it and countless experts performing independent research, experiments/tests, etc and we still continue to go in the same circles.

One of the elements of that day in November & the investigation that occurred afterwards that seemingly used to get a lot of attention and then over the decades seemed to just stop being part of the conversation (although I don't recall an explanation ever being offered for such was what became known as the Babushka Lady and I always found the mannerisms of the individual to be out of place and one of those oddities that never seemed to 'work' with the WC's otherwise self-assessed glowing reports of how well the government handled and thoroughly investigated every possible lead.

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I don't believe I've ever heard or saw anything about the Babushka lady. Was she ever identified ? Looking at those pictures her behavior seems odd as if she was clued in.
 
Didn't the Nixon tapes have a moment where Nixon tells the CIA director that he knew what happened to JFK - followed by stunned silence from the director?

And I believe Nixon was conveniently removed from office through the Watergate scandal shortly after that moment. Several CIA agents were involved in that scandal, and somehow a naval intelligence officer turned junior reporter was allowed to break the biggest story of that decade.

:unsure:
 
I don't believe I've ever heard or saw anything about the Babushka lady. Was she ever identified ? Looking at those pictures her behavior seems odd as if she was clued in.
As with anything else on this topic- it's not a straight answer. One person claimed that she was it but some agents confiscated her film and that was that but I don't think it was ever verified to be anything other than hearsay years afterwards. The importance, or at least initial importance is that she appears to be filming from a different angle (the seemingly odd behavior is secondary to the film)

I'll share a quick article about her if you'd like to get a bit more information than I've shared here.

 
No, the film does not. There is some debate over the skull x-rays. And some possible evidence there. It's very much like everything else. Some inconsistency leveraged against the preponderance of the evidence. Lewis W Alvarez's (noble prize winning physicist) analized the film and agreed he was shot from the rear. His published assemnt was backed up by other independent studies listed.


10.Alvarez L.W. A physicist examines the Kennedy assassination film. Am. J. Phys. 1976;44(9):813–827. [Google Scholar]
11.Lattimer J.K., Schlesinger E.B., Merritt H.H. President Kennedy's spine hit by first bullet. Bull. N. Y. Acad. Med. 1977;53(3):280–291. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
12.Lattimer J.K., Lattimer J.K., Lattimer G., Haubner E., Laidlaw A., Forgett V. Differences in the wounding behavior of the two bullets that struck President Kennedy; an experimental study. Wound Ballist. Rev. 1996;2(2):13–37. [Google Scholar]

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When the Parkland doctors were shown the photos of JFK’s head, they all reacted by saying, “Who is that?"

Dr. McClelland specifically describes the rear/occipital region of JFK’s head having a 7” cavity with parts of the cerebellum falling out as Dr. Perry and others worked on establishing the tracheostomy. From the other doctors’ positions, they could not see the 7” cavity in the rear. The above diagram never matched up with what was seen in Parkland.

There’s a group interview they did with the Parkland Doctors in 2013 that was halted from being aired, not released until 2023. You will be interested to see what they all said about the conflicting evidence in the body, especially the presentation of the skull.

None of those PhDs mentioned have anywhere near the experience in terminal ballistics research.

Lattimer was a freaking urologist. Lol!

None of those appeals to authority with pedigrees and credentials were experienced in high-speed camera terminal ballistics from high velocity rifles. None of them personally observed terminal performance of high velocity rifle projectiles by the hundreds of thousands as I have. I did a rough count of how many impacts on various forms of ballistic media I have done or analyzed just in the last 15 years, and it exceeds what Edgewood Arsenal did by orders of magnitude.

Edgewood Arsenal wasn’t playing around either. They fired 200 rounds of that ammo through goats, chests, human cadavers, skulls encased in ballistics gel, with velocity screens in between each target medium.

They could never duplicate CE399 when hitting rib and wrist bones.

Someone can be highly-accomplished in the field of medicine or physics, but be utterly incompetent when it comes to fields they have no experience in.

But you don’t need to take my word for it. Simply record a high velocity missile impacting a human skull with tissue simulate from the front, with the head leaned over to the left exactly as JFK was situated. You will easily duplicate Zapruder.

If you shoot it in the back of the head, it will not look like Zapruder. It’s pretty simple.
 
