KAC SR25 ECR/M110 or FNH Scar 20s?

[brennon272]

Alright guys,

Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be approximately $3500. If anyone wants to add their recommendation for something outside of here, it must be a battle proven platform so LMT, HK etc. Not sure what I am going to top it with in terms of glass, but looking at either S&B PMII, NF ATACR F1, TT, something along these lines. Additionally, it will be ran suppressed and with a NV clip on so hence the need for a lot of rail space.
Thanks guys!

 

[Bigjake83]

Alright guys,

Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be approximately $3500. If anyone wants to add their recommendation for something outside of here, it must be a battle proven platform so LMT, HK etc. Not sure what I am going to top it with in terms of glass, but looking at either S&B PMII, NF ATACR F1, TT, something along these lines. Additionally, it will be ran suppressed and with a NV clip on so hence the need for a lot of rail space.
Thanks guys!

Why does it have to be a battle proven rifle, are you taking it in to battle???

Anyway bottom line KAC is King when it comes to reliability and performance, and since you have so much money don't forget to get the new SR25 6.5 Creedmoor upper.

 

[brennon272]

I am also a collector, so it is nice to have something that at least resembles what is or has been used.

 

[deersniper]

Scar eats optics. I wouldn't put NV or thermal on one

 

[TheGerman]

 

[VegasHKShooter]

If you are asking for opinions, here’s mine: KAC all day, every day, and twice on Sunday.
I will offer some facts/opinions to back up my response.
The KAC is 100% proven. The guns out now are light years ahead of the older guns that guys had and hated. The whole system has been improved. The bolt is an engineering piece of genius. Outside of KAC and destructive testing, they just don’t break. When you look at a Carbine like the ACC, you have a cut rifled, 5R, chrome lined barrel that is good for over 20k rounds. You have a rifle that can seriously go that far too. The gas system is sealed, so it virtually can not leak. The rifle runs, without an adj gas block, suppressed or non, doesn’t matter. The trigger is better than any other battle rifle I’ve ever shot, and rivals a Geiselle. The gun is ambi, and the dolt carrier can be dropped without moving either hand from their firing position. The new rails are insanely strong, have little to no deflection, and are M-Lok. Like M-Lok or don’t, testing has shown it is significantly stronger than Key-Mod.
I have personally shot my ACC suppressed until the SureFire van was changing colors from heat.....the gun just kept on working.

The SCAR: while I do not own one, I’ve shot many of them, and there are several things I dislike. I dislike piston rifles. They have a different recoil impulse that I am not a fan of. I believe the piston is a solution to a non existent problem. I also do not like the reciprocating charging handle. Get your hand in the wrong place in the heat of a gun battle, and that handle will SLAM your fingers. Also, SCARS are notorious for breaking scopes. I am not an expert, but I have read it is due to the recoil impulse being different. Scopes are meant to handle recoil going back, and the SCAR has enough as the bolt slams forward, that it breaks some scopes.

In closing, I am biased, I own several KAC’s, and no SCAR’s. It would be silly to buy a gun I’m not a fan of.
I will say that MANY folks like them, so obviously my opinion is not shared by all. There are countless SME’s here and other places that speak highly of KAC though. I know I’m not in the minority there.
If you can, shoot both. As much and as hard as you can. That will tell you much more than opinions on the inter web. ?

 

[Dougie308]

I have no experience with the M110. However, I have a SCAR 17S with a Millett 1x6x24 and I can hit a torso sized target at 400 yards (no place to try it further near me) all day long. I have also found it to be both very reliable and rugged in adverse conditions (I.e. dust, dirt, rain, snow, and bouncing around the woods in the rifle rack in my Pinzgauer). So I would guess the Mk 20 would do just as well.

I primarily use 168 gr Amax. However, I have buddy that uses 175s and tells me he can take his out 600 yards plus.

Alright guys,

Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be approximately $3500. If anyone wants to add their recommendation for something outside of here, it must be a battle proven platform so LMT, HK etc. Not sure what I am going to top it with in terms of glass, but looking at either S&B PMII, NF ATACR F1, TT, something along these lines. Additionally, it will be ran suppressed and with a NV clip on so hence the need for a lot of rail space.
Thanks guys!

