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It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

Fred_C_Dobbs

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 26, 2010
220
9
74
Outside Magazine, February 2012
Thursday, January 05, 2012 117
<span style="font-size: 14pt">It's Not About the Lab Rats</span>

If Lance Armstrong went to jail and Livestrong went away, that would be a huge setback in our war against cancer, right? Not exactly, because the ­famous nonprofit donates almost ­nothing to scientific research. BILL GIFFORD looks at where the money goes and finds a mix of fine ideas, millions of dollars aimed at “awareness,” and a few very blurry lines.
By: Bill Gifford

BRRRIIIIING!

It’s a journalistic axiom that when your phone rings early on a Monday, from a blocked number, it’s generally not because somebody loves your work. I picked up to hear an angry Lance Armstrong on the line, along with Doug Ulman, the CEO of the Lance Armstrong Foundation—a.k.a. Livestrong. It was 8 a.m. in Austin. They were calling to berate me about what they considered my bias against Livestrong and Lance.

Which seemed strange, since I wasn’t working on a Livestrong article. Not yet, anyway. Granted, I’d been sniffing around and had posted a tweet or two, but nothing more. One of those posts was written on April 17, 2011, the day 60 Minutes aired its report on Greg Mortenson and the Central Asia Institute. According to allegations made by Steve Kroft and Jon Krakauer, Mortenson had used foundation money to fly himself around and promote his books, which were full of lies about his adventures in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Meanwhile, the charges went, the organization wasn’t operating nearly as many schools as Mortenson liked to claim.

“60 Minutes takedown,” I tweeted, “just goes to show that ‘awareness’ is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Admittedly, I had both Mortenson and Armstrong in mind when I wrote this: both were facing legal investigations, and both would end up using their philanthropic work as part of their PR defense. The “awareness” wording was a jab at Livestrong, since raising cancer awareness is a major part of the organization’s mission.

A lame joke, perhaps, but that’s all it was. Still, it made Armstrong livid. “You need to come down here and see what we do,” he said sternly. “Ask us the hard questions.” It was more a command than a request. “I know you’re a hater and you’re gonna write what you write, but I just want you to see it.”

At the time, Armstrong was starting to take some serious flak of his own. The Jeff Novitzky–led federal investigation into his past was dragging former teammates and associates in front of a Los Angeles grand jury. In January, Sports Illustrated published an exposé that supported Floyd Landis’s claims that Armstrong had doped to win his seven Tour de France titles. Now 60 Minutes was said to be working on its own, more damaging story.

In the wake of the Mortenson report, bloggers and journalists (not just this one) were asking pointed questions about Livestrong, the disease-fighting charity that Armstrong founded in 1997, during his recovery from testicular cancer. Cynics wondered whether Armstrong was another Mortenson, living large on his foundation’s dime. After all, Armstrong had recently spent $11 million on a personal jet. Was he really rich enough to pay for that out of his own pocket?

“The issue with Lance Armstrong isn’t whether he has done good for cancer victims,” accounting professor Mark Zimbelman wrote on his blog Fraudbytes, in a post comparing Mortenson to Armstrong, “but rather, whether he first cheated to beat his opponents, then used his fraudulent titles to help promote an organization that appears to do good but also enriches a fraudster.”...



There's another 11 pages I was too lazy to cut-and-paste.
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

Know the charities you support...its pretty simple.

I've never had the "pleasure" of meeting Lance Armstrong but many people I work with have and everyone of them has said hes a jerk.
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

Dang, now I gotta go buy the mag.

Fred, I know youre a Lance hater and even tho I like him I try to keep an open mind about him. Ive heard he's a jerk too. But I still admire what he went thru and what he accomplished after that. I wouldnt want to have brain surgery and a nut cut off then try to become a world class cyclist (or world class anything else athletic).

Doping or not (cycling is full of doping, ya, I know) it was still his ass on the bike for 7 Tours.
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

What I hate about stuff like this is it almost forces a "black or white" issue.

I've read the Armstrong books, I've also heard he's an asshole (more than a jerk) and I think he's an asshole for what he did to his ex-wife.

But I'm a cycling fan. Any anyone who has ever seriously ridden a bike knows that even if you have mechanics, assistants, nutritionists, massage therapists and personal chefs, you still have to spend 4-6 hours a day, every day, in the saddle working your ass off. Sorry, but to even be a contender demands respect in that alone.

To the doping, as JC said cycling is full of doping. So is football, baseball, and probably every other physically demanding sport. Do I think LA doped? Absolutely. Whether he "intentionally" did or whether it happened to be a huge benefit from his cancer drugs and he just "accepted" it doesn't matter. Where there's smoke there's fire and I would not be surprised if it comes out one day that he's as guilty as OJ.