I don't believe I've ever heard or saw anything about the Babushka lady. Was she ever identified ? Looking at those pictures her behavior seems odd as if she was clued in.
Babushka Lady, Umbrella Man, the Tramps from inside one of the rail cars, a Hispanic guy with a Radio, the fake epileptic seizure guy by the Dal-Tex building and ambulance response, the extra helpers installing the new flooring on the 6th floor, and a bunch of other figures have attracted the attention of many people over the years.

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One thing I have intentionally done is try to not read or buy books from any of the “Conspiracy Theorists”. The thing I’ve always been waiting for and hoping would be released is the thousands of classified documents, so I could then analyze them in totality and go from there. I actually read the WC 888pg summary and continue to refer to it, though I don’t treat it as a primary source of evidence. It is suspect as evidence of a cover-up since the conclusions contradict the supporting volumes. CE399 is a perfect example of that, since the WC states that it was found on Connally’s stretcher, but no such bullet was ever found or seen on a stretcher, and the bullet that O.P. Wright picked up off the floor was a Spitzer, not a RNFMJ.

What has given me pause to rely on anyone else’s work is that we’ve heard there would be a release date of 2029, which was just so strange because if there’s nothing to hide, why hide it? I would hate to be invested in a theory and then have withheld evidence finally released that undermines what I thought.

Most of the older assassination researchers have not poured through the Trump 2017 document dump, which is filled with bomb shells from FBI and other govt collected reports from the early 1960s relative to the assassination. Those include:

Ruby and Oswald were seen not only together, but in Key West Florida airport before Oswald boarded a plane for Cuba. Ruby kept mentioning what “Big Bird” wanted done.

It also says that J.D. Tippit was the chairman of the Dallas Chapter of John Birch Society. JBS was assumed to be the source of the WANTED FOR TREASON fliers for JFK, which were not only posted all over Dallas, but advertised in the newspaper.

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One of the FBI 302s says an eye witness saw Dallas PD officer J.D. Tippit with a rifle on/near the overpass.

People that cling to the Warren Commission refuse to address a lot of these pieces of information, and encourage others to just stick to the official LBJ blue ribbon panel, without recognizing that 3 of the Panelists didn’t believe the report and weren’t allowed to document or record their dissenting opinions.
 
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The Warren Report has tons of ballistic testing they did as well. Shooting monkey torsos and such. As a body evidence the Warren report is pretty damn solid no matter how much people.loke to deny it.

It sure seems like alot if trouble to go to rather than just having Oswald shoot him and kill him before rhe he knows he is disposable.
 
The Warren Report has tons of ballistic testing they did as well. Shooting monkey torsos and such. As a body evidence the Warren report is pretty damn solid no matter how much people.loke to deny it.

It sure seems like alot if trouble to go to rather than just having Oswald shoot him and kill him before rhe he knows he is disposable.
The Warren Commission had the FBI and Edgewood Arsenal do extensive testing....in support of the 6.5 Carcano as a sole source firearm for the JFK/Connally/Tague shootings (without telling Edgewood about Tague).

They shot goats, not monkeys. Goats and various structures from human cadavers, to induce human skulls encased in ballistics gel, and human wrist bones. I’ve read through all of the testing Edgewood did. They could NOT duplicate CE399 because the CIA contract ammunition made by WCC had low antimony in the lead, and CE399 is a prop, not a recovered bullet from any actual wounding.

This meant that any time a projectile hit bone, it mushroomed and fragmented like a hunting bullet, even though they were RNFMJs. They concealed from Edgewood that this was CIA Contract ammunition, made in 1954 by WCC. We know exactly who made it and when because unlike most ammunition, the spent cases placed on the 6th floor and remaining cartridges inside the hidden Carcano carbine clip were marked with the lot codes from WCC on the case heads.

These were Lot 6000 (the first lot made that year, followed by 6001, 6002, and 6003). All 4 of those lots were for a CIA contract run through DoD.

Dr. Dolce from Edgewood Arsenal wrote a formal protest letter stating that the conclusions presented to the WC contradicted their tests at Edgewood, mainly because every bullet they fired through a goat thorax mushroomed and/or fragmented. They have plenty of photographs you can now see of their tests. They did them very similar to how we used to do them in a certain medical training center I spent 18 months at. We had a "shoot shack” with high velocity missile wounding mechanism and caprine bracing on one side, and blast injury mechanisms on the other.

