JP LRP-07 Accuracy Issue

[FlyingFinn]

Thanks guys for all useful tips.
Saturday's testing produced new results, quite decent groups systematically under moa, sometimes a flier growing the group to moa or 1.2 moa – exactly kind of groups I would expect to get with a new rifle.

So it could be me. However, I also shot friend's HK 308, and as before, I was able to produce three groups under moa with relative ease despite the trigger. This would suggest the problem wasn't me. In addition, we all agreed JP is much easier and smoother to shoot than the piston-driven HK. So, go figure...

Only other thing, I cleaned the barrel pretty well, but I've done that earlier too.

Interestingly, it started to like most of the decent quality ammo I put through it, could not make much difference with the groups. Barrel finally broken in and producing (significantly) tighter groups?

 

[Centuriator]

"So it could be is definitely me."



Fixed it for you.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Thanks guys for all useful tips.
Saturday's testing produced new results, quite decent groups systematically under moa, sometimes a flier growing the group to moa or 1.2 moa – exactly kind of groups I would expect to get with a new rifle.

So it could be me. However, I also shot friend's HK 308, and as before, I was able to produce three groups under moa with relative ease despite the trigger. This would suggest the problem wasn't me. In addition, we all agreed JP is much easier and smoother to shoot than the piston-driven HK. So, go figure...

Only other thing, I cleaned the barrel pretty well, but I've done that earlier too.

Interestingly, it started to like most of the decent quality ammo I put through it, could not make much difference with the groups. Barrel finally broken in and producing (significantly) tighter groups?

I'd bet good money that you just had a nasty burr in the barrel that had to work it's way out. It's not uncommon at all even in high end barrels to have a burr at the gas port and they don't shoot anywhere near like the should while it's being fire lapped out.

 

[FlyingFinn]

I'd bet good money that you just had a nasty burr in the barrel that had to work it's way out. It's not uncommon at all even in high end barrels to have a burr at the gas port and they don't shoot anywhere near like the should while it's being fire lapped out.

This fits the symptoms. Thanks.

 

[FlyingFinn]

"So it could be is definitely me."

Fixed it for you.

Me not lapping the barrel? ?

 

[FlyingFinn]

"I’m pretty sure these large frame ARs are pretty hard to shoot accurately."

I guess it depends on your definition of "accurately."

And definition of "hard" and "easy". JP is far easier than piston HK.

 

[FlyingFinn]

EPILOGUE

Rifle and shooter are both fine. redneckbmxer24 point about burr would fit the symptoms, thanks. Rifle now shoots consistently between 0.5-1 Moa with reasonable ammo, bad groups are between 1 and 1.5 moa – both well in line with my skills.

I bought more GGG's 175 smk, which seem to be pretty consistent, reasonable value. Enclosed today's four consecutive groups (100m, temp at freezing point, no wind), measuring 21, 20, 20 and 13 mm (c. 0.7 and 0.4 moa), very typical.

And no, even relatively light .308 semi-auto is not at all difficult to shoot (at this level). Maybe needs a little more attention and firmness but nothing beyond fairly basic rifle skills.

Lesson: do not give up easy. Test shooter, ammo, scope + mount, clean the barrel, and repeat. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[The DFC]

Nice.

 

[Stavey]

JP has great customer service

 

[hitman]

It could have needed to be broken in. I have a stainless Criterion that was pretty bad then it was like a light switch was flipped and it began to shoot great groups. My JP SCR is the most accurate gun I have by far and the JP LRI is on my list this year. Glad to see it shooting well.

 

[FlyingFinn]

It could have needed to be broken in. I have a stainless Criterion that was pretty bad then it was like a light switch was flipped and it began to shoot great groups. My JP SCR is the most accurate gun I have by far and the JP LRI is on my list this year. Glad to see it shooting well.

This "light switch flipped" sounds a lot like burr too, just maybe.
Anyway, I am very happy with the LPR, its light, easy and pleasant to shoot, feels "refined" compared to e.g. my HKs (German tools), and now also reasonably accurate. Wish I would have extra time to go into hand-loading to see how far it could be pushed. Lack of long ranges is another bummer, I'd like to push it a bit.

 

[captain_toad]

SO glad to find this thread.

I shot my 16" .308 LRI-20 for its fourth session today. 200m from a bench with bags, Trijicon 1-8x mounted this time (ZCO was on it).

