I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

[seanhagerty]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: protoolsnerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

When i have time tonight i'm going to see if i can adjust my body die down to accommodate for the oversized once fired case. I was just surprised because 90% of the once fired cases don't require this . I had expected to have to FL resize my cases , but not only after once firing . </div></div>

There is a lot of info out there that talks about who FL resizes and when, and who only neck sizes. I have found that I get my reloads to chamber easiest when I FL resize "bumping" the shoulder back after every firing.

You mentioned that 90% of your once fired cases didnt require this. I would think this has to do with the case and how it expands and contracts at firing. Some will expand a bit larger than others. Some have not expanded enough to make them hard to chamber.

I am not recommending you do this but, I would bet if you only neck resized and shot these a second time, you would see a larger percentage that were hard to chamber. This would be as they were slightly larger than factory specs when you fired them the second time, they expanded from that point and got larger still.

Good luck with it.

 

[DubGunner]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

I didnt see it mentioned yet, but what rifle are you having these problems with? Is it a Savage?

I'm having a similar issue with a Savage fcpk. Factory Fed Gold Match168 chambers but its tight and leaves rifling marks on the bullets. OAL measures 2.793 and the factory ammo is 2.80. I've pulled the bullets and tried chambering just the case and it is pretty snug too, but i can get it closed.

When i run into issues is with once fired reloads. After a fl resize in my Lee dies some cases wont chamber at all, many more get stuck after firing. I get signs of high pressure even just duplicating the federal ammo (43gr IMR4064 and 168gr smks), although the factory loads dont show any signs. With the Lee dies you run the shell holder firm into the base of the die and thats it, theres no further adjustability for bumping shoulders that I'm aware of, but admittedly I'm a novice reloader myself.

Ive got some headspace gauges on the way, but my guess at this point is that the headspace is short by a few .001s. My. Next step will be to call Savage.

So is the OPs gun a savage too????

 

[19Scout77]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Edited to suggest you purchase safety glasses. Good luck.

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DubGunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didnt see it mentioned yet, but what rifle are you having these problems with? Is it a Savage?

I'm having a similar issue with a Savage fcpk. Factory Fed Gold Match168 chambers but its tight and leaves rifling marks on the bullets. OAL measures 2.793 and the factory ammo is 2.80. I've pulled the bullets and tried chambering just the case and it is pretty snug too, but i can get it closed.

When i run into issues is with once fired reloads. After a fl resize in my Lee dies some cases wont chamber at all, many more get stuck after firing. I get signs of high pressure even just duplicating the federal ammo (43gr IMR4064 and 168gr smks), although the factory loads dont show any signs. With the Lee dies you run the shell holder firm into the base of the die and thats it, theres no further adjustability for bumping shoulders that I'm aware of, but admittedly I'm a novice reloader myself.

Ive got some headspace gauges on the way, but my guess at this point is that the headspace is short by a few .001s. My. Next step will be to call Savage.

So is the OPs gun a savage too???? </div></div>

Not a savage , remington 700

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based upon the content of your other thread...I would guess the problem is not the rifle, the dies, the press, concentricity or anything else due to faulty equipment.

STEP ANY FROM THE PRESS and get some instruction on how to safely reload.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...088#Post3329088 </div></div>

As much as i appreciate your showing me that i'm not incredibly experienced ....but your comment does nothing for anyone here. I post to find out answers to questions from a community that has more experience and knowledge then I do. That is WHY i post questions . I never said that i was a guru or knew it all. If you feel like thread crapping , or giving criticism without anything positive , do it eslewhere. do it elsewhere . If you want this forum to be only for people who already know everything , have fun with that . Keep my posts and previous posts out of it .

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean Hagerty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: protoolsnerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

When i have time tonight i'm going to see if i can adjust my body die down to accommodate for the oversized once fired case. I was just surprised because 90% of the once fired cases don't require this . I had expected to have to FL resize my cases , but not only after once firing . </div></div>

There is a lot of info out there that talks about who FL resizes and when, and who only neck sizes. I have found that I get my reloads to chamber easiest when I FL resize "bumping" the shoulder back after every firing.