Here is an excerpt of what Dr. Dolce said:

I am convinced that the one bullet theory is wrong, because of the fact, that one bullet striking the President’s neck, the Governor’s chest and wrist, should be badly deformed, as our experiments at the Edgewood Arsenal proved.
 
One area I can related to the WC supporters is that they have witnessed all kinds of people with zero firearms, ballistics, or medical experience try to cover down on those topics from the angle of a critic who only got interested in them at a very amateur level because of the assassination.

So we’ve seen all kinds of crazy and valid claims about firearms, bullets, ballistics, and anatomy & physiology that are very easy for professionals in those fields to laugh at.

So many people who are reasoning and pragmatic are easily turned against the critics, and then thinking in binary terms, assume the WC at least has a more comprehensive and reasonable explanation for what happened.

This is why it’s important to focus on the evidence and let the chips fall where they do.

It doesn’t mean the WC is valid, and if you actually read the WC, you start to see how it contradicts itself as a rule across many of the conclusions. I went into it out of natural curiosity with no real awareness of Mark Lane, the Geraldo showing of Zapruder and Nix films in 1975, or anything related to the case. As a gun guy, the claims about the Carcano jumped out at me immediately as something you might be able to trick the common person about, but not me.
 
For example, if you asked most gun people over the years, they were easily convinced a full metal jacket would not deform much, leading many to buy into the Single Bullet Theory and CE399.

They never explained or revealed the extent of the Edgewood Arsenal ballistics testing, and the fact that the bullets had such low antimony content in the lead alloy. We add antimony to lead to make it hard so it doesn’t lead-shower or explode on impact. WCC’s contract for the CIA in 1954 involved using very low antimony, so the bullets were very soft. Whether this was by design or incidental I cannot assert.

But the facts are that it resulted in mushrooming and fragmenting bullets.

This brings us back to the question, where did CE399 come from?

If an attorney were defending one of us in a murder case, it would not be allowed into evidence and should trigger an external investigation into the chain of custody to determine its point of origin as planted evidence.
 
Oswald shot Kennedy with a marginally stabilized 6.5 which upon impact yawed severly (ie magic bullet).

I can't believe people still come up with all these wild theories and spend this much effort on none sense.

Fuck... stop beating the dead horse.
 
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Oswald shot Kennedy with a marginally stabilized 6.5 which upon impact yawed severly (ie magic bullet).

I can't believe people still come up with all these wild theories and spend this much effort on none sense.

Fuck... stop beating the dead horse.
Like the bullet curving the movie. Awesome!
 
Like the bullet curving the movie. Awesome!
No. I have never even seen said movie but always hear it mentioned. Sounds gay as fuck .

Like they do in real life when they hit flesh and other objects and are not stable. Maybe deflection is a better word. Have you seen the autopsy repot of one of the guys(cant remember his name) that rittenhouse shot. One of the rounds curved inside his body, I remember it from the trial.

The Deflection is by design because its a FMJ ( no hollow points/ rules and stuff) so people marginally stablized the rounds so they would do more damage instead of pin hole. Should be well known, especially in this community.
 
Oswald was on the 2nd floor break room, as seen by multiple witnesses immediately before and after the shots being fired.

It’s a non-starter if someone still believes he was in the 6th floor window. It just doesn’t add up.

His story is very interesting in its own right though. He did more by age 24 than the vast majority of people could ever imagine in their lives.

The Hoover memo that was finally declassified in 2017 by Trump states:

"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

In reference to information Hoover stated can’t be revealed publicly:

"There are several aspects which would complicate our foreign relations."

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This memo is interesting:

From: Russ Holmes

SUBJECT: Lee Harvey Oswald

1. Today the DC/CI Staff advised me that the Director had relayed via the DDP the injunction that the Agency was NOT, under any circumstances, to make inquiries or ask questions of any source or defector about OSWALD.

2. I will arrange to have the questions about OSWALD sent to SB/CI for use with the defector Oleg Hyaliu returned to me and will advise C/SB/CI of the injunction.
 
Most Americans have never seen or heard of this portion of an interview LBJ did with Walter Cronkite in 1969, which was censored by order of the WH on grounds of National Security:

 
There's no doubt, lots and lots of books published on this particular topic. I'm not sure if anyone reads anymore but should one be interested, I can personally recommend the book "Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy" by Jim Marrs.

