JP Tank Brake (Recoil Eliminator) for PRS Tactical .308

[MidRangeCrisis]

I have a lightweight 308 that I plan to campaign in PRS Tactical division next year and I'd like to make up for the weight loss with recoil reduction.

Seems like the JP Tank brake is the best thing going performance wise. Anyone have some first hand experience on this in a bolt gun?

I'll be at K&M mostly so shots will be from 300 to 1250 and I'd like to make up as much as I can for being blown out of the scope.

 

[Mordamer]

Pretty much all the high end brakes get very close to the same recoil reduction. Pick one and practice a lot.

 

[NewsShooter]

Tank brake is louder than most, used to see a few, not anymore. Area 419, APA, Muzzle brakes and more is the best deal.

 

[b6graham]

there's a reason you don't see them at matches

there are a ton of better options

 

[Steel head]

Bulky brake like that screams catching edges on barricades and obstacles.
That you never see them anymore should be a good indicator as well.

 

[GIXXER2000]

In PRS you will be putting the barrel thought hole and other tight spaces so you don't want a brake that can hang up and cost you time. As other have said Area 419, APA and Heathen are your best choice's.

Bulky brake like that screams catching edges on barricades and obstacles.
That you never see them anymore should be a good indicator as well.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

there's a reason you don't see them at matches

there are a ton of better options

What reason is that do you think?

Most of the brakes I've seen were on very nicely built, very heavy, very light cartridge (relative to .308) rigs where the brake performance would be sort of muted in the collective din of all the performance features of the system.

 

[StrayDog]

I shot .308 TAC last two seasons. My current favorite brake is the Impact Precision square two port that clamps, but they stopped making them.
Impact, please make more!
Not a fan of angled back ports, ran a hellfire, meh, but the PVA Jetblast is supposed to be a compromise on shooter-blast with good reduction. YMMV, good luck, the .308 still wins!

 

[b6graham]

What reason is that do you think?

Most of the brakes I've seen were on very nicely built, very heavy, very light cartridge (relative to .308) rigs where the brake performance would be sort of muted in the collective din of all the performance features of the system.

theyre unnecessarily large which is not great for going in and out of props

they're not any more effective than a A419/Heathen/APA/PVA

they're annoying

they look dumb

they're not self timing

they're OD is smaller than most barrels, even Palmas

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

In PRS you will be putting the barrel thought hole and other tight spaces so you don't want a brake that can hang up and cost you time. As other have said Area 419, APA and Heathen are your best choice's.

I'll admit my experience in this competitive format is limited to a handful of matches and shooting venues but nothing I have seen so far seems like the relative diameter and shape of the brake would have much bearing on shooting the stage. Or at least no more or less than all the other muzzle devices (big ol' suppressors leap to mind) you do see.

Is there something functional about the 419 or APA brake that trumps the JP Tank brake that I am missing? I've only seen it used by other shooters on gas guns at action matches but it always seemed to perform really well.

PRB seems to have done a pretty good comparison based on the type rifle and caliber I am shooting.

Muzzle Brake: Summary of Field Test Results

This post summarizes the eye-opening results for the massive muzzle brake field test I’ve worked on ...

precisionrifleblog.com

There is also the availability factor--JP tank brakes can be had and installed at the moment where it seems like all other contenders are on an indefinite back order. I have a match in February and like the gentleman says...practice practice practice.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

I shot .308 TAC last two seasons. My current favorite brake is the Impact Precision square two port that clamps, but they stopped making them.
Impact, please make more!
Not a fan of angled back ports, ran a hellfire, meh, but the PVA Jetblast is supposed to be a compromise on shooter-blast with good reduction. YMMV, good luck, the .308 still wins!

Doesn't bode well for getting this on the gun in time for practice but I'll look around for your favorites and see what there is.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

Tank brake is louder than most, used to see a few, not anymore. Area 419, APA, Muzzle brakes and more is the best deal.

Availability on the other nearly as good (performancewise), more conforming and esthetic brakes is a challenge right now though. I've been going straight to the manufacturer on most. Is there a retailer in particular I should be talking to?