You mentioned that 90% of your once fired cases didnt require this. I would think this has to do with the case and how it expands and contracts at firing. Some will expand a bit larger than others. Some have not expanded enough to make them hard to chamber.

I am not recommending you do this but, I would bet if you only neck resized and shot these a second time, you would see a larger percentage that were hard to chamber. This would be as they were slightly larger than factory specs when you fired them the second time, they expanded from that point and got larger still.

Good luck with it. </div></div>


Thanks Sean, i appreciate the info .

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

When I started experiencing this sort of problem, I bought what's turned out to be my "new best friend". A Forster Neck Size/shoulder bump bushing die. Extremely versatile.

Neck size with the proper sized bushing and there will be no need for an expander ball or any other "expander die". This of course assumes that all case necks are the same thickness so its almost a requirement to neck turn or at the very least sort by thickness.

It can be used to partially neck size, leaving a centering "bulge" near the neck/shoulder junction.

It can also be used without the bushing to just "adjust" the shoulder itself to eliminate hard chambering on cases that have been fired several times.

Forster also sells an optional expander ball for this setup so it can be used like a conventional neck sizing die but with the benefit of not sizing the body of the case.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

I wrote a post not very different than the above by 19scout, yesterday; but deleted it, not wishing to offend. This is not like me, but like I wrote the other day, "I am beginning to get the drift". The "drift" is that this guy doesn't know a whole lot and it would be better if he just spit it out, admitted he doesn't and listened to good advice. BB

edit: Ah shit, now he went and deleted his post. I hate that!

 

[Tough Guy]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: protoolsnerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to get a concentricity gauge , it's one of the last items i need . <span style="color: #FF0000">I've never had a problem chambering any factory ammo at all</span> </div></div>

*ding ding ding*
That raised a flag for me. If you've never had this issue with factory fresh ammo, I'm thinking it's probably your chamber if you're using once-fired brass from your gun to reload.
The issue is probably either that your chamber isn't concentric or there is an inconsistency on one side that deforms your brass on one side and makes it hard to chamber on the other side.

I'd either take it to a gunsmith you trust and have him look at it, or really thoroughly inspect it yourself for any inconsistencies and research on issues other people might have similar to yours. </div></div>

ROFLMAO...you can only get concentricity issues if zombies are in control of your reloading process. He has made no mention of zombies.

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOUGHGUY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: protoolsnerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to get a concentricity gauge , it's one of the last items i need . <span style="color: #FF0000">I've never had a problem chambering any factory ammo at all</span> </div></div>

*ding ding ding*
That raised a flag for me. If you've never had this issue with factory fresh ammo, I'm thinking it's probably your chamber if you're using once-fired brass from your gun to reload.
The issue is probably either that your chamber isn't concentric or there is an inconsistency on one side that deforms your brass on one side and makes it hard to chamber on the other side.

I'd either take it to a gunsmith you trust and have him look at it, or really thoroughly inspect it yourself for any inconsistencies and research on issues other people might have similar to yours. </div></div>

ROFLMAO...you can only get concentricity issues if zombies are in control of your reloading process. He has made no mention of zombies.

</div></div>


HAHAHAHAHA.....braiiiiiiiins........cough....i mean HAHAHA

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

protool, you obviously did not get to see what 19scout posted yesterday morning, and that's unfortunate. It was brutally honest, and based on your most recent post, you needed to read it, and I'm betting 19scout might be having a few regrets for deleting it. However, now we have this:


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ROFLMAO...you can only get concentricity issues if zombies are in control of your reloading process. He has made no mention of zombies.</div></div>

and your response:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HAHAHAHAHA.....braiiiiiiiins........cough....i mean HAHAHA</div></div>

Concentricity is most likely the least of your worries, yet you appear totally clueless and laugh it off. Forget it, it's just a buzzword, not a solution, and it won't teach you how to properly resize your brass.

I don't like being the bad guy, but damn! I could go through all the responses if I was a moderator here and weed out all the bullshit, but why don't you try to figure out what is helpful and what is caca? BB

 

[dannydifalco]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

I had the same problem. I was not re sizing the necks fully. One i removed the bullet and resized the brass again it worked fine.

