Rifle Scopes Just venting some frustration

[DP425]

I'll start this off by saying, I love Seekins products and I really appreciate their military discount. I've used their stuff before and have came back to them when buying more items.

But, I'm a bit disappointed; a month ago I contacted them and inquired if they had their HS Precision SRS rails and R700 SA 20moa 8-40 bases in stock. I was told yes they did, just place the order and they'd be in the mail. Keep in mind, I'm ordering two of each for my new rifles. So feb 11th I place the order.

Through email correspondence I find out that the items were not actually in stock; there had been some sort of error in getting them to or from the vender who does their finishes. Okay- aggravating but shit happens. Last week I get a tracking number for UPS- package shows up today with my stuff. Now I'm happy!

Well, I unscrew the sling studs and go to screw in the allen head bolts to attach the SRS rail on my .308 and pretty quickly feel abnormal resistance. Pull the screw out and compare it to the sling stud- the screw is courser than the sling stud. WTF??? Well, I emailed them back and am awaiting word. I hope this is just the case of the 5R rifles or a select few of the HS stocks having finer than normal sling studs. If they sent the wrong bolts, I'm going to be incredibly disappointed- not in an angry, I want to toss you off a cliff way, but in a really let down, far under expectation kind of way.

And all of this on top of one of the rifles coming with a chipped stock that required me to send it back to Remington. WTF is going on with my luck lately???

Anyway, I'm going to head to the fastener store and see if I can get allen head screws of the correct size and pitch and hopefully I can get this rail mounted today.

Just an FYI for anyone ordering the SRS (sling rail system); compare your new hardware with the sling studs you're removing to be sure they match up. If this is an accident, I would find it hard to believe I'm the only one who is experiencing this. And if it's a variance in the HS stocks, people also need to be aware. This could easily strip out the holes.


I'll update this with what Seekins says; I hope it's not an error on their end. I'm just tired of running into problems with ALL of my shit that I order lately! If my second Dillon 550B that I ordered comes in jacked up, I swear I'm going to beat my head against a wall until the blood comes.

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration

Oh upon another look, the supplied bolts are also shorter than the studs that came off. But that may not be an issue since it appears the metal insert which the studs thread into isn't more than 1/4" thick despite a bore depth of nearly an inch. This is, in my personal opinion an area which could use a little improvement from HS. They have the depth available, the threaded insert should be a little thicker to give more thread-bearing surface and added strength for the sling studs, which on a rifle such as this will get used much harder than a typical hunting rifle.

Anyway, that's just my own observation on that.

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration UPDATE

Okay got a response- they supplied the bolt and thread pitch as per HS Precision's recommendation. It would appear HS has changed the thread pitch of their sling studs and Seekins is just coming across this issue. The assumption right now is that they went from 10-24 to 10-32 which is the size mcmillan uses. I will verify that in about an hour.

I would consider this to be fairly important information since if you strip out that threaded insert, repairing it will not be a simple task. Even a Helicoil would require some surgery to get installed.

 

[slivoman]

Re: Just venting some frustration UPDATE

Very good info. I am waiting for my 34mm 6/4 rings to get finished by Seekins and I also ordered the SRS system and both are supposed to ship soon. I wonder if I should call Seekins and have them include both sets of screws. I hope Glen sees this thread, maybe you should add Seekins to the title.

I got my 5R this year as well, I might just remove one of the sling studs and take it to the hardware store to see what the actual size is.

Please update with anymore info you get.

 

[fireEMT5]

Re: Just venting some frustration

Seekins is Good to go in my book. However, I feel your frustration. I ordered directly through them also in early Feb - a 2.5" SRS rail and a 20 MOA base for my new Savage. Same issue here - waiting on parts to come back from coating......yup, shit happens. Not their fault, but still frustrating.

My order finally shipped and arrived on Feb. 20th..... No biggie, I was out of town until the 27th anyway. Open my package to find the base which was correct, but instead of a 2.5" SRS rail, I was mistakenly sent a 2.0" SRS rail.......Damn!

A quick phone call and it was all straightened out, a mistake had been made, and I was sent the wrong part. The gentleman on the phone was very appologetic and sent the correct part out that day. Another week later and it's all good.

Given the chance, Seekins customer service really stepped up to the plate. They were also kind enough to say you can keep the 2.0 SRS rail or send it back - up to you. This really surprised the hell out of me (in a good way!!!).

As for the screws, my 2.5" rail came with 3/4" long fine and coarse screws - a very nice touch as the Savage stocks take fine threads. I understand that Seekins can't possibly know what the end user will try to use their products on, and in my case I did have to cut one of the screws off by about 3/32" to get the same length when put through the rail. A quick trip to the hardware store for a spare and a couple of nuts and I was in business. Just screwed on both nuts, put in vice, cut off with a cut off wheel, then unscrewed the nuts to clean up the threads at the cut.