One of the reasons I enjoy that book so often is that the information presented in that book is actually presented very much as this topic is being discussed here with pointing out inconsistencies, providing supporting evidence of such and builds this convoluted web of connections that does (in my opinion at least) a pretty good job at highlighting where the WC's report seems to diverge from/omit what seemingly should be rather important details.

Anywho- just wanted to put that quick plug out there for any Hide bibliophiles that may be interested in a deeper dive on the topic in a format resembling how it's being discussed here.

-LD
 
There's no doubt, lots and lots of books published on this particular topic. I'm not sure if anyone reads anymore but should one be interested, I can personally recommend the book "Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy" by Jim Marrs.

One of the reasons I enjoy that book so often is that the information presented in that book is actually presented very much as this topic is being discussed here with pointing out inconsistencies, providing supporting evidence of such and builds this convoluted web of connections that does (in my opinion at least) a pretty good job at highlighting where the WC's report seems to diverge from/omit what seemingly should be rather important details.

Anywho- just wanted to put that quick plug out there for any Hide bibliophiles that may be interested in a deeper dive on the topic in a format resembling how it's being discussed here.

-LD
One thing I’ve noticed about any topic is this: He who usually gets first presentation, enjoys a bias towards their ideas on that topic.

The Warren Commission Report Summary itself has steered the whole conversation away from the totality of the evidence, and is basically an 888 page “This is the case for why we think Oswald, and Oswald alone did it."

It’s one of the reasons I like to learn everything I can about something from as many different sources as possible, provided those sources are well-researched and accurate. The WC is voluminous, where the Volumes contradict the 888pg conclusion. Great strategy, because they knew almost nobody would ever read the 888pg summary, let alone the encyclopedic "supporting volumes".

My apprehension about the various assassination research literature is that many conclusions were drawn early-on without access to comprehensive information, though most authors have done impressive amounts of research. Most authors are not ballisticians, ER Docs, or Intelligence professionals. They had to learn about those topics after-the-fact in a limited-information environment that required actual legwork and witness interviews.

People in the US up until 1963 were extremely trusting, only had 3 major TV news stations (CBS, NBC, ABC), a few magazines, and newspapers that fed them the same story from the AP. Starting with the assassination of JFK, followed by MLK and RFK, the 1960s broke a lot of the trust people had in the system. Combined with LBJ’s reversal of JFK’s position on Vietnam and the ensuing war where 58,281 US personnel were KIA, 153,372 WIA, and 1,584 MIA, there was a massive shift in the public trust among young and old alike.

iu


That led to the Church Committee Hearings and HSCA in the 1970s. Most Americans are not aware of what happened with the Church Committee or HSCA and the AARB. I’ve always wondered how the 1960s JFK assassination authors would handle their manuscripts, given the incremental drip of declassified documents over the years, and especially now after the 2017 document dump.

We’re in a totally different era now where legacy corporate presstitute brothelslop is openly-ridiculed and has very low viewership, while an unfathomable number of micro and macro channels online dominate people’s attention.

It will be interesting to see who actually studies the thousands of pages of declassified documents that Trump will order opened-up. There is a lot of material already that has not been processed since the 2017 dump. The legacy assassination authors have already done their books from the 1960s-forward, but I haven’t seen any new blood open up the 2017 document dump and look at the case with a clean sheet.

What I do know is that the Presstitute corporate media all in-unison ran headlines in 2017 saying, “Nothing to see here really, no bombshells".....except LBJ and Hoover discussing how Oswald needed to be quickly pinned as the lone assassin, not to mention any of the countering or confusing evidence, that Oswald and Ruby knew each other and were seen working together, that key witnesses for the Church Committee and HSCA were ordered not to discuss any defector testimony relative to Oswald, that Hoover knew Oswald was not the guy they had photos of in Mexico City, etc.

Oswald in Mexico City at the Embassy. The US already had a vast photographic and layered surveillance apparatus in key foreign locations at the time, so we would be able to see images of Lee Harvey Oswald if he had actually gone to the Soviet and Cuban embassies, as alleged by the Warren Commission. This is who was in the photos:

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FnKkK0FWIAEhuMp.jpg
 
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One thing I’ve noticed about any topic is this: He who usually gets first presentation, enjoys a bias towards their ideas on that topic.

The Warren Commission Report Summary itself has steered the whole conversation away from the totality of the evidence, and is basically an 888 page “This is the case for why we think Oswald, and Oswald alone did it."

