JP 6.5 Grendel Bolt
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The ONLY 6.5G bolts that I have seen in JP rifles/uppers were 100% Alexander Arms units. To my knowledge, unless it is something new, JP has NEVER made their "Enhanced Bolts" available in 6.5G.
I also heard there the ony manufacturer of a Grendel Bolt. I hope that's not true.
check out maxim firearms, precision firearms, and underground tactical. Les Baer also makes them for their "264 LBC" but say they are not suppressor rated.
Alexander Arms are big on patents and law suits. Bill Alexander likes to design things and expects others to make them on their dime and pay him for the idea. He had a big fallout with Starline(about Beowulf brass) and Saturn about Bolts and Barrels .He and LW were partners at one time and that fell apart. The bolt is a 7.62 x 39 bolt face AR bolt Rock River chambers a AR in this Caliber check with them.
Thats pretty sad when people do things like that..but it only helps me and Im sure others that will go elsewhere.
Thanks FNARSHOOTER
According to an email I received from JP they were supposed to start making their own Enhanced 6.5 Grendel bolt.... I had asked them about a month ago and they led me to believe that within the next month or two they would have their own bolt available. I would ask them directly because their new Grendel bolt may be available now or in very short order.
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Thanks Regalkismet...That would be awesome since they make awesome rifles and components.
I recently was going through some upper receivers from various sources, squaring the faces of them before doing some accuracy builds with high-end barrels.
The Alex-A M4 upper was the only one that had a true receiver face, and also had a tight tunnel for the barrel extension.
I have also worked on several complete AA rifles for cerakoting, and they are some of the best-built AR15's I have ever dealt with. I've been avidly shooting, working on, deploying with, and living with AR15's/M16's/M4's since 1988.
No, Bill Alexander didn't want customers getting left out to dry with chamber variations, so he had anyone who wanted to make Grendel's sign and agree to a licensing contract that held them to the chamber standard before the cartridge received SAAMI approval. Once SAAMI approval happened after Hornady submitted it, all licensing and trademarks to the cartridge were released, since the manufacturers can look at the SAAMI drawings on their own now.
I've spoken with many parties personally that you have mentioned and more, face to face at SHOT over the years, and I can see what has gone on. It comes down to people not being able to swallow their pride and accept their mistakes. Some of the companies you mentioned are still making the same ones, and turning out crap product for customers to deal with.
One you didn't mention that is a good example is the old CProducts. Bill A. specifically asked for a curved magazine for the Grendel that was the same size as the 5.56 civilian 20rd mag. What did they do? Send him a pallet of straight 17rd mags, which you can still find on the market, that didn't function if you loaded more than 5-7 rounds in them. Bill rejected the entire pallet of them, and CProducts took them back. AA never carried that mag, and they ended up being sold to distributors all over, rather than being destroyed.
Worse has happened with barrels and bolts.
In any manufacturing market that involves multiple sub assemblies, it is standard for companies to rely on machine shops and specialty suppliers to provide parts and services that are in line with their core competencies. Nobody makes their own springs, detents, triggers, extensions, barrels, forgings, gas tubes, etc. under the same roof.
Not sure what your vendetta is with AA, but you didn't do much to hide it. Back story?
Well that's certainly something to make an already fantastic rifle/upper from them just that much better!! Good to know...thanks for the heads-up, R.
As to FNAR...well...its clear that you've got a bee in your bonnet for AA so I'll try not to judge your comments too harshly, but rather just keep them in context with your obvious agenda!
That said, my experiences with all things AA over many years now has been on par with what LRRPF52 has stated in his post above. Their products in my experience are all extremely well-made, well thought out and they stand behind what they sell (regardless of whom they may or may not have contracted with to provide them with the parts they have ordered to their specs). I have spent a lot of time in the Blacksburg/Radford area over the years and Bill and his crew have always been MORE than gracious when it comes to addressing questions/concerns/etc. in a timely manner for me. I have no qualms whatsoever about doing business with AA directly or in dealing with their parts/accessories in the aftermarket.
