Ok so my 6,5 CM shoots GREAT ,, However ,,,,,,, ( and stay with me here) When I load Factory ammo it chambers and fires from the Mag just fine. I use my hand loads and it will chamber the first round but no bang , just a click. So I checked the cases,,, made SURE they were resized all the way down to the base, Check. made sure the COAL was right ,check. loaded 10 in the mag. sent te bolt home pulled the trigger and " CLICK". Now when I manually load the FIRST round by hand, and send the bolt home BANG! every time. I can hand load the first round and close the bolt and THEN slap the mag in and every one will run without a hitch . So I thought maybe the bolt wasn't being pulled BACK quite far enough to overcome spring tension , friction and the feed ramps. so i loaded some empty rounds,,, seated the bullets, primed the case ( no powder in the case) and loaded the mag to see if the primer would go . and again NOTHING ,, but the primers WAS struck and didn't even detonate . just a click. No clue whats going on here but it's driving me nutts. Hand load the first one the put the mag in and no prb. ,, load a mag put it in and click. Any thoughts?
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Just goes " CLICK"
- Thread starter MAGA4LIFE
- Start date
my buddy had and issue similar, although yours does have some quirks.
Have you measured the shoulder of a fired cased vs one of your resized cases? His issue was he was bumping the shoulder too much and wasnt getting reliable ignition. Itd have a dent but not deep enough to ignite and it would happen once or during a string of issues.
.002 is around where you want to be on bump compared to a fired case.
Have you measured the shoulder of a fired cased vs one of your resized cases? His issue was he was bumping the shoulder too much and wasnt getting reliable ignition. Itd have a dent but not deep enough to ignite and it would happen once or during a string of issues.
.002 is around where you want to be on bump compared to a fired case.
"Till it goes click?"
If you're getting a dimpled primer and the factory rounds are cooking off then something is wrong with the primers.
If it's light see above for true.
If you're getting a dimpled primer and the factory rounds are cooking off then something is wrong with the primers.
If it's light see above for true.
This was my thought as well......with it sized too much your firing pin is just pushing the loaded round into the chamber and not actually igniting the primer. I try to bump the shoulder as little as possible..... .000” - .002”
What primer are you using??
Are those pics from ones that clicked or went bang? They definitely look like they were hit hard enough to go bang.
winchester large rifle primers never had a issue before ,, and you can see from the pics that those primers are being struck good... I don't think its shallow strikes.
so after i load and fire my rounds should I not resize them ,,,? should i LEAVE THE CASE ALONE AND just NECK SIZE the case since it's as the say " fire formed " to MY chamber?
Not for a gas gun.
Measure shoulders compared to factory maybe a little short?
Measure shoulders compared to factory maybe a little short?
You really need a way to measure how far you are pushing back the shoulder.
I full length size every fireing bumping the shoulder back .001-.002.
Google head space comparator or shoulder bump gauge. Hornady makes one. I think mine is a Sinclair branded one. They clamp on the jaw of a caliper.
If your shoulder bump is ok it is either your primers or something wrong with your rifle.
Judging by your pics i am saying bad primers
Eta. .001-.002 bump is for a bolt gun you will want more for a gas gun
I full length size every fireing bumping the shoulder back .001-.002.
Google head space comparator or shoulder bump gauge. Hornady makes one. I think mine is a Sinclair branded one. They clamp on the jaw of a caliper.
If your shoulder bump is ok it is either your primers or something wrong with your rifle.
Judging by your pics i am saying bad primers
Eta. .001-.002 bump is for a bolt gun you will want more for a gas gun
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For gas guns thats normal.
Have not actually neck sized for a gas gun .
I bump my cases back .003 and they
Run fine.
If you bump back too far it could cause your problem, i have had a 223 die set and moved the press and do that because the press was fouling the bench slightly and when moved to correct the problem forgot to reset that die.
Have not actually neck sized for a gas gun .
I bump my cases back .003 and they
Run fine.
If you bump back too far it could cause your problem, i have had a 223 die set and moved the press and do that because the press was fouling the bench slightly and when moved to correct the problem forgot to reset that die.
As a lazy Reloder I tried neck sizing for an AR.
My findings lead me to not recommend it.
- Mar 15, 2018
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It's highly unlikely to be a bad primer unless they got submerged in water or something. Primers are 99.9997% reliable, you would have to fire 300,000 rounds to encounter a bad one. One guess is that they are not seated properly in the pocket. If there is a slight air gap between the primer and the bottom of the primer pocket it acts as a cushion even with a hard primer strike (the energy from the firing pin is absorbed by fully seating the primer when it strikes it). I would make sure you are seating your primers deep enough (you should be measuring/checking this anyway). It should be .002" to .009" below flush, but in any case seated to the bottom of the pocket.