 

[cobra655]

Yes a SCAR 17 will break a scope in some instances. The SCAR 16 has not. I used to own a 17 and now a SCAR 20. The 20 is by far the smoother operating rifle of the two. I have not heard of any scope issues yet on the 20 and I doubt you will. My preference is the SCAR 20 over the Knights. I just dislike large bore AR's. This is just my opinion and you will get others that disagree. Not that the Knights is not a good weapon just that I love the way my SCAR 20 shoots for me.

 

[supertac7]

I'm curious if you're asking about buying an "actual" M110, or are merely looking to buy a new CC/PC and paint it tan.

My time behind the old model M110 is fairly limited, but after handling the new CC/PC, it seems that KAC has moved light-years beyond the old design. Not to mention that KAC has (in my experience) had some of the best customer service in the business.

I've spent a lot of time behind a SCAR 17, its a decent rifle, but I can never get over the fact that it feels like I'm shooting a rifle that is made out of a bunch of Legos stuck together with kindergarten glue. Its a reliable, relatively accurate, light, and soft shooting rifle; but the quality aspect always nags at me.

In short: buy KAC

 

[Strykervet]

I don't see why you need to spend $6k+ to get an SR25. Even with the 6.5C upper they aren't that much. I don't understand the whole "making it into an M110" as that's just cosmetics and I don't waste money on that.

I do think it would have been nice for them to offer the MAM's brake and the fixed stock as an option though. But the SOPMOD stock is a solid stock, even for a 20" rifle. The QDC can is one of the best "all around" cans made for several reasons. It's also an accurate one.

The only things I changed on my 20" was a Magpul MIAD grip, it's all I use already, I broke down and got a full stock w/adj. buttpad and Gunkote'd it black, and I've been considering a Geissele Hi-Speed adj. trigger but only because I have one I can swap out into a small frame KAC lower. I did swap out my flip sights for angled ones due to the night vision. What I won't be doing is ablating the lower and re-engraving "M110" and "Property US Army" on it. Or changing the handguard and gas block assy. or reverting to the longer, heavier can yet with identical performance as the new small one.

Stick to the new one if you want an SR25. If you want one of the older versions, call Small Arms Sales or KAC and be prepared to shell out big bucks. And likely for a used rifle. Be smart. Get a new SR25 and call it a day.

I love the SR25, I give zero fucks that it doesn't say "M110"; I was given that option but it wasn't worth the price (though the case and all would have been nice). But if by going with KAC means you have to spend an extra $2000 in order to make it "authentic" then I guess I'd say "fuck it" and get the Mk20 --as long as it doesn't require a bunch of shit changed on it too.

If I had it to do over, I'd get a 22" KAC 6.5C, a cleaning kit w/bolt kit, a fixed stock if you find you need one, and call it a day. It's basically what I did with the 7.62, Creedmore didn't come out until a month or two after I got mine, of course.

 

[Potss]

SCAR and AR10s aren't in the same league in terms of accuracy or recoil. KAC is the answer, but there are a lot of good options for AR10s including JP, Seekins, LMT, and just building/having one built.

 

[TAHK]

I love my SCAR 20, its really a sub moa gun

 

[Painterbolt]

Been a bolt gun shooter for awhile and got a scar 20 recently. You really have to do your part with fundamentals or it shows. Easily shoots a half moa now with 168 fgmm.

 

[Potss]

Post your 6x5, let's see this 1/2moa SCAR.....

 

[MK20]

Personal preference wins the day here. I have no time behind a 110 and a good bit behind a 20S equivalent. The 20 wont eat any decent optic. You can run PVS 30s on them fine. It is accurate with lots of rail space and is a current issue rifle that has performed well.
Both have a proven history. Choose which you like. For me, half the cost with the 20S vs the 110 buys a lot of ammo or scope.

Dont compare the accuracy of the 20S to a regular SCAR

 

[Painterbolt]

Well being this is the internet and I also think talks of group size is usually like fishing stories. Heres a 3 round group at 500. I dont have any pictures of groups at 100 saved. I have no experience behind a kac but I have no doubt it can shoot.