Brownells and Europtic seem to be out of the good stuff.

 

[Steel head]

Personally I’d really look at the Heathen, it’s my favorite and isn’t really nasty to be around.
I also have a area 419 and I’d recommend one of those as well.

 

[StrayDog]

Jet Blast Muzzle Brake

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

And it's on sale--so you'll have it quick--buy direct.
I can't find Impact brakes anymore, but you can keep an eye on the PX, the last impact brake I got for my 6.5 was from a WTB post there, but you have to be PX eligible.
Brakes are accessories, you'll end up trying a few... the Heathen has always looked good to me with its primary large square port.
I agree with the above that the JP is not ideal for the prs/nrl games...
A Sherman tank barrel should wear a Sherman tank brake! But only @b6graham could pull that off.

 

[b6graham]

I'll admit my experience in this competitive format is limited to a handful of matches and shooting venues but nothing I have seen so far seems like the relative diameter and shape of the brake would have much bearing on shooting the stage. Or at least no more or less than all the other muzzle devices (big ol' suppressors leap to mind) you do see.

Is there something functional about the 419 or APA brake that trumps the JP Tank brake that I am missing? I've only seen it used by other shooters on gas guns at action matches but it always seemed to perform really well.

PRB seems to have done a pretty good comparison based on the type rifle and caliber I am shooting.

Muzzle Brake: Summary of Field Test Results

This post summarizes the eye-opening results for the massive muzzle brake field test I’ve worked on ...

precisionrifleblog.com

There is also the availability factor--JP tank brakes can be had and installed at the moment where it seems like all other contenders are on an indefinite back order. I have a match in February and like the gentleman says...practice practice practice.

god. that test needs to be removed from the internet for the sake of everyone

check the date. 2015

nothing we use now was created yet

also A419 brakes are in stock right from their website

function. yes. theyre as/more effective than the JP. they're self timing. and they are a correct diameter.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

Personally I’d really look at the Heathen, it’s my favorite and isn’t really nasty to be around.
I also have a area 419 and I’d recommend one of those as well.

What are you running those on? My main concern is staying on target and it seems like a lot of that comes from the gas volume and barrel loading.

My rifle wears a 24" Proof Carbon Sendero profile barrel and comes in about 9-10 lbs dressed and loaded. Not a great place to start for sure but my alternatives are not better. The .223 VSSF can't do the long shots at K&M (well not with me driving) and my 30" barreled tube gun is just not worth the trouble it causes as it's more of a F-TR/NRA/Palma rig.

 

[Steel head]

What are you running those on? My main concern is staying on target and it seems like a lot of that comes from the gas volume and barrel loading.

My rifle wears a 24" Proof Carbon Sendero profile barrel and comes in about 9-10 lbs dressed and loaded. Not a great place to start for sure but my alternatives are not better. The .223 VSSF can't do the long shots at K&M (well not with me driving) and my 30" barreled tube gun is just not worth the trouble it causes as it's more of a F-TR/NRA/Palma rig.

My Heathen is on a fairly light 260 (13#) and I have a sidewinder on my 7 saum.
The 260 is very pleasant to shoot and tracks awesome.

The 7mm recoil is mild but unpleasant anywhere but directly behind the rifle

 

[b6graham]

i use

Heathen in 6mm for 22LRV, 6XC, 6Creed, 6BR
Sidewinder in 30cal for 6.5Creed, 7SAW, 30SM

used hellfire in the past on 6XC and 6.5Creed too

i'd have no issue running the new 4 or 5 port heathens too. that would be my choice for a new brake

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

i use

Heathen in 6mm for 22LRV, 6XC, 6Creed, 6BR
Sidewinder in 30cal for 6.5Creed, 7SAW, 30SM

used hellfire in the past on 6XC and 6.5Creed too

i'd have no issue running the new 4 or 5 port heathens too. that would be my choice for a new brake

Thanks, I'll see what the bank can support and pick up at least one of those for the .308

 

[NewsShooter]

Availability on the other nearly as good (performancewise), more conforming and esthetic brakes is a challenge right now though. I've been going straight to the manufacturer on most. Is there a retailer in particular I should be talking to?