"Once SAAMI approval happened after Hornady submitted it," and paid for it because A,A. would not. Bill A. left the Beowulf guys hanging because the case is flawed yet he still sold sub standard weapons and crap ammo. Many people ordered weapons and waited month only to receive weapons that did not function and were not even test fired before being shipped. Even repaired weapons were not tested. Don't take my word for it . 50 Beowulf.com check the posts. The Beowulf is still not SAAMI approved because Bill A. knows of it's flaws. The Grendel only moved forward because other put money and effort in it .If you get a good weapon from A.A. (and I have seen a few) count yourself lucky. If you are in a place where you know the " Inside Story" ask Bill A. why he had everybody helping him find someone to make Brass for his weapons when Starline would make "all he was willing to pay for" (as per Starline) While you are at it ask how many Mags he sold for 2x the price that were "Grendel " or "Beowulf" that would not function and A.A. instructed the end user to "TWEAK" the feed lips to make them run. How about the fiction about D.O.D contracts that were being filled as a excuse for 12 mo. wait time for weapons that had to be sent back.
Are you familiar with the SAAMI approval process? Small companies are not going to get their pet caliber of the month submitted and approved by SAAMI, otherwise SAAMI would be back-logged and burdened even more than they are. It takes a large ammunition manufacturer to submit to SAAMI and get approval, hence Hornady's submission. Hornady wouldn't have submitted the Grendel to SAAMI if there wasn't such a high demand for the ammunition from the market.
I'm not into the Beowulf, so I don't really know much about it. I will refrain from making comments on it as such. I've watched its development from inception to the current, but really never had much interest in it.
Grendel mags at 2x the price huh? I have followed the magazine pricing dating back for many years now, at least from 2009 forward, and I have never seen AA Grendel mags sold for more than 2x the price. Grendel mags have always been within $5 of most other distributors, and AA actually runs their magazines through a testing apparatus before they will put an AA floor plate on it to ensure reliability, which accounts for the marginal cost difference. As far as I can remember, most Grendel mags have been under $20 per all along. I know I've never paid more than that dating back to 2009. They are all currently $17.59 on AA's site.
This is the first I have heard about AA using DOD contracts as a reason for not shipping in time for civilian customers. I have had guys that I know personally that did contract work for BW say that they had .50 Beowulf's, but I've never confirmed it or asked about it with Bill A. Not really concerned with anything Beowulf.
It is interesting that you claim that AA doesn't test their products. AA is pretty OCD when it comes to testing, and their standards are very high because of it. They are one of the few companies that uses the TDP for the M4 when sourcing materials and specifying their parts for manufacturing.
AA Grendel bolts are extremely well-made in my experience, and AA does some pretty extensive QC on them before putting them in guns. Mine has held up over 5 years of pressure ladder testing with various powder and projectile combinations, where I usually find the maximum in small charge weight increments, pushing over the SAAMI MAP to find my safety window. I don't mass produce any loads that are even within 100fps of any pressure signs, but I do my ladder testing until I see a departure from the pressure trend on my chronograph, at which point I stop.
Maybe you have had some bad experiences with the Beowulf, and read streams of unverified claims about it on some other forum, but I don't see what it has to do with this thread.
GI mags are $10.00 vs AA at $17.95 sorry not quite 2 x .Pictures of the Mag tester would be great. I 'm sure you are one of Bill Alexanders fanboys that gets his stuff for free and never had to wait in line . So anything I say will be wrong. Like I said anybody that checked back post of 50 Beowulf.Com (which predates 6.5 Grendel.com)Can see the crap A.A. pulled on everybody not just me. I will take my money elsewhere.
Maybe you have had a warm and fuzzy time with your factory groomed Grendel and feel that others are making unverified claims that is sad I suggest if someone want to make a call on A.A. they research and decide for themselves.
Maybe you have had a warm and fuzzy time with your factory groomed Grendel and feel that others are making unverified claims that is sad I suggest if someone want to make a call on A.A. they research and decide for themselves.
I just got a JP 6.5 grendel upper, when I ordered it I was able to order the low mass enhanced JP bolt, which may just be their low mass carrier with someone elses bolt today, but I don't care, it flat out shoots, and is a kick in the pants to have a carbine that crushes steel at 700 yards.
Congrats on the upper... I intend to purchase one when my other parts get ordered.
Can you post a pic of your enhanced bolt?
Thanks
I actually started out believing all the same claims you make because I had seen several people make them (who turned out to be butthurt over claims that the Grendel out-performed their pet caliber I later learned).
Get my stuff for free? I ordered my 16" Grendel barrel bolt combo from Midway USA in 2009 for $269, ordered my mags from .44mag.com, and built my own carbine the way I wanted it. Started out hand-loading with Lapua brass I had gotten in Finland, paid for all my own reloading supplies, ordered dies from Midway, bought powder and primers locally. I recently ordered 2 more barrels from Lilja, so your statements about me probably being free-loader who gets compensated for being a "fanboy" are baseless.