FL size every time.....FL not only bumps the shoulder and sizes the neck....it also sizes the case body to allow the round inter the chamber easily. So it is very necessary to size every time.....that .000” - .002 is what I do in a bolt gun.....just enough to have a little bit of stiffness closing a bolt.
On a auto loader..... .0015” - .003
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Do you have anymore ammo that you reloaded and NOT fired? Can you take a picture of the primer area like you did for the fired ammo?
check shoulder bump
Check primer seating depth
I can just about promise one of those or both will fix your problem.
Check primer seating depth
I can just about promise one of those or both will fix your problem.
nope,, primers are fine guys ,, I know it's not the primers
i've fired several hundred rounds from this rifle ,, the thing shoots GREAT ,, COULDN'T be happier with it ... The only thing is that FIRST round,,,, it wont go off if you chamber from the mag,,, drop the mag, slide one in and send the bolt home ,THEN put the mag in and BOOM every time . Factory ammo does not do that ,, only my hand loads ,, so I'm thinking the cases need to be trimmed back a thou or two.
If the cases were too long youd have a hard bolt close and the case would actually be pushed against the bolt face better.
We say check case shoulder bump because if its too much bump the cartridge will not sit against the bolt face firmly enough and cause light primer strikes. We also say check primer seating depth because not enough depth and the primer isnt supported, so when the firing pin hits the primer it just pushes it farther into the case, causing a dimple but no boom.
the mag thing is odd but once the round is in the chamber, mag or hand fed, it shouldnt matter how it got there, first round or last round. Could just be coincidence if you didnt test it repeated quite a few times.
You say you checked and the cases are sized all the way down, even my FL sized cases (i FL size EVERY time) have about 1/8" or so unsized space just before the extractor groove. If ALL of the case is sized, that's a fairly good indicator you are pushing the shoulder back way too far.
If you dont want to or want an expedient method to test the shoulder bump then pop the primer out of a spent case (dont resize) and try chambering. It will likely be stiff bolt close. Now loosen your sizing die and SLOWLY work the sizing die down and try sizing and chambering just until the bolt closes easily (like factory ammo), no more than needed. Hell you could even have a smidge of resistance to test this portion of the theory.
As for your primers, if you have an unfired case/cartridge from that last reloading session take a caliper and measure it with the depth rod on the back size. The primer should NOT be flush with the back of the case and someone gave a range up above but I typically like to see about .004-.006 depth to ensure a good seat. I dont know what you use to seat your primers but that may need looking into also.
Just sayin, ive never seen primers that bloated and deformed looking.
How does your resized headspace compare to factory ammo?
nope,, primers are fine guys ,, I know it's not the primers
Great Info bro.. i'll check the shoulder bump ,,, as for the primers i use a hand priming tool, Frankford Arsenal ,, it's a great tool because you can actually adjust with a dial how deep or shallow you can ste the primer,I've never had primer issues with this thing ,, But if you say flush with the case base is no bueno then I'll counter sink em just a slight fuzz. But if you look at the pics I attached you'll see that the primers are DEFINITELY being struck hard enough . So........ I'm thinking it has to be shoulder issues. I'll really pay close attention to the numbers next batch i load. COAL, diameter, etc.. I dont have a case comparator , so I'm limited to my digital calipers .
Without a shoulder comparitor you have a bad blind spot.
Get one next payday to save money on rounds down range.
Will pay for it's self soon.
If nothing else it will shut up half this thread, money well spent.
Lol
Get one next payday to save money on rounds down range.
Will pay for it's self soon.
If nothing else it will shut up half this thread, money well spent.
Lol
I use the same seating tool. The instructions tell you to go slow and check by placing case on flat surface until there is no wobble caused by primer protrusion. When you can feel the case head flat/flush on flat surface, then go another .003 to .008 below case head.
You should pull bullets on the cases that did not fire, decap and see if the primer fired. I can see you tried to re-fire a couple of them. Bumps and primer seat depth need to be figured out as explained, primers need to bottom out in the pocket regardless of pocket depth. Some loaders talk of a crush fit on primers, I have never understood that one, so no expert.
The only way I can think of your magazine could enter the equation if primer is seated deep enough is recoil is giggling your powder around in the case, and the primer is going off but you do not have enough powder in the case, not igniting powder. If they do fire, you're in a hangfire scenario.
So give us your charge of the cases, but first we need to know if the primers fired.