 

[Potss]

Yes, anyone can claim anything on the internet which is why when someone does claim a 1/2 moa whatever we ask for a statistically significant data set, which one three round group doesn't begin to approach.

I'm not saying a SCAR or SCAR20S isn't accurate. I am saying it isn't as accurate as a KAC with a Kreiger or a build with a Bartlein or a JP or a Seekins with a Rock Creek, etc. Whether or not someone can shoot the difference is another story, but in terms of mechanical accuracy the AR will always have a relatively significant edge due to both the design and available components.

Again not knocking the SCAR, but I just do not understand the attraction when there are now so many quality AR10s that will perform the same or better in every metric that matters. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Anyways, if you do get a chance to do some work at 100y do a 6x5 and post it up.

 

[Primus]

Yes, anyone can claim anything on the internet which is why when someone does claim a 1/2 moa whatever we ask for a statistically significant data set, which one three round group doesn't begin to approach.

I'm not saying a SCAR or SCAR20S isn't accurate. I am saying it isn't as accurate as a KAC with a Kreiger or a build with a Bartlein or a JP or a Seekins with a Rock Creek, etc. Whether or not someone can shoot the difference is another story, but in terms of mechanical accuracy the AR will always have a relatively significant edge due to both the design and available components.

Again not knocking the SCAR, but I just do not understand the attraction when there are now so many quality AR10s that will perform the same or better in every metric that matters. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Anyways, if you do get a chance to do some work at 100y do a 6x5 and post it up.

Except the ONLY KAC getting a Kreiger is the LPR, not a cut rifled SR25.

And yes, a SCAR20 is going to be in the same ballpark as an SR25 accuracy wise. It will do it with less recoil, more reliability and with a better mounting platform. The Con is the SCAR can and will eat shitty optics.

You can almost build an SR25, you can't build a SCAR20. BUT, you can get the SR25 in 6.5CM.

My recommendation would be to either get a SR25 in 6,5CM or buy a SCAR20 and have it rebarreled in 6.5. Its 2019, going with shitty ass .308 is retarded, especially in a $4K+ rifle.

 

[Potss]

Who does the SS SR25 barrels then? I'd imagine someone of equal quality to Krieger... Again, not that the SCAR 20 is a bad barrel, but I guarantee it isn't like a cut rifled blank from a top end match barrel maker.

I'd like to see any testing indicating that the SCAR20 is going to somehow be more reliable than the KAC E2s. I'd wager they'd be equal at best.

The SCAR will by design have more recoil, period. Inline DI (stoner gas system, whatever you want to call it) with the proper buffer vs. big heavy piston and it isn't even close. Assuming the same muzzle device that is.

Totally agreed on the 6.5CM comment in most cases.

 

[brennon272]

I ended up pulling the trigger on the KAC SR25. Should be here Monday!

 

[Primus]

Kac does their own barrels inhouse with the exception of the LPR. Last time I talked to jack/Kevin they were eventually planning to bring that in house as well.

 

[Primus]

Who does the SS SR25 barrels then? I'd imagine someone of equal quality to Krieger... Again, not that the SCAR 20 is a bad barrel, but I guarantee it isn't like a cut rifled blank from a top end match barrel maker.

I'd like to see any testing indicating that the SCAR20 is going to somehow be more reliable than the KAC E2s. I'd wager they'd be equal at best.

The SCAR will by design have more recoil, period. Inline DI (stoner gas system, whatever you want to call it) with the proper buffer vs. big heavy piston and it isn't even close. Assuming the same muzzle device that is.

Totally agreed on the 6.5CM comment in most cases.

I own both. There is not a softer shooting .308 than a S17. And it's not really that close. You may be able to get close with an adjustable gas block but KAC rifles are built to run first and everything else second.

This is where we learn who actually owns and shoots these guns and who pretends.

The sr25 by nature of it's design will never shoot as soft as a 17. It shoots soft for a large frame with a non adjustable gb, but it's in a different league. Their gas systems are tuned down to run smoother on mil spec ammo, which is why some get short strokes running cheap weak steel case and commercial ammo. Mine ran fine on wolf steel but after 2 case head separation, I only run quality brass through it now.