Like the OP, every ammunition I've tried shoots about 2–3 MOA—even 175gr FGMM. Unlike the OP, .308 is all I shoot, and I have an extensive collection of semiautomatic .308s and a large quantity of ammunition. Admittedly, the majority of my rounds downrange have gone through M1s and M14s, but I've put a few thousand through my AR-10s.

In this case, when I shoot the JP+FGMM side-by-side with an LMT MWS (with a lightweight 16" chrome lined barrel and 3.5x ACOG), I get almost half the group size with the LMT—at half the magnification—with surplus MEN ball ammo.

Unlike the OP, I think there's a reasonable chance it's me despite my experience. I do not particularly like this rifle's recoil impulse or its trigger, and have consequently found shot follow-through more difficult than with other AR-10s or with other systems. Also unlike the OP, I live about 4 miles from JP.

I'll update this thread with any useful information as I slowly pursue this issue.

 

[captain_toad]

SO glad to find this thread.

I shot my 16" .308 LRI-20 for its fourth session today. 200m from a bench with bags, Trijicon 1-8x mounted this time (ZCO was on it).

Like the OP, every ammunition I've tried shoots about 2–3 MOA—even 175gr FGMM. Unlike the OP, .308 is all I shoot, and I have an extensive collection of semiautomatic .308s and a large quantity of ammunition. Admittedly, the majority of my rounds downrange have gone through M1s and M14s, but I've put a few thousand through my AR-10s.

In this case, when I shoot the JP+FGMM side-by-side with an LMT MWS (with a lightweight 16" chrome lined barrel and 3.5x ACOG), I get almost half the group size with the LMT—at half the magnification—with surplus MEN ball ammo.

Unlike the OP, I think there's a reasonable chance it's me despite my experience. I do not particularly like this rifle's recoil impulse or its trigger, and have consequently found shot follow-through more difficult than with other AR-10s or with other systems. Also unlike the OP, I live about 4 miles from JP.

I'll update this thread with any useful information as I slowly pursue this issue.

SO glad to find this thread.

I shot my 16" .308 LRI-20 for its fourth session today. 200m from a bench with bags, Trijicon 1-8x mounted this time (ZCO was on it).

Like the OP, every ammunition I've tried shoots about 2–3 MOA—even 175gr FGMM. Unlike the OP, .308 is all I shoot, and I have an extensive collection of semiautomatic .308s and a large quantity of ammunition. Admittedly, the majority of my rounds downrange have gone through M1s and M14s, but I've put a few thousand through my AR-10s.

In this case, when I shoot the JP+FGMM side-by-side with an LMT MWS (with a lightweight 16" chrome lined barrel and 3.5x ACOG), I get almost half the group size with the LMT—at half the magnification—with surplus MEN ball ammo.

Unlike the OP, I think there's a reasonable chance it's me despite my experience. I do not particularly like this rifle's recoil impulse or its trigger, and have consequently found shot follow-through more difficult than with other AR-10s or with other systems. Also unlike the OP, I live about 4 miles from JP.

I'll update this thread with any useful information as I slowly pursue this issue.

Update: accuracy issues resolved.

168gr FGMM is the factory specified load for JP AR 308s. 175gr FGMM is known to them to deliver mediocre performance.

With the 168gr, my groups went from 2–3 MOA to <1MOA consistently, with 4/5 holes touching in 3 of 5 200m test groups. Readjusting the gas system for this specific load helped as well. Pretty significant transformation.

 

[75thFTW]

168gr FGMM, JP LRP-07 .308, no excuses, train your fundamentals. Shooter input into the rifle and marksmanship fundamentals are the biggest variable with precision shooting in my experience training. excellent fundamentals paired with a excellent rifle, optic and ammo WILL result in sub half MOA groups. I typically shoot between .2 and .35 MOA all day with FGMM 168.

 

[Black max]

168gr FGMM, JP LRP-07 .308, no excuses, train your fundamentals. Shooter input into the rifle and marksmanship fundamentals are the biggest variable with precision shooting in my experience training. excellent fundamentals paired with an excellent rifle, optic and ammo WILL result in sub half MOA groups. I typically shoot between .2 and .35 MOA all day with FGMM 168.

Hey cowboy, you got any five shot groups you could post?