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">protool, you obviously did not get to see what 19scout posted yesterday morning, and that's unfortunate. It was brutally honest, and based on your most recent post, you needed to read it, and I'm betting 19scout might be having a few regrets for deleting it. However, now we have this:


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ROFLMAO...you can only get concentricity issues if zombies are in control of your reloading process. He has made no mention of zombies.</div></div>

and your response:

C'mon sir, why is a little levity a problem ? I already know what the issue was with those cases . I tried screwing down my fl die like suggested and it worked . I'm not super concerned about concentricity right now , nor do i own the correct gauge to measure it . I'm not sure what you're confused about or in doubt of . I think there is a ton of information on this thread . Some of which is helpful , some of which is not . I was just trying to give as much info as i had at the time .

The redding body die did the trick . I just had to screw it down a 1/4 turn and put a little more force into pressing it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HAHAHAHAHA.....braiiiiiiiins........cough....i mean HAHAHA</div></div>

Concentricity is most likely the least of your worries, yet you appear totally clueless and laugh it off. Forget it, it's just a buzzword, not a solution, and it won't teach you how to properly resize your brass.

I don't like being the bad guy, but damn! I could go through all the responses if I was a moderator here and weed out all the bullshit, but why don't you try to figure out what is helpful and what is caca? BB


</div></div>


C'mon sir, why is a little levity a problem ? I already know what the issue was with those cases . I tried screwing down my fl die like suggested and it worked . I'm not super concerned about concentricity right now , nor do i own the correct gauge to measure it . I'm not sure what you're confused about or in doubt of . I think there is a ton of information on this thread . Some of which is helpful , some of which is not . I was just trying to give as much info as i had at the time .

The redding body die did the trick . I just had to screw it down a 1/4 turn and put a little more force into pressing it.

I'm not sure why you think i'm as completely clueless as you've stated. I've had a whole lot of great responses from people willing to help without judging me or my level of knowledge . I've read up on a few things since then and i'm good i know what the issue is. So for newb's like me and many other people's sake , try taking the high road and being constructive

 

[spradley]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Protoolsnerd, do you have a bump gage for your brass?

I used to have this issue very early in my reloading years and never really understood why. I only neck sized not realizing the shoulders were pushing forward each time.

After measuring shoulder bump before and after firing along with purchasing chamber guages I can now visualize what happens when a case is fired and fully understand what needs to happen to get it back to where it will chamber properly.

If you do not have a bump gage I highly recommend them along with chamber gages for each caliber you shoot.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

It would be ever so helpful, (and courteous) if you had <span style="text-decoration: underline">let us know.</span> that the problem is solved so that we all may get a good night's sleep. If you are not clueless, I apologize for you sounding like it. BB

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GarySpradley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Protoolsnerd, do you have a bump gage for your brass?

I used to have this issue very early in my reloading years and never really understood why. I only neck sized not realizing the shoulders were pushing forward each time.

After measuring shoulder bump before and after firing along with purchasing chamber guages I can now visualize what happens when a case is fired and fully understand what needs to happen to get it back to where it will chamber properly.

If you do not have a bump gage I highly recommend them along with chamber gages for each caliber you shoot.

</div></div>

Thanks , i've not used a bump gauge before . I do have a headspace gauge for 308 , but it didn't have an issue with the cases that were hard to chamber . According to it , everything was peachy . But it's not exactly the same as my chamber being that it's the standard and not obviously tailored to my chamber in particular .

it just took me using the body die to bump the shoulder back a little , and the cases are chambering just fine .

 

[spradley]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Perfect.. a bump gage would have shown this immediately.
Sounds like your chamber gage is very different from your gun chamber. If you get a bump gage measure a factory unfired piece of brass.. then measure one fired from your gun. You'll see the difference.

Most say bump back .002 but you may need to experiment with that number. Bumping back to factory specs I'm told is "overworking" the brass.
----------------------------
Thanks , i've not used a bump gauge before . I do have a headspace gauge for 308 , but it didn't have an issue with the cases that were hard to chamber . According to it , everything was peachy . But it's not exactly the same as my chamber being that it's the standard and not obviously tailored to my chamber in particular .

it just took me using the body die to bump the shoulder back a little , and the cases are chambering just fine . [/quote]

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Thanks Gary .....it's now on the list of reloading gear ....slightly above the concentricity gauge !!