There is nothing on the planet that comes close to a 17 when you factor In all the features and attributes.

 

[Potss]

I'll fully admit I don't own both, but I've used both (the SR25 more extensively) and to me the experience has been the opposite. Same goes for everyone running competitions in basically any division. If the SCAR had less recoil, you'd see them everywhere. You don't, and that is because they have more. Especially compared to a rifle with an AGB. It is physics, port location, recoiling weight, travel, unlock speed.

 

[Primus]

That's not how any of this works but let's agree to disagree. I don't have the time or inclination to discect your post.

 

[RyanScott]

Peak recoil force in a SCAR as measured by an accelerometer is 4x that of an SR25 and it’s going forward. Boom, dead optics. Felt recoil will be less though, because it’s very brief and otherwise a lighter recoiling system.

 

[flyer]

View attachment 7069124

Can anyone with an SR25 comment on what the magazine catch looks like?

I thought I had a line on ambi Sig 716 magazine catches to use in my LR308s but the part is "no longer available" and cancelled.

I'm not liking the AR15 style catches from my Aero LPKs and I'm not sure where to find an AR10A or equivalent style magazine catch with the longer stud and possibly thicker pad.

Sorry for the hijack, I just don't want to order "AR10" magazine catches only to find that they are actually AR15.

 

[The DFC]

Who does the SS SR25 barrels then? I'd imagine someone of equal quality to Krieger... Again, not that the SCAR 20 is a bad barrel, but I guarantee it isn't like a cut rifled blank from a top end match barrel maker.

I'd like to see any testing indicating that the SCAR20 is going to somehow be more reliable than the KAC E2s. I'd wager they'd be equal at best.

The SCAR will by design have more recoil, period. Inline DI (stoner gas system, whatever you want to call it) with the proper buffer vs. big heavy piston and it isn't even close. Assuming the same muzzle device that is.

Totally agreed on the 6.5CM comment in most cases.

They use Kriegers in sr15 SS rigs. The barrel will have "KBC" scribed on the barrel near the nut on the bottom. I've never seen an SR25 in person though.

edit-I think it's "KBI" on the barrel. I'm not at home and can't look.

 

[Shootingblanks]

I love my SCAR 20S.

My next purchase will be either a KAC SR25 or a CheyTac M200 408.

 

[longshot2000]

Scar 20s is better than 17s for longer shots, and is better on optics. SR25 = never go wrong. Also, LMT makes a great .308 platform, and their construction is every bit as good as Knights, and the two manufacture for each other from time to time. Many LMT parts are interchangable with Knights...

 

[MK20]

@Potss , have you ever shot a SCAR, let alone a MK20?

They recoil lightly and are dead nuts reliable. The only thing that makes them malf regularly is if you shoot it from the hip while holding it VERY loosely. Think of limp wristing a pistol. Same thing.

 

[shane45]

I have a SCAR17 with G trigger and MREX rail. I have an SR25 EMC. I feel like my EMC recoils less fwiw.

 

[TangoSierra916]

@brennon272

Op- which rifle did you go with?

 

[CageFighter]

im bias & a SCAR whore. 2x 16, 17 & 20.

 

[TangoSierra916]

im bias & a SCAR whore. 2x 16, 17 & 20.

That’s awesome, how do you like the 20? What kind of accuracy you seeing?

 

[HillBilly n TX]

Recently purchased the KAC SR25 APC and found the 16” barrel wasn’t for me (personally though it was way to much blast). Will end up going the APR route with a CSR suppressor or definitely the 6.5 variant if Knights sells a full rifle.

 

[CageFighter]

That’s awesome, how do you like the 20? What kind of accuracy you seeing?

20S still @ FFL, havent picked it up yet.

 

[cobra655]

That’s awesome, how do you like the 20? What kind of accuracy you seeing?

I get around 5/8" out of mine. It surprised me on the accuracy. I actually use mine for PRS right now.

 

[TangoSierra916]

I get around 5/8" out of mine. It surprised me on the accuracy. I actually use mine for PRS right now.

