Gunsmithing ITAR and the hobby gunsmith
- Thread starter Messmaker
- Start date
I can provide you with a document that says if you are doing those things you do need to pay ITAR.
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/documents/ITARRegReqFirearmsManufacturers.pdf
ITAR is a Dept of State thing, so unless is a State document that says you don't its of somewhat dubious value. I've heard ATF telling people that they don't need ITAR registration. But thats not an area they have authority over, so I wouldn't count on that holding any legal value.
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/documents/ITARRegReqFirearmsManufacturers.pdf
ITAR is a Dept of State thing, so unless is a State document that says you don't its of somewhat dubious value. I've heard ATF telling people that they don't need ITAR registration. But thats not an area they have authority over, so I wouldn't count on that holding any legal value.
Thank you.
The main aim reason I'm asking is I have been told multiple times that if you are not buying parts to put together and someone brings you a firearm it is ok to work under a class 1 ffl and do not need a class 7 or manufacture ffl. The grey areas in all of this seem to get larger and larger the more I read and talk to people (ATF and gunsmiths).
The main aim reason I'm asking is I have been told multiple times that if you are not buying parts to put together and someone brings you a firearm it is ok to work under a class 1 ffl and do not need a class 7 or manufacture ffl. The grey areas in all of this seem to get larger and larger the more I read and talk to people (ATF and gunsmiths).
01 vs 07 is an ATF classification
need to pay ITAR registration is Department of State classification
Two different agencies, two different rule sets. You can be an ATF manufacturer and not a Department of State manufacturer. Or potentially the reverse, or be a manufacturer according to both. Depends what kinds of work you perform for your customers.
If you want legal opinions, ask lawyers who work in the firearms business. But they will likely tell you, that the ITAR fee is so small vs the cost of defending against a charge, that it is cheaper to pay ITAR fee and not worry about a potential non-compliance charge if you don't register.
need to pay ITAR registration is Department of State classification
Two different agencies, two different rule sets. You can be an ATF manufacturer and not a Department of State manufacturer. Or potentially the reverse, or be a manufacturer according to both. Depends what kinds of work you perform for your customers.
If you want legal opinions, ask lawyers who work in the firearms business. But they will likely tell you, that the ITAR fee is so small vs the cost of defending against a charge, that it is cheaper to pay ITAR fee and not worry about a potential non-compliance charge if you don't register.
The sad reality of this is it depends on who is "interpreting" the law in your local.
From my experience with Smiths in different states they have heard/been told by their ATF representatives conflicting regulations.
R
From my experience with Smiths in different states they have heard/been told by their ATF representatives conflicting regulations.
R
(This is from the documentation I studied when getting ready for my FFL and SOT designation)
Manufacturing
Even if you aren't a manufacturer for ATF purposes you might be one for State/ITAR purposes. This is because each agency is allowed to make its own regulations. As far as the ATF is concerned, you are only a manufacturer if you are actually making firearms. However, if you are making parts for firearms (Defense Articles) or if you are making certain modifications to firearms (which might only be considered gunsmithing by the ATF and only require a Type 1 FFL), then State considers you a manufacturer for ITAR purposes. ITAR-manufacturers must register with the DDTC.
The yearly fee for registration is $2,250. This fee increases if you've had any trouble or reviews with State. This fee also applies if you are a "broker" of an export.
Due to the confusion of what types of activities constituted "manufacturing" under ITAR, DDTC released some guidance in July of 2016. Although this guidance surely cleared up what the DDTC thought, it created a lot of confusion in the firearms industry. As you can see from the below list of activities which constitute manufacturing under ITAR, some of these activities are things that most people thought were only gunsmithing.
According to the July 2016 guidance from DDTC, the following activities require registration with State under ITAR:
- Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms
- Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity
- The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors)
- The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition
- The machining or cutting of firearms (e.g. threading of muzzles or muzzle brake installation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability)
- Re-chambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling
- Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks
- Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel
- Occasional assembly of firearm parts and kits that do not require cutting, drilling, or machining
- Firearm repairs involving one-for-one drop-in replacement parts that do not require any cutting, drilling, or machining for installation
- Repairs involving replacement parts that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation
- Hydrographic paint or Cerakote application or bluing treatments for a firearm
- Attachment of accessories to a completed firearm without drilling, cutting, or machining—such as attaching a scope, sling, or light to existing mounts or hooks, or attaching a flash suppressor, sound suppressor, muzzle brake, or similar item to a pre- threaded muzzle
- Cosmetic additions and alterations (including engraving) that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation beyond its original capabilities
- Machining new dovetails or drilling and tapping new holes for the installation of sights which do not improve the accuracy or operation of the firearm beyond its original capabilities
- Manual loading or reloading of ammunition of .50 caliber or smaller
but seriously, call lawyer if there is any doubt. Don't just pay because it's cheaper just to avoid any hassle.
When they send you a certified letter with a return receipt requirement, pay attention. Until then do your work and live your life.
I went through this process and IMO it's a total scam. All it did was cost me close to $3K and for what? Not one damn thing....I'm not building/shipping missiles or hand grenades.
I still have to use a 3rd party for export as the whole licensing process ranks right up there with tooth extraction-minus the anesthesia. THEN it becomes even more absurd because if "Bobby" in Australia wants an RPR bolt shroud, HE too is now required to be licensed and established as a dealer. Regardless if he's just a guy who wants a stupid part from here in The States.
All this.... -For a bolt shroud!?? It more resembles a bar stock machined tampon applicator than a gun part.
They wonder why our economy licks the knife that made the shit sammich....
US DoS is even more fecked up now than it was when I worked for them. They are, even after a decade, a taste that I've yet to wash out of my mouth.
Like I said. When they show up and state your not registered but need to be, then take action. Until then, just do your thing. The BATF issued your license. Not DoS.
I went through this process and IMO it's a total scam. All it did was cost me close to $3K and for what? Not one damn thing....I'm not building/shipping missiles or hand grenades.
I still have to use a 3rd party for export as the whole licensing process ranks right up there with tooth extraction-minus the anesthesia. THEN it becomes even more absurd because if "Bobby" in Australia wants an RPR bolt shroud, HE too is now required to be licensed and established as a dealer. Regardless if he's just a guy who wants a stupid part from here in The States.
All this.... -For a bolt shroud!?? It more resembles a bar stock machined tampon applicator than a gun part.
They wonder why our economy licks the knife that made the shit sammich....
US DoS is even more fecked up now than it was when I worked for them. They are, even after a decade, a taste that I've yet to wash out of my mouth.
Like I said. When they show up and state your not registered but need to be, then take action. Until then, just do your thing. The BATF issued your license. Not DoS.
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I talked to DoS about this when I first started. I was told if you were selling a firearm that you machined that you would need to register. I asked if I gave some away to friends would I have to register. He said if they were a gift you would not have to register.
