Joe said “ Shoot them in the leg” / knee? What say you?

[TXAZ]

Biden has said multiple times suspects should be shot in the leg / knee.

So I’ll ask to those here that are very proficient in firearms AND have experience stopping bad guys with the same, under stress, just how much harder / more risky is it to shoot for the leg or knee than center of mass with a rifle or pistol?
Straight up question.

 

[308pirate]

Biden has said multiple times suspects should be shot in the leg / knee.

So I’ll ask to those here that are very proficient in firearms AND have experience stopping bad guys with the same, under stress, just how much harder / more risky is it to shoot for the leg or knee than center of mass with a rifle or pistol?
Straight up question.

I don't have to have shot people to know that trying to hit them in a skinny ass part of the body, that moves around two joints with every step, and that has very small areas that will stop a pissed off person when hit, to know that doing so is a ridiculously stupid suggestion.

I mean, we've established by now that Joe Biden is a complete fucking moron with the intellect of a vegetable. Why would you dignify his stupidity by asking is he's right?

 

[Expert684]

Guess that is why my dad kept a Winchester Defender next to the bed. You don’t have to aim to amputate body parts!

 

[DIBBS]

Hold center mass, eliminate the threat, phuck Mr Potato Head.

No offense meant, and I haven't had to shoot anyone<was close once and prepared to do so>, but this is a stupid question IMHO

 

[seanh]

Well in some States it's illegal to intentionally shoot to maim

 

[Darayavaus]

it sounds like a bad joke from a Lethal Weapon movie.

 

[Soulezoo]

Is the perp going to stay perfectly still and allow you to line up that shot?
Sorry, but that really is a stupid question whether the OP was sincere or not.
A shotgun is likely to sever a leg a closer range if hit. "But he sought to duck my shot your honor, I was aiming for his leg and it amputated his junk... really not my fault!"

 

[akmike47]

How many people are going to ask this same question forever?

Fuck the legs, but I hear if you insist on not shooting center mass the pelvic girdle is where it's at.

 

[vh20]

I think any such attempt would be used against you to prove that you really weren't in fear for your life, and therefore not justified to shoot at all.

 

[akmike47]

You don’t have to aim to amputate body parts!

That's one of the top fudd quotes you hear, right after "just the sound of racking it will scare them off".

Anyone who says you don't have to aim a shotgun is dumb.

 

[PusherX11]

They don’t make appendage targets for a reason.

 

[akmike47]

They don’t make appendage targets for a reason.

They make testicular targets however lol

 

[rtB]

Left ball. Aim small miss small.

 

[akmike47]

Left ball. Aim small miss small.

Unless they are cross ball dominate then you go right.

 

[Mister Ridge]

Could fail to neutralize the threat. Could maim for life. Could kill them just as dead as aiming center mass, but possibly slower and more painfully. What a great idea.

 

[TheGerman]

Face or dick.

Thats it.

 

[softcock]

under stress, just how much harder / more risky is it to shoot for the leg or knee than center of mass with a rifle or pistol?
Straight up question.

Can the bad guys be facing away, with their Backs turned toward me ?
.

 

[JuniperEyes]

Depends on weapon.... its kinda specialized like that

 

[Jaron3]

Not today, Satan.

 

[BAMAboy18]

Speaking of shooting with a shot gun. I had a friend catch another guy in bed with his wife, guy takes off running up the street, friend shot a bird-shot load his direction, at 100 yards away a single bb hit his heart and killed him. Friend did 20 years. Claimed he only wanted to scare him.
That said, I do have rubber slugs and buckshot for non lethal purposes, but if I'm in defense mode, center mass would be the only option in my head.
Most of the time I have an American Derringer DA38 in .357 in my pocket, even ported it shoots high, I prctice point shooting, I try to shoot at crotch level and hit center mass. Can't hit shit trying to aim it.

 

[BLEE]

3 shots center mass, or until the threat is neutralized.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Ask teal shirt guy

 

[EddieNFL]

Works in the movies...which is where liberals get their knowledge of, well, everything.

 

[Alphatreedog]

Face or dick.

Thats it.

 

[JoshPutman]

Pure Hollywood bullshit. Anyone who believes that shooting someone in the limbs is a viable option is ignorant at best. At worst they're a complete fucking moron.

I actually got into an argument with a young coworker about this several years ago. I'd already been carrying concealed for a few years, and trained a few times a week at the local range. I finally got it through his thick skull after a while, and to be quite honest I wasn't very nice about it, either.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

The only reason to fire at another person is if you have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury.

In such circumstances, you are justified to incapacitate that threat and the most effective way to incapacitate is to shoot for center mass.

Shooting in the leg or arm or non-vital place is not going to incapacitate the threat to your life and limb. In fact, it is merely sending a message or turning you into the aggressor.