It’s one of the reasons I like to learn everything I can about something from as many different sources as possible, provided those sources are well-researched and accurate. The WC is voluminous, where the Volumes contradict the 888pg conclusion. Great strategy, because they knew almost nobody would ever read the 888pg summary, let alone the encyclopedic "supporting volumes".

My apprehension about the various assassination research literature is that many conclusions were drawn early-on without access to comprehensive information, though most authors have done impressive amounts of research. Most authors are not ballisticians, ER Docs, or Intelligence professionals. They had to learn about those topics after-the-fact in a limited-information environment that required actual legwork and witness interviews.

People in the US up until 1963 were extremely trusting, only had 3 major TV news stations (CBS, NBC, ABC), a few magazines, and newspapers that fed them the same story from the AP. Starting with the assassination of JFK, followed by MLK and RFK, the 1960s broke a lot of the trust people had in the system. Combined with LBJ’s reversal of JFK’s position on Vietnam and the ensuing war where 58,281 US personnel were KIA, 153,372 WIA, and 1,584 MIA, there was a massive shift in the public trust among young and old alike.

iu


That led to the Church Committee Hearings and HSCA in the 1970s. Most Americans are not aware of what happened with the Church Committee or HSCA and the AARB. I’ve always wondered how the 1960s JFK assassination authors would handle their manuscripts, given the incremental drip of declassified documents over the years, and especially now after the 2017 document dump.

We’re in a totally different era now where legacy corporate presstitute brothelslop is openly-ridiculed and has very low viewership, while an unfathomable number of micro and macro channels online dominate people’s attention.

It will be interesting to see who actually studies the thousands of pages of declassified documents that Trump will order opened-up. There is a lot of material already that has not been processed since the 2017 dump. The legacy assassination authors have already done their books from the 1960s-forward, but I haven’t seen any new blood open up the 2017 document dump and look at the case with a clean sheet.

What I do know is that the Presstitute corporate media all in-unison ran headlines in 2017 saying, “Nothing to see here really, no bombshells".....except LBJ and Hoover discussing how Oswald needed to be quickly pinned as the lone assassin, not to mention any of the countering or confusing evidence, that Oswald and Ruby knew each other and were seen working together, that key witnesses for the Church Committee and HSCA were ordered not to discuss any defector testimony relative to Oswald, that Hoover knew Oswald was not the guy they had photos of in Mexico City, etc.

Oswald in Mexico City at the Embassy. The US already had a vast photographic and layered surveillance apparatus in key foreign locations at the time, so we would be able to see images of Lee Harvey Oswald if he had actually gone to the Soviet and Cuban embassies, as alleged by the Warren Commission. This is who was in the photos:

iu


iu


FnKkK0FWIAEhuMp.jpg
Is it me or does that image look a lot like Liam Neeson?

"I will look for you. I will find you. And I will kill you."
 
This is one of the most interesting threads I have seen in all my time here.

I admit that I know little about this subject. I never believed the lone gunman theory after seeing several films and documentaries. The information presented here is exciting.

I will read some of the books and items that people linked to learn more.
 
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Oswald shot Kennedy with a marginally stabilized 6.5 which upon impact yawed severly (ie magic bullet).

I can't believe people still come up with all these wild theories and spend this much effort on none sense.

Fuck... stop beating the dead horse.
When everything the government has is released to the public and shows that it was a lone gunman, LHO, then all the conspiracy theorist will become quiet and disappear .
 
When everything the government has is released to the public and shows that it was a lone gunman, LHO, then all the conspiracy theorist will become quiet and disappear .
Na, Fiction writers like the OP will keep it up. He would do the same thing in the OG ukraine thread, basically baffling with well researched bullshit that was highly apparent to someone who knew better, but would look like well thought out organized research to a layman. Again it was on a different topic, but same shit.

The big??? is not how it happened, that part is simple. Oswald shot and killed Kennedy.

Big question is who pulled the behind the scene strings, thing is, that will never come to light. “They” were smarter than that and got away with it.

Op is chasing delusions. Nothing is in the “ un released gov papers”
 
When everything the government has is released to the public and shows that it was a lone gunman, LHO, then all the conspiracy theorist will become quiet and disappear .
don't fret. they won't release any or all of,unredacted anyway. have sat on it 61 years for a reason. but,if you're right,there is always RFK,MLK,Malcom X,pearl harbor,Tonkin,Iraq,9/11. still trying to bury,unsuccessfully,covid.
 