 

[75thFTW]

Hey cowboy, you got any five shot groups you could post?

here ya go cowgirl

 

[75thFTW]

Hey cowboy, you got any five shot groups you could post?

love the condescending "cowboy."

 

[Black max]

love the condescending "cowboy."

Glad you caught it! .2 and .35 MOA all day, LMAO! Your gonna be popular Around here!

 

[75thFTW]

Glad you caught it! .2 and .35 MOA all day, LMAO! Your gonna be popular Arou

Glad you caught it! .2 and .35 MOA all day, LMAO! Your gonna be popular Around here!

troll. ignored.

 

[DanJam]

If only LRP07/LRI20 in 308 weren’t so hard to find…. I’d have one by now

 

[Bigjake83]

If only LRP07/LRI20 in 308 weren’t so hard to find…. I’d have one by now

Have you tried calling JP?? I talked to them last week, said they're pushing orders out every 4-6 weeks.

 

[DanJam]

I will try them again. Thanks!
Early December their wait times were a lot longer.

 

[Bigjake83]

I will try them again. Thanks!
Early December their wait times were a lot longer.

I'd also take a hard look the Seekins SP10 there's a ton of them on GunBroker right now.

 

[DanJam]

I’ve heard great things about them.
I just know the quality and precision that comes standard from JP products.

 

[Bigjake83]

I’ve heard great things about them.
I just know the quality and precision that comes standard from JP products.

You're not loosing anything by going with the SP10, basically the only advanced the JP has over the SP10 is the side charging handle and enclosed upper receiver. The JP doesn't have the full Ambi lower that the Seekins does and you'll save around $1,500 or more going with the Seekins as well.

The JP can be a little tricky when it comes time to swap barrels while a monkey can do it on the Seekins. I own both and have rebarreled both more times than I can count.

Both rifles with their OEM barrels are going to shoot about the same, around .4 -.65 MOA.

The only down side to Seekins is that crappy Timney Trigger, swap that bad boy out with a TriggerTech Adaptable Trigger and she's ready for competition or just your weekend warrior shooting sessions at your local range.

Not sure why you're fixated on .308, I'd personally recommend going 6.5CM

Are you a reloader? Or just going to shoot box ammo?

 

[DanJam]

Hey man, I really want to thank you for your detailed response and all the knowledge. Very, very much appreciated! Thank You

I reload, I have a lot of 308 stuff, but my brother up in Alaska has been trying to get me into 6.5 for quite some time. I guess the only reason I have been reluctant is because of the way it tends to eat up barrels. Is that a legitimate concern? And widespread ammo availability of 7.62 and 308 compared to 6.5, is that an issue? I’ve seen the ballistics and they are very nice looking. 6.5 is nice straight flying round without much interference from wind. the 308 has more force inside of 500 yards or so, way more drop and less force after, if I am correct.
I guess I have it in my mind that it is a slightly weaker, but more long range round, that is harder on barrels, with less ammo availability. I don’t know if that assumption is correct anymore though.

 

[Bigjake83]

Right now where I live the price of Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is cheaper than FGMM 308 match ammo.

Barrel life is very subjective I easily get between 2500-3000 rounds before I even start thinking about replacing Barrels in my creedmoors, it all depends on how you treat your barrels if you're doing mag dumps or shooting excessively hot hand loads or steelcase ammo it's going to drastically decrease the barrel life of any Barrel.

And as far as your energy downrange at 500 yd I don't believe that's correct especially if you're shooting the 147 ELD.

 

[DanJam]

I’m in the south, have land, hunt deer, travel to hunt elk, and have the occasional midnight coyote hunt when they get too intruding. I have a scar 17s and it’s great but I want a little finer tuned, less boat paddle ish, of an all around semi auto rifle.

 

[DanJam]

You really got me interested in the Seekins. I did not know they were that comparable to JP. I did not know they were half MOA capable.
With the 6.5 CM, do you see it being replaced by another more capable round in the near term or is it here to stay?

I can get 6.5 setup and be on my way reloading. I don’t find it necessary to reload hot rounds in most circumstances. In most of my rifles, it doesn’t provide better accuracy and can actually distort harmonics decreasing accuracy. Midnight coyote clearing it isn’t uncommon to run 20 rounds in a few minutes.
So that being said, you would choose 6.5cm all day long over 7.62 or 308 for long range and close if necessary?
I really admire semi auto, long range capable rifles that have become as accurate as bolt action rifles.