- Mar 15, 2018
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Correct. You don't seat primers flush you sink them to the bottom of the primer pocket (refer to my earlier post); they should be at the very minimum .002 below flush but more likely .004-.008 below flush. What I believe you are seeing is a pocket of air between the primer and the bottom of the primer pocket. It is acting as a cushion when the firing pin strikes the primer and then causing the primer to fully seat. This is also why you will sometimes see a "click" turn into a "bang" on a second firing because now the primer is properly seated. You should know the depth of the primer pocket, the dimension of the primer and how below flush it should be seated (you need to accurately measure all this) so that it is bottoming out in the pocket. I do not personally believe this is a shoulder issue.
Primer Crush is when the cup bottoms out pushing the anvil up flush.
If the primer is high then your pockets are shallow.
If several thousandths below flush you might want to stop with the pocket uniformer
Do you feel you need a primer crush to fire a rd?View attachment 7270623
Primer Crush is when the cup bottoms out pushing the anvil up flush.
If the primer is high then your pockets are shallow.
If several thousandths below flush you might want to stop with the pocket uniformer
I'm sure someone read about primer crush (seating until the anvil is crushed flush with the cup) and thought
"if a little crush is good, then more is better"
If the cup does not bottom out in the pocket it may or may not ignite.
You can measure if you want, or just seat till they bottom.
Everybody knows that but get all caught up on the word CRUSH.
"if a little crush is good, then more is better"
If the cup does not bottom out in the pocket it may or may not ignite.
You can measure if you want, or just seat till they bottom.
Everybody knows that but get all caught up on the word CRUSH.
Me, no, I just seat to the bottom of the pocket. You put a primer on a steel table and hammer it with a centerpunch, it is going off, no crush or moving the anvil forward.Do you bottom the anvil, or the cup?
If you Crush the cup, that's way too much
I bet the anvil moves, just a little bit with the punch and hammer
Everybody knows to seat flush or below.
Dial in some depth with a super duper primer seater.
What IF that isn't enough to bottom the cup?
Like you, I bottom by feel.
Now someone come up with a meme
Feel the cup
Everybody knows to seat flush or below.
Dial in some depth with a super duper primer seater.
What IF that isn't enough to bottom the cup?
Like you, I bottom by feel.
Now someone come up with a meme
Feel the cup
A firing pin should do the same thing then.I bet the anvil moves, just a little bit with the punch and hammer
I've loaded 1,000s of 223 and countless pistol rounds over the years..... I know what a primer going off sounds like. I'm not having primer issues. Is got to be shoulder or case base sizing issues. HAS to be. I'm getting a comparator and OAL gauge tomorrow. Please keep in mind, over never loaded a large round before, just 223, and pistol. Now I'm loading 6.5. I'm sure there's more to consider.
You might also consider that if these are once fired and if you dont size the case enough it could cause the bolt NOT to close to the point you get light primer strikes.
If you have any unfired loads, try stripping the bolt from the BCG, remove the ejector and with a bullet seated in the end of the bolt see if it will easily chamber and you can twist it so that the lugs lock.
How are you measuring the shoulder when you size them?
If you have any unfired loads, try stripping the bolt from the BCG, remove the ejector and with a bullet seated in the end of the bolt see if it will easily chamber and you can twist it so that the lugs lock.
How are you measuring the shoulder when you size them?
Yet here you are seeking advice. Good luck.
If you loaded 1,000’s of .223 this should be as basic as what you are reloading now!
If it’s case base issues a simple caliper or micrometer can tell you the answer, I measure fired cases at the neck/mouth, by the shoulder and around .300” up from the head of the case or where you can see where the sizing die goes down to, should be easy to see and I write those figures down.
If you don’t have measurements your just guessing.
Just saying.
What is the exact type, brand and part number is you dies.....some say you have to use small base dies with auto loaders and some say regular dies work.....depends on the barrel/chamber and what it likes.
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So to reiterate and because I don't want to read thru every answer here:
-First round (handload) out of a mag won't go bang. Have you tried a different magazine?
-subsequent handloads from the same mag will fire?
I'm no AR expert but it certainly sounds like the top round off of the magazine is giving too much resistance and the rifle isn't going fully into battery. Yet when you single feed the same round, it is going fully into battery and firing.
Double check you measurements and case lengths (OAL, COAL, trim length) which it sounds like you've done. I would also check firing pin protrusion and how clean is your rifle?
-First round (handload) out of a mag won't go bang. Have you tried a different magazine?
-subsequent handloads from the same mag will fire?
I'm no AR expert but it certainly sounds like the top round off of the magazine is giving too much resistance and the rifle isn't going fully into battery. Yet when you single feed the same round, it is going fully into battery and firing.
Double check you measurements and case lengths (OAL, COAL, trim length) which it sounds like you've done. I would also check firing pin protrusion and how clean is your rifle?