Dang that’s awesome, how does it do in the prs role?

What optic you running with the scar? Any pics?

 

[CageFighter]

I actually use mine for PRS right now.

what optic are u using? this was gonna be my route until i get a bolt gun.

 

[physhphude]

Lots of misinformation here. I own both and have shot both extensively for competition. Maybe I can help.

1. Accuracy: The SCAR 20s is more accurate. No question about it. I have shot 2 20s's and 3 Mk11's, 2 ECR/m110's and an EMC. The 20s's consistently out perform the SR-25's.
How accurate are they? With 5 shot groups and factory ammo in each: The SR25's will average sub MOA. They will throw some groups larger and many groups smaller. The SCAR 20's will average 3/4 moa. Once in awhile will throw a group larger than MOA.
Winner: SCAR

2. Long range performance: Both will hit out to 1000. The limitation is 175 FGMM is not consistent enough to hold a tight group. Hand loads: the Scar hovers around 1 moa at 1000, the SR25 1.25-1.5 moa. I have not been able to get the SR25's to shoot as tight with hand loads. The SR25's wont seem to group with any of the low drag bullets ( have tried 175 RDF, 178 ELD, 168 berger hybrids etc), so i'm stuck with 175 SMK's. The SR25 has a long throat. The SCAR has a very short throat which I think leads to it's excellent accuracy. I worked up a load with 178gr ELD's for the scar that shoots lights out. Downside to the SCAR? 1:12 twist causes the BC to become very poor at long range. While the 1:12 stabilizes enough to group well, the wobble increases the profile of the bullet progressively reducing BC as it slows down. Meaning the ballistic calculators are not accurate for the SCAR. Neither of them are great past 800 due to poor ballistic performance. SR25 not being able to group well with low drag bullets, and SCAR twist rate too slow to maintain good stability causing BC to drop.
Winner: TIE

3. Recoil: This depends a lot on configuration weight, muzzle device, and internals. Which one recoils less? The SCAR. By a small with flash hiders and a large margin with suppressor. The SCAR in stock configuration has an unpleasant recoil "Slap" because the aluminum stock transmits the force compared to the 17's polymer stock but is very soft otherwise. Putting a softer buffer completely removes this. MOTOtech makes one or I cut a piece of sorbothane and added it to the stock buffer. The SR25's are smooth shooting for sure. No jump, no slap. They just kick harder.
Winner: SCAR

4. Running suppressed: KAC's are notorious for running reliability. In my experience a KAC with KAC or surefire suppressor will run suppressed or unsuppressed 100%. I have spent a lot of time on my ER with Mk11 suppressor. This combo is very nice shooting. Smooth recoil impulse. Zero shift is minimal. Suppressor is repeatable. some thermal shifting after 15-20 rounds. Over time (2000 rounds) as the mount interface loosened up, the accuracy opened up as well. Replacing the barrel with a matched suppressor returned the accuracy to sub moa. Overall a dated system that works very well when in spec. Fouls the action very fast. After about 250 rounds, the action gets sluggish.

SCAR: I ran a FA762SS suppressor on it. Which is nearly identical except for mount to the 762SV suppressor (waiting on tax stamp). Initial performance was outstanding. I could not believe the accuracy I was getting out of a gas gun with chrome lined barrel. .75 moa out to 700, and 1 moa at 1000. No thermal shifting even after several mags. Even setting on suppressed mode with a low back pressure suppressor, the bolt speed was increased. After about 1000 rounds, the suppressor to mount interface was not as secure. Carbon buildup would cause inconsistent mounting, and my 1st gen FA762SS has coarse teeth not allowing me to lock down the suppressor resulting in thermal shifting. I have not been able to remedy the issue. The 762SV suppressor or a gen II FA762SS suppressor restores the accuracy, but my gen 1 FA762SS has dramatic thermal shifting now. Zero shift with and without can is significant (2-4moa) due to the flimsy receiver.