Weapons systems have come a long way from my first true love (M1 Garand that I inherited from my grandfather that he used in WWII - he was allowed to keep it after being a POW). He gave it to me when I was 12 (some 30+ years ago) and demanded I get accustomed to it and hunt with it. I can hit 10 inch steel plates at 500 yards with iron sights with not much concern (but oh what a drop).

Again, I really appreciate your time and sharing of knowledge.

 

[Bigjake83]

Yes I would choose 6.5CM over .308 any day for close or Long range, the recoil impulse is a lot smoother and you actually use less powder.

My average load with 6.5CM is between 40.0-41.0 with my .308's I'm running 43+grs of powder.

 

[DanJam]

Ok then I will add that caliber into the mix when trying to find a seekins, jp, or KAC (GAP has also been recommended) precision semi auto.

Not to get off track; Last Friday, a friend of mine came over to sight in a new rifle (I’ve got an up to 1,500 yard range set up in one of the fields, which is really just an open deer lane on the side of a dove field with a pile of dirt I moved with the tractor at the end). He brought a friend with him who had a 300 win mag in an AR platform. I didn’t know that “was a thing”. It was interesting, that specific one didn’t seem to be of great quality or accuracy. But I’m not aware of any sub moa capable semi auto 300 win mags in a comparable platform….

 

[otnot]

I will try them again. Thanks!
Early December their wait times were a lot longer.

Try EuroOptics

 

[BurtG]

troll. ignored.

Lol a couple 3 shot groups mean nothing.

5 shots show something.

5x5s on one sheet start to show a rifles true performance

Read litz. Educate yourself

 

[75thFTW]

Lol a couple 3 shot groups mean nothing.

5 shots show something.

5x5s on one sheet start to show a rifles true performance

Read litz. Educate yourself

I believe I posted a five shot group, and I agree that five shot groups are a better representation of accuracy/precision. Ten shot groups are best.

 

[b6graham]

I believe I posted a five shot group, and I agree that five shot groups are a better representation of accuracy/precision. Ten shot groups are best.

if 10 is good 20 is better

 

[75thFTW]

if 10 is good 20 is better

absolutely

 

[FALex]

Ok then I will add that caliber into the mix when trying to find a seekins, jp, or KAC (GAP has also been recommended) precision semi auto.

Not to get off track; Last Friday, a friend of mine came over to sight in a new rifle (I’ve got an up to 1,500 yard range set up in one of the fields, which is really just an open deer lane on the side of a dove field with a pile of dirt I moved with the tractor at the end). He brought a friend with him who had a 300 win mag in an AR platform. I didn’t know that “was a thing”. It was interesting, that specific one didn’t seem to be of great quality or accuracy. But I’m not aware of any sub moa capable semi auto 300 win mags in a comparable platform….

Just want to throw it out there that if you've got the 15k+ to purchase the KAC 6.5 rifle, I'd like to sell drugs with you, sir! LMAO!!!

And I will also advocate for going to 6.5 in a precision gas gun. I still have multiple .308's, but IMHO, they're just lacking in ever regard when compared against the 6.5's.

 

[BurtG]

lacking in ever regard

@Terry Cross would disagree with you at least in regards to specialty projectile availability

 

[FALex]

@Terry Cross would disagree with you at least in regards to specialty projectile availability

"Special projectile availability..." come on man. After reading the OP's post, is that the only thing you could think of? Does he seem like the type that is gonna be into those types of projectiles? Gonna stuff a 185gr Juggernaut down an AR's throat?

Unbelievable.

 

[BurtG]

Unbelievable

Well there’s a fair amount of piglets and .mil here. It may be believable to them lol

 

[Black max]

185 jugs run awesome out of my cradock 308ar!

 

[BurtG]

Yeah barrier blind , ap , frangible , etc

Smh

 

[Thebiglebowski]

The LRP is an interesting build. Wish it was ambi.

 

[DanJam]

You're not loosing anything by going with the SP10, basically the only advanced the JP has over the SP10 is the side charging handle and enclosed upper receiver. The JP doesn't have the full Ambi lower that the Seekins does and you'll save around $1,500 or more going with the Seekins as well.