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This is one of the most interesting threads I have seen in all my time here.

I admit that I know little about this subject. I never believed the lone gunman theory after seeing several films and documentaries. The information presented here is exciting.

I will read some of the books and items that people linked to learn more.
For me and most Americans, we want to know if there was a legitimate, legal transfer of power from one President to another.

We already know it wasn’t peaceful since JFK was whacked in front of the Nation, though we weren’t allowed to see the films until decades later, in effect.

We also want to know if the investigation was conducted dispassionately, without interference and influence from the subsequent WH.

The fundamental underlying major issue here is legitimacy of governmental transition.

We know from the records now that LBJ substantially influenced and directed the WC, even agreeing with dissenting commissioners like Senator Russell that the Single Bullet Theory was hogwash, as long as he got his unanimous seal of approval of the final report. Facts didn’t matter, only the conclusion of the WC.

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Many people noted immediately that placing the CIA Director Allen Dulles (that JFK fired) on the Warren Commission to investigate his assassination was a brazen conflict of interest. What most people didn’t know was that the Dallas Mayor, Earle Cabell, was literally the brother of fired Deputy Director of Central Intelligence, Charles Cabell. JFK fired both DCI Allen Dulles and Deputy Director Charles Cabell after the Bay of Pigs invasion failure. We’re expected to just resign it to coincidence that one of these men was involved in the route planning that would take the President through his eventual kill zone in Dealey Plaza, and that the other just happened to end up on the commission to investigate his assassination.

Kennedy and CIA Director Allen Dulles
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Mayor Earle Cabell welcoming Jackie Kennedy
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General Charles Cabell, Deputy Director CIA

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So they were counting on the docile public to not even notice Allen Dulles on the WC, and knew that people didn’t have the information available to them to make all these connections within the tight circle of coincidences that just happened to line-up before the assassination.

It actually makes Oswald appear out-of-place in so many ways. Then you look at his employment history (his and his mother’s tax records are listed in the master list of documents as classified) and start to scratch your head.

Why would Marguerite and Lee Oswald’s income tax records from 1956-1962 be classified? It’s just weird.

People who are vested in concealing the records don’t want questions about transfer of government being brought up, or certain activities of the agencies being exposed. There are legitimate and criminal reasons why the Bureau and CIA do not want all the files declassified.

People are more interested in the criminal acts of concealment and suborning of obstruction of justice as accomplices to a coup in the US. Most everybody agrees that LBJ was deeply-involved in the white-washing of the whole matter, and minimizing of any of the difficult implications. In his own words, he didn’t believe the fulcrum point of evidence from the WC, and admitted to Walter Cronkite that he was never satisfied that foreign groups weren’t involved in the assassination.

We can’t overlook deflection LBJ's admission to Cronkite, since his own background was jam-packed with numerous felonies, murders, kick-backs, political manipulation, election fraud, intimidation even of members of Congress in the Congressional bathrooms, contract-steering, etc. Johnson was as dirty of a US politician as you will ever come across. He makes some of the current corrupt Senators look like saints.
 
The 3 dissenting Commissioners had their opinions censored from the commission by staffers and other commissioners.

Congressman and Commissioner John Cooper:

iu


Cooper attended 50 of the 94 hearings and rejected the single bullet theory stating that "there was no evidence to show that Kennedy and Connally were hit by the same bullet." Cooper publicly criticized the report's conclusions as "premature and inconclusive", and informed Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy and Senator Ted Kennedy that he strongly felt Oswald had not acted alone. When Cooper expressed his same thoughts to Jackie Kennedy, he stated that "it's important for this nation that we bring the true murderers to justice."

We already covered how Senator Russell didn’t believe the single bullet theory.

Congressman Hale Boggs was the 3rd dissenter, and had a very interesting story in his own political career. He didn’t believe the Single Bullet Theory either.

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On 5 April 1971, he made a speech on the floor of the House in which he strongly attacked FBI Director Hoover and the whole of the FBI. He stated that the FBI had him under surveillance and that they were violating the Bill of Rights. He added that numerous members of Congress had expressed their belief to him in private that the FBI was monitoring their phone conversations and criticized the FBI for placing agents on college campuses in order to infiltrate certain organizations. Boggs demanded the resignation of Hoover and accused the FBI of utilizing "the tactics of the Soviet Union and Hitler’s Gestapo". This speech shocked many, including his own staff and fellow Congress members.