5. Magazines: SCAR mags suck. SR25 mags are ok.

6. Long term function/reliability/other thoughts: I have 1000 rounds through the SCAR and 2500 through the SR25. The SCAR's construction leaves a bit to be desired. The receiver is flimsy there is significant flex though this does not seem to affect the accuracy. There are a lot of screws that hold the SCAR together. They are constantly coming loose. I have to check every 200 rounds or so. I have blue loctite on all of them. That said the SCAR runs clean and doesn't foul up much at all.

Neither platform is perfect but both of them run well for what they were designed to do. The SCAR seems to edge out the SR25 performance wise, but it has some of its own flaws. I think you would be happy with either one.

 

[HillBilly n TX]

View attachment 7099969View attachment 7099970View attachment 7099971Lots of misinformation here. I own both and have shot both extensively for competition. Maybe I can help.

1. Accuracy: The SCAR 20s is more accurate. No question about it. I have shot 2 20s's and 3 Mk11's, 2 ECR/m110's and an EMC. The 20s's consistently out perform the SR-25's.
How accurate are they? With 5 shot groups and factory ammo in each: The SR25's will average sub MOA. They will throw some groups larger and many groups smaller. The SCAR 20's will average 3/4 moa. Once in awhile will throw a group larger than MOA.
Winner: SCAR

2. Long range performance: Both will hit out to 1000. The limitation is 175 FGMM is not consistent enough to hold a tight group. Hand loads: the Scar hovers around 1 moa at 1000, the SR25 1.25-1.5 moa. I have not been able to get the SR25's to shoot as tight with hand loads. The SR25's wont seem to group with any of the low drag bullets ( have tried 175 RDF, 178 ELD, 168 berger hybrids etc), so i'm stuck with 175 SMK's. The SR25 has a long throat. The SCAR has a very short throat which I think leads to it's excellent accuracy. I worked up a load with 178gr ELD's for the scar that shoots lights out. Downside to the SCAR? 1:12 twist causes the BC to become very poor at long range. While the 1:12 stabilizes enough to group well, the wobble increases the profile of the bullet progressively reducing BC as it slows down. Meaning the ballistic calculators are not accurate for the SCAR. Neither of them are great past 800 due to poor ballistic performance. SR25 not being able to group well with low drag bullets, and SCAR twist rate too slow to maintain good stability causing BC to drop.
Winner: TIE

3. Recoil: This depends a lot on configuration weight, muzzle device, and internals. Which one recoils less? The SCAR. By a small with flash hiders and a large margin with suppressor. The SCAR in stock configuration has an unpleasant recoil "Slap" because the aluminum stock transmits the force compared to the 17's polymer stock but is very soft otherwise. Putting a softer buffer completely removes this. MOTOtech makes one or I cut a piece of sorbothane and added it to the stock buffer. The SR25's are smooth shooting for sure. No jump, no slap. They just kick harder.
Winner: SCAR

4. Running suppressed: KAC's are notorious for running reliability. In my experience a KAC with KAC or surefire suppressor will run suppressed or unsuppressed 100%. I have spent a lot of time on my ER with Mk11 suppressor. This combo is very nice shooting. Smooth recoil impulse. Zero shift is minimal. Suppressor is repeatable. some thermal shifting after 15-20 rounds. Over time (2000 rounds) as the mount interface loosened up, the accuracy opened up as well. Replacing the barrel with a matched suppressor returned the accuracy to sub moa. Overall a dated system that works very well when in spec. Fouls the action very fast. After about 250 rounds, the action gets sluggish.

SCAR: I ran a FA762SS suppressor on it. Which is nearly identical except for mount to the 762SV suppressor (waiting on tax stamp). Initial performance was outstanding. I could not believe the accuracy I was getting out of a gas gun with chrome lined barrel. .75 moa out to 700, and 1 moa at 1000. No thermal shifting even after several mags. Even setting on suppressed mode with a low back pressure suppressor, the bolt speed was increased. After about 1000 rounds, the suppressor to mount interface was not as secure. Carbon buildup would cause inconsistent mounting, and my 1st gen FA762SS has coarse teeth not allowing me to lock down the suppressor resulting in thermal shifting. I have not been able to remedy the issue. The 762SV suppressor or a gen II FA762SS suppressor restores the accuracy, but my gen 1 FA762SS has dramatic thermal shifting now. Zero shift with and without can is significant (2-4moa) due to the flimsy receiver.