The JP can be a little tricky when it comes time to swap barrels while a monkey can do it on the Seekins. I own both and have rebarreled both more times than I can count.

Both rifles with their OEM barrels are going to shoot about the same, around .4 -.65 MOA.

The only down side to Seekins is that crappy Timney Trigger, swap that bad boy out with a TriggerTech Adaptable Trigger and she's ready for competition or just your weekend warrior shooting sessions at your local range.

Not sure why you're fixated on .308, I'd personally recommend going 6.5CM

Are you a reloader? Or just going to shoot box ammo?

It’s looking like seekins with a upgraded trigger may be the way to go.
Can’t find any downside to what you said.
Your info checks out!
Thanks

 

[Bigjake83]

It’s looking like seekins with a upgraded trigger may be the way to go.
Can’t find any downside to what you said.
Your info checks out!
Thanks

Well thanks, I was worried for a second..lol

 

[cali_tz]

Have a shorter barrel LRP-07, one of the early builds, in 6.5CM. I cannot get it to shoot reliably at 0.75MOA or less at 100 yards.
Tried a few Hornady off the shelf selections and Prime, but still no help. Tried all kinds of things.
I am sure some of it is my issue with how to operate a semi vs my Tikka bolt in same caliber.

Also, in terms of group size, I never rate myself on a 3 shot group. I think to really get to a rough idea of the practical group size limit, for sure 5, but more like 10 is going to reveal the achievable practical group size.

 

[otnot]

Have a shorter barrel LRP-07, one of the early builds, in 6.5CM. I cannot get it to shoot reliably at 0.75MOA or less at 100 yards.
Tried a few Hornady off the shelf selections and Prime, but still no help. Tried all kinds of things.
I am sure some of it is my issue with how to operate a semi vs my Tikka bolt in same caliber.

Also, in terms of group size, I never rate myself on a 3 shot group. I think to really get to a rough idea of the practical group size limit, for sure 5, but more like 10 is going to reveal the achievable practical group size.

It took me several thousand rounds to learn how to shoot my JP with any consistency. There is a lot of good information in this thread to get you there. Have you tried any 123 gr. bullets? That is what Jp recommends.

https://jprifles.com/document_pdfs/JP Loading Information 2015.09.29.pdf
The three things that helped me the most was learning to trigger folllow through. Hold the trigger back after you fire. I replaced the trigger with a Triggertech Diamond. And I know I'm going to hear about it but I also put a EC tuner break on it and that alone cut my group size down in half. I think a tuner is perfect for the AR10 platform since your limited to magazine length for seating depth. If you keep after it there is a combination that will work for you.

 

[Tapper]

Have a shorter barrel LRP-07, one of the early builds, in 6.5CM. I cannot get it to shoot reliably at 0.75MOA or less at 100 yards.
Tried a few Hornady off the shelf selections and Prime, but still no help. Tried all kinds of things.
I am sure some of it is my issue with how to operate a semi vs my Tikka bolt in same caliber.

Also, in terms of group size, I never rate myself on a 3 shot group. I think to really get to a rough idea of the practical group size limit, for sure 5, but more like 10 is going to reveal the achievable practical group size.

To get your groups down below an MOA, you're probably going to need to reload.

 

[River44]

Some of y’all act like shooting a AR10 requires graduation from some advanced sniper school. Never in my life have I heard so many people say that shooting a ar10 is hard.

 

[FALex]

Some of y’all act like shooting a AR10 requires graduation from some advanced sniper school. Never in my life have I heard so many people say that shooting a ar10 is hard.

You are not entirely off base with your comment. With that being said, you do have to remember that the majority of this site is focused on bolt rifles. They are the bread and butter of the majority of the members, particularly those who are new to LR/PR. In fact, I would contend that most hide members found the site because of their interest in LR/PR with a bolt rifle. I know that is how I became a member a long time ago.

After their introduction into the sport, people then start wanting to try something different. In fact, many may not even realize that precision AR rifles are even a reality until they cruise the site, and enter into the community for a bit.

With that being said, running the AR does take some more fine tuning, especially if one is predominantly accustomed to only shooting bolt rifles. Fundamentals are fundamentals, absolutely, but there is definitely a certain amount of variance between the two platforms. Being mindful of said differences when shooting is important to precision work.