Most of the factory ammo I have shot has been Precision Firearms 123gr Lapua Scenar, and 123gr Hornady box ammo purchased locally or ordered online.
I could respond with, "You're probably one of those guys who believes everything he reads online.", but I don't know you. I did read through enough of your posts here on the hide to try to gain a better understanding of where you're coming from, and I saw that you owned a Beowulf. I'm not sure how your comments have any relevance to the thread though, since you don't own a Grendel.
What is your motive to trash another company again?
You just listed how you bought everything for other venders not A.A and built everything yourself. A few post back you implied you hung out with Bill A. at the plant and had a inside scoop about everything. Is that the reason you did it all yourself? I still have the Beowulf it runs great as I too build it from parts. That said their factory weapons are hit and miss, over priced and their Q.C. just plain sucks. Don't own a Grendel you are right , shot plenty that's why I don't own one .I own other weapons for that app. Never saw the need for one . If the 6.5 Grendel trips your trigger God Bless . I have first hand had nothing but problems with A.A. as have others. If you are not one Cool.
If real world feedback is trashing a company I guess my motive is truth.
If real world feedback is trashing a company I guess my motive is truth.
I think you're confusing me with ORD who has spent time at the Radford facility. I have met with Bill A. at SHOT several times.
The reason I do my own work is because I have been dealing with AR15's since 1988, and I know what I want, and how to make it the way I want the first time. That said, there I things I am still learning all the time, and I would have been better off if I had purchased a complete AA rifle or upper originally, but they were only available for a few moments on Midway's site when I was intent on getting one, so I just got the AA barrel/bolt combo.
One reason I like doing my own projects from components is that I Cerakote my parts with bake-on NIC Industries H-series, and I have certain triggers and handguards I like to use:
If I could have used AA receivers, I would have, as their uppers are one of the best forged uppers on the market made to their specs with a square face and tight extension tunnel, then anodized Type III. I just thought they were standard uppers back in 2009, but have learned otherwise when checking them on a receiver lapping tool-no need to lap, ready to go for an accurate rifle. I would value the AA forged uppers in the $150-$185 range easily based on that alone.
Every AA Grendel I have shot or Cerakoted is one of the few top-notch AR's on the market that I would consider buying if I were to buy a factory rifle. There aren't many companies I would say that about after 27 years of regular experience with the design.
For the record, my little 16" barrel carbine has shot ~1 MOA consistently with a wide range of projectile types. Best groups have been .75" at 100yds, and 1.7" at 200yds, with others at 1.1" at 100yds in 20-25mph full value gusts, and 2.18" at 200yds. It's very easy to hit 12" steel poppers with at 400yds, and is more fun to shoot at farther distances, especially for new shooters who haven't shot at distance before.
Bill A. has even taken in other manufacturer's defects and fixed them just to help maintain the reputation of the Grendel. If there are issues with their products, I know AA is very responsive about correcting them.
The reason I do my own work is because I have been dealing with AR15's since 1988, and I know what I want, and how to make it the way I want the first time. That said, there I things I am still learning all the time, and I would have been better off if I had purchased a complete AA rifle or upper originally, but they were only available for a few moments on Midway's site when I was intent on getting one, so I just got the AA barrel/bolt combo.
One reason I like doing my own projects from components is that I Cerakote my parts with bake-on NIC Industries H-series, and I have certain triggers and handguards I like to use:
If I could have used AA receivers, I would have, as their uppers are one of the best forged uppers on the market made to their specs with a square face and tight extension tunnel, then anodized Type III. I just thought they were standard uppers back in 2009, but have learned otherwise when checking them on a receiver lapping tool-no need to lap, ready to go for an accurate rifle. I would value the AA forged uppers in the $150-$185 range easily based on that alone.
Every AA Grendel I have shot or Cerakoted is one of the few top-notch AR's on the market that I would consider buying if I were to buy a factory rifle. There aren't many companies I would say that about after 27 years of regular experience with the design.
For the record, my little 16" barrel carbine has shot ~1 MOA consistently with a wide range of projectile types. Best groups have been .75" at 100yds, and 1.7" at 200yds, with others at 1.1" at 100yds in 20-25mph full value gusts, and 2.18" at 200yds. It's very easy to hit 12" steel poppers with at 400yds, and is more fun to shoot at farther distances, especially for new shooters who haven't shot at distance before.