Brownells and Europtic seem to be out of the good stuff.

I won't buy a brake anymore that isn't self timing, I want to be able to easily take it off and clean it as they will build up carbon in the ports.

Area 419 is available, https://www.area419.com/product/hellfire_st/
APA is available https://www.americanprecisionarms.com/collections/gen-2-muzzle-brakes/products/gen2-fat-bastard
CS tactical has the muzzle brakes and more, https://www.cstactical.com/mbm-beast-brake-2-piece-stainless

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

god. that test needs to be removed from the internet for the sake of everyone

check the date. 2015

nothing we use now was created yet

also A419 brakes are in stock right from their website

function. yes. theyre as/more effective than the JP. they're self timing. and they are a correct diameter.

Well, maybe time for an update then. I like his data driven approach and actual test methodology. Maybe do that but with the newer stuff.

Is there a more recent comparison?

Not for nothing but some the best work on this subject was done around the turn of the 20th century by Prussian ordnance scientists. Admittedly for much bigger systems. Point being is that there can't be that much new under the sun in 5 short years.

 

[eddie102870]

I know two AMU guys who shoot for a living that run them. i have them on two rifles and they work extremely well. never had a problem with props

 

[308ftWIN]

Have the Tank brake on a 300Win Howa. Works great. Between it and a good recoil pad, rifle shoots like a 308. It'll give you a headache in 25 rounds though. Having said all that I don't think I'd compete with it for reasons above.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

I won't buy a brake anymore that isn't self timing, I want to be able to easily take it off and clean it as they will build up carbon in the ports.

Area 419 is available, https://www.area419.com/product/hellfire_st/
APA is available https://www.americanprecisionarms.com/collections/gen-2-muzzle-brakes/products/gen2-fat-bastard
CS tactical has the muzzle brakes and more, https://www.cstactical.com/mbm-beast-brake-2-piece-stainless

419s were backorder items in the configuration I need and the APA were stainless only (not a deal breaker but...you know 'esthetics')

The CS tactical brake looks good. Might grab one and try it.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

Have the Tank brake on a 300Win Howa. Works great. Between it and a good recoil pad, rifle shoots like a 308. It'll give you a headache in 25 rounds though. Having said all that I don't think I'd compete with it for reasons above.

This will be a .308 tuned down for accuracy and maximized internal ballistic performance so I may be able to pull off a whole 100 round match. Maybe Tylenol can sponsor me.

I'll try several including the JP

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

I know two AMU guys who shoot for a living that run them. i have them on two rifles and they work extremely well. never had a problem with props

Yeah I mean if you can run a 1.5"-1.8" wide suppressor then it seems like a brake shouldn't hang up any more than that. But hey...you never know. Lotta folks jamming their muzzles thtough 2" holes out there?

 

[47guy]

i personally ran the tank brake for about 5yrs on a 300wm and a 260....are they ugly? yes. are they loud? yes. are the big? yes. would they ever cause an issue stuffing them through a hole in a barricade? NO! are they effective at reducing recoil? you bet your ass they are!

ill be honest here i started running the 419 brakes because they look better not because they are better at reducing recoil...that said i am going back to a straight port design brake and have started testing a few brakes to see whats going to work the best for me...i have a hawkins precision and 2 harrels brakes that im going to play with this weekend.

ive shot the hawkins and its pretty nice but does not reduce the recoil as much as the 419 does but it does stay on target very well...i shot the hawkins pulled it put the 419 on and shot it so yes it was a side by side test...the reason im going to a straight port brake is the 419 and just about all the brakes now days send the muzzle blast back towards the shooter which helps with recoil reduction but i dont care for the muzzle blast personally.

 

[47guy]

harrels are the first pic the Hawkins are the others.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

Doesn't bode well for getting this on the gun in time for practice but I'll look around for your favorites and see what there is.

Just ordered a Jet Blast brake. Good pricing there!

We'll see how it performs.

 

[b6graham]

Well, maybe time for an update then. I like his data driven approach and actual test methodology. Maybe do that but with the newer stuff.