But what makes me laugh about the "purists" is their delusion that if you are doping, or taking steroids or any other performance enhancers is somehow makes your training "easier". True athletes who take that gamble and use PE drugs work HARDER than non-PE drug users. You must to take advantage of any benefits you may receive. If you were a race car driver you wouldn't go out and buy the absolute best components for your car and then slowly drive around the track. You push your car to its limits and take it to the edge. These athletes do the same thing. Does that make it right? NO, but PE drugs or not, human accomplishments like that demand respect. Another example are the world strongmen competitors. Are they taking steroids? Heck yea, but steroids or not, pulling a full size airliner is bad ass. I don't approve of the drug use and feels it degrades any sport. I wish it didn't exist but it does.

For the foundation aspect. As rrflyer says, know who you're giving too. It's like me with the Red Cross. I have a pretty rare blood type and donate blood every chance I can. I don't give to the Red Cross because the way they operate. I choose other organizations that are actually trying to help people rather than just "market" that their helping people. But in looking at the big picture, the Red Cross does make people "aware" of the importance of blood donation. It's the same with the Livestrong campaign. I don't donate to it, but every time I see that yellow swoosh, every time I put on my Livestrong hat (yes, I wear one, it's my workout hat) I don't think about Lance Armstrong, I think about cancer victims. I think about helping those folks who fight to go one because they "feel" Lance is fighting for them. And as we all know perception is reality so if someone is getting chemo and fighting to live because they think Lance is helping, then that is a benefit. So I don't mind the "awareness" aspect as long as one can separate and differentiate the "awareness" from the donation.
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But what makes me laugh about the "purists" is their delusion that if you are doping, or taking steroids or any other performance enhancers is somehow makes your training "easier". True athletes who take that gamble and use PE drugs work HARDER than non-PE drug users. You must to take advantage of any benefits you may receive. If you were a race car driver you wouldn't go out and buy the absolute best components for your car and then slowly drive around the track. You push your car to its limits and take it to the edge. These athletes do the same thing. Does that make it right? NO, but PE drugs or not, human accomplishments like that demand respect. Another example are the world strongmen competitors. Are they taking steroids? Heck yea, but steroids or not, pulling a full size airliner is bad ass. I don't approve of the drug use and feels it degrades any sport. I wish it didn't exist but it does.

</div></div>

Mike, with all due respect, I take exception to this statement. I don't care that he works REALLY hard, and that because he takes PE drugs he must take full advantage by working out even more/longer/harder. However, those PE drugs allow someone to work out longer and harder than the guy who's not taking them, and furthermore LA is then COMPETING against individuals who are not using these drugs. He's then winning money, fame, and recognition over and above the guys who aren't using PE drugs. That's called cheating, and I hate cheaters . . . in sports and in life.

If he wants to use said drugs and become the strongest, fastest, best cyclist ever - great! Just don't lie about it and then compete against people who aren't doping and don't ride in races that are regulated against PE drugs.

All this to say, I don't know if he's uses these drugs or not. If not, great! If so, I'm not going to then give him a pass.

It's like the people who said Bill Clinton didn't have sex with Monica in the WH. But once Clinton came clean, they then said that it doesn't really matter anyway. So, which is it? Does it, or does it not matter? In LA's case, if it doesn't matter, then why are PE drugs outlawed in the sport, and why does LA say that he never used them and that his teamates are lying? It's becuase it does matter! His reputain is on the line and he knows it - so he must therefore defende it whether he's guilty or not.
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

The point I was trying to make was PE drugs doesn't take a fat, lazy guy off the couch and turn him into a world dominating athlete.

I don't think PE drugs are exclusive to LA, or even rare especially in cycling. I would venture to say-based on my speculation alone-that there are more pros taking than not taking PE drugs. I believe they "no names" aren't chased after or pursued as hard as they should be. So if LA is taking PE drugs, I don't believe he is doing so against a "pure natural" field.

I don't think he should be allowed to use his cancer drugs and an excuse. If his cancer drugs gives him an advantage then sorry Lance, you can't ride anymore until you're off.

I'm not a LA fanboy by any stretch. But if those stupid yellow bands or a hat makes someone think about helping cancer victims out-doesn't have to be LA's foundation, then I'm all for it.
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point I was trying to make was PE drugs doesn't take a fat, lazy guy off the couch and turn him into a world dominating athlete.

I don't think PE drugs are exclusive to LA, or even rare especially in cycling. I would venture to say-based on my speculation alone-that there are more pros taking than not taking PE drugs. I believe they "no names" aren't chased after or pursued as hard as they should be. So if LA is taking PE drugs, I don't believe he is doing so against a "pure natural" field.