Now both the scope base and SRS rail are bedded and installed - I'm a happy camper and will certainly buy more Seekins stuff in the furture.

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slivoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very good info. I am waiting for my 34mm 6/4 rings to get finished by Seekins and I also ordered the SRS system and both are supposed to ship soon. I wonder if I should call Seekins and have them include both sets of screws. I hope Glen sees this thread, maybe you should add Seekins to the title.

I got my 5R this year as well, I might just remove one of the sling studs and take it to the hardware store to see what the actual size is.

Please update with anymore info you get. </div></div>

Yeah given your 5R is new, I would highly advise checking the thread pitch of your studs. I'm sure a simple note with your order if you have the finer threads would be enough to get what you need.

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MP15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seekins is Good to go in my book. However, I feel your frustration. I ordered directly through them also in early Feb - a 2.5" SRS rail and a 20 MOA base for my new Savage. Same issue here - waiting on parts to come back from coating......yup, shit happens. Not their fault, but still frustrating.

My order finally shipped and arrived on Feb. 20th..... No biggie, I was out of town until the 27th anyway. Open my package to find the base which was correct, but instead of a 2.5" SRS rail, I was mistakenly sent a 2.0" SRS rail.......Damn!

A quick phone call and it was all straightened out, a mistake had been made, and I was sent the wrong part. The gentleman on the phone was very appologetic and sent the correct part out that day. Another week later and it's all good.

Given the chance, Seekins customer service really stepped up to the plate. They were also kind enough to say you can keep the 2.0 SRS rail or send it back - up to you. This really surprised the hell out of me (in a good way!!!).

As for the screws, my 2.5" rail came with 3/4" long fine and coarse screws - a very nice touch as the Savage stocks take fine threads. I understand that Seekins can't possibly know what the end user will try to use their products on, and in my case I did have to cut one of the screws off by about 3/32" to get the same length when put through the rail. A quick trip to the hardware store for a spare and a couple of nuts and I was in business. Just screwed on both nuts, put in vice, cut off with a cut off wheel, then unscrewed the nuts to clean up the threads at the cut.

Now both the scope base and SRS rail are bedded and installed - I'm a happy camper and will certainly buy more Seekins stuff in the furture. </div></div>

Oh I'll buy from them as well. I think my only complaint is that they didn't notify me when they figured out there was an error with the coating. I understand when you have the volume of parts and variety of parts, mix-ups with inventory happen. But it would be nice if you let everyone know who ordered those items that there is a delay once you figure it out.

This thread pitch issue is out of their control and isn't really anyone's fault. HS can't be expected to contact everyone who makes accessories for their stocks as third party venders and inform them of changes, and you can't expect Seekins to call once a week to make sure there have been no changes. It's just one of those things that happen and are not anyones fault.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Just venting some frustration

We just got off the phone with HS, they changed from coarse to fine thread somewhere around 4 years ago, but it also depends on what stock, what model and who the stock was made for so they have both...

They will now ship with both screws.

If we tried to contact everyone every time there was a small delay it would take 10 people on the phone for about 3 days. I think what we will do is start selling more thru dealers and eventually stop selling direct.

Nate, about the same time this was posted you also got a response from customer service about the issue. We arent perfect, but we try the best we can.

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We just got off the phone with HS, they changed from coarse to fine thread somewhere around 4 years ago, but it also depends on what stock, what model and who the stock was made for.

They will now ship with both screws.

If we tried to contact everyone every time there was a small delay it would take 10 people on the phone for about 3 days. I think what we will do is start selling more thru dealers and eventually stop selling direct.

Nate, about the same time this was posted you also got a response from customer service about the issue. We arent perfect, but we try the best we can. </div></div>


Thanks Glen. Please don't misunderstand this as straight up bitching. Just a little frustration with everything I order lately (and not just from you) not going right.

I understand the notification issue; figured if it were maybe a simple software adjustment to automatically send out emails. But I also understand that's not always an option- different software allows different uses.

I'm glad we were able to figure this out. Doesn't make sense that HS would use two different thread pitches depending on the stock- I would like to assume there is a logical reason behind it, but from the outside it sounds like a poor choice for efficiency and parts supply purposes.

Again, thanks for the support you give us mil guys; the industry across the board is very generous with this and it allows us to get into quality gear we may otherwise not be able to afford.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Just venting some frustration

Glen,

Don't stop selling direct

. Honestly, I prefer to buy straight from the source...it's easier on me as a consumer, I don't have to deal with finding a retailer and the retailers issues. These little things happen (mind you I used to be a machinist...I always check by hand first to see if a screw is going to fit and if it doesn't I use a thread gauge).