Is there a more recent comparison?

Not for nothing but some the best work on this subject was done around the turn of the 20th century by Prussian ordnance scientists. Admittedly for much bigger systems. Point being is that there can't be that much new under the sun in 5 short years.

if you want confirmation bias you're not gonna get it here

run the JP and report back.

or convince PRB to do the test again with all the new brakes

 

[NewsShooter]

This will be a .308 tuned down for accuracy and maximized internal ballistic performance so I may be able to pull off a whole 100 round match.
I'll try several including the JP

I'm not sure that that means? If you're shooting over 800 I'd want speed and a bullet that doesn't have a tendency to tumble past 800.

 

[Steel head]

i personally ran the tank brake for about 5yrs on a 300wm and a 260....are they ugly? yes. are they loud? yes. are the big? yes. would they ever cause an issue stuffing them through a hole in a barricade? NO! are they effective at reducing recoil? you bet your ass they are!

ill be honest here i started running the 419 brakes because they look better not because they are better at reducing recoil...that said i am going back to a straight port design brake and have started testing a few brakes to see whats going to work the best for me...i have a hawkins precision and 2 harrels brakes that im going to play with this weekend.

ive shot the hawkins and its pretty nice but does not reduce the recoil as much as the 419 does but it does stay on target very well...i shot the hawkins pulled it put the 419 on and shot it so yes it was a side by side test...the reason im going to a straight port brake is the 419 and just about all the brakes now days send the muzzle blast back towards the shooter which helps with recoil reduction but i dont care for the muzzle blast personally.

That’s why I like the Heathen.
Tracks well and can easily shoot it all day.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

i personally ran the tank brake for about 5yrs on a 300wm and a 260....are they ugly? yes. are they loud? yes. are the big? yes. would they ever cause an issue stuffing them through a hole in a barricade? NO! are they effective at reducing recoil? you bet your ass they are!

ill be honest here i started running the 419 brakes because they look better not because they are better at reducing recoil...that said i am going back to a straight port design brake and have started testing a few brakes to see whats going to work the best for me...i have a hawkins precision and 2 harrels brakes that im going to play with this weekend.

ive shot the hawkins and its pretty nice but does not reduce the recoil as much as the 419 does but it does stay on target very well...i shot the hawkins pulled it put the 419 on and shot it so yes it was a side by side test...the reason im going to a straight port brake is the 419 and just about all the brakes now days send the muzzle blast back towards the shooter which helps with recoil reduction but i dont care for the muzzle blast personally.

Since I can't get a 419 in a timely manner, I'll settle for a side by side shootout with the JP tank, PVA Jet Blast, and probably the CSA brake. I've got a three port brake on hand now as well that I will run for the fun of it and see what happens. It's pretty rudimentary.

So 47Guy huh...I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you and I might gave been a Chinook mech/crew chief/driver?

 

[47guy]

or convince PRB to do the test again with all the new brakes

this is what id like to see.

 

[47guy]

Since I can't get a 419 in a timely manner, I'll settle for a side by side shootout with the JP tank, PVA Jet Blast, and probably the CSA brake. I've got a three port brake on hand now as well that I will run for the fun of it and see what happens. It's pretty rudimentary.

So 47Guy huh...I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you and I might gave been a Chinook mech/crew chief/driver?

lol no ive been in roofing for 33yrs now.

 

[b6graham]

both A419 brakes are available from altus right now

so is the APA FB gen3

or get a used one from the PX

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

I'm not sure that that means? If you're shooting over 800 I'd want speed and a bullet that doesn't have a tendency to tumble past 800.

Shooting Berger 175 OTM at about 2700-2800 FPS with powder optimized to burn out as much as possible in a 24" barrel and reduce port pressure at the muzzle compared to other possible options.

Obviously the bullet has to get there so speed and consistency reign supreme. The 175 OTM handles the transonic range better than average and the math says it won't get that slow until about 1100-1200 yards anyhow. Most shots are 300-800.

After that, just trying to keep the target in the scope to observe splash is a priority. Thus the recoil management game.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

both A419 brakes are available from altus right now

so is the APA FB gen3

or get a used one from the PX

Can't shop at the PX (yet) but I will check the other resources. New to this game so the suppliers are a bit of a mystery.