5. Magazines: SCAR mags suck. SR25 mags are ok.

6. Long term function/reliability/other thoughts: I have 1000 rounds through the SCAR and 2500 through the SR25. The SCAR's construction leaves a bit to be desired. The receiver is flimsy there is significant flex though this does not seem to affect the accuracy. There are a lot of screws that hold the SCAR together. They are constantly coming loose. I have to check every 200 rounds or so. I have blue loctite on all of them. That said the SCAR runs clean and doesn't foul up much at all.

Neither platform is perfect but both of them run well for what they were designed to do. The SCAR seems to edge out the SR25 performance wise, but it has some of its own flaws. I think you would be happy with either one.

Excellent write up, thank you for sharing. Have always been interested in the SCAR 20, but ended up going in KAC APC route (currently switching to the APR).

 

[R.O.U.S.]

Replacing the barrel with a matched suppressor returned the accuracy to sub moa. Overall a dated system that works very well when in spec. Fouls the action very fast. After about 250 rounds, the action gets sluggish.

This is an excellent write up. I was curious about this part. Could you elaborate about replacing the barrel and matched suppressor? Did you replace the barrel with a factory barrel. Was the suppressor new, or just cleaned/refurbished?

 

[BEJ762]

What I would like to know is where did you find a Surefire muzzle brake that fits a HK MR762 like the one in your picture?!?!

 

[theLBC]

In case it helps, that looks like a SUREFIRE – MB762SSAL/RE Muzzle Brake/Adapter

I have one on my Scar 20S as the stock flash hider is illegal where I live (unless I register it as an assault rifle).
Most large retailers show this as discontinued, and I have only seen them sold on sites like ebay or firearms related exchanges.

 

[BEJ762]

Thank you but the HK comes in a 15x1 thread pitch which I am not aware those muzzle devices came in. Interested in the details.

 

[physhphude]

ROUS: I spoke to knights about the fall off in accuracy. They tested the rifle and determined that the suppressor and barrel were not a good match and offered to either replace the barrel until a barrel matched my existing suppressor or replace the barrel and match a suppressor to it. I chose to replace the barrel and suppressor since I had a mk11 barrel and I desired an m110 barrel. I don’t have much dealings with other manufacturers but I have been thrilled with the service from knights. They really went out of their way to give me what I was looking for (consistently sub moa rifle with an antiquated suppressor system)

BEJ762: I used a 15x1 to 5/8ths thread adapter. In fact you can have mine if you would like. It is a bit chewed up but functional from removal however.
I currently am running a new generation OSS suppressor and am very impressed with it.
I am a big fan of the HK. It is the softest shooting of the 3 rifles as well as the most accurate by a decent margin. Shooting the SR25 and the Hk MR762 side by side it is really dramatic how much less the HK recoils. Feels like shooting a 5.56. The HK is a laser to 900 yards. Shooting close to half moa to 900. It runs out of steam and becomes trans sonic before 1000 however. I have not worked up hand loads for the HK yet since factory shoots so well. But I feel that the fliers are due to velocity variations in the ammo so the groups could be even smaller. I will run the LabRadar next time to verify.

 

[CageFighter]

@physhphude =nice write up & shooting!

 

[BEJ762]

@physhphude - Thank you for the explanation of how you overcame the thread pitch and the offer. I appreciate it. I absolutely love the MR762, agree with your evaluation and share in your performance experience. Really is a great platform. Also, thank you for the very detailed reviews you have provided.

OP - Sorry to have derailed your thread. Back on track now.

 

[Primus]

Now if FN would sell a mk20 in 6.5cm with a 7.7 twist we would be cooking with gasoline.

 

[Dougie308]

Very good write up!

View attachment 7099969View attachment 7099970View attachment 7099971Lots of misinformation here. I own both and have shot both extensively for competition. Maybe I can help.