Bill A. has even taken in other manufacturer's defects and fixed them just to help maintain the reputation of the Grendel. If there are issues with their products, I know AA is very responsive about correcting them.
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I'm So glad you are happy . Try checking out a Seekins matched set upper /lower .Please wear a helmet as if A.A. is good enough Seekins will blow your mind. Also might want to try a different load as most of the Grendel builds I have shot preformed better than what you posted. The 6.5 is a stroke of genius in marketing and many love it as you do. At 400 plus I prefer a little more push 260,6.5 CM or 6.5 SAUM if you want a 6.5. Under 400 the wimpy 5.56 /77 gr has never let me down. I have enough brass to last 2 lifetimes and might cut some down for a 300 blackout SBR just because.
Well this thread completely ran off the tracks. I own a JP SCR -11 chambered in 6.5 Grendel and it flat out shoots.
I never thought you could get so much out of the smaller ar platform. I prefer the 107 smk/108 scenar as I agree with Jon Paul
at JP that velocity trumps BC in this cartridge. The BC group is JP and the bolt itself is AA.
I never thought you could get so much out of the smaller ar platform. I prefer the 107 smk/108 scenar as I agree with Jon Paul
at JP that velocity trumps BC in this cartridge. The BC group is JP and the bolt itself is AA.
I believe what he said is velocity trumps BC under 400yds which is why I shoot another caliber that shall not be named as I'm not interested in a ridiculous caliber war.... And I agree too... If I'm gonna shoot over 400 yds I'm using a stick that is truly made for the job....
* Have the Seekins...check, they're an outstanding company. Price of tea in China....?
* Helmet?
* Have all kinds of Grendel loads. That's a factory Hornady 123gr A-MAX load at 200yds from a $269 button-rifled barrel w/bolt that I dropped in an upper and took to the range, didn't even square the receiver face or bed the extension.
* Grendel sells itself for me, after a lifetime of watching bullets go down range and carrying heavy rifles that do well from prone or solid external support, but not positions. No marketing needed.
* Have had two .260 Remingtons, and still have my GAP AR10 in .260 Rem...check. My 16" Grendel with bipod, 2.5-10x44 scope and mag weigh less than the upper receiver group alone from the .260 Rem AR10. That's a big consideration for me when humping the hills and mountains out here, as well as shooting positions.
* I watch a lot of Mk.262 77gr go down range throughout the year in my DM Courses. Grendel is a different world when it comes to impacting steel next to a .223 Wylde, from a carbine that weighs the same or less, with only a little more recoil, and much less wind deflection. That .510 BC versus .340-.370 for the 77gr .224 pills is very real on the range, not just a number thrown out there.
Anything else? I'm still trying to figure out why we're talking about the above when the OP asked about a bolt. Maybe I need to take up substance abuse and it will all make sense, especially the helmet part. I have plenty of helmets, but don't really see what they could possibly have to do with me owning Seekins receiver sets.
In the past I've been the first to call out AA, when it was warranted. (You can check my history at the 65grendel forum)
I'll also give credit where credits due. Thank God Bill A kept a tight hold on the Grendel trademark and the chamber. Otherwise we'd seen more instances like the following link, where flawed barrels were being marked with the Grendel name.
how much will a gun bring in scrap?
Here a guy picked up a crap barrel that was marked Grendel. Bill A took a barrel. he had no responsibility, and replaced it with one of his at shop cost.
I have a hard time believing if you got one of his weapons that wouldn't work as advertised he wouldn't take it back and fix or replace it.
I'll also give credit where credits due. Thank God Bill A kept a tight hold on the Grendel trademark and the chamber. Otherwise we'd seen more instances like the following link, where flawed barrels were being marked with the Grendel name.
how much will a gun bring in scrap?
Here a guy picked up a crap barrel that was marked Grendel. Bill A took a barrel. he had no responsibility, and replaced it with one of his at shop cost.
I have a hard time believing if you got one of his weapons that wouldn't work as advertised he wouldn't take it back and fix or replace it.