 

[b6graham]

Shooting Berger 175 OTM at about 2700-2800 FPS with powder optimized to burn out as much as possible in a 24" barrel and reduce port pressure at the muzzle compared to other possible options.

Obviously the bullet has to get there so speed and consistency reign supreme. The 175 OTM handles the transonic range better than average and the math says it won't get that slow until about 1100-1200 yards anyhow. Most shots are 300-800.

After that, just trying to keep the target in the scope to observe splash is a priority. Thus the recoil management game.

explain how you're doing this

 

[b6graham]

Can't shop at the PX (yet) but I will check the other resources. New to this game so the suppliers are a bit of a mystery.

you'll have PX access in about 30 minutes based on this thread

 

[THEIS]

This will be a .308 tuned down for accuracy and maximized internal ballistic performance so I may be able to pull off a whole 100 round match.

Hi,

Can you please explain what you intend to do in order to maximize internal ballistic performance?
Not just with this brake vs that brake but everything in general.
What "tuning down" are you doing to maximize internal ballistic performance?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

explain how you're doing this

I select powders that consistently burn over 95% in the barrel length considering the projectile and desired velocity and produce relatively low port pressures and gas volumes at the muzzle based on modeling in QuickLoad.

I have buckets of IMR-4166 for International Palma and heavy .223 loads. It's not the highest velocity (seems like CFE 223 is) but it does burn clean, very consistent, and handles well in my meter. It might not be the best for this though. But like I said, I have a lot.

Obviously there is a difference in a 24" braked versus a 30" unbraked barrel (palma gun) in this case. I shoot my palma gun as a repeater as well in NRA high power XTC so muzzle behavior in sustained fire was always a consideration.

There is a certain advantage to a little extra port pressure I suppose when shooting braked. We'll try a couple things and see what works.

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

you'll have PX access in about 30 minutes based on this thread

He's on to me...

 

[b6graham]

He's on to me...

multi posting/replying is also a way to get a kitty kitty appointment

 

[MidRangeCrisis]

multi posting/replying is also a way to get a kitty kitty appointment

Had to look that up...interesting. Perception being what it is, I'll bow to the more seasoned members' opinions and consider myself well served from the conversation as it stands.

Thanks for the advice, anecdotal evidence, and the information/resources.

For now, JP Enterprises, Altus, CS Tactical, and PVA will get my money. Look out for deals on mildly used brakes in the PX in the future if I ever make it.

PM me if you are interested in the test results. Should have something done by the middle/end of January.

 

[b6graham]

Had to look that up...interesting. Perception being what it is, I'll bow to the more seasoned members' opinions and consider myself well served from the conversation as it stands.

Thanks for the advice, anecdotal evidence, and the information/resources.

For now, JP Enterprises, Altus, CS Tactical, and PVA will get my money. Look out for deals on mildly used brakes in the PX in the future if I ever make it.

PM me if you are interested in the test results. Should have something done by the middle/end of January.

post the thread. there will be more than one curious person to see a comparison between the 4 brakes

 

[Rob01]

I shot .308 TAC last two seasons. My current favorite brake is the Impact Precision square two port that clamps, but they stopped making them.
Impact, please make more!
Not a fan of angled back ports, ran a hellfire, meh, but the PVA Jetblast is supposed to be a compromise on shooter-blast with good reduction. YMMV, good luck, the .308 still wins!

They are. I run a PVA Jet4 on my .308 Tac rig and it works great without a ton of blast back towards shooter.

 

[hypertex]

Muzzle Brakes: Ability To Stay On Target

I have the JP on the LR-308, Tubb on the 37XC and the new Gen 3 APA on the 6XC. No complaints. I recall back when PRS was in diapers that people didn't call the JP a Recoil Eliminator but a Competitor Eliminator as many stages where run with two shooters.

 

[Jakeweb09]

Muzzle brakes and more seem to be best bang for your buck out there

 

[hypertex]

...best bang for your buck...

mod +1 Funny