On April 22, 1971, Boggs stepped it up a few notches: "Over the postwar years, we have granted to the elite and secret police within our system vast new powers over the lives and liberties of the people. At the request of the trusted and respected heads of those forces, and their appeal to the necessities of national security, we have exempted those grants of power from due accounting and strict surveillance."

His body still has never been found, after a plane crash in Alaska the following year in 1972.
 
I was reading that DJT said he would release all materials as they pertain to the assassinations of JFK, RFK and MLK. His detractors were of course saying he promised that the first time but he bowed to the pressures of the FBI and CIA not to because it would hurt national security???Hows that?All of these occurrences are 50+ years old so what could be detrimental to todays national security.Is there something in the files that show the Dems plans to open the borders and crash the economy with the flooding of illegals?Were all or any of the afford mentioned trio space aliens and the intelligence community needed to protect their identity.Then HTF does an event 50+ years ago affect todays security?
 
When you read through the existing documents, we pretty much have a lot of docs, just with a lot of names redacted, sources, foreign nationals who risked their lives being assets, and US personnel who “defected” to the Soviet Union that returned to the US and obviously wish to remain unnamed.

There are also collection methods, surveillance system networks, military bases, and related programs who responded to inquiries into whether the Cubans or Soviets were involved, and many of those locations and methods are still there today.

These were what I suspect DCI Pompeo used to convince Trump that they can’t release all the records. This is my best educated guess, having searched a lot of these documents over the years, then making connections based on things I’ve experienced in DoD.

If they reveal that Oswald was actually a US govt asset, it would invalidate the WC and prove to the public that we were lied to the whole time. It will also open up the question as to who really executed the assassination, and did LBJ’s WH and 3-letter agencies participate in covering up what really occurred.

One problem is that Dallas FBI immediately destroyed their large file on Oswald, and he knew FBI agent Hosty. That’s in the WC when Oswald was being interviewed by Capt. Fritz.

One of the most potentially-damning redactions is the response to Hoover when he asked DCI and Director of ONI why Oswald wasn’t detained upon return to the US.
 
Well will we find the truth now? Trump just declassified mlk and jfk
It will mainly remove redactions from a lot of documents that people have been able to see for decades in some cases.

We can’t see the files the Dallas FBI had on Oswald because they were destroyed by FBI Agent James Hosty, per orders from the Dallas SAC, Gordon Shanklin.

Shanklin is the one who had Hosty go down to sit-in on Captain Fritz’s interrogation of Oswald in Dallas PD. Oswald knew Hosty already.

One thing to look for with search terms is a code-worded program called AMSPELL.

CIA had this running in the background to support the narrative that Castro and the Soviets had assassinated JFK.

Richard Helms accidentally let the cat out of the bag in 1992 in an interview:

“We made sure we had no one in Dallas on that particular day."

Correspondent Richard Schlesinger asked “Why did you do that? Had anybody accused the CIA at that time?”

It’s a very suspicious thing for a former Deputy Director and Director of CIA to say.

It would be like an ATF Director saying, “We made sure no ATF agents were in the Murrah Building on that particular day.” (OKC Bombing)

During the course of the Warren Commission, the CIA planted leads to WC staff saying how they had 100% rock solid evidence Oswald was meeting with the KGB Director of Assassinations in Mexico City. They tried to spin the whole thing as a Soviet plot.

Agent Hosty wrote his book, Assignment Oswald, with that as the premise, that Oswald was working with the Soviets as part of an assassination operation against JFK.
 
I don't think Oswald was the shooter and I don't think the Magic Bullet Theory is real.

I don't think it was impossible either to get those hits in.

Does the "L" mount block the irons? If you drop the rifle and run, is it a really good mount that would hold zero?

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Do you guys realize that he also used the same Carcano to shoot at another guy, and missed by half a window-width? How far was that shot?

Marina Oswald testified that Lee told her on April 10, 1963, that he had used the rifle earlier that night in an attempt to assassinate retired U.S. Army General Edwin Walker, a controversial political activist, at Walker's home in Dallas.[16] The bullet was deflected from hitting Walker when it struck a window frame. Oswald escaped, hiding the rifle and retrieving it a day or two later.