Much obliged sir

Any suggestions on a manufacturer ? Is the sinclair int. one decent ?

 

[YAOG]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: protoolsnerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Gary .....it's now on the list of reloading gear ....slightly above the concentricity gauge !!

Much obliged sir

Any suggestions on a manufacturer ? Is the sinclair int. one decent ? </div></div>


Sinclair makes some of the best measurement tools for reloading but they can be a bit more money than competing products. Often the extra expense of a Sinclair product pays you back with improved results better build and/or better function but in this case not so much.

Much easier to find in local reloading stores the former Stoney Point comparator/measurement tool which uses your existing calipers (you do have good stainless steel calipers right?) has been sold for some time by Hornady as their Lock n Load comparator offers better value and comparable quality of construction. Every loading bench needs this type of tool as a minimum to get reliable repeatable finished rounds. If you had a way to measure the measurement of the shoulder at the D line you would have found the problem in less than a minute.

You will need the holder and an insert to measure the D line of the case shoulder. I also highly recommend that you buy the insert that allows you to measure bullet ogive height from the bullet base and the matching anvil though it is not required it helps you get more consistent measurements. These tools combined with a printout of the case dimensions will help you build much better more consistent finished ammunition.

BTW, look on the SAAMI site <span style="color: #3333FF">SAMMI SPECS</span> for the PDF and go to page 178 of the specs for mechanical drawing you need. Don't rely on the prints in reloading manuals, I have seen mistakes and I expect there to be more. Use the SAAMI docs to be sure.

Hope this helps!

 

[VKC]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Full length resize and trim the case length.

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Thanks YAOG!!

Some really great information there . I will , without a doubt, be referring to your post numerous times in the near future .

I do have a decent set of a stainless steel calipers ( i went analog , i found the low to mid priced digital ones were less then reliable , and i can't quite afford one of the higher end ones )

Now , it's time to visit the SAMMI site

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Thanks vkc

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GarySpradley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sounds like your chamber gage is very different from your gun chamber. </div></div>

For anyone having a custom barrel chambered just have your gunsmith cut a piece of a scrapped barrel and chamber it with the same reamer he used on your barrel. You will now have a gauge that will work perfectly for your rifle. It will expose all issues with a cartridge, not just measure headspace and cartridge OAL.

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Great idea!!!! I'll let em know when i finally get it rebarreled

thanks!

 

[javy]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

have you tried a small base die??

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: javy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you tried a small base die?? </div></div>

I have not actually. Read a thing or 2 in passing but that's really all.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: javy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you tried a small base die?? </div></div>

Great...ANOTHER solution that will, in no way, fix the problem at issue. The problem is/was an improperly adjusted sizing die...nothing more.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

Good catch, 19! Remember on page one, where he carelessly mixed primers, that might have had something to do with it, as well? (joke)

I have been following this thread, even though it is driving me nuts. This guy is an attention junkie. Two pages of bullshit, he's thanking everybody (but me) for well intended but mostly useless advice.

(lol) You shouldn't have deleted that post, man! BB

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good catch, 19! Remember on page one, where he carelessly mixed primers, that might have had something to do with it, as well? (joke)

I have been following this thread, even though it is driving me nuts. This guy is an attention junkie. Two pages of bullshit, he's thanking everybody (but me) for well intended but mostly useless advice.

(lol) You shouldn't have deleted that post, man! BB


Do me a favor please , don't follow this thread . Don't follow me , don't post on threads that i'm posting on . Just kindly see yourself elsewhere .

thanks
</div></div>

 

[protoolsnerd]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: javy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you tried a small base die?? </div></div>

Great...ANOTHER solution that will, in no way, fix the problem at issue. The problem is/was an improperly adjusted sizing die...nothing more. </div></div>

Yes it was , and it has since been rectified . My rounds are now fine .

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: I've got a bit of a noodle scratcher here .... 308

I KNEW you couldn't resist responding, but I'm sorry. I can't grant you any special favor because you don't deserve it. I will make it a personal crusade to lurk on every post, every dumb word you write!
Why? Because, you are "special".
BB (just kidding)