1. Accuracy: The SCAR 20s is more accurate. No question about it. I have shot 2 20s's and 3 Mk11's, 2 ECR/m110's and an EMC. The 20s's consistently out perform the SR-25's.
How accurate are they? With 5 shot groups and factory ammo in each: The SR25's will average sub MOA. They will throw some groups larger and many groups smaller. The SCAR 20's will average 3/4 moa. Once in awhile will throw a group larger than MOA.
Winner: SCAR

2. Long range performance: Both will hit out to 1000. The limitation is 175 FGMM is not consistent enough to hold a tight group. Hand loads: the Scar hovers around 1 moa at 1000, the SR25 1.25-1.5 moa. I have not been able to get the SR25's to shoot as tight with hand loads. The SR25's wont seem to group with any of the low drag bullets ( have tried 175 RDF, 178 ELD, 168 berger hybrids etc), so i'm stuck with 175 SMK's. The SR25 has a long throat. The SCAR has a very short throat which I think leads to it's excellent accuracy. I worked up a load with 178gr ELD's for the scar that shoots lights out. Downside to the SCAR? 1:12 twist causes the BC to become very poor at long range. While the 1:12 stabilizes enough to group well, the wobble increases the profile of the bullet progressively reducing BC as it slows down. Meaning the ballistic calculators are not accurate for the SCAR. Neither of them are great past 800 due to poor ballistic performance. SR25 not being able to group well with low drag bullets, and SCAR twist rate too slow to maintain good stability causing BC to drop.
Winner: TIE

3. Recoil: This depends a lot on configuration weight, muzzle device, and internals. Which one recoils less? The SCAR. By a small with flash hiders and a large margin with suppressor. The SCAR in stock configuration has an unpleasant recoil "Slap" because the aluminum stock transmits the force compared to the 17's polymer stock but is very soft otherwise. Putting a softer buffer completely removes this. MOTOtech makes one or I cut a piece of sorbothane and added it to the stock buffer. The SR25's are smooth shooting for sure. No jump, no slap. They just kick harder.
Winner: SCAR

4. Running suppressed: KAC's are notorious for running reliability. In my experience a KAC with KAC or surefire suppressor will run suppressed or unsuppressed 100%. I have spent a lot of time on my ER with Mk11 suppressor. This combo is very nice shooting. Smooth recoil impulse. Zero shift is minimal. Suppressor is repeatable. some thermal shifting after 15-20 rounds. Over time (2000 rounds) as the mount interface loosened up, the accuracy opened up as well. Replacing the barrel with a matched suppressor returned the accuracy to sub moa. Overall a dated system that works very well when in spec. Fouls the action very fast. After about 250 rounds, the action gets sluggish.

SCAR: I ran a FA762SS suppressor on it. Which is nearly identical except for mount to the 762SV suppressor (waiting on tax stamp). Initial performance was outstanding. I could not believe the accuracy I was getting out of a gas gun with chrome lined barrel. .75 moa out to 700, and 1 moa at 1000. No thermal shifting even after several mags. Even setting on suppressed mode with a low back pressure suppressor, the bolt speed was increased. After about 1000 rounds, the suppressor to mount interface was not as secure. Carbon buildup would cause inconsistent mounting, and my 1st gen FA762SS has coarse teeth not allowing me to lock down the suppressor resulting in thermal shifting. I have not been able to remedy the issue. The 762SV suppressor or a gen II FA762SS suppressor restores the accuracy, but my gen 1 FA762SS has dramatic thermal shifting now. Zero shift with and without can is significant (2-4moa) due to the flimsy receiver.

5. Magazines: SCAR mags suck. SR25 mags are ok.

6. Long term function/reliability/other thoughts: I have 1000 rounds through the SCAR and 2500 through the SR25. The SCAR's construction leaves a bit to be desired. The receiver is flimsy there is significant flex though this does not seem to affect the accuracy. There are a lot of screws that hold the SCAR together. They are constantly coming loose. I have to check every 200 rounds or so. I have blue loctite on all of them. That said the SCAR runs clean and doesn't foul up much at all.

Neither platform is perfect but both of them run well for what they were designed to do. The SCAR seems to edge out the SR25 performance wise, but it has some of its own flaws. I think you would be happy with either one.