I don't think he should be allowed to use his cancer drugs and an excuse. If his cancer drugs gives him an advantage then sorry Lance, you can't ride anymore until you're off.

I'm not a LA fanboy by any stretch. But if those stupid yellow bands or a hat makes someone think about helping cancer victims out-doesn't have to be LA's foundation, then I'm all for it. </div></div>

I understand. The drugs don't get you off the couch!!

I have had this discussion with my all cycling friends and they always end at the same conclusion - if the awareness is raised about cancer, then it doesn't really matter in the end. For me, that's never an excuse. We do not live in a vacuum, and to assume that someone else (someone drug free) wouldn't be there to raise awareness about cancer in the absence of LA is a fallacy. It’s a false dichotomy.

I suppose that I’d like to see people take a stronger stance against these sorts of frauds – regardless of the “perceived” good that they’ve done. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We do not live in a vacuum, and to assume that someone else (someone drug free) wouldn't be there to raise awareness about cancer in the absence of LA is a fallacy. It’s a false dichotomy.

I suppose that I’d like to see people take a stronger stance against these sorts of frauds – regardless of the “perceived” good that they’ve done. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
</div></div>

Although I agree with you for the most part I will point out this. Usually people "go with what you know" when it comes to awareness and donations. Take me for example, I ride the MS150 ride in two states every year because I have an aunt and a friend with MS. I support cancer foundations because I had a family member with cancer. There are others as well. I support these because they are close to me. We don't "need" LA to support cancer. If I'm a "healthy" star, what cause do I support? What cause do I make my "pet"? Media attention is a double-edged sword and sometimes we have to take the good with the bad. Very few in cycling have heard of Wim Vansevenant, a Belgian riding for Silence Lotto (ninth on the nine-man squad) who is the favorite to win his third Lanterne Rouge (French for Red Lantern meaning he finishes last in the TDF). Now winning his third LR may bring him some notoriety, but no one knows who he is or what cause he supports because he is a virtual "nobody". He can be incredibly passionate and hard working promoting his cause but you'll never hear about it.

LA's notoriety brings him media which allows him to promote the awareness. I don't think it erases his sins (perceived or real) or makes up for him being an asshole. But if one person sent money to the ACS because they're a LA fan, what harm is that?
 
Re: It's Not About the Lab Rats: The Livestrong Fraud

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We do not live in a vacuum, and to assume that someone else (someone drug free) wouldn't be there to raise awareness about cancer in the absence of LA is a fallacy. It&#146;s a false dichotomy.

I suppose that I&#146;d like to see people take a stronger stance against these sorts of frauds &#150; regardless of the &#147;perceived&#148; good that they&#146;ve done. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
</div></div>

Now winning his third LR may bring him some notoriety, but no one knows who he is or what cause he supports because he is a virtual "nobody". He can be incredibly passionate and hard working promoting his cause but you'll never hear about it.

</div></div>

Because I really don't want the tone or the direction of this back and forth banter to become hostile, please let me preface that I'm rather enjoying our dialog, and my entire point is to have a simple and civil exchange of thoughts. This particular subject is one that I've had on several occasions and it always peeks my interest.

That being said. I suppose me previous point is supported in what you just replied. Wim Vansevenant (I copied that!) is not well known because he is not a winner by your account. I don't know who he is, so I'll take your word for it. However, he is apparently getting some notoriety because he is starting to win. So, that goes to show that winning is important. As a result, if there were no cheaters, then the winners would be different and perhaps someone like Wim Vansevenant would become a household name.

LA the individual is not important to a cause. Rather causes are championed by champions, and those champions would be different if there were no cheats. Allow me to make an abstract comparison; In an alternate universe, Wim Vansevenant is the top cyclist, and has an organization that brings awareness to Diabetes. Would people in that universe be disappointed that there is not enough awareness about cancer? Would they care any less about Diabetes if Wim Vansevenant had proven himself to be drug free? I have to conclude that the answer is no, because the people in this alternate universe couldn't even imagine a scenario where LA is a winner.

My ultimate point and personal beliefs, is that I don't want to overlook anyone's cheating despite the good that may unfold from it. Because if that person didn't cheat, there would be someone else who would do great things without cheating. LA is not important, only LA the WINNER is important. Change the winner, and the cause remains.

I doubt that any of us would have positive feelings about someone who cheats at a shooting match (if that's possible). Regardless of the person's charity, we'd hate them to know end and call then a fraud. We'd be upset that our charities weren't getting any publicity even though we played by the rules.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful conversation Mike. I enjoy it very much!