You may NOT shoot to wound because it is not your intent to incapacitate to save yourself, but to send a message or to achieve some other lesser propose. If the “incapacitating shot(s)” happen to only wound, well at least you can enunciate that you were shooting for center mass as trained. If you shoot to wound, you clearly weren’t in fear of your life or serious bodily injury enough to need to incapacitate the threat.

And the point about enunciating (explaining clearly) your situation and intent are critical.

“This aggressive person threatened me and demanded money and brandished a weapon and I feared that I would be killed or grievously injured I did not defend myself,” is a clear enunciation of your need to defend yourself with lethal force.

“In shot him in the leg,” really means “I was sending a message that you don’t mess with me.” And that is not a justification for use of a deadly force weapon against a person. Period. Anywhere.

If forced into a self defense situation, shoot to incapacitate. The shots that incapacitate are lethal shots. Chest, pelvic girdle, head. All those incapacitate immediately. Most often they result in death. But your goal is not death, it is incapacitate the threat to your life and/or to prevent your receiving serious bodily injury that you believed would result if you did not act.

As usual, Brandon is an idiot and his advice will get you put in jail.

Sirhr

PS I wonder if the “Brandon defense” is now valid for shooting someone in a non-incapacitating way? “Sir, I intentionally wounded him because the president repeatedly said that was what to do and I believed that to be national policy and legal precedent.” I’ll let someone else be the test case…

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

The hit ratios for shootings is terrible at best. There's no aiming and firing like at the local range. Even for those that train regularly the hit ratios in stressful situation is poor. Muscle memory ever heard of it? It's called that because there's a disconnect of rational thoughts. I have to aim for an arm or a leg? I don't think your brains going to work that way.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

The other thing to add is that your use of force must be objectively reasonable. In other words would another reasonable person in that situation have acted that way.

Objectively reasonable: “It was dark, I was in a parking lot getting in my car and a large masked aggressive man who was jumpy and seemed under the influence blocked me. He was within Five feet of me and brandished a knife. He said he was going to cut me and that he wanted money and my car keys. He stated a second time ‘I’m going to cut you.”

Objectively questionable: “I am 6’4” and in
My 20’s and fit. A wino in his 60’s approximately 5’4 and 130 pounds came up to me and repeatedly in a drunken voice asked me for a dollar for juice. He would not get out of my way. He has been a pest in this neighborhood. He kept asking for a dollar.”

These are extreme examples, but both have happened. One is an objectively reasonable use of deadly force based on a clear perception that ones life was at stake or at least that person would have suffered grevious bodily injuries. Anyone faced with that situation could see that force was reasonable.

In the second situation, most reasonable people would say that an unarmed, much smaller drunk individual did not pose a threat of death or serious bodily harm as enunciated.

If the drunk pulled a knife or a gun… different story. But you have to clearly explain such that it is reasonable that you took the action you took.

Sirhr

 

[akmike47]

Speaking of shooting with a shot gun. I had a friend catch another guy in bed with his wife, guy takes off running up the street, friend shot a bird-shot load his direction, at 100 yards away a single bb hit his heart and killed him. Friend did 20 years. Claimed he only wanted to scare him.
That said, I do have rubber slugs and buckshot for non lethal purposes, but if I'm in defense mode, center mass would be the only option in my head.
Most of the time I have an American Derringer DA38 in .357 in my pocket, even ported it shoots high, I prctice point shooting, I try to shoot at crotch level and hit center mass. Can't hit shit trying to aim it.

I've been peppered at maybe 70 and it just bounced off me...moron shot straight at me at a range.

If this was the case there'd be lots of dead dove hunters lol. I'm guessing it didn't happen exactly like you were told. For example, pretty sure I read at 110yd 7.5 falls 5 feet if shot flat, and has lost over half its velocity.

My dad shot a guy in the face with dove shot from the end of his hallway to the front door and he ran away. Don't think he ever went to the ER either, the cops were looking.

Damn crack heads

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I think any such attempt would be used against you to prove that you really weren't in fear for your life, and therefore not justified to shoot at all.

And you just said in 30 words it took me 200 to say.

Well done. This topic comes up every year or so. It is settled case law. VH hit it right on the head.

Don’t listen to Brandon. He is an idiot.

Sirhr

 

[candyx]

Since I'm right handed its always behind the right ear when hired as a subcontractor.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Three points.
1. Hitting the main artery high the leg is as fatal a shot as a perfectly placed head shot, the hittee just takes a bit longer to die
2. Have you ever seen how accurately a well disciplined, but very pissed off fellow can shoot after being shot in the leg (most criminals aren’t but how would you know?)
3. I hate to say something like this about a sitting president, but joe biden is an idiot,

 

[akmike47]

Since I'm right handed its always behind the right ear when hired as a subcontractor.

Smart guy would go left to throw them off.