--Wintermute

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glen,

Don't stop selling direct

. Honestly, I prefer to buy straight from the source...it's easier on me as a consumer, I don't have to deal with finding a retailer and the retailers issues. These little things happen (mind you I used to be a machinist...I always check by hand first to see if a screw is going to fit and if it doesn't I use a thread gauge).

--Wintermute </div></div>

I like buying direct too but I can understand how it adds difficulty to running his business.

I do the same when starting hardware- in this case, having the long end of the allen wrench in the head since my big mits and fat fingers couldn't really grip the head (not enough clearance since they are recessed when fully tightened). I learned a long time ago that a few extra seconds being careful starting screws and bolts is a lot better than hours repairing stripped out threads.

 

[hamstur]

Re: Just venting some frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand the notification issue; figured if it were maybe a simple software adjustment to automatically send out emails. But I also understand that's not always an option- different software allows different uses.</div></div>
Unsure if you work in manufacturing or distribution, but auto updates everytime something changes that auto-cascade via EDI would be a holy grail for the industry...

FWIW, last few folks I know of who bought Accu-Shot rails for their rifles say those don't even come with screws.

 

[slivoman]

Re: Just venting some frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We just got off the phone with HS, they changed from coarse to fine thread somewhere around 4 years ago, but it also depends on what stock, what model and who the stock was made for so they have both...

They will now ship with both screws.

If we tried to contact everyone every time there was a small delay it would take 10 people on the phone for about 3 days. I think what we will do is start selling more thru dealers and eventually stop selling direct.

Nate, about the same time this was posted you also got a response from customer service about the issue. We arent perfect, but we try the best we can. </div></div>

Again Seekins's customer service goes above and beyond the norm. I cannot stress enough how I wish all companies did this. I will ALWAYS gladly pay more to any company that provides service above and beyond the norm.

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamstur</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand the notification issue; figured if it were maybe a simple software adjustment to automatically send out emails. But I also understand that's not always an option- different software allows different uses.</div></div>
Unsure if you work in manufacturing or distribution, but auto updates everytime something changes that auto-cascade via EDI would be a holy grail for the industry...

FWIW, last few folks I know of who bought Accu-Shot rails for their rifles say those don't even come with screws. </div></div>

Nope I'm not involved in either, so my assumptions of what a computer program this type of business may use and it's capabilities are base only on conjecture. Doesn't sound like it would be that difficult to build a program that would do this, but from what you said it would appear this isn't the case. I wonder why someone hasn't came up with a good solution like that? Or maybe it's out there but cost prohibative?

I figured some companies wouldnt provide hardware- seems you get all types of product packages. I deffinately like having hardware provided, when HS doesn't toss a wrench in the works, it's convenience in spades

 

[DP425]

Re: Just venting some frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slivoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will ALWAYS gladly pay more to any company that provides service above and beyond the norm. </div></div>

Same here, but that statement makes it sound like Seekins products are priced higher than an equal quality competitor and I would disagree with that. I feel they are some of the best price products for what you get. Sure the SRS is more than most rails, but most of those don't have the sling attachment integrated.

Of course I'm sure you didn't mean that Seekins is more expensive- just saying if anyone interprets it that way, I believe they are actually one of the most reasonable top quality companies in their feild

And as a final update- just as the email I got speculated- my stocks have the finer thread studs same as the McMillan stocks. I still don't get why you would use two different thread pitches in your line of stocks. Oh well

 

[slivoman]

Re: Just venting some frustration

Yeah, I didn't mean that Seekins's products are overpriced. I meant that if it came down to choosing company A or Company B and company A was cheaper but company B had better customer support, i would purchase from company B every time. It only takes one time to get screwed by a company to realize saving a few dollars ends up costing way more than you bargained for.

As far as a system to automatically send out emails for product delays, that's a part of some kind of data warehouse software and that software is not only very expensive, but requires paying a lot of money to a specialized team to up keep it. I don't know how big Glen's business is, but I bet its cost prohibitive for him at this time.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Just venting some frustration

It's been a while so I can't remember if I got the right screws on each, but I was running SRSes on two H-S stocks. The one on my LTR ('06 production) was coarse, the 5R ('10) was fine. It's more of an H-S thing to me. FWIW, I bought mine through Liberty Optics both times. Nothing against going to Seekins directly, but I figure let them concentrate on making things and let someone whose whole business is selling, order fulfillment and customer service do the rest.