LRRPF52
You are right the Grendel is the end all best caliber ever made and Bill A. hung the moon. I would get rid of that boat anchor AR10 in that useless 260 caliber. I simply stated my dismay with a Company I had dealt with . You posted targets ect. I would not buy anymore AA product . I made that point . You derailed and I followed .My mistake. Drink all the Koolaid you want no need for any other "Substance Abuse" The helmet reference was to contain a blown mind it is metaphor . (look it up if need be) Live long and prosper
You are right the Grendel is the end all best caliber ever made and Bill A. hung the moon. I would get rid of that boat anchor AR10 in that useless 260 caliber. I simply stated my dismay with a Company I had dealt with . You posted targets ect. I would not buy anymore AA product . I made that point . You derailed and I followed .My mistake. Drink all the Koolaid you want no need for any other "Substance Abuse" The helmet reference was to contain a blown mind it is metaphor . (look it up if need be) Live long and prosper
Yes, my 8.6lb 16" Scoped Carbine only loses 200yds of performance compared to my 14lb 22" .260 Remington, shooting the 123gr A-MAX, 123gr SMK, or 123gr NCC, with significantly less pressure and recoil.
.260 Rem 22" barrel 123gr 2915fps
6.5 Grendel 16" barrel 123gr 2550fps
I then have to look at my resources and ask if the extra 200yds in performance is worth the extra 10 grains of powder per case, exacerbated wear on brass (60,000psi on my Lapua .260 Rem brass), extra weight of the gun for what I'm doing, and extra recoil penalty. Sometimes it is, and most of the time it isn't.
Now you have resorted to using logical fallacies in your argument, interjecting claims on my behalf that simply don't exist:
Combined with the inappropriate nature of your first post of derailment, I'm guessing that remedial training is in order for you. You might consider a formal critical thinking course that breaks down logical fallacies, seriously. I mean this with the utmost respect. You're all over the place in this thread.
.260 Rem 22" barrel 123gr 2915fps
6.5 Grendel 16" barrel 123gr 2550fps
I then have to look at my resources and ask if the extra 200yds in performance is worth the extra 10 grains of powder per case, exacerbated wear on brass (60,000psi on my Lapua .260 Rem brass), extra weight of the gun for what I'm doing, and extra recoil penalty. Sometimes it is, and most of the time it isn't.
Now you have resorted to using logical fallacies in your argument, interjecting claims on my behalf that simply don't exist:
Combined with the inappropriate nature of your first post of derailment, I'm guessing that remedial training is in order for you. You might consider a formal critical thinking course that breaks down logical fallacies, seriously. I mean this with the utmost respect. You're all over the place in this thread.
Sorry I will fix my mistake and try to conform :
"YOUR Grendel is the end all best weapon ever and YOU hung the moon with BILL A." Better?
Get over yourself. Opinions are like assholes everybody is allowed to have one and they all stink sometimes. I will PM my address so you can send that turd of a AR10 to me I don't mind the extra weight and exacerbated wear on brass(love when you use big words makes you sound smart) Remedial ,Utmost,Fallacies damn dude you are one hooked on phonics M.F. I quit you win!!
"YOUR Grendel is the end all best weapon ever and YOU hung the moon with BILL A." Better?
Get over yourself. Opinions are like assholes everybody is allowed to have one and they all stink sometimes. I will PM my address so you can send that turd of a AR10 to me I don't mind the extra weight and exacerbated wear on brass(love when you use big words makes you sound smart) Remedial ,Utmost,Fallacies damn dude you are one hooked on phonics M.F. I quit you win!!
My .260 Rem does exactly what I intended it to do, and has served me well. For a prone/bipod, or external hard support position, it's a great rifle.
For the majority of distances I shoot, the Grendel covers down fine. For a lightweight hunting AR15, it's the caliber to beat.
I wish I could say I'm surprised that use of the English language is seen as a negative in your view. How does that work out for you when reloading?
For the majority of distances I shoot, the Grendel covers down fine. For a lightweight hunting AR15, it's the caliber to beat.
I wish I could say I'm surprised that use of the English language is seen as a negative in your view. How does that work out for you when reloading?
I have built 4 Grendels using AA upper receivers. Three have AA barrels and one Lilja. I have built many 5.56 rifles using AA upper receivers because of their superior barrel fit and machining . I have never had a AA Grendel bolt failure or issue with any of my many AA Grendel mags. I don't endorse any product or company unless they have been proven by my own experience. My history with AA products has been exactly the same as LRRPF52 has stated. I'm sure every company has had bad products escape the QC process but I have never had any issue with AA products so far.
WOw!! this has taken off on a whole different subject from my post. it was never meant to go off topic. Mel from JP has spoken to me and said they will be selling there own Enhanced 6.5 Grendel bolts in about a month...just waiting on extractors. I will be on that list no doubt about it.
Thanks for the help and very interesting information.
Thanks for the help and very interesting information.
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