 

[akmike47]

Three points.
1. Hitting the main artery high the leg is as fatal a shot as a perfectly placed head shot, the hittee just takes a bit longer to die
2. Have you ever seen how accurately a well disciplined, but very pissed off fellow can shoot after being shot in the leg (most criminals aren’t but how would you know?)
3. I hate to say something like this about a sitting president, but joe biden is an idiot,

You don't even have to hit it to open it up, hit the bone and it may do it for you

 

[pmclaine]

Sig Sauer still trains on torso steel and paper......yet to see just a leg on either.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Well, there is the new skateboard target

 

[RichJ]

On a lighter note

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I am not taking any advice on Firearms nor Self Defense with a Firearm from a Fudd or someone who is not trained nor competent with a Firearm for SD. Even if he's the President - Hell, I have been annoyed and shaking my head at Joe Biden since the 80's. He's not anyone to take seriously in regards to Firearms handling or use.

VooDoo

 

[pmclaine]

I am not taking any advice on Firearms nor Self Defense with a Firearm from a Fudd or someone who is not trained nor competent with a Firearm for SD. Even if he's the President - Hell, I have been annoyed and shaking my head at Joe Biden since the 80's. He's not anyone to take seriously in regards to Firearms handling or use.

VooDoo

Everything after "seriously" is just wasted effort...........

 

[Steel head]

Joe Xiden is a legendary idiot and liar.

 

[Jscb1b]

Where would alec baldwin aim?

 

[1moaoff]

This is ridiculous to even ponder.

 

[TurboTrout]

Kyle Rittenhouse shot a attacking criminal with a single shot, right as the criminal pointed a gun at him, disarming the attacking criminal (in many ways), better shot placement and discipline than most PD, included the spectactical guys, only to get called a “white supremest” by The Big Guy

 

[missed]

Well look at the Florida shoot out video where the guy got out of the car with the AR pistol, cops shot him in the leg and he still hopped around trying like hell to kill the cops.

Where does the house plants security detail train to shoot?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

That's one of the top fudd quotes you hear, right after "just the sound of racking it will scare them off".

Anyone who says you don't have to aim a shotgun is dumb.

Its a fucking 12 bore rifle inside 15 yards.

 

[XP1K]

Speaking of shooting with a shot gun. I had a friend catch another guy in bed with his wife, guy takes off running up the street, friend shot a bird-shot load his direction, at 100 yards away a single bb hit his heart and killed him. Friend did 20 years. Claimed he only wanted to scare him.
That said, I do have rubber slugs and buckshot for non lethal purposes, but if I'm in defense mode, center mass would be the only option in my head.
Most of the time I have an American Derringer DA38 in .357 in my pocket, even ported it shoots high, I prctice point shooting, I try to shoot at crotch level and hit center mass. Can't hit shit trying to aim it.

Must have been some heavy bird shot. I know several people that have been shot on dove hunts. Some intentionally. One guy got blasted in the face with a load of 7½ by his best friend. Had it not been for the safety glasses he was wearing at the time it likely would have blinded him. He's still carrying a few bb's around with him, one stopped too close to operate on against the main artery in his neck.

You really gotta watch the dumbasses on those group hunts.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

This entire discussion is pointless. As soon as they can create a true majority, the far left is going to eliminate all statues regarding criminal offenses. hence, no laws to break, no criminals. Problem solved.

Self defense? No need because there will be no criminals or crimes where one has to defend him/herself.

Never discount the power of rigged elections / corrupt election officials.

 

[vh20]

PS I wonder if the “Brandon defense” is now valid for shooting someone in a non-incapacitating way? “Sir, I intentionally wounded him because the president repeatedly said that was what to do and I believed that to be national policy and legal precedent.” I’ll let someone else be the test case…

This is something I've wondered as well. I believe it will show up in a case someday, Like you, I wouldn't want to be the one using it.

And you just said in 30 words it took me 200 to say.

Well done. This topic comes up every year or so. It is settled case law. VH hit it right on the head.

Don’t listen to Brandon. He is an idiot.

Sirhr

Thanks, but mine was just the "what", yours explains "why".

 

[roostercogburn98]

Soooooooo intentionally maim someone. Wonder who’s tax dollars will pay that shitheads bills for the rest of his life??

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Speaking of shooting with a shot gun. I had a friend catch another guy in bed with his wife, guy takes off running up the street, friend shot a bird-shot load his direction, at 100 yards away a single bb hit his heart and killed him. Friend did 20 years. Claimed he only wanted to scare him.
That said, I do have rubber slugs and buckshot for non lethal purposes, but if I'm in defense mode, center mass would be the only option in my head.
Most of the time I have an American Derringer DA38 in .357 in my pocket, even ported it shoots high, I prctice point shooting, I try to shoot at crotch level and hit center mass. Can't hit shit trying to aim it.

Oh say it isn't so. Sad. You should change your handle.
A 7.5 shot pellet can't penetrate to ones heart at 100yds.
Goodbye....