Again, I don't think LHO was the killer... but to rule it out as an impossible shot first begins with saying that the rifle is not capable. It is though.
I believe LHO may have been one of the shooters but not one that made the catastrophic hit on the president. I still think there was a team of maybe five shooters and a syncronized volley of shots coming from different locations including the Dal-Tex Bldg. behing the the SBD.
 
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I'm still unclear here. It shows the right frontal lobe blown open in the Zapruder film from a front impact but I don't see the back of his head blown out like the eye witnesses report.
Supersonic lead core bullets decelerate dramatically when passing through skull/head media, and usually lead-shower into the Brian tissue. By the time the fragments and core have reached the back of the head, they are going slower, but still enough to create a large exit.

Dr. McClelland said the back of his head was gone with a 7” exit wound, and the Dallas Mororcycle cops were splattered with brain and blood to the rear of the limo.

The hair and scalp can muffle the exit wound behavior, especially in grainy footage like that.

But looking at the rearward travel of the head from the impact, it’s also clear which direction the momentum was.

The supersonic blood splatter effects at the point of impact are also a dead giveaway for frontal impact.

Scores of eye witnesses saw men with rifles behind the fence line, including the rail yard workers and supervisor from an elevated position in the rail yard control building.

Even Dallas Police Chief Curry said he thought the shooting came from the fence line, and he was in the motorcade.

The WC chose to avoid interviewing or publishing those interviews for their conclusion, and mentioned that people were early mistaken.
 
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Supersonic lead core bullets decelerate dramatically when passing through skull/head media, and usually lead-shower into the Brian tissue. By the time the fragments and core have reached the back of the head, they are going slower, but still enough to create a large exit.

Dr. McClelland said the back of his head was gone with a 7” exit wound, and the Dallas Mororcycle cops were splattered with brain and blood to the rear of the limo.

The hair and scalp can muffle the exit wound behavior, especially in grainy footage like that.

But looking at the rearward travel of the head from the impact, it’s also clear which direction the momentum was.

The supersonic blood splatter effects at the point of impact are also a dead giveaway for frontal impact.

Scores of eye witnesses saw men with rifles behind the fence line, including the rail yard workers and supervisor from an elevated position in the rail yard control building.

Even Dallas Police Chief Curry said he thought the shooting came from the fence line, and he was in the motorcade.

The WC chose to avoid interviewing or publishing those interviews for their conclusion, and mentioned that people were early mistaken.
John Connally and LBJ lured JFK back to Texas on some pretense. JFK argued that he had just been to Texas on a campaign stop but they insisted it was important that he return.

Sen. Ralph Yarborough was first chosen to ride with the President but he said no f'g way so Connally said he'd ride in the car. When the shooting started and he got hit he tipped his hand when he told his wife "Get down Nelle, they're going to kill us all."
 

If you really want to be blown away and see how they did Nixon, watch this:



Some of America’s most prominent, famous journalists have been MOCKINGBIRD operatives for the deep state. That includes Bob Woodward. They have a whole series on Watergate that will really expose what was going on between the JCS, CIA, and Nixon. He wouldn’t give them what they wanted, so they staged a coup using the Watergate Hotel fake break-ins, then planted Bob Woodward with Carl Bernstein at the Washington Post.

G. Gordon Liddy wasn’t allowed to discuss his role in Watergate after he was released from Federal prison.
 
lots of people getting red pilled about shit most of us have known about for a long time.

 
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The first reaction of Kennedy skull was not backward, it was forward, you can see his skull being pushed forward from the bullet exiting. Its that big red spot covering Jacky O's face.

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Above- This is the frame right before his head was struck. Below- Notice the chuck of his skull blocking her face.
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The Jerking motion backward was the body twitching from the trama as he was already in a forward leaning position. The backward jerk was not caused by the Bullet but muscle twitch.


One man, one rifle. Just stop with the bullshit.
 
saw a recommendation of a Napolitano vid about "JFK and the unspeakable" and "hidden history" by a Donald Jefferies. don't have them but are on a wish list. he is also working another to include JFK,RFK,MLK and Malcolm X. the Malcolm X killing hasn't gotten a lot of attention but i have always thought the FBI hired it out to the nation of Islam who apparently did do it. inquiring minds etc.